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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Duskadantor	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:23:00 - [2761] Hiya folks! Just back from a month long afk skill train. I count myself lucky that the skill was completed before the 15th of October. "Phew!" I'm none too happy with how people have become so upset over this news. It's players that make eve the game it is, and so this thread causes me some worry for the future of eve and its players. If so many people, can feel so strongly for such a change to eve, days before it's implemented, then what the hoola will the mood be like when its in full affect and folk are returning to their accounts. skill training = fail 'courtesy of new CCP game improvements' If your an unlucky soul to stumble upon this, just try to remember... It's not the end of the world. We still have each other and ice cream! Whistles a tune 'Always Look on the Bright Side of Life'
Mjolnirsmith	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:24:00 - [2762] I agree with what many people have posted above- the fact that a 90+ page thread is buried as a link within another 50 page thread is downright scandalous. CCP is giving lip service to open discussion, but really relegating it to a far hidden corner of the forums.
CIA1	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:25:00 - [2763] Come on you can't all be working for C.C.P., ...Oh s**T you do... Run away, run away.
Salt Dober	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:27:00 - [2764] Good thing they gave us plenty of warning for this upcoming change...real user friendly...
Kyusoath Orillian Council Of Internal war	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:27:00 - [2765] this is bad, , can't believe they are doing this. then the other blog about certs. what are you doing with the money CCP ? cos i do not see it going to make the game better. when i started this game , i had such high hopes, i thought CCP were a good company. this change is the final straw, i may come back , i'll read about whats happening but i can't stick around hoping you'll make the game better and all the time doing things like this and the pointless certificates crap. massive wastes of resources i really think you have started to take the playerbase for granted now. for those that played and SWG, i recently went back after leaving in 2005, and i must say, its a lot better. they really did a good job recovering from the CU/NGE hell. never thought i'd have more faith in SOE than CCP. i beg you CCP, give us something new fix the bugs and imbalanced mechanics, stop wasting time doing this, stop f*cking about with Certs, update promises that never happen(AF's/Need for speed ?/wild and crazy speed changes/economy insanity/GTC rip offs/half done un-needed GFX update/WIS waste of time that will come out just after Duke nukem forever) -2 accounts
Undeadas2 LDK Kraftwerk.	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:28:00 - [2766] Edited by: Undeadas2 on 14/10/2008 22:30:27 CCP just shooting itself to the foot... another sad day.
Duskadantor	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:32:00 - [2767] Originally by: Mjolnirsmith I agree with what many people have posted above- the fact that a 90+ page thread is buried as a link within another 50 page thread is downright scandalous. CCP is giving lip service to open discussion, but really relegating it to a far hidden corner of the forums. Urm I found this thread by following the orange/yellow text from EVE Homepage: Headline News > Ghost Training > Dev Blog > Comments
ISIAM	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:32:00 - [2768] Okey, so I've been here all day and listened to most of all sides of this argument, What I want to know now is; Those of us that are obviously against this and/or how it was handled. What constructive thing are we going to do ? ; And do you think there is any chance we will be heard? Yours still sadly, "ISIAM"
Essyl Moss Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:32:00 - [2769] I am playing multiple games, and was a player willing to pay every other month to maintain training on the chance I wish to return. The cost to do this has just increased 100%. Regardless of what is being discussed, whom ever agrees to a 100% price hike?
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:33:00 - [2770] Originally by: Ayrion Centare I never got into any other MMOs because I have a life and I simply can't dedicate the time necessary to grind up a powerful end-game character. If you think you need to spend a lot of time playing Eve to get a powerful end game character you are woefully mistaken. There is no amount of time you can play Eve that will get you to end game content any faster. None, nada, zilch. Originally by: Ayrion Centare The outright lie that ghost training was an unintended bug instead of a feature clearly written in your own player manual is so rude and disrespectful it's insulting. Yes, because you are the one rare new player who read the entire manual and said to yourself, "I can deactivate my playing account and get ahead! Woohoo!!" Yeah, suuuuuuure. And these are the people questioning CCP's credibility in this thread?!? Ha, ha, and triple ha. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
ISIAM	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:34:00 - [2771] Originally by: Essyl Moss I am playing multiple games, and was a player willing to pay every other month to maintain training on the chance I wish to return. The cost to do this has just increased 100%. Regardless of what is being discussed, whom ever agrees to a 100% price hike? Indeed (..)
