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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.16 19:08:00 -
[31]
This data would have been very useful 6 months ago
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Ishina Fel
Caldari
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.10.16 19:14:00 -
[32]
A few notes on graphs presented:
- The continually and significantly increasing 'demand' of the 1mn afterburner I can surely be attributed to missions. However, the fact that people are using afterburners in missioning setups cannot explain this massive volume alone - especially considering that only new players actually have a need for them. The vast majority of players already upgrades to a cruiser after becoming able to do lvl 2 missions, and therefore I'd say that despite the constantly growing subscriber numbers, the amount of people who are doing lvl 1 missions and using 1mn afterburners is in fact pretty stable.
Instead, the huge volume is more likely to be a direct result of mission running itself. Even level 4 missions include tons of small NPC ships which, upon being shot down, might drop 1mn afterburners. As EVE's population increases, more people run missions, thus more and more 1mn afterburners drop.
And why are they then traded on the market? Because there is a reprocessing industry for mission loot. Basically, mission runners do not want to bother with maximizing their monetary gain from loot sales. They look for good prices, sure, but they won't be bothered too much if they don't squeeze out the last few hidden percentages of profit margin. The time they spent doing that, they could have made ten times the amount of money running another mission instead!
So missioning loot like 1mn afterburners are pushed onto the market in bulk. And there are plenty of individuals that maxed out their reprocessing skills who fight a merciless buy order overcutting war in the popular missioning constellations. They are the ones who generate the huge demand for 1mn afterburner I's, and they do it for no other reason than to take what they bought, reprocess it, and sell the minerals for a profit. I'm sure that the behavior of trading increased amounts of missioning loot on the market just for reprocessing purposes is a significant contributor to many of your graphs and trends.
There's another noticeable spike in the second half of 2007 which might have to do with invention and using up afterburner I's to make afterburner II's.
It would be interesting to see in detail what happened in 2005 to jumpstart the sudden demand of afterburners though.
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Uuve Savisaalo
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.10.16 19:19:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Uuve Savisaalo on 16/10/2008 19:22:39
eyjo, the deflation appears to be a result of mineral abundance, both in terms of current mineral distribution and refining of junk mission loot. before this deflation occured, prices were generally dictated by BPO cartels as the bottleneck, but with invention they went into a freefall.
two things that need to be done is a balancing pass on mineral distribution to make regions less self-sufficient, and a heavier penalty on mineral reprocessing that is less affected by standing. resources should also be made more scarace in order for attrition to be a more significant factor in warfare.
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Letrange
Minmatar
Valklear Guard
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Posted - 2008.10.16 19:22:00 -
[34]
Question for Dr. E:
Will one of the future QEN cover the volumes of minerals refined from ore vs volume refined from mission running? This is relevant in that one of the major requests/ideas that keeps bouncing around revolve around changing the T1 module drops in some way to get some more production involvement (i.e. either reducing the mineral contribution of mission running vs mining or changing metalevel 1-4 modules from being drop->market only to being drop->production->market in some way)
One of the things that would add to the discussions on such things would be knowing how much is currently refined module salvage drops vs how much is being added thru mining activities. Obviously the real trick would be being able to tell the difference between a module melted from loot and one melted from manufacture (those usually being to facilitate mineral transport).
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adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
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Posted - 2008.10.16 20:07:00 -
[35]
while 'outdated' info, it was interesting, but i wish there was more covered
-sig-
Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
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Wrathraker
Point of No Return
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Posted - 2008.10.16 20:30:00 -
[36]
 Originally by: Ishina Fel
There's another noticeable spike in the second half of 2007 which might have to do with invention and using up afterburner I's to make afterburner II's.
It would be interesting to see in detail what happened in 2005 to jumpstart the sudden demand of afterburners though.
This is actually easy to explain but not in this thread. Eve-mail me in game if you wish and we can talk about it then.
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Tara Yang
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Posted - 2008.10.16 20:47:00 -
[37]
I like these QEN reports. Always good to have some more insight in the economics of this game. Hope we get a next one a bit sooner as Q4 2008 has already started.
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.10.16 20:52:00 -
[38]
I love these things.
But I found myself continually drawn to the screenshots in there. Correct me if I'm wrong, but alot of them seem to have objects in space that look as if they've been updated to Trinity.
c/d?
