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Par'Gellen
Gallente Tres Hombres Sev3rance
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Posted - 2008.10.27 12:21:00 -
[91]
Originally by: IR Scoutar Let me be a bastard and ilustrate how this should be handled UI wise
First we make a new button that could look like this : Link to Chribbas wonderful service please excuse the horrible shoop but im not designing the UI for you guys ... make it look like um a chain or something
Then we proceed with : Giving the button the rightclick option of "Enter Grouping mode"
Next folows the anti RSI function of convenience As you already stated weapons that arnt of the same type cannot be grouped together. That is why at the click of this button all those High slot modules should be grouped together into their possible groups. This could then be indicated on this button by a color and/or form change An aditional click on this button should unlink all High slot modules and set the icon back to its original state
Extra merrit section : Do not just shuffle all modules into 1 icon and give it the number of modules underneth it Leave all modules inplace but add the number of the GROUP they belong to (facilitating thermodynamics monitoring and i want to see my gun mentality)
similarly have the ui respond to the standard F button layout e.g. guns from f1-f6 neuts f7-f8 any f button from f1 to f6 could then activate the weapon group (remember unlinking is just 1 click away and manual linking is still possible) and f7 to f8 activate the neut group
As an extra extra bonus weapon groups could then be dragged over to switch place with the lesser ones in 1 go instead of multiple e.g. f1-f6 goes 2 up while f7-f8 goes all the way down with the simple hold and drag of 1 item of a group (visualy you see all of them going of course)
Extra extra extra tripple gold star merrit badge : Weapon staggerd activation available in the new buttons rightclick menu and other cool stuff
so much for the UI feel free to use this idea i declare it open source  ------------------------
Missiles: should never be of the im a giant missile type thats just not right in so many ways
THIS! |

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.10.27 22:23:00 -
[92]
Originally by: SeerinDarkness weapon grouping was originally nixed in beta and it was stated that it would Not be a added feature in order to promote people playing the game,and not macroing it, which with weapon grouping just got about 1000% easier. so i do not understand its addition now.
They officially declared the use of the G15 keyboard macro to assign F1-F8 to one key as not macroing and perfectly game-legal. Adding it as a feature is basically the same thing for people without a G15 and it allows some nice lag-reducing server-side optimisations. It's kind of how warp-to-zero was implemented due to the proliferation of instajump bookmark sets. Since a lot of people had the bookmarks, implementing it as a feature didn't change much except to remove them as a requirement for effective gameplay and reduce lag significantly. It's all good. |

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.28 12:30:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Tonto Auri on 28/10/2008 12:34:22
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium This is technically what is this design achieving at the time being. You group modules of the same type which is activated with one button. You save F2-F8 shortcut for other module activation, which is very convenient for quick keyboard access. On a more general picture, the point was not only to provide more player usability by allowing commands to be applied to several modules but also help with general performance.
Honestly, I can't see this as usability improvement.
Quote: We went for the current UI approach because having grouped modules shown in a "row link" instead of stack would have cluttered the module UI too much and not provide the free shortcut advantage explained before.
Display it in column link... (That is, scale stacked modules upward) Right now, <-- this is BAD. For people who are color- (red-) blind, it reads as "880 ammo". Please consider more clear indication of grouped weapon.
Quote: Yes you can if all limitations listed in the Blog are respected (no ammo, same exact type, same state). Just hold shift then drag and drop the modules and here you go. You cannot clear all groups with one button, just right-click each and select "Clear group" instead. Come on, it is only a few extra more clicks .
And this is wrong also in usability terms. If I have 3x 720mm Gallium, 2x 720mm Protorype on my myrm, it going to be not less than 2 groups, and if I was lucky looting pair of 720mm Scouts, it's going to be 3 groups, unless I sell these scouts and forget about 'em. Arguments, why shall I do that? And for the record, what blocking you from allowing *US, PLAYERS use grouping at will? If it can be grouped in server-side terms - let client use "server grouping". If it can not - let client divide it to smaller server groups, but DONT say "we have server restrictions applied to client" - this is flawed! Only real restriction ON CLIENT could be "the same ammo type", effectively allowing grouping of all T1 guns of the same ammo size, removing all these unnecessary complications AT CLIENT SIDE. -- Thanks CCP for cu |

