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Rhatar Khurin Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.10.14 13:40:00 - [31] Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer Or we could just draw sticks and rig the game so that Caldari become the aliens and shoot them. I mean the design of those physics evading ships must be alien! Caldarians! The closest race in game to "aliens" are Achura. I think they should be chased around with cattleprods and dissected to see how they work inside.

CCP Greyscale	Posted - 2008.10.14 13:43:00 - [32] The EVE setting is, ultimately, about dealing with being human, with all the virtues and vices that implies. Everything that happens within the setting is a consequence of human decisions, human desires and human failures. That, to me, is one of the things that makes it so strong, and such a good tool to explore the human condition - there's nothing that can be blamed on "those pesky aliens" or otherwise shrugged off as "not our fault". The rogue drones fit perfectly into this: they're the consequence of playing god without really knowing what you're doing, and that mistake will probably continue to haunt the cluster for a very long time. There's several ways you can use sentient aliens in SF, none of which I feel would really work for us. You can use particular alien races to capture specific aspects of humanity, which is an interesting tool but generally ends up creating very homogeneous races that lack depth. You can make them "like humans but with different skin", which adds exoticism and lets you explore issues of discrimination and so on, but also dehumanizes the issues by drawing a very clear "we're different from them" line. You can use them to explore entirely alien mindsets, which is really interesting as an intellectual exercise but moves the focus away from humanity. Or you can use them as "unknowable others", where their motivations and mindsets are hidden, which make great "evil bad guys" if you want to inspire human unity, but in doing so again tend to take the focus off human internal conflict. Any of these "could" work with EVE, but my personal opinion is that by broadening the scope of the setting it'd also reduce its depth and integrity, and I'm not convinced the tradeoff is worth it. YMMV

Avaan Eclipse Gallente	Posted - 2008.10.14 14:38:00 - [33] What if humanity found a planet somewhere that has an alien civilization, technologically on par with us, here today? How would humanity react, would it be instant slavery and homicide, or would it be sharing technology and thoughts? I think such things would've been pretty interesting to explore. I'm not saying it should be done, I just think it's interesting. On another note, how do you think the Earth would look today if there had been a second sentient species evolving separate from humans? how would they be treated? friend or foe? Yes, that last paragraph was just derailing
Batolemaeus Caldari Athanasius Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.14 14:43:00 - [34] Originally by: Avaan Eclipse What if humanity found a planet somewhere that has an alien civilization, technologically on par with us, here today? How would humanity react, would it be instant slavery and homicide, or would it be sharing technology and thoughts? I think such things would've been pretty interesting to explore. A second Jove would be interesing. After all, the current joves are hiding something, are they not? ---------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Prism X In New Eden, EVE wins you.
Aloriana Jacques Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.10.14 14:47:00 - [35] Edited by: Aloriana Jacques on 14/10/2008 14:47:54 Originally by: Avaan Eclipse What if humanity found a planet somewhere that has an alien civilization, technologically on par with us, here today? How would humanity react, would it be instant slavery and homicide, or would it be sharing technology and thoughts? I think such things would've been pretty interesting to explore. I think it would also matter as to what aspect of humanity stumbles across the aliens. The Amarr would enslave them, the Gallente would attempt piece, the Caldari would see new investment opportunities, the Minmatar would see new potential allies in their fight for total freedom, and the Jove would see new playthings! Originally by: Batolemaeus A second Jove would be interesing. After all, the current joves are hiding something, are they not? I think 'hiding' is the key word here. ;) - - - Aloriana Jacques - Skill Sheet
Mikal Drey Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.14 14:52:00 - [36] hey hey 1) open overview settings 2) Filter, Types, Entities 3) ZOMBIES !!! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! 4) OMG ZOMBIES ! ! ! ! ! ! 5) profit
Abe Mnemeph Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.14 15:22:00 - [37] The one thing I would like eve to get closer to is Culture-like space op a la Ian M Banks. the one thing that is lacking is a bigger sense of scale, of 'the universe is big and diverse and there are incredible things in it'. Aliens would be a step toward that (for example I like the hydrogen vs oxygen breathing species in culture novels). About Greyscale's 'Eve is about being human': I agree 100%. But then why is the eve novel full of deus ex-machina which launch everything out of humanity's reach (to say nothing of the "Enheduanni")? Except for Gallente, each race subplot unravel around a unexplained, non human trick (the elders, jamyl sarum and the broker). (you guessed that I didn't like that part of the novel much...)
