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Sochin
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Posted - 2004.06.27 02:48:00 -
[1]
This is a question I haven't been able to get a definant answer on yet. Will Covert Ops Frigates be able to warp to anything within their scan range?
This function has been the main draw of Covert Ops frigates for months, and now it seems uncertain if they will even have this capability. I've been told in IRC that this feature has been bumped back to Recon frigs, but the devs say Black Ops frigas (EW) are due out next after Covert Ops.
When will we be able to finally locate enemies hiding in safespots? To pvpers this is a very important issue.
Nemo me impune lacessit
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Duhoh
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Posted - 2004.06.27 02:53:00 -
[2]
Seconded.
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Fuujin
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Posted - 2004.06.27 02:57:00 -
[3]
I'd also like to know.
_______________
The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
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FraNtik
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Posted - 2004.06.27 03:08:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Sochin
When will we be able to finally locate enemies hiding in safespots? To pvpers this is a very important issue.
?
You already can, mate. Just need some practice and patience 
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FA's Bloodhound
"You can warp, but you can't hide" |
Sochin
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Posted - 2004.06.27 03:27:00 -
[5]
We'd like to eliminate safespots as a method of completely avoiding an enemy fleet. Therefore we need a method of finding SS in minutes, not hours.
Nemo me impune lacessit
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Mephorios
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Posted - 2004.06.27 03:31:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Duhoh
Seconded.
wtf happened to your face, mate?
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TWD
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Posted - 2004.06.27 04:02:00 -
[7]
Finding safespots within a quickly with little skill required is bad for PvP IMO.
people will log off instead of waiting for a possible fight.. less fights, even more gankings.
Also encourages more mass logon TS coordinated style traps. |
Sochin
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Posted - 2004.06.27 04:14:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Sochin on 27/06/2004 04:17:26
Originally by: TWD
Finding safespots within a quickly with little skill required is bad for PvP IMO.
people will log off instead of waiting for a possible fight.. less fights, even more gankings.
Also encourages more mass logon TS coordinated style traps.
Yes, it would basically eliminate the possibility of waiting in safespots for enough friendlies to log in to fight (Which has resulted in some good battles). But I think this would result in more dynamic and exciting pvp overall.
It would still take a bit of time and skill to find a good safespot. The frigs would be limited to their scan range, and would have to get the safespotted ships on scanner before they could do anything. And I can't imagine why you would complaining about anything that would make ganking people easier. 
Nemo me impune lacessit
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Mr nStuff
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Posted - 2004.06.27 04:16:00 -
[9]
They should also allow you to anchor sentry guns along with repair and fitting facilities at safespots. Then it would be hecka cool. And maybe even some sort of signal dampening array to keep your safespots off thoughs long range scanners. 
Just make the anchored facilities run out of power after 12 hours of constant use. At which time they would have to be hauled back to a station for recharging. Unless of course there were some sort of a ship that could recharge them. hmmmmm.
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers..
Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 19. September 2004 |
valkir
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Posted - 2004.06.27 05:42:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sochin
This is a question I haven't been able to get a definant answer on yet. Will Covert Ops Frigates be able to warp to anything within their scan range?
This function has been the main draw of Covert Ops frigates for months, and now it seems uncertain if they will even have this capability. I've been told in IRC that this feature has been bumped back to Recon frigs, but the devs say Black Ops frigas (EW) are due out next after Covert Ops.
When will we be able to finally locate enemies hiding in safespots? To pvpers this is a very important issue.
a thaught warping to any thing you want can cause a real problem maby not for pvp but for miner vs. pirate.
a image comes to mind , a small corp wants to advance
so to help them do that they try and mine the good stuff
bistot ark ect.
but the problem is that alliance member corps claim that area region wide over 40-60 systems area's that dont have constant trafic or are rarely frequented so they set up camp start mineing.
alliance members see this on the all seeing all knowing map and move in on the system to take a look only to find miners working away trying to earn a liveing now they dont like this so they sweep thrue an try to kill em all
miners with all sorts of ships warp to a safe spot only to be found out by a frig when they try to run frome the fleet of totaly pvp rigged ships they are merclesly slaughterd
the idea of going into 0.0 space is shut down because of the losses,corp is discuraged frome even thinking of going to 0.0
space
{congrats another empire non pvp pro carebear orented corp is born} pre deston to whine about high value or not being in empire space crying about how other ships are to uber and demaning drunken swings of the steel nerf mace of doom.
Error 7.0b1 - The item could not be deleted because it was missing The world will end in five minutes Please log out.
WARNING: Keyboard Not Attached. Press F10 to Continue
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Kynoch
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Posted - 2004.06.27 06:17:00 -
[11]
Originally by: FraNtik
Originally by: Sochin
When will we be able to finally locate enemies hiding in safespots? To pvpers this is a very important issue.
?
You already can, mate. Just need some practice and patience
I hear these boasts so damned often. Only if you are a complete tard and make a safespot between warp points will you stand a chance of getting hit. And the odds then are very low.
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Sochin
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Posted - 2004.06.27 06:20:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Sochin on 27/06/2004 06:22:04
Valkir:
Aww, those poor innocent miners working so hard to advance themselves...In lawless space claimed by an alliance. If your argument is that safespot busting is bad because it will make it more difficult for carebears to ninja mine in alliance space, then I think you can guess my response.
Nemo me impune lacessit
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Del Narveux
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Posted - 2004.06.27 06:41:00 -
[13]
Yeah, and in turn you might could guess mine
Even if no one 'claims' the territory, this would just make it really easy for griefer corps to fly from system to system blowing away secure cans and stored ships and stuff. Some of them already do this, but since its so hard most just focus on gate camping and laming newbs in 0.4. And, you alliance jocks had better take note...it could easily be happening to you and your assets, too.
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.06.27 06:53:00 -
[14]
Only Black Ops can find safespots via the scanner and they won't be out until post-Shiva.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Eldar Curunirr
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Posted - 2004.06.27 07:01:00 -
[15]
Am I the only one who finds this to be a HUGE problem for Alliance at war?? If your attacking someone and all the hostiles dock at a station and log off (which you can't dock at) you have to haul ass all the way back maybe 30 or 40 jumps back to a station you can dock at. And if you make a safespot and log off in that system, or one around it, you get popped by a frig running around finding the safespots.
It would make things way harder for alliances who are attacking in hostile areas!!!
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Fuujin
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Posted - 2004.06.27 07:24:00 -
[16]
Well this will be a feature limited to the pilots of the special frigates, so it's not like we'll see them on every corner. As well chances are there will be some limiting factors as opposed to be able to jump right onto someone elses ship.
