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CCP Confirms: They Don't Care About Blasters!

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Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:14:00 - [31] anyways I'm posting ****loads, and tbh I hope that I've been acting stupid and whatsoever. I'll still be training large pulse spec just in case however
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:15:00 - [32] If it didn't work in your favour, you wouldn't be flying them, no? OFCOURSE everything has pros and cons but on average for gallente PVP the pros outweigh the cons, I do hope you're not going to argue that fact. While I can understand people not being happy when flying a short range ship and seeing web/MWD changed the emoragequit posting is just hilarious. Gallente had it good for a LONG LONG time and now thing change to a point where Gallente isn't the automatic/foolproof choice for PVP anymore. I'm sorry they're changing your uber race/ship, you can join the rest of us now.
Cmndr Griff Opinicus Operations	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:20:00 - [33] Originally by: Tzar'rim If it didn't work in your favour, you wouldn't be flying them, no? OFCOURSE everything has pros and cons but on average for gallente PVP the pros outweigh the cons, I do hope you're not going to argue that fact. While I can understand people not being happy when flying a short range ship and seeing web/MWD changed the emoragequit posting is just hilarious. Gallente had it good for a LONG LONG time and now thing change to a point where Gallente isn't the automatic/foolproof choice for PVP anymore. I'm sorry they're changing your uber race/ship, you can join the rest of us now. When was it foolproof? Must've missed the memo that day. I always thought travelling into blaster range being quite a nuiscance when up against pretty much all other 'close' range weapons. Whatever though, about time my race shone again.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:20:00 - [34] Originally by: Tzar'rim If it didn't work in your favour, you wouldn't be flying them, no? OFCOURSE everything has pros and cons but on average for gallente PVP the pros outweigh the cons, I do hope you're not going to argue that fact. While I can understand people not being happy when flying a short range ship and seeing web/MWD changed the emoragequit posting is just hilarious. Gallente had it good for a LONG LONG time and now thing change to a point where Gallente isn't the automatic/foolproof choice for PVP anymore. I'm sorry they're changing your uber race/ship, you can join the rest of us now. uber ship? hell blasterships are just a thread away from being totally crap. the only thing they have good is DPS, a thing that is easily surpasses by other races, at longer ranges actually. do tell a blaster ship that does over 1100 dps at 30km range. oh wait, don't need to tell me. it's called Raven
Jimer Lins Gallente Noir.	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:21:00 - [35] Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Originally by: Henry Teach /thread Confirming this. Confirming this confirmation.
vostok Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:22:00 - [36] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Orion GUardian Way to go op....you COULD just wait what comes and adapt or not? if you can use blasters you could use Rails, too for example...but whatever...its good the Blasterthron reign is over someone will come up with a new FOTM again.... ...altho I'm still atempting to see where the blasterthron was a FOTM in the first place... I'd say about 2005...
Haakelen Gallente Nation of Muppets	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:23:00 - [37] If you're going to argue that Gallente has been 'uber' in the last two years considering all the gimpings that have happened (Drone bandwidth, RSDs, Nos, Drone shield regen, etc), then you are dim. Specializing in your race's battleships and weapon systems (T2 guns, T2 heavy drones, BS 5, etc etc) is hardly FOTMing.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:24:00 - [38] Just get up close with your mwd, scramble them as they scramble you. Web won't be as effective but it will be making your blasters > their guns, no matter what type (more or less). Your neut/drones won't really help them either. So what's the problem? Relax a bit, get some perspective, take a deep breath. Take a walk in the park. Game balance issues always have existed, in all games, between all races/classes etc, it always will exist. And in EVE, having a character all maxed out (or near) will never be bad. I have 3 years training into Amarr and for more than half of that time we sucked - in general. But at a certain point/amount of skillpoints I got useful. Then we had the buff that sorted things out, that was just icing on the cake. I'm sure one day we will be on the bottom of the foodchain again, and frankly I don't care, the amount of sp I put into my class will always make me useful.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:24:00 - [39] Originally by: vostok Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Orion GUardian Way to go op....you COULD just wait what comes and adapt or not? if you can use blasters you could use Rails, too for example...but whatever...its good the Blasterthron reign is over someone will come up with a new FOTM again.... ...altho I'm still atempting to see where the blasterthron was a FOTM in the first place... I'd say about 2005... yeah arround that time afaik.