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari Katsu Corporation	Posted - 2008.10.14 15:22:00 - [38] Empyrean Age Book Spoiler following: Thing is, there already is some sort of alien in eve. It's currently controlling the amarr empress for most of the time. It's some sort of lifeform that also is or represents the Eve Wormhole. It also has "magic" powers, that's why Jamyl Sarum can read your thoughts and stuff. It's a lifeform that even the Jove cannot control and now it's leading the amarr empire. So yeah, there already ARE aliens in Eve Universe. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face
Brugar	Posted - 2008.10.14 15:24:00 - [39] Sheriff Jones is an alien.
Rhatar Khurin Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.10.14 15:28:00 - [40] Originally by: Abe Mnemeph The one thing I would like eve to get closer to is Culture-like space op a la Ian M Banks. the one thing that is lacking is a bigger sense of scale, of 'the universe is big and diverse and there are incredible things in it'. Aliens would be a step toward that (for example I like the hydrogen vs oxygen breathing species in culture novels). About Greyscale's 'Eve is about being human': I agree 100%. But then why is the eve novel full of deus ex-machina which launch everything out of humanity's reach (to say nothing of the "Enheduanni")? Except for Gallente, each race subplot unravel around a unexplained, non human trick (the elders, jamyl sarum and the broker). (you guessed that I didn't like that part of the novel much...) The Elders were hardly alien, more like just wise old men with a vision. I've actually forgotten a fair stuff about the broker, but what i do remember made him sound a bit of an over the top james bond super villain and completely one dimensional. Jamyl Sarum is a terrible character also.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.10.14 15:54:00 - [41] Originally by: Brugar Sheriff Jones is an alien. Hey hey hey! I'm not. Honest!! I'm. Not! My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
goodby4u Valor Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.14 16:43:00 - [42] There are serious balancing issues at play here, we are aliens but I think hes talking about weird lizard type deals or what have you. Anyways back on subject, there are serious balancing issues at play because since their aliens they need funky weird tech, and in this they can become VERY OVERPOWERED as just about every mmo that has tried this has seen, not to mention it would just overcomplicate things.
JAME5 KIRK	Posted - 2008.10.14 17:53:00 - [43] has everyone forgotten the jovians ?
Vasili vonHolst Minmatar Gargamel's Lair	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:04:00 - [44] Originally by: JAME5 KIRK has everyone forgotten the jovians ? Jove is a lie. --->Movie: + Trillion damage to CareBear community--->M1tn4L?