_______________
The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2004.06.27 07:32:00 -
[17]
Black ops are the ships that specialize in using the Long Range Ship Scanner (module, not ability), so no covert ops probably wont be able to find em, just have really really l33t cloak technology, that lets them warp around cloaked
not as "needed" as the black ops, but still highly powerful..
you could be warping towards someones safespot while cloaked and they'd never see you coming
the devs did say triangulation would be made easier, possibly by allowing you to lock onto a ships warp signature and warp to it, if you have it at 5 degrees and within a certain range... that would be cool.
oh, and if you're scared of black ops, wait till interdictors come in, they can drop you out of warp
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.06.27 07:34:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Fuujin
Well this will be a feature limited to the pilots of the special frigates, so it's not like we'll see them on every corner. As well chances are there will be some limiting factors as opposed to be able to jump right onto someone elses ship.
Yeah, just like there's hardly anyone in an Interceptor
Logging off at a safespot will be viable. Your ship disappears after two minutes and it should definitely take longer than two minutes to find you with a Black Ops frigate.
Don't forget there will be a countermeasure, most likely.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Aeon Yakati
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Posted - 2004.06.27 07:38:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Only Black Ops can find safespots via the scanner and they won't be out until post-Shiva.
Quote:
TomB > Covert Ops are the scouting based elite frigs. Black Ops are specialized EW frigs (which might get delays until post-shiva because of need of EW overhaul as posted quite some time ago)
I don't see any logic in having a specialized EW frigate, the Black Ops, be a good at scouting, something which should have be one of the Covert Ops main purposes.
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Nybbas
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Posted - 2004.06.27 09:45:00 -
[20]
i think safe spot busting is ganna have to wait till we get the recon frigates, and shiva with the tactical map... not really covert ops frigs...
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illuminati
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Posted - 2004.06.27 11:28:00 -
[21]
I've wanted some way of finding safespots (under 20 minutes) since september.
Combine that with nerfing the "pilots in space" in deepspace and we'll be set for scouts and proper warfare, where hardware would matter more than today.
Any 5-pilot gang can own a 200 pilot corp thanks to this foggy space-swamp thing we have now. Not thanks to skill, but simply because of mechanics. (often confused with skill...)
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Baleur
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Posted - 2004.06.27 12:35:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Only Black Ops can find safespots via the scanner and they won't be out until post-Shiva.
and you make this claim based upon....?
God i gotta change my sig..
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.06.27 12:47:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Baleur
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Only Black Ops can find safespots via the scanner and they won't be out until post-Shiva.
and you make this claim based upon....?
Oh no!
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
SwitchBl4d3
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Posted - 2004.06.27 12:47:00 -
[24]
if they bring in ew frigs they need to get rid of local chat and map blobs
my 20p
"Teh lord of Nonni"
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.06.27 14:25:00 -
[25]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 27/06/2004 14:38:10
Usually before anyone hides at a safespot he's been in some kind of PvP encounter with enemies... provided that we do talk about PvP engagements here. So my first point is:
- When somebody hides somewhere, he usually doesn't do it without a reason and he usually has been in interaction with enemy characters before.
Clear so far? I think so.
What I'm trying to say is: When you allow ships of any kind to simply warp to ships they have on scanner you immediately make safespots worthless. Nobody would ever bother to make one again and people will probably start whining the **** out of the forums because as long as you're in space you'd never be safe, anywhere, no matter what you do, no matter in what kind of situation.
We have a pretty equal situation with double MWDing blockade busters. There's nothing you could do against them, hence the whining of those trying to block gates. Another example would be IJ-bookmarks or the current safespot dilemma.
Because of this I do not think that any ship should be able to directly warp to ships it has on scanner. It would make the situation unfair for those who are trying to hide and should at least have a decent chance of success.
I would rather like to see Covert Ops frigs getting a specialized hi-slot launcher that is able to launch bugs. Bugs are small tracking devices which, once planted on a ship, give away the position of that ship to anyone that happens to be in your corp, in your gang or in your alliance for a fair amount of time. Your mates could then warp to the enemy because the bug would give you a normal warp beacon.
The point in that is quite simple: You'd need to see and successfully place a bug on somebody's ship in order to warp to it, something which only Covert Ops frigs could do effectively since they can cloak well enough to stay hidden until they finally launch the bug.
Once a bug has been planted on a ship it would be fair game for a certain amount of time as any allied ship could warp to it.
Something like this would keep safespots as they are, but once you've tracked and marked a target with a bug it wouldn't be safe any more until either the bug wears off or until the bug is killed by other means (anti bug devices, station services, whatever).
In a system like this, somebody who likes to annoy alliance fleets would have to face the consequence of being marked with a bug and from that point he wouldn't be safe anymore. However, someone who manages to avoid bugs would still have the possibility of successfully hiding somewhere.
This is a situation I'd consider fair for both hunter and prey, whereas the 'CO-frigs can warp to ships on scanner' theory would place the prey in a totally unfair situation since hiding would be impossible. Remember... we all become prey from time to time. Would you like it when, no matter how much effort you put into it, your safespot would never be safe? I wouldn't and to be honest I'd prolly leave the game over that because there are just too many griefers in this game who f... your stuff up without any reason. If I can't hide that stuff from these people while they don't have to put any effort into finding me (besides being in a BO/CO-frig and not being a total idiot in using the scanner), where would be the point be in anchoring/hiding/doing anything inspace?
Think about it. The whole 'they can warp to ships on scanner  ' thing might sound pretty cool but the day when that is introduced would be the day where nobody would ever be safe anymore, no matter how much effort he's put into being safe.
Things like the ordinary safepotting or parking your indies in space to speed up your mining ops a bit would be impossible then, because any stupid griefer could easily find and destroy your stuff without putting any effort into it whatsoever.
Mai's Idealog |
Sally
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Posted - 2004.06.27 15:08:00 -
[26]
Safespots need to go. Regardless of how.
--
Stories: #1
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.06.27 15:16:00 -
[27]
I'm a bit so-so about the whole thing.
Safespots need to be discoverable but it shouldn't be as simple as right-click->warp to, imho.
Perhaps it shouldn't be 100% accurate and, instead, gets you closer than 1M km or something.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Dianabolic
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Posted - 2004.06.27 15:17:00 -
[28]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Think about it. The whole 'they can warp to ships on scanner ' thing might sound pretty cool but the day when that is introduced would be the day where nobody would ever be safe anymore, no matter how much effort he's put into being safe.
Brilliant!