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Wrathraker
Point of No Return
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Posted - 2008.10.16 21:00:00 -
[39]
Originally by: MailDeadDrop
Dr.EyjoG, You are not forgiven. If you had taken 2 minutes to put up a post at the time the QENs were due, explaining that you were understaffed/overtaxed, then you might have been.
Missing schedule: forgivable if communicated.
Failure to communicate: unforgivable.
Agreed. This whole thing with CCP doing the "easier to see forgiveness then to ask permission" stuff has to stop. Either put them out on time, like you were hired for, or post as to the reason for delay. Your being paid to do this, get the job done or be replaced. Yes, it sounds harsh but in any other job environment you would of been fired.
Originally by: Shadowsword
Nice newletter.
I have an observation about it: while the number of subscriptions increase steadily, since 6 months or more the number of peak users online seem to remain stable.
That mean that players, on average, spend less time connected.
This can be interpreted several ways...
This is in fact due to many several things that are not touched at all in this report. The largest being the removal of the 30 & 90 day time codes. Since this report is late and should of come out before that was really done, I can overlook it. For NOW. I do expect to see it in the next one though. Between the removal of the codes and the removal of ghost training I am positive you will see the number of active pilots online go down and of course all markets to adjust accordingly.
Even though 2008 has been strong for Eve in general, these last decisions by CCP are going to reverse the positive trends that we have seen in the last few years.
Additional points:
#1Half of the active players in game are second character slots which are used as scouts to look out for the other players. They should not be counted as additional players since we can only have one of those 3 slots active at any time. Having it created and being an actual subscriber is not true.
#2 Areas of 0.0 that see the most traffic is due to one reason. Cloning facilities. People NEED to go there and they will, if they can, go to the closest ones.
#3 Ice prices changed due to the preparation for factional warfare. Lots of alliances took down PoS's so they could participate in it. That, along with factional warfare itself, is the reason why prices have changed the way they did for the times mentioned this year vs last year. I am surprised that you did not come to that obvious conclusion. Later reports should show this in greater detail.
#4 Macro miners need to be added into the reports. A lot of the price fluctuations you are showing, especially the large ones, are due directly to CCP putting into effect the new stuff to combat the macro miners. If you look at the Dev blogs on when they do this, it works out to the same times that you see the changes in the markets that you are talking about.
In general, CCP affects the markets just as much, if not more, they the players do when you are looking at major market changes. If you see something that looks odd to you, look to CCP first, as most likely it is them that made it happen in the first place.
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Fastercart
Gallente
Ihatalo Heavy Industries
Ihatalo Cartel
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Posted - 2008.10.16 21:23:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Washell Olivaw
Originally by: Fastercart
Screenshot or it didn't happen. d: The next QEN should have a picture of this rumored Dreadnought in action. (:
Setup screen
Zoomed in shot of mining laser on dreadnought
Psst. It was a joke to get them to put a picture of the Velsdnought in action in their next QEN...
Mums the word or they'll be onto me.
__
Rorqual AKA Mega Maid
Oh, my God. It's Mega Maid. She's gone from suck to blow. |
El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar
Meltd0wn
iPOD Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.16 22:30:00 -
[41]
Edited by: El''essar Viocragh on 16/10/2008 22:31:16
It is nothing short of cruel to publish all these shiny pictures so small and inside a PDF.
Nice QEN too. Your results about Procurers however raise the question how you handled Procurers that got turned into Skiffs. Because honestly, noone uses them, as you are just hours away from a Retriever and you can outmine them with pretty much anything short of a Rookie Ship.
Same is true for the Covetor for some parts, as its training is far away from a Retriever but very close to a Hulk, though there are environments where one would prefer the Cov over a Hulk, so it isn't as bad as the Proc.
--
[17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim |
Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2008.10.16 22:38:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 16/10/2008 22:39:39
Quote:
At the same time, moon materials continued increasing in price, with promethium leading the charge at an average 26% increase across all regions.
Quote:
n February, there was a slight increase in the PPPI, as it rose from 59.5 to 60.2 (+1.3%). Data interfaces continued to decrease in value, but prototypes and datafiles increased somewhat between January and February. Other items in this index were relatively stable, except for raw moon material. The highflyer was again promethium (+47.6% price increase), but dysprosium increased as well, though considerably less (7.8%).
ugh the prices just keep getting worse for us T2 manufacturers who consume the advanced materials that require the two. 
I'd kinda like to see dysprosium prices and promethium graphed on their own.
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Irogwai Senjyna
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Posted - 2008.10.17 00:31:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Irogwai Senjyna on 17/10/2008 00:31:15
Originally by: Uuve Savisaalo
Edited by: Uuve Savisaalo on 16/10/2008 19:22:39
eyjo, the deflation appears to be a result of mineral abundance, both in terms of current mineral distribution and refining of junk mission loot. before this deflation occured, prices were generally dictated by BPO cartels as the bottleneck, but with invention they went into a freefall.
two things that need to be done is a balancing pass on mineral distribution to make regions less self-sufficient, and a heavier penalty on mineral reprocessing that is less affected by standing. resources should also be made more scarace in order for attrition to be a more significant factor in warfare.
Uuve, you have a point but forgot to mention the tremendous impact that macro miners have on the mineral price. It is no longer profitable for human players to mine high and low sec minerals.
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Bonvina
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Posted - 2008.10.17 00:43:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
Dear Dr.EnyoG,
... T2 BPO owners can always outbid inventors ...
... resolution of the T2 BPO 'situation' is by now long overdue (much more so than this newsletter) and that the disruption this has caused to the T2 market is a matter of great resentment among those that have invested so much time and effort in invention.
...
I fully agree. You really hit the spot. However, I fear that Dr. E. will face severe opposition inside CCP, with their day-1 players and mighty alliance mates sitting on those invaluable BPO treasures.
The T2 invention can not really unfold as long as BPOs are still there. So why does CCP still ruin experience for thousands of players who could enter invention careers, just because very few players were lucky in a lottery years ago? They had their fun and endless profit. Now its time for something new.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.10.17 03:00:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Bonvina
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
Dear Dr.EnyoG,
... T2 BPO owners can always outbid inventors ...
... resolution of the T2 BPO 'situation' is by now long overdue (much more so than this newsletter) and that the disruption this has caused to the T2 market is a matter of great resentment among those that have invested so much time and effort in invention.
...
I fully agree. You really hit the spot. However, I fear that Dr. E. will face severe opposition inside CCP, with their day-1 players and mighty alliance mates sitting on those invaluable BPO treasures.
The T2 invention can not really unfold as long as BPOs are still there. So why does CCP still ruin experience for thousands of players who could enter invention careers, just because very few players were lucky in a lottery years ago? They had their fun and endless profit. Now its time for something new.
I think the change lies more in changing invention than just castrating t2 bpos. bpcs with limited runs and -4/-4 base is just 
and no I don't own any t2 bpos, I did invention for a while, but with nothing but a badger II, and somewhat limited funds, It was too much a pain in the ass. suppose I could get back in, but that would require a pos which would require more effort. I occasionally manufacture stuff, might do it a bit more often now that I have a freighter, although that would require some asset liquidation. have like 400mil in mins stockpiled at least 
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.17 04:29:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Goumindong
This data would have been very useful 6 months ago
You couldnt figure out there was an increase of mission runners and miners after the speed nerf dev blog? You couldnt figure out all these figures? I did and I'm not even that interested.
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"There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.17 04:34:00 -
[47]
You are capable of researching the t2 bpos to perfect. They literally produce at amazing rates. They are guarenteed to sell their product immediately if they price just below what any invention person could produce at.
To be fair. The invention fellows currently produce without having to calculate time and fuel into their system because there are research towers who run themselves on the premise of earning isk and fuel costs from research; ZZZ alliance for example. This leaves the free invention and copying open. So in the long run the only additional costs to the inventors are the -4/-4 vs perfect.
They claim volume... but that doesnt matter when you have a very low volume market. Such as cloaks or certain ammos or something.
Though the fix isnt nerfing the t2 bpos.
There should be an extremely rare decrypter only found in -0.9+ nullsec which can produce t2 bpos at like -100me-100pe. They can then research them to perfect.
Then boost the other decrypters appropriately.
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"There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Max Someone
Moonspud Tech
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Posted - 2008.10.17 09:54:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Max Someone on 17/10/2008 09:54:10
for you guys talking about t2 bpos have a read of this
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
The Crane Family
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Posted - 2008.10.17 10:37:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Max Someone
Edited by: Max Someone on 17/10/2008 09:54:10
for you guys talking about t2 bpos have a read of this
What part, the OP, or the four pages of comments utterly rubbishing his claims?