Delc DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:17:00 - [45] I for One would love to see another race w/ new ships introduced! OR more Ships in general! N.A.G.A Corp \| NAGAmazon
Virida Mindstar Technology	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:33:00 - [46] Edited by: Virida on 14/10/2008 19:35:29 Edited by: Virida on 14/10/2008 19:34:37 Originally by: CCP Greyscale The EVE setting is, ultimately, about dealing with being human, with all the virtues and vices that implies. Everything that happens within the setting is a consequence of human decisions, human desires and human failures. That, to me, is one of the things that makes it so strong, and such a good tool to explore the human condition - there's nothing that can be blamed on "those pesky aliens" or otherwise shrugged off as "not our fault". The rogue drones fit perfectly into this: they're the consequence of playing god without really knowing what you're doing, and that mistake will probably continue to haunt the cluster for a very long time. There's several ways you can use sentient aliens in SF, none of which I feel would really work for us. You can use particular alien races to capture specific aspects of humanity, which is an interesting tool but generally ends up creating very homogeneous races that lack depth. You can make them "like humans but with different skin", which adds exoticism and lets you explore issues of discrimination and so on, but also dehumanizes the issues by drawing a very clear "we're different from them" line. You can use them to explore entirely alien mindsets, which is really interesting as an intellectual exercise but moves the focus away from humanity. Or you can use them as "unknowable others", where their motivations and mindsets are hidden, which make great "evil bad guys" if you want to inspire human unity, but in doing so again tend to take the focus off human internal conflict. Any of these "could" work with EVE, but my personal opinion is that by broadening the scope of the setting it'd also reduce its depth and integrity, and I'm not convinced the tradeoff is worth it. YMMV Great summary. Most alien races in scifi is just a few roles: - The human (startrek anyone? 10 thousand alien races who all look as extremist human cultures?) - The beast (traveller's Aslan, including all catgirl aliens as Kzinti in Niven's books, and all birdpeople, teddy bears as Ewoks, etc.) - The monster (aliens and the facehuggers, from aliens movies). - The blob/lump/shapeless creature. Generic semi fungi/shrimp/reptile hybrid from outer space, or a huge jelly, or anything not traditionally a "creature". Old horror movie stuff, Lovecraft monsters who lack all shapes, as Color from outer space, and Shoggoth's. Fantasy, is the same, unfortunately. Strange men/women with funny ears. I agree with the decision to keep EVE human.
Anubis Kerberos	Posted - 2008.10.14 21:52:00 - [47] Two options for "aliens" the way I see it (that would fit within EVE). Genetically Engineered creatures that develop sentience/sapience and rebel against their creators(so, it basically keeps with the Rogue Drone idea, man plays god and it goes horribly wrong, but instead of being wierd drone-things, these "aliens" are fully intelligent beings with their own unique technologies etc. which would add a lot to the variety in eve without detracting from the humanity of the game (as they are human creations and therefore made in our own image, in fact, I would say it adds a whole new dimension to the humanity of EVE). Second option: Extinct precursor race. I think most people that play the game just want to know that aliens had existed at some point in this universe. This is the perfect solution, I think, as it adds plenty of depth, without introducing anything that may detract from the humanity. This allows for plenty of room for new technologies and designs to be implemented, as well as the suggestion that the race that came before might have been humans themselves (if you play your cards right...)
Gautan Virdamot Nebula Rasa Technologies	Posted - 2008.10.14 21:56:00 - [48] Rogue drones, jove, sansha zombies, it's all there.
Igor Walesa Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.10.14 23:29:00 - [49] Originally by: CCP Greyscale The EVE setting is, ultimately, about dealing with being human, with all the virtues and vices that implies. Everything that happens within the setting is a consequence of human decisions, human desires and human failures. That, to me, is one of the things that makes it so strong, and such a good tool to explore the human condition - there's nothing that can be blamed on "those pesky aliens" or otherwise shrugged off as "not our fault". The rogue drones fit perfectly into this: they're the consequence of playing god without really knowing what you're doing, and that mistake will probably continue to haunt the cluster for a very long time. There's several ways you can use sentient aliens in SF, none of which I feel would really work for us. You can use particular alien races to capture specific aspects of humanity, which is an interesting tool but generally ends up creating very homogeneous races that lack depth. You can make them "like humans but with different skin", which adds exoticism and lets you