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Archaic Emm
Amarr
O.M.E.R.T.A.
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Posted - 2008.10.20 13:33:00 -
[1]
I remember a while back when rigs/boosters were supposed to be introduced to the game, my comprehension was that they were supposed to be AFFORDABLE mods to ANY ship.
out of my ignorance of industry mechanics, why are rigs so dang overpriced? currently some of the most common used rigs are 25-40m isk, which is 50% price of most of the ships we use them on if not 500%+. Say a vaga, right around 75m if i remember right, you end up spending 60m on poly rigs if you want them.
in general economics, if something is in high demand, and has a steady supply as these rigs do, it usually drives the sellers to undercut eachother.
so, my guess is cost of making is still very high, or we're getting stiffed.
anyone have some insight?
i've always thought they were supposed to be cheap mods that can be used to 'customize' your ship to how you fly.
feedback?
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Kaileen Starsong
Amarr
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.20 13:37:00 -
[2]
My wild guess would be that some of the expensive rigs share components, hence their priced is derived from the price of the components which are highly demanded.
Some rigs are quite cheap - weapon rigs, shield resist rigs, gravity capacitor upgrades, etc.
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El Yatta
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.10.20 13:40:00 -
[3]
I dont remember ccp ever saying tha rigs were supposed to be really affordable?
And even if they did - rigs are affordable now. Fitting should always be a reasonable proportion of the cost of the ship, makes a lot of sense, as the ship is useless without a decent fit.
Essentially your complain is "why am I poor?"
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Mercenary Forces |
The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2008.10.20 13:43:00 -
[4]
Edited by: The Djego on 20/10/2008 13:44:34
Rigs that are expensive are A. very good(Polys, Trimaks), B. very popular(Armor Rigs, Speed Rigs) because of the lack of good alternatives, C. share expensive Rig parts, that are expensive because A and B.
Things would be not as bad if not the most used Rigs would not share mostly one Rig part(like Armor Plates and Alloyed Tritanium Bars).
Simply cross check on the Weapon Rigs, Electronic Rigs or Shield Rigs, even the T2 are quite affordalbe because of her more limited use and by not using some of the high demand salvage Items.
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Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
 Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Archaic Emm
Amarr
O.M.E.R.T.A.
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Posted - 2008.10.20 13:50:00 -
[5]
figured it was the components. just wasnt sure, because as mentioned, some really effective rigs like shield screens are a decent 6-8m while some rigs are 3x's that.
and as for the comment made about being poor, thats not really the point of the post, just wondering why its pretty much not cost effective to rig a cruiser to tweak it just a little. as i said, my comprehension was rigs were supposed to be easier to produce/sell than they appear to be currently.
mom didnt teach you 'if you dont have something nice to say, dont say anything at all' ?
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Melody Elvisdottir
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Posted - 2008.10.20 15:38:00 -
[6]
the other reason is that some of the most important components, as well as being needed for many rigs, are also quite rare, for every 50 charred micro circuits, you may get one melted cap console, thus driving up the price.
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Fistme
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Posted - 2008.10.20 15:43:00 -
[7]
Rigs are one of the worst implemented idea i've ever seen in eve. Don't get me wrong, the concept is very sound however how they were added is just pure idiocy.
What they should have done is... Introduce different sized rigs for different sized ships! Woha!, ground breaking!
Lets look beyond the ballancing factor of this because that's just too easy to see holes in. Lets take a look at just minor logic shall we? Here is my question. WHY IN THE NAME OF ALL THINGS HOLY DOES A RIFTER USE THE SAME SIZED RIGS AS A MOROS, THIS IS JUST STUPID!
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fivetide humidyear
Gallente
EXCESS10N
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Posted - 2008.10.20 15:50:00 -
[8]
the only annoying thing is the slight imbalance between shield rigs and armour rigs in terms of price.
else all is pretty good and rigs have added a bit of diversity or enhancement to ships.
oh and caused nano everything i suppose with polycarbons
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Archaic Emm
Amarr
O.M.E.R.T.A.
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Posted - 2008.10.20 15:57:00 -
[9]
I completely agree with Fistme, if they made different size rigs for different size ships, and match the material needed to make them along with it, it would bring rig prices in line with what your fitting them on..
