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To the local nerf complainers, I give you:

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sg3s Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.27 23:22:00 - [61] Oh god the OP is dumb, I stopped reading after he started explaining a 360 degree scan at 14.3 AU would be enough.... Because it's not. You're really stupid or a troll, stop posting forever.
Malka Badi'a Suffoco Noctis	Posted - 2008.10.27 23:28:00 - [62] Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 27/10/2008 23:34:03 Originally by: sg3s Oh god the OP is dumb, I stopped reading after he started explaining a 360 degree scan at 14.3 AU would be enough.... Because it's not. A 360 degree scan once you undock is plenty to give you a heads up of a waiting distant gatecamp. You're off their onboard scanner and so are they. That 99% of the time means it's safe to undock the rest of your group and warp off unless you have a covertops+logoffski. Which isn't even a valid counterpoint. Trolls go home. Elaborate your opinion, because it's worthless otherwise.
sg3s Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.27 23:46:00 - [63] Originally by: Malka Badi'a Originally by: sg3s Oh god the OP is dumb, I stopped reading after he started explaining a 360 degree scan at 14.3 AU would be enough.... Because it's not. A 360 degree scan once you undock is plenty to give you a heads up of a waiting distant gatecamp. You're off their onboard scanner and so are they. That 99% of the time means it's safe to undock unless you have a covertops+logoffski. Which isn't even a valid counterpoint. Trolls go home. Elaborate your opinion, because it's worthless otherwise. No, you're worthless. 1. Cloaking ships are very real, do you even live in 0.0? A force recon gang is not unusual, and they're definitly not weak, especially in a gang... Imagine this: 6 people in system, only they're all in cloaking ships and camp the station, cloaked, obviously, for the suprise... You log in and undock, do your **ing worthless scan, and decide it's cleak... then you hip warp, the cloaked ships have been coming closer (yes you can come fairly close in a cloaked ship even if the station is already at 0), and see you align... they uncloak, lock, and kill you before you get a chance to redock... 2. Some systems are huge... up to 160AU, if you would warp anywhere outside of 14AU you would be going in blind unless you already have someone there for you to scout... THERE IS NO WAY SOMEONE WITH A SINGLE ACCOUNT CAN ALWAYS HAVE SOMEONE ELSE WITH HIM FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF SCOUTING. 3. Even if you're frantically hitting the scan button all the time, 14 AU is just not enough, such distances are cleared fairly fast, especially in frigates/intis... It will be (too) easy to miss a frigate coming right at you... 4. Solo doing anything is now not possible due to the very realistic fact you will miss a covert ops (or even a whole covert gang) coming into the system, even if you are within scan range of the gate... This means you cannot rat, mine, or do complexes without someone else constantly watching gates and gathering intel, not to mention that most systems have more than one gate, and usually they are more than 14 AU from each other... Didn't we want to make 0.0 more interesting? Oh I know, lets make it more dangerous and push all favors to 'the attackers'. Don't be wrong, I would also like these mechanics from another side, because I can fly force recons etc, and I like flying them... But I'm also very dependent on going alone to make isk ratting... Originally by:** Tarminic Because even when EVE sucks, it sucks less than every other MMO out there.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.27 23:53:00 - [64] Ugh, I 100% fully agreed with a goonie, im going to wash my mouth now. - - - Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you can understand our goal, disagree with our solution and offer a solution that is equal or better your opinion has a better chance of being heard...
Malka Badi'a Suffoco Noctis	Posted - 2008.10.27 23:56:00 - [65] Originally by: sg3s 1. Cloaking ships are very real, do you even live in 0.0? A force recon gang is not unusual, and they're definitly not weak, especially in a gang... Imagine this: And? I fly in 0.0 all the time, and that isn't the only kind of ship flying around. Your example is like saying "WHY ARE WE BUILDING HOUSES OUT OF METAL, IT CAN MELT AT HIGH TEMPERATURES". Well, yeah, but that's obviously a direct counter. Isn't it? Quote: 2. Some systems are huge... up to 160AU, if you would warp anywhere outside of 14AU you would be going in blind unless you already have someone there for you to scout... THERE IS NO WAY SOMEONE WITH A SINGLE ACCOUNT CAN ALWAYS HAVE SOMEONE ELSE WITH HIM FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF SCOUTING. I don't know about you, but I know how to warp 100k to the gate, I also have 10AU boomkarks outside the gates I tend to visit the most. Why don't you? You are in 0.0, right? Quote: Don't be wrong, I would also like these mechanics from another side, because I can fly force recons etc, and I like flying them... But I'm also very dependent on going alone to make isk ratting... And now we get to the meat of it, your honesty. All of your above arguments are valid only if you didn't know about the counterpoints ahead of time. Recon fleets are a direct counter to scan, knight takes pawn. Avoiding ship-camps without a local is not difficult, and it requires nothing more than warping to a planet near the gate at a specific K, or using pre-made bookmarks. The meat isn't anything you've said so far. It's that you'd be inconvinenced as a solo player. That's all I needed to know, thank you for your opinion. ---------
Val Erian Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia	Posted - 2008.10.28 00:10:00 - [66] *esides, you can always check "pilots active in the last 30 minutes in this system" if you roll with the knowledge that everyone* is an enemy Thats bull** if CCP removes local while your in the system yet somehow you have the information about how many people are active there? Even if its not detalied how does th emap get this yet you dont in system. Nerf the map to make it totaly impossible to tell who is where is the only logical solution. Let people scan each and every system they enter with no idea who has been where for the ideal playing enviroment. Spend hours moving through 3-4 5 systems finding no one. It will be great.