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:24:00 - [40] I fly blaster ships (and other ships too, crosstraining prevents the need to emorage quit after every patch because you just followed the fotm). And allthough they are atm not in need of a nerf, they are great ships allready for a long time. Now they will be less great, well get over it. I think blaster ships wont be obsolete.
vostok Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:28:00 - [41] Originally by: Haakelen If you're going to argue that Gallente has been 'uber' in the last two years considering all the gimpings that have happened (Drone bandwidth, RSDs, Nos, Drone shield regen, etc), then you are dim. Specializing in your race's battleships and weapon systems (T2 guns, T2 heavy drones, BS 5, etc etc) is hardly FOTMing. Damned good points, I have been flying megathrons since 2003. Blasterships died with the hp buff, and then all the other races have slowly been getting buffs, the most ridiculous one being the raven. Did you (all of you) know that a raven using 6 weapons and 3 damage mods, outdamages a megathron using 7 weapons and 3 damage mods while having capless weapons that shoot out to 30km and dont care about tracking... Ballance... Right...?!
Sunshine Grifter Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:28:00 - [42] Originally by: Henry Teach Originally by: Vendrin Budlight Presents- Real Men of Genius! Today we salute YOU, Mr. really annoying whiner man!(Mr. Really annoying whiner man) Only YOU can fully appreciate the mind-blowing tragedy that it would be if you quit the game due to some rule or aspect that you think is stupid.(They can't stand the thought of losing you !!) While others are too preoccupied with things like real life, you take your anger directly to the place where it will make the absolute least possible impact: An Internet discussion forum.(Loggin' on now!) Your unique eye for logic allows you to sling turds of doom every which way, and then brag about how you were RIGHT as soon as one of the pieces sticks to the wall û regardless of how many dozens fell limply to the floor before that.(See I told you sooooooo!!) And if some other idiot player has the gall to not be as incensed as you are, you unleash your fury down upon him with all the tenacity and mercilessness of a rabid pit bull with a tender buttock locked in its jaw (Total anonymity!) So keep clicking away, oh Marauder of the Mousepad. Because when the results you so desire finally come about years from now, you can say it was because YOU demanded it." (Mr. Really annoying whiner man!) /thread this.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:29:00 - [43] Originally by: Misanth Just get up close with your mwd, scramble them as they scramble you. Web won't be as effective but it will be making your blasters > their guns, no matter what type (more or less). Your neut/drones won't really help them either. So what's the problem? Relax a bit, get some perspective, take a deep breath. Take a walk in the park. Game balance issues always have existed, in all games, between all races/classes etc, it always will exist. And in EVE, having a character all maxed out (or near) will never be bad. I have 3 years training into Amarr and for more than half of that time we sucked - in general. But at a certain point/amount of skillpoints I got useful. Then we had the buff that sorted things out, that was just icing on the cake. I'm sure one day we will be on the bottom of the foodchain again, and frankly I don't care, the amount of sp I put into my class will always make me useful. wish it was that simple. blasters are a 1-trick pony: you rely on massive damage dealt at point blank range. for that you need speed, a thing that is being killed in this patch, and it is necessary to be able to get to that sweet spot of 5km range where you can unleash the full potential of your guns. what this patch brings is, slower movement, and an effective, altho indirect, nerf to tracking in the order of 400%(?) due to the web nerf. this happens to the blasterships, while pulse ships will still be able to hit for full damage at ranges that will hit the 40km mark, and torp ships that will start to put the hurt on you at 30km range. blaster ships can only do good damage at 10km range. now considering that a good fight for a Bthron (or other blaster ship actually) means to pretty much land in a 5km radius of your enemy, something that happens as much as once in a blue moon, then you see what is my concern.