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Shereza
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Posted - 2008.10.20 15:58:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Melody Elvisdottir
the other reason is that some of the most important components, as well as being needed for many rigs, are also quite rare, for every 50 charred micro circuits, you may get one melted cap console, thus driving up the price.
Which is actually the same reason why T2 ships are more expensive than CCP seems to have intended for them to be. Looking at the price difference between insurance payouts and T2 ship prices indicates that CCP intended for T2 ships to be cheaper just as looking at the price difference between rig BPOs and BPOs for ships/modules that cost as much as the rigs indicates that CCP intended for them to be cheaper than they are as well.
Seems that CCP forgot the nature of our market in both instances.
Originally by: Fistme
What they should have done is... Introduce different sized rigs for different sized ships! Woha!, ground breaking!
While that would've had the benefit of allowing for cheaper rigs for smaller ships and more expensive rigs for larger ships would it have been worth it? Especially given that at least a few people would then clamor for cap rechargers, sensor boosters, tracking disruptors, webbers, and so on in various sizes as a result?
Originally by: Fistme
Lets look beyond the ballancing factor of this because that's just too easy to see holes in. Lets take a look at just minor logic shall we? Here is my question. WHY IN THE NAME OF ALL THINGS HOLY DOES A RIFTER USE THE SAME SIZED RIGS AS A MOROS, THIS IS JUST STUPID!
Why does the moros use the same size cap recharger as a rookie ship? Why does a maller use the same size kinetic hardener as the archon?
How can an energized adaptive nano membrane that was taken off of an avatar fit on a punisher without turning it into a ping pong ball?
Some things in EVE take logic. For everything else there's willing suspension of disbelief.
____________________
Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval. |
KayO
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:11:00 -
[11]
rigs for the most part im not to bothered with, some of them are expensive but thats down to the player base not ccp, if ccp 'somehow' over night made rigs cheap people wouldn't bother to salvage, then there would be a shortage in supply with the same demand and prices would go back up again people would start to salvage again and we would be back to where we are now.
Boosters on the other hand are a differnt story, the synth and standard boosters are okish and quite easy to get but when you move onto the improved and strong versions getting the boosters you want is either very very hard and expensive or just damn near impossible, im not sure realy why this is but i would guess that there is a reason for it which could do with being looked at breifly.
just my 2cent :)
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Archaic Emm
Amarr
O.M.E.R.T.A.
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:11:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Shereza
While that would've had the benefit of allowing for cheaper rigs for smaller ships and more expensive rigs for larger ships would it have been worth it? Especially given that at least a few people would then clamor for cap rechargers, sensor boosters, tracking disruptors, webbers, and so on in various sizes as a result?
Strong point..
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K'uata Sayus
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Posted - 2008.10.20 19:02:00 -
[13]
A full set of T1 rig BPO's runs about 50-70M. You can also get single BPC's for specific rigs for 1-2M ea.
If you run a lot of missions and salvage all wrecks, eventually you have the raw material to manufacture any T1 rig.
A bit of investment and dedicated salvaging brings the actual cost down substantially.
This, of course, does not apply to T2 rigs.
EVERYONE SEEMS NORMAL UNTIL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM. |
Johann Callasan
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Posted - 2008.10.20 19:49:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Archaic Emm
I remember a while back when rigs/boosters were supposed to be introduced to the game, my comprehension was that they were supposed to be AFFORDABLE mods to ANY ship.
out of my ignorance of industry mechanics, why are rigs so dang overpriced? currently some of the most common used rigs are 25-40m isk, which is 50% price of most of the ships we use them on if not 500%+. Say a vaga, right around 75m if i remember right, you end up spending 60m on poly rigs if you want them.
in general economics, if something is in high demand, and has a steady supply as these rigs do, it usually drives the sellers to undercut eachother.
so, my guess is cost of making is still very high, or we're getting stiffed.
anyone have some insight?
i've always thought they were supposed to be cheap mods that can be used to 'customize' your ship to how you fly.
feedback?
The reason rigs cost what they do is due to the following factors:
1) Availability - Certain rigs are deemed by the playerbase to be just better/more worth it than others. Examples would be Polycarbon Engaine Casings, Capacitor Charge Circuits, and Core Field purgers for shield-tankers.
