| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Sochin
   |
Posted - 2004.06.27 02:48:00 -
[1]
This is a question I haven't been able to get a definant answer on yet. Will Covert Ops Frigates be able to warp to anything within their scan range?
This function has been the main draw of Covert Ops frigates for months, and now it seems uncertain if they will even have this capability. I've been told in IRC that this feature has been bumped back to Recon frigs, but the devs say Black Ops frigas (EW) are due out next after Covert Ops.
When will we be able to finally locate enemies hiding in safespots? To pvpers this is a very important issue.
Nemo me impune lacessit
|
Duhoh
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 02:53:00 -
[2]
Seconded.
|
Fuujin
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 02:57:00 -
[3]
I'd also like to know.
_______________
The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
|
FraNtik
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 03:08:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Sochin
When will we be able to finally locate enemies hiding in safespots? To pvpers this is a very important issue.
?
You already can, mate. Just need some practice and patience 
----------------------------------
FA's Bloodhound
"You can warp, but you can't hide" |
Sochin
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 03:27:00 -
[5]
We'd like to eliminate safespots as a method of completely avoiding an enemy fleet. Therefore we need a method of finding SS in minutes, not hours.
Nemo me impune lacessit
|
Mephorios
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 03:31:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Duhoh
Seconded.
wtf happened to your face, mate?
|
TWD
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 04:02:00 -
[7]
Finding safespots within a quickly with little skill required is bad for PvP IMO.
people will log off instead of waiting for a possible fight.. less fights, even more gankings.
Also encourages more mass logon TS coordinated style traps. |
Sochin
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 04:14:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Sochin on 27/06/2004 04:17:26
Originally by: TWD
Finding safespots within a quickly with little skill required is bad for PvP IMO.
people will log off instead of waiting for a possible fight.. less fights, even more gankings.
Also encourages more mass logon TS coordinated style traps.
Yes, it would basically eliminate the possibility of waiting in safespots for enough friendlies to log in to fight (Which has resulted in some good battles). But I think this would result in more dynamic and exciting pvp overall.
It would still take a bit of time and skill to find a good safespot. The frigs would be limited to their scan range, and would have to get the safespotted ships on scanner before they could do anything. And I can't imagine why you would complaining about anything that would make ganking people easier. 
Nemo me impune lacessit
|
Mr nStuff
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 04:16:00 -
[9]
They should also allow you to anchor sentry guns along with repair and fitting facilities at safespots. Then it would be hecka cool. And maybe even some sort of signal dampening array to keep your safespots off thoughs long range scanners. 
Just make the anchored facilities run out of power after 12 hours of constant use. At which time they would have to be hauled back to a station for recharging. Unless of course there were some sort of a ship that could recharge them. hmmmmm.
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers..
Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 19. September 2004 |
valkir
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 05:42:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sochin
This is a question I haven't been able to get a definant answer on yet. Will Covert Ops Frigates be able to warp to anything within their scan range?
This function has been the main draw of Covert Ops frigates for months, and now it seems uncertain if they will even have this capability. I've been told in IRC that this feature has been bumped back to Recon frigs, but the devs say Black Ops frigas (EW) are due out next after Covert Ops.
When will we be able to finally locate enemies hiding in safespots? To pvpers this is a very important issue.
a thaught warping to any thing you want can cause a real problem maby not for pvp but for miner vs. pirate.
a image comes to mind , a small corp wants to advance
so to help them do that they try and mine the good stuff
bistot ark ect.
but the problem is that alliance member corps claim that area region wide over 40-60 systems area's that dont have constant trafic or are rarely frequented so they set up camp start mineing.
alliance members see this on the all seeing all knowing map and move in on the system to take a look only to find miners working away trying to earn a liveing now they dont like this so they sweep thrue an try to kill em all
miners with all sorts of ships warp to a safe spot only to be found out by a frig when they try to run frome the fleet of totaly pvp rigged ships they are merclesly slaughterd
the idea of going into 0.0 space is shut down because of the losses,corp is discuraged frome even thinking of going to 0.0
space
{congrats another empire non pvp pro carebear orented corp is born} pre deston to whine about high value or not being in empire space crying about how other ships are to uber and demaning drunken swings of the steel nerf mace of doom.
Error 7.0b1 - The item could not be deleted because it was missing The world will end in five minutes Please log out.