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:32:00 - [44] And how often does a laser ship land at 40km of their enemy and how often do they have a 40km scram fitted? To prevent enemy from running the average laser ship also likes a web on the target.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:33:00 - [45] Originally by: Furb Killer And how often does a laser ship land at 40km of their enemy and how often do they have a 40km scram fitted? To prevent enemy from running the average laser ship also likes a web on the target. as often as hypothetical 1vs1's happens in EVE nowadays, tbh.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:34:00 - [46] Originally by: Grimpak wish it was that simple. blasters are a 1-trick pony: you rely on massive damage dealt at point blank range. for that you need speed, a thing that is being killed in this patch, and it is necessary to be able to get to that sweet spot of 5km range where you can unleash the full potential of your guns. what this patch brings is, slower movement, and an effective, altho indirect, nerf to tracking in the order of 400%(?) due to the web nerf. this happens to the blasterships, while pulse ships will still be able to hit for full damage at ranges that will hit the 40km mark, and torp ships that will start to put the hurt on you at 30km range. blaster ships can only do good damage at 10km range. now considering that a good fight for a Bthron (or other blaster ship actually) means to pretty much land in a 5km radius of your enemy, something that happens as much as once in a blue moon, then you see what is my concern. Aye, being fired on while travelling is not sexy. But there's nothing saying you can't pick your fights. At 40km they can't scramble you (unless it's an Arazu, or they got bubbles down.. in before nitpicks). Alot of situations in EVE is about chosing your battles. You won't engage ships you can't win against. Being Amarr for so long will, if anything, teach you to do that. In fleets? Well, if you're short range fleet, you will get warp-ins. Else your fleet sucks, right? In small scale? That's another deal, but simply put, not all fits are useful in all situations. It's a choice you make when undocking. Why would I go out in a geddon when everyone fitted ecm/dampeners and nos? It's still speculations tho, and the reason I even posted was because I just had a similar discussion with some friends in another MMO. We'll always have talks like that. Replace race/class X and weapontype Y with whatever and it can be inserted in most situations.
Haakelen Gallente Nation of Muppets	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:34:00 - [47] The pulse/torp ships don't rely on being able to burn up to things to survive. It wouldn't be so horrible if EHP gankfits weren't the only practical way to roll in a battleship these days.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:36:00 - [48] I wonder why every time we have had these threads lately no one compares their "sucky" battleships to minmatar counterparts. I just hope that finally using active tanking and mobility has real advantages against ships with maximum armor buffer and trimarks.
Xenomorphea Gallente	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:36:00 - [49] Note to trolls: countering an argument with "adapt or die", "stop whining" and "can I have your stuff" does not exactly make your intellectual faculties shine ... not does it prove an argument wrong. If you have nothing constructive to say, please ignore the thread. Those who are unable to comprehend the can of worms the new "speed nerf" causes to blasterboat setups, probably need to spend more time on Sisi. Of course, it affects all other races and ships as well (to different extents), but due to the extremely short ranges blasterboats are forced to fight at, and the resulting high transversal speeds of targets, the problem is most pronounced and critical with blaster setups. - Crappy MWD speed = cannot get at optimal fast enouh, take too much damage from other type of weapons (especially Pulse Lasers and Torps). - 60% webber = are you kidding me? Smaller targets have too much tranversal even when webbed, you cannot hit jack with large blasters. And yes, a battleship (and especially a blasterboat) is supposed to waste anything smaller within web range. That is their role. That is why it takes over 2 years to max the skills for it. - MWD reactivation delay = once you approach your first target and maybe manage to kill it, you can sit there like a dead duck as you cannot move anymore. Plain stupid. And yes, I have already "adapted" anyway, I started x-training Amarr 2 months ago after experiencing the first implementation of this useless nerf, while my other char. already crosstrained Minmatar some time ago. I did it "just in case", hoping CCP would not be so obtuse to ruin some of the best and most fun ships in game, but there you go ... they WILL ruin them, as they think "they are fine". Honestly, if I could choose between keeping the ultra-fast, almost uncatchable Vagabonds leaving the blasterboats alone, or nerf the vagas and kill all blasterboats, I would definitely go for "don't touch anything" policy. If there is anything requiring some rethinking, nerfing and ev. better counters, that is ECM. Counter for nano-ships exists already: Rapier/Huginns. Heavy neutralizers. Overloaded Webbers. Say no more. But as there has been always a bunch of whiners crying "ohh, nerf the vaga", now we landed in this deep pool of ****. -Xeno
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:37:00 - [50] Originally by: Misanth Originally by: Grimpak wish it was that simple. blasters are a 1-trick pony: you rely on massive damage dealt at point blank range. for that you need speed, a thing that is being killed in this patch, and it is necessary to be able to get to that sweet spot of 5km range where you can unleash the full potential of your guns. what this patch brings is, slower movement, and an effective, altho indirect, nerf to tracking in the order of 400%(?) due to the web nerf. this happens to the blasterships, while pulse ships will still be able to hit for full damage at ranges that will hit the 40km mark, and torp ships that will start to put the hurt on you at 30km range. blaster ships can only do good damage at 10km range. now considering that a good fight for a Bthron (or other blaster ship actually) means to pretty much land in a 5km radius of your enemy, something that happens as much as once in a blue moon, then you see what is my concern. Aye, being fired on while travelling is not sexy. But there's nothing saying you can't pick your fights. At 40km they can't scramble you (unless it's an Arazu, or they got bubbles down.. in before nitpicks). Alot of situations in EVE is about chosing your battles. You won't engage ships you can't win against. Being Amarr for so long will, if anything, teach you to do that. In fleets? Well, if you're short range fleet, you will get warp-ins. Else your fleet sucks, right? In small scale? That's another deal, but simply put, not all fits are useful in all situations. It's a choice you make when undocking. Why would I go out in a geddon when everyone fitted ecm/dampeners and nos? It's still speculations tho, and the reason I even posted was because I just had a similar discussion with some friends in another MMO. We'll always have talks like that. Replace race/class X and weapontype Y with whatever and it can be inserted in most situations. true in all those points, but tbh the changes seem to promote more and more the same playstyle I seen a few years back (massive sniping BS fleets), with the addition of remote repping circle jerking and cap ships that is. and with that I fear that together with the redundancy of smaller ships it also comes the redundancy of short range combat AND small-scale warfare.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:38:00 - [51] Originally by: Destination SkillQueue I wonder why every time we have had these threads lately no one compares their "sucky" battleships to minmatar counterparts. I just hope that finally using active tanking and mobility has real advantages against ships with maximum armor buffer and trimarks. minmatar sucks by default tbh but honestly, they need a boost too
Leviathan9 Gallente Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:40:00 - [52] Edited by: Leviathan9 on 23/10/2008 21:42:36 Originally by: Grimpak do tell a blaster ship that does over 1100 dps at 30km range. oh wait, don't need to tell me. it's called Raven Well i can get around 1.1k dps at 25k in my mega with Null, but my skills are maxed out.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:42:00 - [53] Originally by: Grimpak true in all those points, but tbh the changes seem to promote more and more the same playstyle I seen a few years back (massive sniping BS fleets), with the addition of remote repping circle jerking and cap ships that is. and with that I fear that together with the redundancy of smaller ships it also comes the redundancy of short range combat AND small-scale warfare. I'm hoping the changes will actually make small scale PvP be scaled very well after ship sizes. Missiles will always hit, drones will catch all ships, in general ships will go slower. A sensible change on the missiles and drones would be to make sure bigger weapons really struggle to hit smaller ships. That'd mean smaller ships get a nice little boost and bigger ships will want to fly with support. Perhaps I'm an optimistic dreamer, and yah the stuff isn't even out yet so it's all speculation. But I believe it has potential to balance things. I won't argue against your points tho, they're sensible and it's quite possible things will go down the drain. I just hope it won't.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:44:00 - [54] Originally by: Leviathan9 Edited by: Leviathan9 on 23/10/2008 21:42:36 Originally by: Grimpak do tell a blaster ship that does over 1100 dps at 30km range. oh wait, don't need to tell me. it's called Raven Well i can get around 1.1k dps at 25k in my mega with Null, but my skills are maxed out. yeah, and ravens can do that with less SP. see my point?
Leviathan9 Gallente Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:45:00 - [55] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Leviathan9 Edited by: Leviathan9 on 23/10/2008 21:42:36 Originally by: Grimpak do tell a blaster ship that does over 1100 dps at 30km range. oh wait, don't need to tell me. it's called Raven Well i can get around 1.1k dps at 25k in my mega with Null, but my skills are maxed out. yeah, and ravens can do that with less SP. see my point? Aye. I wish CCP didn't have to add mass to any of the bs's, then atleast a blaster mega wouldn't be as badly nerfed.
Haakelen Gallente Nation of Muppets	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:47:00 - [56] I couldn't give less of a ** about Ravens. They have their role and fill it. I just don't see what's so *ing unreasonable about being able to actually use* blasters.
Arvald Caldari Ninjas N Pirates	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:47:00 - [57] huh thats weird, because on the test server my blaster rokh, blaster megathron and other smaller blaster boats (deimos thorax brutix ect) work jsut as well as they used to, so how about shut up. just because you cant turn down the suck and adapt dosent mean something sucks merely that you do
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:48:00 - [58] Originally by: Misanth I'm hoping the changes will actually make small scale PvP be scaled very well after ship sizes. Missiles will always hit, drones will catch all ships, in general ships will go slower. A sensible change on the missiles and drones would be to make sure bigger weapons really struggle to hit smaller ships. That'd mean smaller ships get a nice little boost and bigger ships will want to fly with support. Perhaps I'm an optimistic dreamer, and yah the stuff isn't even out yet so it's all speculation. But I believe it has potential to balance things. I won't argue against your points tho, they're sensible and it's quite possible things will go down the drain. I just hope it won't. well, I just think that they are using sledgehammer approaches to these issues, that's all. nano-***gotery only really affected a very select group of ships, and with the usage of very expensive equipment (polys, full sets of HG snakes). something that could be solved by nerfing just that high-level equipment. as for things going down the drain... well considering CCP's track record of late, I wouldn't hold my breath
Pandora Pirinello	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:49:00 - [59] Edited by: Pandora Pirinello on 23/10/2008 21:51:00 If you can fly a t2 fitted mega you can cross train amarr in 60 days or so for BS + large pulse II, i suggest you get going while you have time... (i am) Edit: at least we still have the taranis right? unless they break it by putting their filthy uneducated dev hands upon its pristine stats i wont feel the need to rage quit.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:51:00 - [60] Edited by: Grimpak on 23/10/2008 21:51:08 Originally by: Arvald huh thats weird, because on the test server my blaster rokh, blaster megathron and other smaller blaster boats (deimos thorax brutix ect) work jsut as well as they used to, so how about shut up. just because you cant turn down the suck and adapt dosent mean something sucks merely that you do oh I did adapted. started adapting by training all 4 races frigs, cruisers and BS'es to 5 and weaponry systems to 5 aswell a few years ago. still training on those T2 L guns (T2 pulses) however, but it will be solved by the time these changes hit.

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