2) Part scarcity - Rigs take salvage, generally one 'rare" part, and two common parts. Some of the 'rare" parts (such as Alloyed Tritanium bars, used for polycarbs and cargo expansion rigs) have a very low drop rate - the most i ever got of them during a Extravaganza mission against angels was 5 during one run - and a Polycarb 1 housing takes 126 of them. this makes providing them on a large-scale basis only practical for corps that farm rats.
3) Sharing of parts - All rigs of a given type share parts to a large extent - for example Polycarbs and Cargo optimizers both want Tritanium Bars - and cargo rigs are nowhere near as popular as polycarb engine housings.
not to mention, of course, that the bottom may be abotu to drop out of polycarbs depending on wat the speed nerf does - so people don't want to make them and wind up wasting expensive parts (Yrit bars cost up to 250K APEICE depending on where you are in EvE) - and you have a scarcity o0f product that drives prices UP, as will ever happen in a market where prices are inthe control of the seller.
Hope that clears it up for you - you have scarcity of product, limited availability of components, and high demand - all three of which drive prices up, not down.
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Ghengis Tia
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Posted - 2008.10.20 20:01:00 -
[15]
AE Level IV was out of commision for a long while, Alloyed Trit Bars skyrocketed to 500k+. Now that its back, the prices have halved. The ATB haul from that mission is usually 30-40.
Rig slots on T1 frigates have always baffled me tho, and for that matter T1 cruisers. The concept of different size rigs certainly makes sense, tho.
Relatively inexpensive rigged frigs/cruisers would certainly spice up PvP, I would guess.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.10.20 21:06:00 -
[16]
I think it's fine. It gives richer people to spend money on without making it impossible for poorer players to fight.
Originally by: Catharacta
My CNR runs on salvager tears.
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vostok
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.20 22:06:00 -
[17]
All I have to say is ''free market'' and ''suck it up''.
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Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2008.10.21 00:24:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Archaic Emm
I completely agree with Fistme, if they made different size rigs for different size ships, and match the material needed to make them along with it, it would bring rig prices in line with what your fitting them on..
Yes. I'm perfectly happy with battleships fitting rigs that are as expensive as rigs aer now.
The problem is that it causes me acute physical pain that I almost never see a rigged frigate or cruiser. That's a balance problem right there.
If cruiser-sized rigs were 1/3 cost of battleship rigs, and frigat-sized rigs were 1/10 cost, the game would be a lot more fun. We'd have a lot more diversity.
As it is now, apart from salvage destroyers and industrials/transports/bargers/exhumers, people only ever rig battlecruiser and battleships.
Never frigates, nor cruisers.
That's wrong. That's not how the game ought to be.
--
Salpad |
Zeerover
Caldari
DeadSpace Exploration and Investigations
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Posted - 2008.10.21 00:56:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Salpad
Originally by: Archaic Emm
I completely agree with Fistme, if they made different size rigs for different size ships, and match the material needed to make them along with it, it would bring rig prices in line with what your fitting them on..
Yes. I'm perfectly happy with battleships fitting rigs that are as expensive as rigs aer now.
The problem is that it causes me acute physical pain that I almost never see a rigged frigate or cruiser. That's a balance problem right there.
If cruiser-sized rigs were 1/3 cost of battleship rigs, and frigat-sized rigs were 1/10 cost, the game would be a lot more fun. We'd have a lot more diversity.
As it is now, apart from salvage destroyers and industrials/transports/bargers/exhumers, people only ever rig battlecruiser and battleships.
Never frigates, nor cruisers.
That's wrong. That's not how the game ought to be.
Some people do rig their cruisers with the cheaper rigs. Why should "the top of the line" rigs be used on a throw away ship anyhow? To take a real world example: You'll never see an Alpina tuned BMW 316i, people that can afford the Alpina tuning stick it on a BMW 330 or M3. Same goes with cruisers, you stick the rigs on the HAC/HIC/Recon, not on the cheap T1 ship.
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Joss Sparq
Caldari
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.21 01:08:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Archaic Emm
Say a vaga, right around 75m if i remember right, you end up spending 60m on poly rigs if you want them.
I've bolded the key part for you.
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Warrio
Southern Cross Incorporated
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.21 01:38:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Archaic Emm
high demand
You said it chief.
sXe |
Terianna Eri
Amarr
Scrutari
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Posted - 2008.10.21 02:35:00 -
[22]
Lol 60mil for 2x polies
when I went and fit my curse they were 55mil each.
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Originally by: Arthur Frayn
How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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