explore issues of discrimination and so on, but also dehumanizes the issues by drawing a very clear "we're different from them" line. You can use them to explore entirely alien mindsets, which is really interesting as an intellectual exercise but moves the focus away from humanity. Or you can use them as "unknowable others", where their motivations and mindsets are hidden, which make great "evil bad guys" if you want to inspire human unity, but in doing so again tend to take the focus off human internal conflict. Any of these "could" work with EVE, but my personal opinion is that by broadening the scope of the setting it'd also reduce its depth and integrity, and I'm not convinced the tradeoff is worth it. YMMV One of the things that makes BSG far better than most SciFi series, is that line between the "aliens", cylons, and the humans is blurred. It brings up all sorts of questions about what qualifies as sentient or "free will". I personally wouldn't mind seeing the rogue drone line expanded into something like the BSG cylons.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.10.14 23:44:00 - [50] where the weird faceless guy on the forum when you need him !!!! The EvE LifeÖ Blog bringing you the blogs that really matter working in conjunction with EVE Network NewsÖ
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.14 23:56:00 - [51] Originally by: JAME5 KIRK has everyone forgotten the jovians ? No! Nevar forget the jovians ! __________ Sig by Neth'Rae Cannot read from face Abort, Retry, Fail? FFFFFF
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.14 23:56:00 - [52] Originally by: Armoured C where the weird faceless guy on the forum when you need him !!!! I was here earlier in the thread, wasn't I? I can't be everywhere __________ Sig by Neth'Rae Cannot read from face Abort, Retry, Fail? FFFFFF
No Homo Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.10.14 23:57:00 - [53] Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Originally by: Armoured C where the weird faceless guy on the forum when you need him !!!! I was here earlier in the thread, wasn't I? I can't be everywhere Yeah and your face can't be anywhere. -------------------
wolfbuzz Gallente Event.Horizon	Posted - 2008.10.15 00:14:00 - [54] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Well there are aliens, just not intelligent aliens. As for why intelligent alien races would ruin EVE-we've seen it before. One of the things that makes the EVE story so awesome is that it's unique. The giant-human-alliance-vs-aliens thing has been done in basically every SCI-FI movie, game or book ever made. I would support adding aliens if it made a meaningful contribution to the story and made it deeper/more interesting. I don't see how that could happen, all I see is potential to **** it all up. I completely agree with you. EVE has THE most unique SciFi story in recent times. I don't see how adding aliens would make EVE better in any way. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ikathis sihtaki	Posted - 2008.10.15 01:14:00 - [55] My clone Vat...Soo cold....sooo cold.....
Seth Ruin Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.10.15 01:29:00 - [56] Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Originally by: JAME5 KIRK has everyone forgotten the jovians ? No! Nevar forget the jovians ! Face it. Everyone has given up on the Jovians because the devs will NEVER actually add them. -- (CCP Inconsistency) Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.10.15 02:14:00 - [57] I was probed by an alien. Seriously he showed up in a helios and I killed him. Terrible loot. Then his buddies showed up and left crop circles in my gas clouds. My drones are afraid to come out of the bay now because of all these aliens. ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?"
Fennicus Amarr Shoot To Thrill	Posted - 2008.10.15 12:15:00 - [58] Edited by: Fennicus on 15/10/2008 12:23:57 Originally by: CCP Greyscale The rogue drones fit perfectly into this: they're the consequence of playing god without really knowing what you're doing, and that mistake will probably continue to give me free morphite for a very long time. Fixed. On a serious note, I think Greyscale missed the option that sometimes they can simply drive human events without necessarily being the bad guys - but I guess the Jove currently hold that slot (all the while being pretty alien but still looking humanoid... oops?). The Amnion from Stephen Donaldson's Gap Cycle books are what I'm thinking about here - yes, at the end of the day they are 'evil,' but up until the developments in the book there's an equilibrium between them and us. PS: Forum bug means brackets are stripped out of URLs. Not very useful for linking to Wikipedia. >.>
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.10.15 12:16:00 - [59] Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Originally by: Armoured C where the weird faceless guy on the forum when you need him !!!! I was here earlier in the thread, wasn't I? I can't be everywhere A... thinks Fa... thinks more Nope, i got nothing... My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Irulan S'Dijana Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.10.15 12:40:00 - [60] Fedos?

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