--
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
The Crane Family
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Posted - 2008.10.17 10:48:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Bartholomeus Crane on 17/10/2008 10:49:30
Just one thing I want to point out about my stance with regards to T2 BPOs: I do not think they should be taken away without compensation. Some form or method of compensation is appropriate, and I don't even care if it is generous. However, the end result of the mechanism should be no more T2 BPOs. Only this will (finally) close the discussion on this subject, and provide an equal opportunity for all T2 industrialists.
The problem with the debate that's being going on about this, is that both sides do not have access to the information needed. Meaning that a lot of anecdotal data is spewed that cloud the issues at hand.
This is the reason why I would like to see T2 BPOs being discussed in a QEN or a DevBlog. With enough hard data, reasonable deduction from that data, and a clear decision from that deduction, I think that this issue can be put to rest before even more damage is done to the economy.
--
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
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CCP Dr.EyjoG
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:40:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Pela Fharun
Is there a page where all the quarterly newsletters are visible from - all I have seen are direct links to the newsletters themselves.
Thanks
The best way to do that is to click my Dev name and then you can see all Dev blogs linked to my name. There you can find each devblog for the QENs.
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CCP Dr.EyjoG
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:44:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
Dear Dr.EnyoG,
The position T2 BPOs have within the EVE market .......
We plan on reporting more on the T2 market and T2 production in QEN Q3 2008(due in December) and QEN Q4 2008 (due in January 2009).
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CCP Dr.EyjoG
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:47:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Letrange
Question for Dr. E:
Will one of the future QEN cover the volumes of minerals refined from ore vs volume refined from mission running?
We have been looking into this data over the last few months and might report on this in QEN Q4 in January. For the next QEN, to be published in November, we will focus on missions.
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Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:58:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 17/10/2008 11:58:42
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
For gods sake don't start that idiotic T2 BPO debate in this thread.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:58:00 -
[55]
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
Originally by: Pela Fharun
Is there a page where all the quarterly newsletters are visible from - all I have seen are direct links to the newsletters themselves.
Thanks
The best way to do that is to click my Dev name and then you can see all Dev blogs linked to my name. There you can find each devblog for the QENs.
Here is the direct link 
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CCP Dr.EyjoG
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:58:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Uuve Savisaalo
Edited by: Uuve Savisaalo on 16/10/2008 19:22:39
eyjo, the deflation appears to be a result of mineral abundance, both in terms of current mineral distribution and refining of junk mission loot. before this deflation occured, prices were generally dictated by BPO cartels as the bottleneck, but with invention they went into a freefall.
two things that need to be done is a balancing pass on mineral distribution to make regions less self-sufficient, and a heavier penalty on mineral reprocessing that is less affected by standing. resources should also be made more scarace in order for attrition to be a more significant factor in warfare.
I would add to this that the deflation is also due to the fact how easy it is to produce Tech 1 items which leads to very hard competition among the producers resulting in a buyers market for Tech 1 items. The Tech 2 items are a different story and hence we are planning on reporting on that separately in the future.
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:59:00 -
[57]
late ... and not very interesting as it did cover very limited topics ...
I don't know why but I am always a bit dissapointed by the QENs ... There's always something wrong or missing ...
As a few posters already said:
1. mineral production from reprocessing vs mineral production from mining
2. T2 BPOs vs T2 invention
3. total population numbers (you still don't have a solid rule here despite numerous hints from players)
One minor note on pictures. If you have a section dedicated to a ship (like the mining barges and exhumers) please PLEASE use pictures of the subject ship, not just a generic render you found.
--- SIG ---
CSM: your support is needed ! |
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CCP Dr.EyjoG
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:59:00 -
[58]
Originally by: adriaans
while 'outdated' info, it was interesting, but i wish there was more covered
So do I. So much data - so little time. My future vision of this is that the players become more active in doing their own analysis. More on that on FANFEST!
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.10.17 12:21:00 -
[59]
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
Originally by: adriaans
while 'outdated' info, it was interesting, but i wish there was more covered
So do I. So much data - so little time. My future vision of this is that the players become more active in doing their own analysis. More on that on FANFEST!
maybe break the QEN into sections and assign each section to somebody :-) this way we have a solid structure and know who to blame/contact for feedback for the sections.
--- SIG ---
CSM: your support is needed ! |
Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.17 12:39:00 -
[60]
Thanks, been waiting for this for quite some time ;)
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