WARNING: Keyboard Not Attached. Press F10 to Continue
|
Kynoch
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 06:17:00 -
[11]
Originally by: FraNtik
Originally by: Sochin
When will we be able to finally locate enemies hiding in safespots? To pvpers this is a very important issue.
?
You already can, mate. Just need some practice and patience
I hear these boasts so damned often. Only if you are a complete tard and make a safespot between warp points will you stand a chance of getting hit. And the odds then are very low.
|
Sochin
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 06:20:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Sochin on 27/06/2004 06:22:04
Valkir:
Aww, those poor innocent miners working so hard to advance themselves...In lawless space claimed by an alliance. If your argument is that safespot busting is bad because it will make it more difficult for carebears to ninja mine in alliance space, then I think you can guess my response.
Nemo me impune lacessit
|
Del Narveux
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 06:41:00 -
[13]
Yeah, and in turn you might could guess mine
Even if no one 'claims' the territory, this would just make it really easy for griefer corps to fly from system to system blowing away secure cans and stored ships and stuff. Some of them already do this, but since its so hard most just focus on gate camping and laming newbs in 0.4. And, you alliance jocks had better take note...it could easily be happening to you and your assets, too.
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 06:53:00 -
[14]
Only Black Ops can find safespots via the scanner and they won't be out until post-Shiva.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Eldar Curunirr
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 07:01:00 -
[15]
Am I the only one who finds this to be a HUGE problem for Alliance at war?? If your attacking someone and all the hostiles dock at a station and log off (which you can't dock at) you have to haul ass all the way back maybe 30 or 40 jumps back to a station you can dock at. And if you make a safespot and log off in that system, or one around it, you get popped by a frig running around finding the safespots.
It would make things way harder for alliances who are attacking in hostile areas!!!
|
Fuujin
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 07:24:00 -
[16]
Well this will be a feature limited to the pilots of the special frigates, so it's not like we'll see them on every corner. As well chances are there will be some limiting factors as opposed to be able to jump right onto someone elses ship.
_______________
The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
|
DigitalCommunist
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 07:32:00 -
[17]
Black ops are the ships that specialize in using the Long Range Ship Scanner (module, not ability), so no covert ops probably wont be able to find em, just have really really l33t cloak technology, that lets them warp around cloaked
not as "needed" as the black ops, but still highly powerful..
you could be warping towards someones safespot while cloaked and they'd never see you coming
the devs did say triangulation would be made easier, possibly by allowing you to lock onto a ships warp signature and warp to it, if you have it at 5 degrees and within a certain range... that would be cool.
oh, and if you're scared of black ops, wait till interdictors come in, they can drop you out of warp
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 07:34:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Fuujin
Well this will be a feature limited to the pilots of the special frigates, so it's not like we'll see them on every corner. As well chances are there will be some limiting factors as opposed to be able to jump right onto someone elses ship.
Yeah, just like there's hardly anyone in an Interceptor
Logging off at a safespot will be viable. Your ship disappears after two minutes and it should definitely take longer than two minutes to find you with a Black Ops frigate.
Don't forget there will be a countermeasure, most likely.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Aeon Yakati
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 07:38:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Only Black Ops can find safespots via the scanner and they won't be out until post-Shiva.
Quote:
TomB > Covert Ops are the scouting based elite frigs. Black Ops are specialized EW frigs (which might get delays until post-shiva because of need of EW overhaul as posted quite some time ago)
I don't see any logic in having a specialized EW frigate, the Black Ops, be a good at scouting, something which should have be one of the Covert Ops main purposes.
|
Nybbas
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 09:45:00 -
[20]
i think safe spot busting is ganna have to wait till we get the recon frigates, and shiva with the tactical map... not really covert ops frigs...
|
illuminati
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 11:28:00 -
[21]
I've wanted some way of finding safespots (under 20 minutes) since september.
Combine that with nerfing the "pilots in space" in deepspace and we'll be set for scouts and proper warfare, where hardware would matter more than today.
Any 5-pilot gang can own a 200 pilot corp thanks to this foggy space-swamp thing we have now. Not thanks to skill, but simply because of mechanics. (often confused with skill...)
|
Baleur
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 12:35:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Only Black Ops can find safespots via the scanner and they won't be out until post-Shiva.
and you make this claim based upon....?
God i gotta change my sig..