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Things like the ordinary safepotting or parking your indies in space to speed up your mining ops a bit would be impossible then, because any stupid griefer could easily find and destroy your stuff without putting any effort into it whatsoever.
OK, valid concern - however, surely this works the OTHER way, too? ie you could warp straight to a bogey in local that was of concern to you? He'd no longer be able to hid and taunt you from a safespot, he would HAVE to engage.
Also, what stuff, EXACTLY, could he destroy?
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.06.27 15:25:00 -
[29]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 27/06/2004 15:31:17
What I was trying to say is that you don't improve the situation by simply turning around the table.
Right now, hunters are in a very unfair situation as they can never find someone who has set up a decent safespot. We all realise that this is unfair... hopefully.
If you however simply say 'safespots need to go and these frigs should be able to warp to anything in local' you just turn all this around into a totally unfair situation for those who try to hide.
The current system isn't balanced. Being able to warp to anything on the scanner or local however isn't balanced aswell. In fact it's the same thing, only the sides are swapped and now the hunter is the one with the uber advantage.
In a balanced system you would have to put some effort into finding someone in deepspace and on the other hand someone who tries to hide should put some effort into that. This is why I suggested bugs, because they require the hunters to successfully plant a bug on those they're trying to kill and on the other side the prey would have to put some effort into staying hidden and avoiding scouts who can mark them as targets.
Simply saying 'safespots need to go' doesn't cut it IMHO. It would keep the game just as unfair as it is today, only the outcome would be different with nobody being able to ever park a ship or do anything similar again because every single griefing noob can find your stuff no matter where or what it is.
Mai's Idealog |
Sally
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Posted - 2004.06.27 15:40:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Sally on 27/06/2004 15:46:05
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 27/06/2004 14:38:10
Usually before anyone hides at a safespot he's been in some kind of PvP encounter with enemies... provided that we do talk about PvP engagements here. So my first point is:
- When somebody hides somewhere, he usually doesn't do it without a reason and he usually has been in interaction with enemy characters before.
Clear so far? I think so.
What I'm trying to say is: When you allow ships of any kind to simply warp to ships they have on scanner you immediately make safespots worthless. Nobody would ever bother to make one again and people will probably start whining the **** out of the forums because as long as you're in space you'd never be safe, anywhere, no matter what you do, no matter in what kind of situation.
We have a pretty equal situation with double MWDing blockade busters. There's nothing you could do against them, hence the whining of those trying to block gates. Another example would be IJ-bookmarks or the current safespot dilemma.
Because of this I do not think that any ship should be able to directly warp to ships it has on scanner. It would make the situation unfair for those who are trying to hide and should at least have a decent chance of success.
1. It's called unsecure space with 0.0 security rating where most of the safe spots are in. 0.0 is for zero.zero which means NO SECURITY. You have to take care on your own about your security. Doing it by simply warping to a position in space 400 au form any other object in space is simply a bad joke. So yes, unsecure space should actually be unsecure all of the time in any situation.
2. Warp-to-option would make the situation unfair? Give me a break! The current system is unfair for the people who invest more time and resources. E.g. 20 people in a solar system are not able to find 1 pilot. He is at a safe spot (and I am talking about a really good safe spot here) reading a book. And when he is done with the book he warps to a gate and jumps out via an instant jump bookmark. Chances to get him at the jump out are very low and chances to get him via mobile warp distruptor are very low too.
So how is 20 people trying to find 1 dude in the same solar system and not being able to due to bad game mechanics fair? They invest much more time, they do it in "unsecure" space, they bring more ships.
Please do not carebear the discussion Malina. Use your logic, the system as it is now is completly broken. Examples:
1. 1 day old pilot can travel in a shuttle 30 jumps in 0.0 space as fast as an Interceptor pilot with 2 million skill points in navigation if the shuttle pilot uses instant jump bookmarks and the interceptor pilot 4km/s cruise and 6au/s warp speed, the shuttle pilot is ultra safe. If he doesn't have bookmarks, he exits the client and is safe.
2. Time consuming deployable warp jammer installations which do not work.
3. Instant log off exploits. People who are warpscrambled by 8 warp jammers simply vanish from space.
4. Safespots 400au away from any object in space (good luck finding those).
To use your own words:
When somebody looks for someone somewhere, he usually doesn't do it without a reason and he usually has been in interaction with enemy characters before.
Why should I be penalized for investing time and resources to hunt someone down in insecure space?
EVE is the only MMORPG I played which has ultra-consent PvP even in PvP areas. And even upon enemy contact (solar system, visual) you are almost 100% safe all of the time.
As I said, don't carebear the discussion.
--
Stories: #1
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Orestes
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Posted - 2004.06.27 15:43:00 -
[31]
Then again, in a balanced system, setting up a safespot should be difficult as well. Because, at the moment, it isn't .
Join the IC! |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.06.27 15:44:00 -
[32]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 27/06/2004 15:54:50
Quote:
So how is 20 people trying to find 1 dude in the same solar system and not being able to due to bad game mechanics fair?
It isn't... and neither did I say it is. Please read my posts again Sally. I can understand your anger and frustration as your current situation as a hunter isn't fair and I know that. However you do not imporve the situation by simply forcing your enemies into your situation by killing safepots and any means of hiding altogether. In fact, that's what I'd call 'carebearing a discussion'.
Quote:
Then again, in a balanced system, setting up a safespot should be difficult as well.
In a balanced system CO-frigs would be able to mark you as a target so that your enemies can warp to you from anywhere. The difficulty would be staying hidden from enemy scouts and avoiding to be marked as a target.
Anyone who ever played Darkspace will know what I mean.
Mai's Idealog |
Orestes
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Posted - 2004.06.27 15:52:00 -
[33]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
In a balanced system CO-frigs would be able to mark you as a target so that your enemies can warp to you from anywhere. The difficulty would be staying hidden from enemy scouts and avoiding to be marked as a target.
Anyone who ever played Darkspace will know what I mean.
Do you contest that setting up a safespot is horribly easy, though?
Join the IC! |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.06.27 15:56:00 -
[34]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 27/06/2004 15:58:30
Quote:
Do you contest that setting up a safespot is horribly easy, though?
No. Why should I?
I do not think that safespots are the actual problem (besides the off-system BMs which I consider pretty lame). The problem is that fleets assembled of dozens of ships aren't able to mark targets and this is what CO-frigs should do IMO.
Mai's Idealog |
Sochin
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Posted - 2004.06.27 15:58:00 -
[35]
We need safespot busting because it is impossible to wage a real 'war" when pvp is almost entirely consentual. Here is a prime example:
The SA was blockading U-Q in Curse space with a sizable force. The Curse fleet rallys with larger force and jumps into the system to retake our territory. The SA fleet is setup 100km from the gate we jumped in from. We all uncloak simultaniously, and manage to lock down two battleships before the entire fleet decides they didn't want to fight and safespot.