Soras Evadon	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:34:00 - [2772] ffs, cant you peeps ever fix something in need of fixing once, like make HICs require interdictors skill to use or resize caldari BS so they arent the size of cruisers? I remember seeing this advertised as a feature before and now its a "bug". Also, you say its to balance it, so what happens to all the people who¦ve made use of it up till now? Not to mention we have to have a active account to change skills anyways. This is not going to balance the present situation at all, please, put your hearts back into the game and not into filling your pockets.
StealthGerbils	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:36:00 - [2773] I say we all go in jita and shoot each other in noob ships till they decide to not go through with this change.
Julius Rigel House Rigel	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:36:00 - [2774] Originally by: ISIAM Okey, so I've been here all day and listened to most of all sides of this argument, What I want to know now is; Those of us that are obviously against this and/or how it was handled. What constructive thing are we going to do ? ; And do you think there is any chance we will be heard? Yours still sadly, "ISIAM" Whatever you do, don't stop posting, this thread is so much fun to read. Frigate racing is fast and fun!
Bistot Kid The First Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:37:00 - [2775] LOL. All this posturing and flexing and no-one will really leave. Well, not with this as the sole reason. Why? Because those who care about this change, care too much about Eve. -------------------- What? Me Worry? --------------------
Erimisha Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:38:00 - [2776] Originally by: Bistot Kid Originally by: Zinnn bistot kid, I"m not using that feature and I"m still upset. Your logic is flawed. On the off chance you see this in amongst a million pages ... Why? Why do you care? I've used the feature for two weeks once, and I barely care. It was a bonus we once had and now we don't any more. We'll get over it. This is exactly like the last fiasco (free T2 BPOs for a certain alliance). At first people get unhappy at the news that it happened (both the T2 BPOs and the Ghost Training nerf). Then people get REALLY mad at CCP's constant lying/changing reasons. Then people start to get enraged by CCP's complete lack of dealing with their upset customers. It is a progression of events. Honestly I really don't care about the ghost training nerf. I've used it a few times, to be honest. However, I do NOT like being yanked around by devs. Unbalancing effect, no now it is a database issue, no, suddenly it is a 5 year old bug. A 'bug'? That is the best reason they could give? A bug they fixed on the Chinese server something like a year ago but couldn't fix here until now? As always CCP's stance on the matter is hail-mary post deletions and cover ups. Don't believe me? Check out Eve-search and ask yourself why some of those posts were deleted..(Yes, some were over the top but not a good number of them)
Zinnn	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:40:00 - [2777] Originally by: ISIAM Okey, so I've been here all day and listened to most of all sides of this argument, What I want to know now is; Those of us that are obviously against this and/or how it was handled. What constructive thing are we going to do ? ; And do you think there is any chance we will be heard? Yours still sadly, "ISIAM" as I said. Add features like only subscription skill queuing, adding ships like the orca. Add features, plain and simple. Give the people what they want for more end-game scenario's.. maybe figure out more learning skills or something as well, like a t3 learning skill set or something. Solves the issue... people use more ships, more ships get blown up, mining prices increase, mining becomes more lucrative. On another note, where did catherine go? .... Come out to play catherine... I miss our discussions and pwning your logic.
fuze Gallente Chosen Path Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:40:00 - [2778] Did CCP recruit some guys who worked for SOE? In Soviet Russia the ball drops you.
Lag	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:42:00 - [2779] Originally by: Bistot Kid LOL. All this posturing and flexing and no-one will really leave. Well, not with this as the sole reason. Why? Because those who care about this change, care too much about Eve. I care about this change, and I will leave Eve (already cancelled with 3 days left) permanently if they go through with it, as will many others. Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning is a really fun game...