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 12:47:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Baleur
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Only Black Ops can find safespots via the scanner and they won't be out until post-Shiva.
and you make this claim based upon....?
Oh no!
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
SwitchBl4d3
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 12:47:00 -
[24]
if they bring in ew frigs they need to get rid of local chat and map blobs
my 20p
"Teh lord of Nonni"
|
MaiLina KaTar
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 14:25:00 -
[25]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 27/06/2004 14:38:10
Usually before anyone hides at a safespot he's been in some kind of PvP encounter with enemies... provided that we do talk about PvP engagements here. So my first point is:
- When somebody hides somewhere, he usually doesn't do it without a reason and he usually has been in interaction with enemy characters before.
Clear so far? I think so.
What I'm trying to say is: When you allow ships of any kind to simply warp to ships they have on scanner you immediately make safespots worthless. Nobody would ever bother to make one again and people will probably start whining the **** out of the forums because as long as you're in space you'd never be safe, anywhere, no matter what you do, no matter in what kind of situation.
We have a pretty equal situation with double MWDing blockade busters. There's nothing you could do against them, hence the whining of those trying to block gates. Another example would be IJ-bookmarks or the current safespot dilemma.
Because of this I do not think that any ship should be able to directly warp to ships it has on scanner. It would make the situation unfair for those who are trying to hide and should at least have a decent chance of success.
I would rather like to see Covert Ops frigs getting a specialized hi-slot launcher that is able to launch bugs. Bugs are small tracking devices which, once planted on a ship, give away the position of that ship to anyone that happens to be in your corp, in your gang or in your alliance for a fair amount of time. Your mates could then warp to the enemy because the bug would give you a normal warp beacon.
The point in that is quite simple: You'd need to see and successfully place a bug on somebody's ship in order to warp to it, something which only Covert Ops frigs could do effectively since they can cloak well enough to stay hidden until they finally launch the bug.
Once a bug has been planted on a ship it would be fair game for a certain amount of time as any allied ship could warp to it.
Something like this would keep safespots as they are, but once you've tracked and marked a target with a bug it wouldn't be safe any more until either the bug wears off or until the bug is killed by other means (anti bug devices, station services, whatever).
In a system like this, somebody who likes to annoy alliance fleets would have to face the consequence of being marked with a bug and from that point he wouldn't be safe anymore. However, someone who manages to avoid bugs would still have the possibility of successfully hiding somewhere.
This is a situation I'd consider fair for both hunter and prey, whereas the 'CO-frigs can warp to ships on scanner' theory would place the prey in a totally unfair situation since hiding would be impossible. Remember... we all become prey from time to time. Would you like it when, no matter how much effort you put into it, your safespot would never be safe? I wouldn't and to be honest I'd prolly leave the game over that because there are just too many griefers in this game who f... your stuff up without any reason. If I can't hide that stuff from these people while they don't have to put any effort into finding me (besides being in a BO/CO-frig and not being a total idiot in using the scanner), where would be the point be in anchoring/hiding/doing anything inspace?
Think about it. The whole 'they can warp to ships on scanner  ' thing might sound pretty cool but the day when that is introduced would be the day where nobody would ever be safe anymore, no matter how much effort he's put into being safe.
Things like the ordinary safepotting or parking your indies in space to speed up your mining ops a bit would be impossible then, because any stupid griefer could easily find and destroy your stuff without putting any effort into it whatsoever.
Mai's Idealog |
Sally
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 15:08:00 -
[26]
Safespots need to go. Regardless of how.
--
Stories: #1
--
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 15:16:00 -
[27]
I'm a bit so-so about the whole thing.
Safespots need to be discoverable but it shouldn't be as simple as right-click->warp to, imho.
Perhaps it shouldn't be 100% accurate and, instead, gets you closer than 1M km or something.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Dianabolic
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 15:17:00 -
[28]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Think about it. The whole 'they can warp to ships on scanner ' thing might sound pretty cool but the day when that is introduced would be the day where nobody would ever be safe anymore, no matter how much effort he's put into being safe.
Brilliant!
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Things like the ordinary safepotting or parking your indies in space to speed up your mining ops a bit would be impossible then, because any stupid griefer could easily find and destroy your stuff without putting any effort into it whatsoever.
OK, valid concern - however, surely this works the OTHER way, too? ie you could warp straight to a bogey in local that was of concern to you? He'd no longer be able to hid and taunt you from a safespot, he would HAVE to engage.