It shouldn't be possible to hide from us for as long as they want like that. We should have been able to destroy the entire damn fleet by locking down the entire system and finding that safespot. The point is: An entire fleet should not be able to escape battle when we are already in system trying to engage them.
SA came to our space, blockaded our system. We brought superior firepower, and they just safespotted. It is ridiculous that a fleet can wait until the last possible second, after our fleet has decloaked and started shooting at them, before they can decide to run away.
Nemo me impune lacessit
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Hakera
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Posted - 2004.06.27 15:59:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Hakera on 27/06/2004 16:10:38
The problem with removing safespots is that you removing the ability to hide and that is a big change.
Without the ability to hide people will just log off.
I do not like the proposal of removing spots but I do believe they should be easier to find through better triangulation methods. Possiblly through a module usable on black ops etc.
It is feasible to allow the warp to ship ability within 1 million km or possiblly 1-5AU range for black ops imo, that is a nice balance to allow hiding but to also allow easier ways to find spots.
This could be done and also when in black ops ships, the range to a ship is displayed within 5 AU to indicate you are within range using your 'advanced short range sensors'
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Telsa Lightning
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Posted - 2004.06.27 16:01:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Orestes
Do you contest that setting up a safespot is horribly easy, though?
If they were harder to make, wouldn't there still be the same amount of them made, just it would take longer?
Or how about they decay over time. So after a few days (weeks?) they disapear from bookmarks?
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Orestes
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Posted - 2004.06.27 16:03:00 -
[38]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 27/06/2004 15:58:30
Quote:
Do you contest that setting up a safespot is horribly easy, though?
No. Why should I?
I do not think that safespots are the actual problem (besides the off-system BMs which I consider pretty lame). The problem is that fleets assembled of dozens of ships aren't able to mark targets and this is what CO-frigs should do IMO.
Then, if the method of creating them isn't difficult, why should the method of finding them be difficult?
Join the IC! |
Sochin
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Posted - 2004.06.27 16:05:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Sochin on 27/06/2004 16:08:51
Originally by: Hakera
Edited by: Hakera on 27/06/2004 16:02:47
The problem with removing safespots is that you removing the ability to hide and that is a big change.
Without the ability to hide people will just log off.
So, at least if we're quick we can find their ships and destroy them before they dissapear. I don't think you should be able to hide from people indefinantly, which is what safespots do.
Combat doesn't work right when people have the ultimate degree of choice in if they want to fight or not.
As for finding safespots to quickly, long ago I suggested that Covert Ops frigs should first be required to get an object on 15 degree directional scan within a certain AU range before it could warp to something. This combined with eliminating the ability to make "supersafespots" 150 AU from anything using the map would make things right.
Nemo me impune lacessit
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.06.27 16:06:00 -
[40]
Quote:
Then, if the method of creating them isn't difficult, why should the merhod of finding them be difficult?
Your cloak would bring you close enough and from there it's simply a matter of activating your bug-launcher to mark your target. How's that difficult?
Mai's Idealog |
Orestes
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Posted - 2004.06.27 16:06:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Telsa Lightning
Originally by: Orestes
Do you contest that setting up a safespot is horribly easy, though?
If they were harder to make, wouldn't there still be the same amount of them made, just it would take longer?
Or how about they decay over time. So after a few days (weeks?) they disapear from bookmarks?
How do you know which bookmark in your folder is a safespot and which one isn't? The server certainly can't 
Join the IC! |
Orestes
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Posted - 2004.06.27 16:07:00 -
[42]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Quote:
Then, if the method of creating them isn't difficult, why should the merhod of finding them be difficult?
Your cloak would bring you close enough and from there it's simply a matter of activating your bug-launcher to mark your target. How's that difficult?
Probably the bit where being cloaked makes it impossible to activate modules .
Join the IC! |
Telsa Lightning
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Posted - 2004.06.27 16:08:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Orestes
How do you know which bookmark in your folder is a safespot and which one isn't? The server certainly can't
Any bookmark that is not within 1M KM of a warpable object?
That's asking a lot of a server
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.06.27 16:10:00 -
[44]
Quote:
Probably the bit where being cloaked makes it impossible to activate modules
Nitpicker 
Then you uncloak and launch the bug or you give CO-frigs the ability to launch bugs while cloaked. The detailed mechanics are up to CCP but I think you know very damn well what I'm trying to get at.
Mai's Idealog |
Sochin
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Posted - 2004.06.27 16:10:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Sochin on 27/06/2004 16:12:37
Decaying safespots wouldn't work because its to damn easy to make totally unbreakable safespots. It only takes a couple mouse clicks.
And the bug idea wouldn't be good enough, the map allows anyone to see whats on the way to them, so big fleets could still safespot before you got there.
Nemo me impune lacessit
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Orestes
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Posted - 2004.06.27 16:14:00 -
[46]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Quote:
Probably the bit where being cloaked makes it impossible to activate modules
Nitpicker
Then you uncloak and launch the bug or you give CO-frigs the ability to launch bugs while cloaked. The detailed mechanics are up to CCP but I think you know very damn well what I'm trying to get at.
I know what you're getting at. Such a system would be fun and bring in a bit of tactics, but more often then not an engaging fleet doesnt even get the chance to attack, before the hostiles warp to their safespots.
I don't see planting bugs as a realistic option to combat safespots. I'd rather see a delay on results, and a margin of error in finding ships.
Join the IC! |
Sally
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Posted - 2004.06.27 16:15:00 -
[47]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 27/06/2004 15:54:50
Quote:
So how is 20 people trying to find 1 dude in the same solar system and not being able to due to bad game mechanics fair?
It isn't... and neither did I say it is. Please read my posts again Sally. I can understand your anger and frustration as your current situation as a hunter isn't fair and I know that. However you do not imporve the situation by simply forcing your enemies into your situation by killing safepots and any means of hiding altogether. In fact, that's what I'd call 'carebearing a discussion'.
I have read your posts.
From my perspective you are carebearing the discussion anyway.
From my point of view the lame ultra-consent PvP stuff in EVE needs to go in unsecure space. All of it. This will never happen, CCP is a Carebear Controlled Proudctions company, but it still needs to go.
I'd prefer to be killed 20 times in a row going from 0.5 to 0.0 to learn that some dudes have claimed a solar system rather than having this local/map radar, safespot, instant jump bookmark, log off exploit, navigation skill imbalance, 8 warp core stabs and triple MWD bull**** (to name a few).
Your main argument is worthless, when my enemies are forced to adapt, so am I. When I can bring a fleet to screw them, they can bring a fleet to screw me also.
To move alone through space infested with enemies should demand skill or time or ISK or be risky. It's not the case.
It needs a radical change and best radical change to broken game mechanics is: remove them.
If you want to hide in 0.0 give us a module (stealth) and a module to counter it (see hidden) which works skill strength and module strength based and we are fine.
--
Stories: #1
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.06.27 16:20:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Orestes
Originally by: Telsa Lightning
Originally by: Orestes
Do you contest that setting up a safespot is horribly easy, though?
If they were harder to make, wouldn't there still be the same amount of them made, just it would take longer?
Or how about they decay over time. So after a few days (weeks?) they disapear from bookmarks?
How do you know which bookmark in your folder is a safespot and which one isn't? The server certainly can't
Everything more than a few hundred km away from an object in space is a safe spot. Since the Y/X/Z positions of objects in space are known to the server, the safe spots are also (simple calculation).
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Stories: #1
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.06.27 16:21:00 -
[49]
Quote:
I know what you're getting at. Such a system would be fun and bring in a bit of tactics, but more often then not an engaging fleet doesnt even get the chance to attack, before the hostiles warp to their safespots.
It worked in Darkspace... and it worked pretty well.
You also have to consider that CO-frigs have cloaking ablities which can bring you much closer to an enemy fleet than current scouts. I also know that fleets do not hide at safespots all of the time. That's exaggerating IMO.
I know from my experience that if I would've been able to mark targets right now, a lot of our former enemies would've died instead of being safe at their BMs and I know that I would've died several times for the same reason.
Removing safespots altogether would simply result in heaps of whining and IMO it would be justified. Never being able to find someone is unfair, but never being able to hide anywhere is just as unfair.
Mai's Idealog |
Telsa Lightning
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Posted - 2004.06.27 16:23:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Sochin
Decaying safespots wouldn't work because its to damn easy to make totally unbreakable safespots. It only takes a couple mouse clicks.
Yes, good point. Hmmm people are so tricky, aren't they. Ok, how about this logic (as I try to beat this idea to death): All bokmarks in deep space (away from a warpable object by X KM), will decay within a day. All bookmarks that are near that decayed bookmark by X KM, will also decay at the same time.
I see, same problem though. You can still warp into a system, make your 2 good safe spots (as they are very easy to make now), and use them for a day without a problem. But this might balance it, as you have to do this each day. So there will still be a problem with camping a system, and having someone make 2 safespots wuickly and passing the bookmarks around within a minute or so.
Maybe make the safespots active with a variable time? Say you make a bookmark in deep space. It shows up in the bookmark folder, but it is not active for awhile. It take a few hours (depending on how far it is away from a warpable object) before it becomes active, and you can use it.
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Garramon
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Posted - 2004.06.27 16:52:00 -
[51]
Well, its obvious Orestes is on the side of those who want safespot busters....but I can't figure out what he's pointing at...
I must say though, battle is pretty lame ATM. The other day we had scouts two systems away, watching an <??> force. We saw them switch directions and try to come in through a different gate. We came out of warp at that gate just as they were uncloaking, warping to their safespots.
So we waited for two hours, upon which it got very late and most of us had to dock and log, while they called us pussies. Ya, that was exciting...
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Aitrus
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Posted - 2004.06.27 17:36:00 -
[52]
Heres an idea.
Disable bookmarking while in mid-warp, and disable warping to a gangmate who is in warp. Now you can still make safespots by 1) Cap draining to get limited warps, or 2) flying on impulse away from something.
Still have them, but now they take some time to make. Anyone can make a half-decent safespot within 30 seconds of entering a system with current mechanics.
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Orestes
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Posted - 2004.06.27 17:49:00 -
[53]
A better option would be Black-Ops frigates needing a module, activate module, wait a lil, get a list of who is in space currently, right click, warp to.
Simple as that, it needn't be any more difficult. With such a module, introduce a countermodule, base efficiency and chance of getting a 'reading' on something on skills and module rarity, and voila! No need to run around cloaking, trying to tag people.
Easier too, I might add.
Join the IC! |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.06.27 17:56:00 -
[54]
Quote:
Easier too, I might add.
Yeah... and boring as hell.
Mai's Idealog |
Astaroth
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Posted - 2004.06.27 18:15:00 -
[55]
your forgetting a few things....
first sombody has to be in a black ops frig to be able to warp to a safespot, i doubt the frig will have much value except for that. (Do u want to be the guy hanging out with the fleet doing **** all until the opponents safespot and then get ganked while your gang is warping to u?)
second destroyers will be out by that time making frigs that warp to them rather dead(safespot team warps to a second safespot while safespot busters are still warping to the dead frig)
third it has been repeatedly said that the frig will have to get u on scanner to be able to close in on your position.... safespotter can also use scanner to see if there is a frig hunting him, and then take precautions. Plus it will certainly take some time to get to the safespot.(the right click name warp to thingy is silly)
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Helison
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Posted - 2004.06.27 18:17:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Orestes
A better option would be Black-Ops frigates needing a module, activate module, wait a lil, get a list of who is in space currently, right click, warp to.
Add a maximum range to the module and the method is perfect.
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Aitrus
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Posted - 2004.06.27 18:21:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Orestes
A better option would be Black-Ops frigates needing a module, activate module, wait a lil, get a list of who is in space currently, right click, warp to.
Simple as that, it needn't be any more difficult. With such a module, introduce a countermodule, base efficiency and chance of getting a 'reading' on something on skills and module rarity, and voila! No need to run around cloaking, trying to tag people.
Easier too, I might add.
Gonna assume you're responding to me. ;)
While new modules would be the best option in the long term, my suggestion doesn't really require any development. Just add a condition to two different actions, and it's on TQ. (I'm sure its more complicated than that in code, but the logistics are simple) Keep in mind those two 'features' I mentioned serve no other purpose than safe-spotting, so theres nothing to break. And the change would not require the development of anything new.
What you're suggesting is post-Shiva at best, and is dependant on the release of new ships/modules to impliment.
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Orestes
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Posted - 2004.06.27 18:31:00 -
[58]
Not specifically to you Atrius, more generally .
Though, everything discussed in this thread is post-shiva
Join the IC! |
Xavier Arron
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Posted - 2004.06.27 20:02:00 -
[59]
The whole "warp to object" option is just such a cop out. It should require some effort to find someone within a system. With a bit of thought a whole area of the game can be massively improved and made more fun and rewarding for all.
What I would prefer to see;
1) Improved ship scanner:
I would rather like to see an improved ship scanner, with a scanning range bonus given to recon frigs, and to normal ships when fitted with a new module. A better way of angling your ship is needed, ideally some sort of graphical compass around your ship with your bearing needs to be displayed, with handles / toggles for precisely rotating your ship (e.g. like the rotate handles in Maya).
2) Covert ops frigates
They should be able to fire a tracking device / bug (as previously mentioned) that will allow your corp or gang members to warp to a ship. The covert ops frigate would be able to fire the bug while cloaked and the bug would last for up to 12-24hrs (Would take considerable time to attach bug and at close range). The tags would also show up on the map, hence ships can be tagged by scouts but then found and dealt with later by larger forces. This would allow for instance the tagging of illegal miners found in alliance space, the tagging of ships for finding their safe spots or those of there entire fleet, or tagging to track a players movements and see where they operate and their base of operations are etcà
Covert op frigates (with a special module) should also be able to analyse and follow warp trails (the people who have played Elite 2 will know what I mean). Every time someone warps a signature is left at the point they warped from. This trail only lasts for a short time, but can be analysed (takes time based on skill) and the destination point calculated. This would allow for hunting / chasing of ships across multiple locations and systems, where it wasnÆt possible to get a tracking bug attached. Since the warp trails only last for a very short time, would be hunters would have to arrive soon after their prey went to warp.
Covert op frigates should also be able to fit a module that allows them to paint a target with a laser beam (or ionised beam or what ever) while cloaked. This increases the signature radius of the targeted ship allowing the painted ship to be targeted by corp or gang members from a much greater distance away, and with greater accuracy. (I saw this mentioned on the forums else where before).
Clearly this gives covert op frigates several useful roles:)
3) Removal of the show all pilots in space map data.
Nerf the all seeing all knowing map, so that player locations are not revealed. Ships destroyed data should also have a lag of 1 hrs in empire, and be unavailable or have a lag of 24hrs in 0.0.
4) Adding of 2 modes of operation to local chat channel û passive and active mode.
Active mode would be the same as the current local chat operation. A player would appear in local and can freely chat. In passive mode a player does not appear in the local chat channel however is still able to pick up all the local conversation and can join into that conversation at anytime at which point they then automatically switch to active chat mode.
Continued....
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Xavier Arron
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Posted - 2004.06.27 20:09:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Xavier Arron on 27/06/2004 20:13:43
5) And for alliances; POS û Sensors.
Since POS components are going to be fairly cheap, each costing from the price of a cruiser up to the price of a BS, it will be possible for alliances to build many of these within their territory.
Member corporations can build these stations to support their own operations as well as the alliances. As such to encourage this further and to provide a way for alliances to monitor their territory, I suggest that POS should also be able to provide real-time sensor data of the surrounding system and any systems connected to it by a gate. In the grand scheme of things this is still a small area of coverage; however it will encourage alliances to build many POS at key systems and at systems that are well connected to many other gates.
It should be made possible for the sensor data provided from a POS to be available in some sort of tactical overview window. This could represent the data as icons in a 3D view similar to the radar view and containing the info also found on the current system map. It would be possible for a commander to set a waypoint on this map and for corporation / alliance members to warp to this waypoint. (E.g. enemy fleet is hiding / re-grouping in safe spot within system, waypoint can be added and a fleet can jump straight to them. û this represents an advantage of fighting on home turf.)
Corp CEOÆs and corp members with the role ôCorp Intelligence Officerö would be able to see tactical overviews from all their corp owned stations. Corp CEOÆs and alliance members with the role ôAlliance Intelligence Officerö would be able to see tactical overviews from all POS owned by alliance members thus allowing them to see the ôgrand pictureö and more effectively co-ordinate and deploy their forces.
There would be plenty of ôgapsö in between, which would have to be filled by using scouts such as interceptors and the new covert op frigates. However this would still provide plenty of places for ships to manoeuvre within the shadows as it were.
Cloaked ships would obviously not appear on sensors and could thus become more valuable within combat û e.g. for scouting out targets such as bases to attack, mining ops etcà
With a wide variety of tools, the possibilities are endless.
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Vacuole
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Posted - 2004.06.27 20:54:00 -
[61]
I make it my business to hunt and plunder safespots.
It's tedious, but since it's tedious, then most Eve players don't bother with it. Hence, people still feel "safe" leaving their stuff at safespots, and so there's plenty for me to hunt for.
If you lazies would get off your butts and use the scanner for a change and quit whining for a rightclick->warp to option, then the matter would be resolved.
And I don't see why the whole current system needs to be changed just so fleet-battlers can have more fun. This game is not a dedicated fleet-battle engine. There has to be balance between different aspects of play.
As soon as safespots become as easy to find as right-click-> warp to, then that aspect of fun will be gone for me, and as you probably guessed, I only care about MY own fun and I don't care about yours. =)
Thanks!
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.06.27 21:00:00 -
[62]
I posted this idea ages ago on another thread about Black Ops frigates so I'll repeat it here.
My idea for discovering safespots is based on two skills (Deep Space Scanning & Multitasking), one module (Deep Space Scanner), and a new cooperative gang.
Basically, the Deep Space Scanner module can only be used with Black Ops frigates with the appropriate requirements plus level 1 in each of the above mentioned skills.
The process of finding a safespot requires three team-mates who are all in Black Ops frigates equipped with Deep Space Scanner modules. These pilots can form a special gang specifically designed for finding safespots. Flying a Black Ops frigate also opens up a new scanner.
Each pilot must be at least 1M km from the other and, when each of them have located a target on the new scanner they must hold it for 30 seconds (an indicator will show the countdown) at the 5 degree setting before the "warp to" feature is active.
They can then warp to the target with the rest of the gang (unsure about the black ops gang and normal gang being usable at the same time).
The two new skills could reduce the length of the countdown per level or something.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2004.06.27 21:18:00 -
[63]
There are several good arguments against safespots in this thread. Having an entire fleet able to hide after camping a gate is something that needs a counter.
Having a direct warp-to on the scanner will not increase PVP though - if anything it will kill it. I'd say that everyone involved recognizes that different corps who are fighting each other might have different strengths in different timezones. Why is it that a corp who is dominating in Euro times should have to be completely offline or in secure space as soon as US time rolls around? If 95% of your pilots log, the 5% that remain are completely screwed unless they can hide.
What does this mean? Well, if warp-to scanner gets implemented, then corps will be in the position of losing everyone who isnt in their strongest timezone. Mass logoffs and mass logons will be the only way to operate in 0.0 space. Fighting any kind of guerilla warfare during the off-hours of your corp will be impossible - you'll either have to log or die.
There is most definately a problem with safespots. Some form of solution must come. Completely removing the ability of anyone to hide without logging is absolutely the wrong way to go about this.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Vacuole
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Posted - 2004.06.27 21:29:00 -
[64]
In that latest ifrench interview that's linked on the eve-online top page, the interviewee mentioned tools for better safespot hunting.
I don't think it's going to be as simple as right-click -> warp to, though.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.06.27 21:48:00 -
[65]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 27/06/2004 22:01:11
I'll mention again that in Darkspace the concept of tagging targets for your mates worked brilliant and provided some of the best and most tactical online PvP fighting experiences I've ever had.
Such a concept could easily be applied to eve and in fact it has already been done in the PotW Prey Miner.
Mai's Idealog |
Vacuole
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Posted - 2004.06.27 22:19:00 -
[66]
Hmm, yeah..I seem to remember seeing some info about covert ops and cloaking, etc.. and mentioned there was something about tagging ships.
Maybe that's the answer..
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.06.27 23:24:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Vacuole
I make it my business to hunt and plunder safespots.
It's tedious, but since it's tedious, then most Eve players don't bother with it. Hence, people still feel "safe" leaving their stuff at safespots, and so there's plenty for me to hunt for.
If you lazies would get off your butts and use the scanner for a change and quit whining for a rightclick->warp to option, then the matter would be resolved.
And I don't see why the whole current system needs to be changed just so fleet-battlers can have more fun. This game is not a dedicated fleet-battle engine. There has to be balance between different aspects of play.
As soon as safespots become as easy to find as right-click-> warp to, then that aspect of fun will be gone for me, and as you probably guessed, I only care about MY own fun and I don't care about yours. =)
Thanks!
Sigh...
Good luck finding safe spots. If this is your profession, good for you. I am actually hunting the ships and the pilots and not not moving containers or empty ships.
If I wanted to be a garbage collector (no matter how much worth the garbage is) I would have trained my char different.
--
Stories: #1
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.06.27 23:34:00 -
[68]
Putting in covert ops frigates before nerfing the map to hell will be murder for the game.
Convert Stations
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Xavier Arron
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Posted - 2004.06.28 01:08:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Xavier Arron on 28/06/2004 18:11:29
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 27/06/2004 22:01:11
I'll mention again that in Darkspace the concept of tagging targets for your mates worked brilliant and provided some of the best and most tactical online PvP fighting experiences I've ever had.
Such a concept could easily be applied to eve and in fact it has already been done in the PotW Prey Miner.
Edit - Read the rest of the thread and my other posts on page 3 before commenting
I do like the tagging idea, it has so many uses.
Example Scenarios:
1) Alliance members send out scouts to search the voids in between where they have there player owned stations. Since the map nerf, and the ability to hide ones self in local chat (see my previous post) scouting has become a full time profession. Upon entering a system, it becomes necessary to warp to each celestial body to do a scan for possible hostiles - mostly illegal miners and pirates. The scout detects a group of ships on scanner and narrows down their position to one of the belts. The scout cloaks and warps to the belt to find as he / she expected a group 5 BS and a hauler. The scout tags all the ships and then heads out, notifying the alliance fleet who can now track the position of the miners for the next 12 hrs.
2) Freelance pirate hunter, who makes money from finding 'difficult' to find peeps. The pirate hunter scouting in 0.0 comes across a notorious pirate with a bounty. He doesnÆt have the fire power to take the pirate alone but notifies several bounty hunting corps and sells them the location. They pirate hunters warp to the system and gang, with the scout. He warps them to the location, but remains cloaked during the battle and stays well out of the fight.
3) Pirate scouts sitting at a gate scan and tag haulers carrying expensive mods and cargo. The pirates wait for the escorts to leave and attack. The ship jumps to a safe spot, but itÆs no good. The pirates warp to him again and this time have his ship and all the ark stashed at the hidden safe spot.
4) Pirates are trying to find a hidden POS out in 0.0 (if POS can be hidden that is :). Cloaked scouts at gates notice a hauler coming out of 0.0 with large quantities of illegal mods / guns only manufactured in POS in 0.0. They tag the ship and follow it back to the hidden factory on the ships return voyage.
5) A corporation is at war with one of its competitors. The corps mining ops are under daily attack and they wish to strike back at the heart of the other corps operations. They tag various ships of the corp they are at war with and learn where many of there base of operations are. They scout at a mining op and strike at the most opportune moment with a large force wiping out many of the BS equipped for mining.
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olyyy
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Posted - 2004.06.28 02:15:00 -
[70]
Edited by: olyyy on 28/06/2004 02:18:43
Originally by: Vacuole
I make it my business to hunt and plunder safespots.
It's tedious, but since it's tedious, then most Eve players don't bother with it. Hence, people still feel "safe" leaving their stuff at safespots, and so there's plenty for me to hunt for.
If you lazies would get off your butts and use the scanner for a change and quit whining for a rightclick->warp to option, then the matter would be resolved.
And I don't see why the whole current system needs to be changed just so fleet-battlers can have more fun. This game is not a dedicated fleet-battle engine. There has to be balance between different aspects of play.
As soon as safespots become as easy to find as right-click-> warp to, then that aspect of fun will be gone for me, and as you probably guessed, I only care about MY own fun and I don't care about yours. =)
Thanks!
I agree a bit on this. IMO a good way to fix safespots would be the following:
-NO safespot can be done outside solar system by warping to nowhere.
-ship scanner would get a larger range to get any ship at safespot between 2 objects. I mean, it must be possible to get on scanner a ship that is in solarsystem.
With this u get the following: any pilot with some knowledge with scanner could ***** any safespot. Just a matter of time.
To make the safespot hunt more attracting you could make cover ops frigs undetectable on range scanner... (in order to avoid getting spotted while trying to get the safespot)
Those things are simple to implement.
As for me... I say that it's currently possible to find some safespots, I found already 2 well fitted apocs (meh love named loot =), 2 rifters and 1 Moa in 2 safespots...
Galaga (Galaxian - XIF corp) And yes, Olyyy is on our KOS list so she enjoys stirring the "flames" ( 2004.05.25 ) |
valkir
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Posted - 2004.06.28 03:12:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Xavier Arron
1) Alliance members send out scouts to search the voids in between where they have there player owned stations. Since the map nerf, and the ability to hide ones self in local chat (see my previous post) scouting has become a full time profession. Upon entering a system, it becomes necessary to warp to each celestial body to do a scan for possible hostiles - mostly illegal miners and pirates. The scout detects a group of ships on scanner and narrows down their position to one of the belts. The scout cloaks and warps to the belt to find as he / she expected a group 5 BS and a hauler. The scout tags all the ships and then heads out, notifying the alliance fleet who can now track the position of the miners for the next 12 hrs.
mineing in 0.0 is not illegal unless you get caught and its
only illegal because alliance corps think it is maby a better term would be unwanted seeing as 0.0 space is disputed teratory.
fornow the way the game map is set up it is to easy to get caught all anyone has to do is look at the all seeing all knowing map an see action goin on an check it out.
the way i see it is if the map is nerfed to where curent map setings are used only in empire space and 0.0 is limited to
seeing gate action within the last 24hrs make it to where people have to be within a 3 systems to get that info.
i know this would make alot of people unhappy cause they would actualy have to get up an go look but it would be better
alliance space could actualy be disputed like its saposed to be not the curent setup where alliances claim a 30-60 soler system region.
Error 7.0b1 - The item could not be deleted because it was missing The world will end in five minutes Please log out.
WARNING: Keyboard Not Attached. Press F10 to Continue
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illuminati
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Posted - 2004.06.28 04:39:00 -
[72]
Edited by: illuminati on 28/06/2004 04:59:10
I think it's bloody stupid that you cannot dominate "unsecure" deepspace properly atm. If you have 20 ships in a system and your opponent has 1 or 2, they SHOULD DIE SCREAMING ffs!
Claiming that the current scanner works is pretty stupid too tbh. It takes forever, requires quadruple mwd or something and once you get in range, omg they warped again...
Arguing that safespotbusters need skills is a timedelay only. A skill this important will be in every fighters possession very fast.
Finding a safespot should be a process like locking a target. Based on "grid signature" = total ship signatures in a grid, it should be exponentially faster to find multi targets. If you bring 3+ ships to someones back yard, stand and deliver gaaaawd damn it!
Covert/black/whatever frigate initiates systemscanner, waits while the target in local is being narrowed in, possibly requiring motion from the frigate to calculate differing measurement data. Position locked, a BM gets created, WARP GANG TO BM, (At .... km) and the fight is on.
As long as the "pilots in deepspace" on map dies, it's still possible to run and hide but if you stay in system until hunters get it locked down, too bad for you.
This adds a lot better combat system imo. And yeah, I'm sorry if this makes deepspace feel unsecure...
Edit: On second thought, having high skills required for it makes it more difficult to have alts scouting, which is good. Imagine having a system locked down with 10 bogies all warping around between moons solo to avoid having high grid signature, omg, mayhem! 
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Xavier Arron
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Posted - 2004.06.28 18:19:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Xavier Arron on 28/06/2004 18:28:17
Edited by: Xavier Arron on 28/06/2004 18:21:34
Originally by: valkir
Originally by: Xavier Arron
1) Alliance members send out scouts to search the voids in between where they have there player owned stations. Since the map nerf, and the ability to hide ones self in local chat (see my previous post) scouting has become a full time profession. Upon entering a system, it becomes necessary to warp to each celestial body to do a scan for possible hostiles - mostly illegal miners and pirates. The scout detects a group of ships on scanner and narrows down their position to one of the belts. The scout cloaks and warps to the belt to find as he / she expected a group 5 BS and a hauler. The scout tags all the ships and then heads out, notifying the alliance fleet who can now track the position of the miners for the next 12 hrs.
mineing in 0.0 is not illegal unless you get caught and its
only illegal because alliance corps think it is maby a better term would be unwanted seeing as 0.0 space is disputed teratory.
fornow the way the game map is set up it is to easy to get caught all anyone has to do is look at the all seeing all knowing map an see action goin on an check it out.
the way i see it is if the map is nerfed to where curent map setings are used only in empire space and 0.0 is limited to
seeing gate action within the last 24hrs make it to where people have to be within a 3 systems to get that info.
i know this would make alot of people unhappy cause they would actualy have to get up an go look but it would be better
alliance space could actualy be disputed like its saposed to be not the curent setup where alliances claim a 30-60 soler system region.
Read my posts on page 3 !!!!!!!!
In my previous post I went into great detail on changes that coulld be made. As stated in my other posts, the 'all seeing all knowing map' should definitely be nerfed.
There should also be an option to hide ones self in local chat - perhaps by having a passive chat mode / option - where by in passive mode you can still monitor local chat, but wont appear until you talk.
BTW - Mining in an alliances teritory is illegal from their perspective
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Attrael
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Posted - 2004.06.28 19:40:00 -
[74]
Quote:
BTW - Mining in an alliances teritory is illegal from their perspective
They shouldn't be able to call it their territory if they never show in the system. There are huge swaths of unsettled regions in 0.0 sec space that you won't see anyone in unless you try to set up a small operation there. Then the alliance folks appear in a system they never would have cared about in the first place. But then again, that's what the 100km range insta-death drones are for, right Sally?
This aside, what would be nice is the ability to freewarp. In other words, point yourself in a direction, hit a warp button and take off in that direction while drawing a drain on your cap (to limit your range). This way some of the insane distances could be covered and if you know the general direction the safe-spotters took off in, you could freewarp in that direction while running the nifty scanners in an attempt to pinpoint the spot. This would allow people to locate the safespotters without being given automatic full system scan range so that one or two folks might be able to slip between the *****s if they're careful enough.
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Monkar
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Posted - 2004.06.29 07:39:00 -
[75]
Freewarp sounds cool.
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Estios
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Posted - 2004.06.29 11:22:00 -
[76]
I think Covert Ops frigs should have better scanners at least.
Ie show distances of ships way outside current mechanics ie actually show how many AU away the ship is and be able to range scan further than 246...... etc (whatever range is these days).
Then once you finally get within a certain distance (say 2 au for arguments sake) you can then warp to the ship via scanner.
This way you'd still need to Scan by range, then scan by direction, then begin closing in and then finally warp to object. Should still take a few minutes.
This is just a crazy initial rambling as use of scanner and finding safe spots is one of things in EVE Im the worst at (I want lessons by the way....TWD or Omni if you are reading this ....).
Others will come up with finer plans but planting bugs is too extreme one way and simply clicking on a face in local and selecting warp to is too extreme the other.
I need to be do-able in a matter of minutes and not hours or seconds
So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
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digitalwanderer
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Posted - 2004.06.29 16:43:00 -
[77]
Of course,since it¦s quite possible to make 600 AU safe points away from any object in system,not lined up at all between any 2 objects,the first thing that¦s needed is an increase in scanner range...
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