Zinnn	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:42:00 - [2780] Originally by: Bistot Kid Originally by: Zinnn bistot kid, I"m not using that feature and I"m still upset. Your logic is flawed. On the off chance you see this in amongst a million pages ... Why? Why do you care? I've used the feature for two weeks once, and I barely care. It was a bonus we once had and now we don't any more. We'll get over it. I want to keep my options open. I've seen a lot of people do the same thing - get bored, or go to war, had to move, take a vacation, etc and then come back once they've had a break from eve. Breaks from eve work because the incentive is there to come back to eve. Remove the incentive and the chances of people coming back is smaller. I don't want to be one of those people that get bored and then get fed up with the monotony of skill training.... I'd get more isk before I can fly the stuff that I"m training for. That's a first for eve - you have the cash, just not the skills. I don't think that's right and I can see that happening to me.
Skogen Gump Jericho Fraction	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:42:00 - [2781] I asked this before, but it got lost in the drama: CCP said that they need to affect this change to help DB issues, fair enough - I'll concede that they have stable finances as they've said as much this week, being that their income is in euros and dollars (as long as their bank is too...), so let's think of an alternative that will reduce some DB pressure and improve financial situations for CCP by mandating a provision for ghost training (never a bad thing!) So, considering the outcry, Will CCP consider a tradeoff ? Let Ghost Training happen for accounts that are attached to an account that has an active subscription ? So if I play my main character and want to let 2 alts lapse and learn Battleship 5 for instance, as I'm paying for my main and those 2 other characters are on the same credit card - could they be left alone to train ? I know it's not ideal for CCP, but as they're being trained they will be used, and if they're being trained they must have been paid for to set the skill going, they will be paid for again to get the next skills progressing or to be actually used ... (even if you stipulate that such characters cannot be transfered, to stop character farmers) Is this such a bad compromise - CCP gets some Win, the players who Ghost for good reasons get what they want too.
Catherine Frasier	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:43:00 - [2782] Originally by: Zinnn Perhaps you didn't read that the china server already got that fix a while back and CCP said it would not be implemented in Tranquility As has been pointed out before, repeatedly, the statement was made that the change only affected Serenity at that time. It was never stated (nor was it even hinted) that it would never be changed on TQ. (In fact, if you ask me, that should have been a very clear sign that CCP was not exactly thrilled with ghost training.)
Stormwind Bloodfeather Minmatar Sogdian Traders Inc	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:43:00 - [2783] from make_db_files import loadDbase, storeDbase db = loadDbase() db ['charactername']['accountstatus'] =1 (active) db ['charactername']['accountstatus'] =0 (inactive) db ['skilltraining']['accountname'] = 'charactername accountname' db ['skilltraining']['accountstatus'] =1 skilltrain =0 skillpause storeDbase (db) Hard to have implemented in Python? no. Should have been done a long time ago due to it's ease? yes. my example code above isn't clean, i'm not great at Python. But it's not hard to implement. Stormwind In EVE, your only friend is your ship and it's weapons. All others are the enemy!
Bistot Kid The First Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:44:00 - [2784] Originally by: Erimisha As always CCP's stance on the matter is hail-mary post deletions and cover ups. Don't believe me? Check out Eve-search and ask yourself why some of those posts were deleted..(Yes, some were over the top but not a good number of them) Fair enough. I wish they'd be more upfront about it and just say the patently obvious "We're a business. We want to make more money." The Dev blog about this training putting a measurable load on the servers is pretty laughable TBH. ... but we'll still get over it. -------------------- What? Me Worry? --------------------
Shard Merchant Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:44:00 - [2785] Originally by: Mjolnirsmith I agree with what many people have posted above- the fact that a 90+ page thread is buried as a link within another 50 page thread is downright scandalous. CCP is giving lip service to open discussion, but really relegating it to a far hidden corner of the forums. Couldn't resist. _______________________________________________ CCP CENSORSHIP ALERT: CAN YOU SPOT IT?
Sky Marshal State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:45:00 - [2786] Edited by: Sky Marshal on 14/10/2008 23:01:32 Get a skill while the account is inactive, is fair. We speak about Eve Online, the only game in the world who use a time-based system to get skills/experience, so the casual/veteran skill separation is pretty big and can be an important factor for some players. Of course, many will tell me that is not a problem etc, that the beginner can kill a veteran...... I don't trust this as skills give a good advantage to the veteran, this is a fact. The skill system is unfair by nature as it is not work-based, but this is also better as we don't have to play 23/7 each day to have a better character, but we have to wait months and specialize to try to be efficient... So the Ghost Training let a small equality between paid and unpaid account as this feature help to limit a few the distance between casuals and hardcore games, and reduce the frustration of the player when he would come back of his break. Remember that this "advantage" has only 40 days maximum, depending of the skill and your implants. I personaly lose two or three months of training time by some breaks because I didn't return in EvE just when the skills were finished, but I was still happy to be able to use a new ship or new capabilities when I returned, as I hate long skills (the ratio "time used/advantage at end" is difficult to accept sometimes). Also, inactive accounts don't permit to change skills and don't give the amount of ISK required to buy the new toy who give the skill just learned (Well, this last point is not true all the time). But yes, maybe some players use this feature too much for character training, but this is positive for CCP. A player who paid 2 accounts full time and 1 partially still give more money than only two accounts full time... If some players who post in this topic act really and reduce their number of accounts they used, CCP will have less money, same if the total accounts number remains the same (we can't erase an account). A limitation of the time offered by the Ghost Training would be a good compromise. 15/20 days ? This don't help to finish long skill as there are mostly nearly 25 days, but this still give a good motivation after a break and make people who use the actual system pay more earlier, but with less frustration than a simple deletion. What it is REALLY unfair, is so that unpaid accounts can generate ISK by R&D agents and sell orders market. Retire this would help to limit inflation and some market problems, and would be really fair about active players who work to generate credits. After that, it is the CCP, and some players who support them, choice : Compromise, or radicalism. But at least, CCP can avoid bad communication, lies and silence... Just to finish by me, my two accounts expires respectively the 25/10 and 29/10. I hesitate about make them full of characters to use R&D to compensate the obligation of pay all the time, with the help of some GTCs (so this parasitize the datacore market), or shutdown one account (less money for CCP so...), or the two (maybe this is the best moment to begin others things and games).
GateScout	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:45:00 - [2787] Perfect timing CCP. My accounts are expiring this week (all 4 of them). As I'm headed overseas for the foreseeable future, I set a long skill to train looking forward to coming back in a few months. Guess that won't be happening. I see a net decrease in revenue in CCP's future. Give our regards to your banking ministers....as they did a bang up job too. Adios. -4x accounts.
James Marshalll Gallente	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:45:00 - [2788] Edited by: James Marshalll on 14/10/2008 22:47:26 Originally by: Zinnn On another note, where did catherine go? .... Come out to play catherine... I miss our discussions and pwning your logic. must be passed her shift and ccp didnt want to pay overtime damn the economy is screwing ccp damage control alts too!
Jocho Caldari Warped Mining	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:46:00 - [2789] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Zinnn Perhaps you didn't read that the china server already got that fix a while back and CCP said it would not be implemented in Tranquility As has been pointed out before, repeatedly, the statement was made that the change only affected Serenity at that time. It was never stated (nor was it even hinted) that it would never be changed on TQ. (In fact, if you ask me, that should have been a very clear sign that CCP was not exactly thrilled with ghost training.) As i have constantly said, if CCP was not thrilled then why was it around for 5 years?!?! Why did CCP mention it on the tutorial page?!?! Why did the mods say it would not be removed from Tranquilty?!?! If it was a bug, none of that would have happened. Simple.
Zinnn	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:48:00 - [2790] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Zinnn Perhaps you didn't read that the china server already got that fix a while back and CCP said it would not be implemented in Tranquility As has been pointed out before, repeatedly, the statement was made that the change only affected Serenity at that time. It was never stated (nor was it even hinted) that it would never be changed on TQ. (In fact, if you ask me, that should have been a very clear sign that CCP was not exactly thrilled with ghost training.) you tell me the purpose of serenity. Then I can adequately reply.

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