Matthew
Caldari BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2008.10.28 19:02:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Matthew on 28/10/2008 19:02:06
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Display it in column link... (That is, scale stacked modules upward) Right now, <-- this is BAD. For people who are color- (red-) blind, it reads as "880 ammo". Please consider more clear indication of grouped weapon.
Column link would still eat up a lot of screen real-estate.
For this particular gripe, surely just right-aligning the ammo count and left-aligning the stack count would put enough space between the two for it to read as two different numbers? |

Grismar
Gallente The Establishment
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Posted - 2008.10.31 09:34:00 -
[95]
Clearly, I am not the only one who thinks this is overly complicated. All people ever wanted was a few customizable buttons added to the interface that would perform the same function as pressing a set of buttons.
This wouldn't have to entail any more than adding a row of smaller group icons above the guns, some way to configure these icons (which of the max 8 highslots is the button mapped to?) and some simple code that executes the same actions people were performing by hand before.
In fact, this simple solution would still lower server load, since only a single interaction will now travel from client to server, losing some of the possible overhead. Whether or not the simultaneous firing of the guns is dealt with cleverly server-side is not something you need to bother your users with. And we certainly don't need it showing in the interface.
This solution is really poorly designed and I would hate to see it ingame. A bit disappointing, for a feature request that has been around since Beta.
Your EVE IGB home: EVE Wiki, Explorer, Navigator |

zeho
Amarr DIVINE DIVIDE
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Posted - 2008.10.31 15:12:00 -
[96]
Opps!
I think I speak for the majority of people when I ask; "You're kidding right?"
Why would you (finally) address a clunky UI issue with another one?
We don't need "restrictions", we want easier/faster control without having to sacrifice module visability.
Add ammo changes to the rack (in addition to the reload we curently have) and leave the whole "grouping" thing as a optional way of management.
Loosing visability on modules and loosing the ability to activate individual mods is too big a drawback.
Please ensure the following:
Ability to stack/expand mods regardless of Group. Ability to Group without stacking. Ability to Group different types of weapons. Ability to change/reload ammo types in and out of Groups.
Having to "Group" weapons just to gain the ability to change ammo type is harsh. Just give us that ability first, then tell us about Grouping. 
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.31 15:21:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Grismar Clearly, I am not the only one who thinks this is overly complicated. All people ever wanted was a few customizable buttons added to the interface that would perform the same function as pressing a set of buttons.
This wouldn't have to entail any more than adding a row of smaller group icons above the guns, some way to configure these icons (which of the max 8 highslots is the button mapped to?) and some simple code that executes the same actions people were performing by hand before.
That would require a propper funktional and clever UI not that assortment of windows upon windows or if you dont like windows you can always RSI yourself to death with rightclick menus  i think the "ship info" thingie where the module controls are at took some special doing even so modifying that is even harder ..
only a guess thou
Originally by: Grismar
In fact, this simple solution would still lower server load, since only a single interaction will now travel from client to server, losing some of the possible overhead. Whether or not the simultaneous firing of the guns is dealt with cleverly server-side is not something you need to bother your users with. And we certainly don't need it showing in the interface.
naah that doesnt work that way.... to lower the server load you need to do exactly what they did UI and the actual comands going to the server are 2 diffrent things what the server does with it is even more diffrent to what goes on or so it should be... unfortunatly it isnt, its very much a programmers UI
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x psy
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Posted - 2008.11.01 20:52:00 -
[98]
Weapon Grouping = GOOD Uber missile = BAD
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Furian Giaume
Warhead Delivery Systems
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Posted - 2008.11.03 18:00:00 -
[99]
I got on Sisi and tested this functionality, and I must say it rocks! Having the eight lasers on my Coercer grouped to F1 is 'nice to have' for firing purposes, but where it REALLY shines is switching ammo. I simply don't change ammo during fights in the current system as it's too tedious and slow while busy with everything else going on. With the weapons grouped, changing ammo is easy and quite doable during battle; especially for lasers since they change crystals so quickly compared to other ammo types.
Only glitch I noticed is that sometimes the grouped weapon button would continuously flash, like when reloading ammo, even when it wasn't loading ammo. Had to empty ammo and reload it again to stop the flashing.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2008.11.04 20:23:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Matthew Column link would still eat up a lot of screen real-estate.
I'd say, it will eat not more than half of module circle size upward. I didn't mean exactly placing circles one over another, but something like "(O))))" (in either direction) would be clear enough to be useful, and I really don't mind if i can't see if I have it indicating all 8 of my grouped guns or only four. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
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ShadowRat
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Posted - 2008.11.05 09:26:00 -
[101]
Now please hear my SCREAM IN THE VOID...
I'm drone user - why you dont allow weapon grouping for DRONES! Now in fight i must choose target, choose drones to attack, manage to right click on it, choose order... and do it for 1! single attack and for keeping drones in line. There is plenty moments that you can make mistake or just wrong timing. Efect of this is that you loose you main weapon very easy.
Compare it to rack of any type of guns, missile launchers... choose target - press button or now just 1 button.
Please - make eg 1 buton for group that I can attach one order 'atack', or just button for this order to each drone... Nothing more.
Thx for hearing this. Have nice day.
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Suitonia
Gallente interimo
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Posted - 2008.11.05 11:06:00 -
[102]
Hey shadowrat you realise you can assign a 'all drones attack' hotkey from the shortcuts setting on the ESC menu right?
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xaja
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Posted - 2008.11.06 03:10:00 -
[103]
Edited by: xaja on 06/11/2008 03:14:59 Edited by: xaja on 06/11/2008 03:13:23 an excellent effort! We've been waiting long and patiently...
It seems the only real drawback are missiles against smart bombs, cause basically, if you've worked out a nice launch rythm to make it impossible to smart bomb a whole volley, missile people have to always ungroup their launchers before going to pvp.
UNLESS you add that other guy's suggestion, wich was a really good idea:
Weapon staggerd activation available in the new buttons rightclick menu
that is the best idea I saw in this whole thread :)
with the other aspects, I prefer how you've done it, more free F1 keys is just too good! ... _____________________________________ I'm Paper; Rock's fine, nerf Scissors |

Captian Firelog
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Posted - 2008.11.08 01:10:00 -
[104]
Weapon grouping seems kinda lame, but whatever.
Patch in general seems to be one of the lamest so far, total lack of content compared to the other major patches. Meh....
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BiggestT
Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.11.10 04:41:00 -
[105]
Excellent! Now titans might have to fit cpaital weaponry rather than smartbombs LOL (doubts it) EVE history
Missiles post-nerf |

TU144 TEPPOPNCT'CMEPTHNK
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:52:00 -
[106]
how do i group/stack the high slot modules ????
CCP made little baby jesus cry by nerfing ghost training
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Legendary Demon
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Posted - 2008.11.12 03:28:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Chribba Grouping Mining Lasers please! 
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Arissa Truard
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Posted - 2008.11.14 05:04:00 -
[108]
Since the release I tried grouping other fittings thinking it would be nice to say pair my Armor Reppers, Hardeners etc. I know it may be to late to request them be aloud to be grouped as well but for those of us who mainly run missions and like to keep said things always on it would be nice to be able to set a single key for them all. Even for PVPers it would be handy so after jumping through a gate, undocking, etc. yo can tap a key and on comes your defenses. 
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Bytaless
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Posted - 2008.11.14 16:43:00 -
[109]
How about the posibility to group similar mining lasers and strip miners. Say i have 8 miners II on my 8 slot mining ship. I want to group them all toghther so that i wont have to push f1 f2 f3 f4 f5 f6 f7 f8 every time i need to mine ?
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haz bro
Caldari Doom Guard Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.15 11:39:00 -
[110]
it does't work 100% for amarr with faction or T2 crystal. When you burn out a crystal and for example try to put in a new one that is still repackeged it will not install. If you run out of a surtain type and come one short for example that whole group becomes useless and you can't fire them at all, and have to ungroup it.
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WheatGrass
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.12.31 15:16:00 -
[111]
It seems that being able to take an entire group offline at once rather than unloading the group, breaking the grouping, and then putting each individual turret offline (in space) would result in improved cluster performance and an happy WheatGrass.
I'm interested in this ability for the sake of quick repair turn around times. Please consider. Thank you.
Thank you, also, for the weapon grouping feature. I'm getting much use out of it. 
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