Also, what stuff, EXACTLY, could he destroy?
|
MaiLina KaTar
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 15:25:00 -
[29]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 27/06/2004 15:31:17
What I was trying to say is that you don't improve the situation by simply turning around the table.
Right now, hunters are in a very unfair situation as they can never find someone who has set up a decent safespot. We all realise that this is unfair... hopefully.
If you however simply say 'safespots need to go and these frigs should be able to warp to anything in local' you just turn all this around into a totally unfair situation for those who try to hide.
The current system isn't balanced. Being able to warp to anything on the scanner or local however isn't balanced aswell. In fact it's the same thing, only the sides are swapped and now the hunter is the one with the uber advantage.
In a balanced system you would have to put some effort into finding someone in deepspace and on the other hand someone who tries to hide should put some effort into that. This is why I suggested bugs, because they require the hunters to successfully plant a bug on those they're trying to kill and on the other side the prey would have to put some effort into staying hidden and avoiding scouts who can mark them as targets.
Simply saying 'safespots need to go' doesn't cut it IMHO. It would keep the game just as unfair as it is today, only the outcome would be different with nobody being able to ever park a ship or do anything similar again because every single griefing noob can find your stuff no matter where or what it is.
Mai's Idealog |
Sally
|
Posted - 2004.06.27 15:40:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Sally on 27/06/2004 15:46:05
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 27/06/2004 14:38:10
Usually before anyone hides at a safespot he's been in some kind of PvP encounter with enemies... provided that we do talk about PvP engagements here. So my first point is:
- When somebody hides somewhere, he usually doesn't do it without a reason and he usually has been in interaction with enemy characters before.
Clear so far? I think so.
What I'm trying to say is: When you allow ships of any kind to simply warp to ships they have on scanner you immediately make safespots worthless. Nobody would ever bother to make one again and people will probably start whining the **** out of the forums because as long as you're in space you'd never be safe, anywhere, no matter what you do, no matter in what kind of situation.
We have a pretty equal situation with double MWDing blockade busters. There's nothing you could do against them, hence the whining of those trying to block gates. Another example would be IJ-bookmarks or the current safespot dilemma.
Because of this I do not think that any ship should be able to directly warp to ships it has on scanner. It would make the situation unfair for those who are trying to hide and should at least have a decent chance of success.
1. It's called unsecure space with 0.0 security rating where most of the safe spots are in. 0.0 is for zero.zero which means NO SECURITY. You have to take care on your own about your security. Doing it by simply warping to a position in space 400 au form any other object in space is simply a bad joke. So yes, unsecure space should actually be unsecure all of the time in any situation.
2. Warp-to-option would make the situation unfair? Give me a break! The current system is unfair for the people who invest more time and resources. E.g. 20 people in a solar system are not able to find 1 pilot. He is at a safe spot (and I am talking about a really good safe spot here) reading a book. And when he is done with the book he warps to a gate and jumps out via an instant jump bookmark. Chances to get him at the jump out are very low and chances to get him via mobile warp distruptor are very low too.
So how is 20 people trying to find 1 dude in the same solar system and not being able to due to bad game mechanics fair? They invest much more time, they do it in "unsecure" space, they bring more ships.
Please do not carebear the discussion Malina. Use your logic, the system as it is now is completly broken. Examples:
1. 1 day old pilot can travel in a shuttle 30 jumps in 0.0 space as fast as an Interceptor pilot with 2 million skill points in navigation if the shuttle pilot uses instant jump bookmarks and the interceptor pilot 4km/s cruise and 6au/s warp speed, the shuttle pilot is ultra safe. If he doesn't have bookmarks, he exits the client and is safe.
2. Time consuming deployable warp jammer installations which do not work.
3. Instant log off exploits. People who are warpscrambled by 8 warp jammers simply vanish from space.
4. Safespots 400au away from any object in space (good luck finding those).
To use your own words:
When somebody looks for someone somewhere, he usually doesn't do it without a reason and he usually has been in interaction with enemy characters before.
Why should I be penalized for investing time and resources to hunt someone down in insecure space?
EVE is the only MMORPG I played which has ultra-consent PvP even in PvP areas. And even upon enemy contact (solar system, visual) you are almost 100% safe all of the time.
As I said, don't carebear the discussion.
--
Stories: #1
--
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |