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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.06.27 16:00:00 -
[1]
Ok - first of all - its little to early to talk abaut the drednoughts since even the destroyers arent yet out but..
 i need to spekulate on one thing!
 Will drednoughts need a BS skill on lvl 5 ?
and will Drednoughts be a little like Ceptors? not a actualy new ship clas rather than exstension in existing BS line?
Feel free to speculate on subjekt, cause i doubht there will be any accurate data on subjekt from anyone .. even the devs 
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Squirrel
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Posted - 2004.06.27 16:14:00 -
[2]
hola siddy ^.^
from what i can surmise about current details they _are_ going to need battleship 5 among other things... as well they will have their own chassis, so new models like the destroyers 
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Carfax > guys, please dont pvp here, it messes up the avoid pd kill zones autopilot option |
Squirrel
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Posted - 2004.06.27 16:14:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Squirrel on 27/06/2004 16:15:43
double post.. but i only pressed the button once 
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Carfax > guys, please dont pvp here, it messes up the avoid pd kill zones autopilot option |
Dreez
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Posted - 2004.06.27 23:52:00 -
[4]
From what i understand , Dreadnoughts are elite battleships
like interceptors are elite frigates - only much better stats
and diffrent fittings. Problem with interceptors is that they
are about 300% more expencive then regular frigates yet just
as wounrable by missiles.
A good frigate pilot can still outmanuver and kill a "ceptor"
with the correct tactics , eventhou the frigate costs so
much less then the ceptor.
In my eyes (and many others) the interceptors are just not
worth the investment when it comes to the money , compared
to how usefull frigates are viewing their price.
Will these elite battleships also have this major diffrense
in price while it can still be taken down by another ordinary
battleship in a 1on1 ? , because if thats the way - then i
dont see why anyone would ever invest like... 1Bill in a
juggernought just to lose it to .. a blasterthron .
I know that these "juggs" will have a superior number of turrets/
launcherslots , but if you¦re in a juggernough with - lets say
14 tachyons, and you run into a blasterthron with 7 Ions...
what will happen ? Will the 1 Bilion ship lose against the
ship that cost about 1/10 or will the suprÚme firepower of
the superior turretnumber save him  .
My guess would be that these juggs will have a higher number
of WC-strength then a regular BS and thereby making it harder
to scramble.
'Trying to argue logically with Evol is like trying to teach a pig to dance. It only makes you look foolish and really annoys the pig ' - Duke Droklar [OC]
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ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2004.06.28 01:53:00 -
[5]
Dreez is right the cost of inty's far outweighs their advantages. Reason=Component costs are way to high. I don't agent run, but that stuff must be very rare compared to it's usage.
A good inty should run 2mill imho, and the producer should be making a profit on it at that.
Omg...... I just agreed with OC... nec will never let me hear the end of it..............
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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Nybbas
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Posted - 2004.06.28 02:38:00 -
[6]
dreadnoughts are going to be MUCH MUCH more than just some crappy elite battleship, they are a new, bigger ship class, i am sure the skills they require will be massive, but they will be the class meant for blowing big stuff up and sieging other things, such as player owned structures and the sort, they will be the siege engines, and they will be incredibly strong, from what i have heard at least...
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Hellek
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Posted - 2004.06.28 07:08:00 -
[7]
I don't think that interceptors are too expensive, if they are, why are so many people using them?
When will dreadnoughts come? Shiva or after shiva?
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Aegis Osiris
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Posted - 2004.06.28 08:09:00 -
[8]
I hope Dreadnaughts will be made quite different from BSs now. Yes, they should have more power, more CPU, stronger shields and armor and be able to fill more slots with bigger guns.
to offset that, I feel they should nearly immobile, both in normal movement AND in warp cost. Essentially, a Dread should be a slightly mobile weapons platform, placed and used for defending a POS, assaulting a POS, or doing area control at a gate. It should have slow, and very expensive warping, so that it can't be used in company with BM's as a quick-strike tool.
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TGIF
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Posted - 2004.06.28 08:14:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Hellek
I don't think that interceptors are too expensive, if they are, why are so many people using them?
When will dreadnoughts come? Shiva or after shiva?
I am an interceptor pilot, and the only reason i trained them is because they are fun. But that part doesn't make them cheap or better than frigates who just cost 300-400k.
I remember going out, just after i bought my interceptor claw and rushed into 0.0. It took me 2 days to gather items all over freaking empire since i had a special setup what made me able to fight several opponents at a time and live through it. There was my first victim, a crow interceptor. I gave him the time to come close to me and web me, did the same and allowed him to have 2 hits on me while my tech2 smartbomb took out his other cruise missles. Took him out swiftly and started repairing armor while traffeling onward, suddenly 2 of his buddies jumped me while my agression timer was active. Within 30 minutes my little adventure in 0.0 space and 3 days and 6 mil was done.
Sure interceptors should be somewhat more expensive but 6mil/15mil a unit for an ship that cost the same as a high end cruiser but has less 'everything' is not something you can justify easy.
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Absinthe Fueled |
fras
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Posted - 2004.06.28 08:22:00 -
[10]
I think the price of interceptors is fine. Sure they are expensive for what they are, but it's not like most people havn't got the isk.
They are a rich persons play thing, nothing wrong with that.
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Arud
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Posted - 2004.06.28 09:48:00 -
[11]
after what I have heard Dreadnoughts and Destroyers are new classes, meaning new ship models.
I realy realy realy realy hope that they dont force everyone to train for battleship level5 for the drednoughts because it takes me well over a month to train that. But I have a gut feeling that tells me it wont be needed just because crusier level 5 is not needed for the destroyers.
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Del Narveux
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Posted - 2004.06.28 09:59:00 -
[12]
If its a new ship class, my thought would be youll need BS 4 and a new dreadnaught skill. Personally I wish they would back off on restricting these newer ships to level 5 ship skills, they take soooooo long to train, Id think level 4 would be enough.
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
Arud
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Posted - 2004.06.28 10:45:00 -
[13]
Like with the destroyers they require several rank 1 and maybe one rank 2 skill to be at level5
that makes much more sense to have multible skills at high level, gives us a much variant bonuses instead of just having one rank 5 skill at level5 even though it takes just about the same amount of time to train for it.. and ofcorse many of us already have the required skill trained to lvl5 ;)
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Pascal DuVont
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Posted - 2004.06.28 11:55:00 -
[14]
I agree with those that object to the requirement for lvl5 skills... it takes at least a month to train for inty (unless you have uber stats/implants) same goes for other things that need skills at lvl5 to use.. I would much prefer that they needed several skills @ lvl4 (say for inties you needed frig+nav+evasive+spaceship command) training skills to level5 is simply hellish.
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Jeswyn
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Posted - 2004.06.28 13:05:00 -
[15]
They want those things to be extremely rare, so IMO requiring several lvl5 skills is perfectly justified.
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.06.28 15:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jeswyn
They want those things to be extremely rare, so IMO requiring several lvl5 skills is perfectly justified.
agreed
othervice all Uber rich corps will just fly Juggs
its dam easy to train BS skill to lvl 4 as it is for now
took me abaut 1 week to get it from 0 to 4 (maybe less)
interceptors need lvl 5 because they are Uber Frigs
Destroyers on other hand Dont need lvl 5 because they arent Uber cruisers, just anti frig cruisers
Battle cruiser on other hand will need Cruiser skill pumpped on lvl 5 i am shure of it
and so will be whit juggs!
I think carriers will need only lvl 4 BS skill - but i am not entirely shure of that fackt either...
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allmus
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Posted - 2004.06.28 15:35:00 -
[17]
i personally think that having anything required for lvl5(except needed for other skills) is a bad idea,
i would like to see any new skill's and ship's only need lvl4, but here's a thought.....
interceptors skill - say as they are....
destroyers skill - need lvl3 in interceptor skill and lvl 1 in new destroyer skill...
Battle cruiser skill -need lvl3 in interceptor skill and lvl3 in new destroyer skill....
dreadnoughts - need both lvl4 in interceptor and destroyer skills, also they are race based(i.e only minmatar pilot's can fly minmatar
just what i'd like to see happen, 
this post was funded by Quafe
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Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2004.06.28 15:49:00 -
[18]
If CCP have any sense at all, the juggs will require multiple skills at lvl 5 (including BS lvl5), and should cost in excess of 1 Billion isk each.
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Jeswyn
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Posted - 2004.06.28 15:54:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Jeswyn on 28/06/2004 16:05:24
I don't quite understand why Dreadnoughts (the largest ship class with the biggest guns) would require a skill like Interceptors (the smallers combat ship class) at lvl4
A good start for Dreadnoughts would be:
race's Battleship lvl5
Spaceship Command lvl5
Escorts lvl4-5
and either Navigation or Warp Drive Operation at lvl5
And yes, they should be painstakingly slow, heavily armored and armed but very vulnerable to smaller ship classes. And they should neither be able to pull their own little escort fleet out of their drone bay
It seems most of the people here only want an even better/bigger 1vs1 gank tool or miner than they currently have. But methinks Dreadnoughts were designed to be fleet ships, potentially devastating but near helpless on their own.
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Arud
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Posted - 2004.06.28 16:12:00 -
[20]
The way I have always looked at it
Battleship lvl1 - Tier one ships, Armageddon, Dominix so on
Battleship lvl2 - Tier two ships, Apoc, Mega and so on
Battleship lvl3 - Carriers
Battleship lvl4 - Dreadnoghts
Battleship lvl5 - Titans
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Arud
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Posted - 2004.06.28 16:15:00 -
[21]
and I would much more like to see it that it wont depend on another ship skill, so that to fly a crusier size ship wouldnt include the requirement of a frigate sized ship unless that crusier was made to take out frigs like the destroyer is.
Battlecrousers for example should only reqire crusier skills, not interceptor skill at some level
This pushes people to specialice so you have characters that can fly for example interceptors, not battlecrusiers but can fly dreadnoghts and players that can only fly dreadnoghts.
but in the end I just want to see the skill requirement make sense :P
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digitalwanderer
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Posted - 2004.06.29 14:47:00 -
[22]
Edited by: digitalwanderer on 29/06/2004 14:49:26
Originally by: Arud
The way I have always looked at it
Battleship lvl1 - Tier one ships, Armageddon, Dominix so on
Battleship lvl2 - Tier two ships, Apoc, Mega and so on
Battleship lvl3 - Carriers
Battleship lvl4 - Dreadnoghts
Battleship lvl5 - Titans
Personally,i doubt it¦ll happen like that,since many veterans already have multiple BS¦s from several races trained to lvl 3~4(perhaps even all of them),so that would mean that given enough ISK,they would be able to fly carriers and dreadnoughts from different races as well...
CCP did mention that they did want to see specialisation in terms of ships that users will be able to fly,most likely given that training times for these ships will also take a lot longer too...
Titans should require no less than dreadnought skill lvl 5 as at least one of it¦s requirements, and that skill at lvl 5,should take at least twice as long as BS lvl 5 skill currently does for a pilot with all current learning skills maxed out and the use of implants...
Meaning that it should take upwards of 120 days(minimum)to get from lvl 1 dreadnought all the way to lvl 5(90 days on average between lvl 4 and 5),before you could even begin to train for titans at all...
That would pretty much assure the type of specialisation wich a pilot would have to commit early on to a specific race,as training for the others would take increadibly long to accomplish no matter what implants or learning skills were used...
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Larno
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Posted - 2004.06.29 15:26:00 -
[23]
Originally by: digitalwanderer
....Titans should require no less than dreadnought skill lvl 5 as at least one of it¦s requirements, and that skill at lvl 5,should take at least twice as long as BS lvl 5 skill currently does for a pilot with all current learning skills maxed out and the use of implants.....
So you are saying people should spend FOUR MONTHS training for one ship? You are effectively paying $60 to CCP just to pilot that ship.
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Fighterpilotjp
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Posted - 2004.06.29 15:48:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Larno
So you are saying people should spend FOUR MONTHS training for one ship? You are effectively paying $60 to CCP just to pilot that ship.
combat Your Tachyon Beam Laser I hits Blood Arch Templar, doing 133.7 damage. |
Fighterpilotjp
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Posted - 2004.06.29 15:53:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Larno
So you are saying people should spend FOUR MONTHS training for one ship? You are effectively paying $60 to CCP just to pilot that ship.
This is a good point, so it actually could help us out a bit. People are upset because so many Battleships are flying around these days, when they're supposed to be very hard to obtain. If it takes this much to pilot a Dreadnought, we can be assured that there will be very few of these pilots. They might even be paid a handsome amount by a corporation/alliance just to pilot the corp Dreadnought, if nobody else can do it.
combat Your Tachyon Beam Laser I hits Blood Arch Templar, doing 133.7 damage. |
digitalwanderer
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Posted - 2004.06.29 16:16:00 -
[26]
Edited by: digitalwanderer on 29/06/2004 16:24:14
Originally by: Larno
Originally by: digitalwanderer
....Titans should require no less than dreadnought skill lvl 5 as at least one of it¦s requirements, and that skill at lvl 5,should take at least twice as long as BS lvl 5 skill currently does for a pilot with all current learning skills maxed out and the use of implants.....
So you are saying people should spend FOUR MONTHS training for one ship? You are effectively paying $60 to CCP just to pilot that ship.
Basically,yes..
You have to remember that titans are the ultimate ships to fly around in,should their specs be changed to reflect what they¦re really intended for,so the skill requirements to fly one should be consequently,also very high..
12~18 months from now,i want to be in awe of even being able to see an aliance owned titan,asuming it isn¦t a hostile one and simply vaporises my ship in a couple of volleys...
I have no doubt that we¦re already going to see quite a lot of dreadnoughts flying around,even if their cost surpasses a billion isk a piece just for the ship itself,as the theoretical BS lvl 5 requirement isn¦t enough of a deterent for users to still train at least 2,possibly more,races to BS lvl 5,especially once advanced learning skills and better implants(standard ones)are introduced with shiva,as it could cut down that lvl 4 to lvl 5 bs training time to 30 days or even under that,if using a char that already has good perception and willpower atributes...
I¦m currently over half way there to train Amarr BS5,and that¦s with the possible apearance of dreadnoughts or carriers likely still 8~10 months away,in the next big patch after shiva(kali i think?),i will,along with many of older players, have more than enough time to train yet another BS race to lvl 5 as well(minimum),even if advanced learning skills/better implants aren¦t released in shiva...
Dreadnoughts should also be be ultimate ship that single users should be able to aquire/fly out of their own means...Anything bigger is thru the corporation/aliance he/she belongs to(for mini titans and titans respectfully)...
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Larno
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Posted - 2004.06.29 19:47:00 -
[27]
From the sticky thread in the skills section:
http://www.bankize.com/eve/og_skillstree_castor.html
Shows that the titan skill only requires BS level 4. Other prequesites include Leadership LVL 5 and Spaceship Command LVL 5. Thats a good 20 days of training. The Titan skill is also rank 12 so if the titans themselves need level 4 or whatever thats another 15 days or so.
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flummox
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Posted - 2004.06.29 20:09:00 -
[28]
Originally by: allmus
i personally think that having anything required for lvl5(except needed for other skills) is a bad idea,
i would like to see any new skill's and ship's only need lvl4, but here's a thought.....
interceptors skill - say as they are....
destroyers skill - need lvl3 in interceptor skill and lvl 1 in new destroyer skill...
Battle cruiser skill -need lvl3 in interceptor skill and lvl3 in new destroyer skill....
dreadnoughts - need both lvl4 in interceptor and destroyer skills, also they are race based(i.e only minmatar pilot's can fly minmatar
just what i'd like to see happen,
no.
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
digitalwanderer
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Posted - 2004.06.29 20:11:00 -
[29]
Edited by: digitalwanderer on 29/06/2004 20:14:06
Originally by: Larno
From the sticky thread in the skills section:
http://www.bankize.com/eve/og_skillstree_castor.html
Shows that the titan skill only requires BS level 4. Other prequesites include Leadership LVL 5 and Spaceship Command LVL 5. Thats a good 20 days of training. The Titan skill is also rank 12 so if the titans themselves need level 4 or whatever thats another 15 days or so.
Those are likely placeholder skill requirements,much like the current specs of titans(or so i hope)...
If those are the skill requirements for titans when they¦ll eventually show up,it wouldn¦t take much longer to train for that than what interceptors currently require,wich need frigate lvl 5 and evasive manuvering lvl 5,wich when combined,already require about a month to even begin to train the interceptor skill itself,so it¦s optimistic(to say the least),that titans would only require the skillset you mentioned above,since by the time they show up,pretty much everyone will have the necessary skills to fly one....
Think it¦s safe to say that most players don¦t really want the same situation that happened with BS¦s shortly after the game was released...
Just my 0.2 cents tho...
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