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.28 00:17:00 - [67] Quote: Thats bull**** if CCP removes local while your in the system yet somehow you have the information about how many people are active there? Even if its not detalied how does th emap get this yet you dont in system. Nerf the map to make it totaly impossible to tell who is where is the only logical solution. Let people scan each and every system they enter with no idea who has been where for the ideal playing enviroment. Spend hours moving through 3-4 5 systems finding no one. It will be great.ugh So while you're at it, remove all map information. Coz those 20 podkills in that 0.0 choke certainly wasn't a mass ibis suicide. Remove FW info. Remove Alliance Sovereignity info. Remove ships destroyed in the last hour. Remove ships destroyeyd in the last 24 hours. etc. All these things show the presence of people in-system. Personally, the amount of times I've checked "pilots in system in the last half hour" and it's said 0, and I've jumped headlong into a gatecamp, I find this pretty reasonable.
sg3s Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.28 00:22:00 - [68] Originally by: Malka Badi'a Originally by: sg3s 1. Cloaking ships are very real, do you even live in 0.0? A force recon gang is not unusual, and they're definitly not weak, especially in a gang... Imagine this: And? I fly in 0.0 all the time, and that isn't the only kind of ship flying around. Your example is like saying "WHY ARE WE BUILDING HOUSES OUT OF METAL, IT CAN MELT AT HIGH TEMPERATURES". Well, yeah, but that's obviously a direct counter. Isn't it? Quote: 2. Some systems are huge... up to 160AU, if you would warp anywhere outside of 14AU you would be going in blind unless you already have someone there for you to scout... THERE IS NO WAY SOMEONE WITH A SINGLE ACCOUNT CAN ALWAYS HAVE SOMEONE ELSE WITH HIM FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF SCOUTING. I don't know about you, but I know how to warp 100k to the gate, I also have 10AU boomkarks outside the gates I tend to visit the most. Why don't you? You are in 0.0, right? Quote: Don't be wrong, I would also like these mechanics from another side, because I can fly force recons etc, and I like flying them... But I'm also very dependent on going alone to make isk ratting... And now we get to the meat of it, your honesty. All of your above arguments are valid only if you didn't know about the counterpoints ahead of time. Recon fleets are a direct counter to scan, knight takes pawn. Avoiding ship-camps without a local is not difficult, and it requires nothing more than warping to a planet near the gate at a specific K, or using pre-made bookmarks. The meat isn't anything you've said so far. It's that you'd be inconvinenced as a solo player. That's all I needed to know, thank you for your opinion. Flaws: 0.0 is huge, and as you should be able to imagine I do not keep tons of bookmarks every 10 AU... Ok, I do, for the core systems I use, but in fact, I use tens of systems on a day, and almost every day i visit a system I've never been before or rarely visit.... Gates are not always close to a planet, or a celestial object for that matter... If you warp to a gate at 100k... and there is a bubble, you will get sucked in, and you will be **ed... Gangs make good use of the knoledge that not everyone has a bookmark at a gate to scan them out, even then, I'm fairly sure you can cloak a normal dictor... I know I take use of it... And did I mention cloaks would be mandatory? Since you're basically be 100% invisible for everyone, and you make sure you have some covert ops in gang to tackle for the while that the bigger ships need to wait to lock... It's the ideal world for any attacker (and since you're stupid I'll just mention that that is NOT RIGHT, even when I'm often the attacker myself)... Please try to look at it from other perspectives, and for the love of baby jesus don't come back to me with idiotic arguments, it just makes you look stupid. Originally by:** Tarminic Because even when EVE sucks, it sucks less than every other MMO out there.
Malka Badi'a Suffoco Noctis	Posted - 2008.10.28 00:37:00 - [69] Originally by: sg3s It's the ideal world for any attacker (and since you're stupid I'll just mention that that is NOT RIGHT, even when I'm often the attacker myself)... Right now it's an ideal world for any miner/pver. They know right away when someone is in, right away when a system is unsafe. Again, you're trying to give a pity party to people who want to try to do 0.0 without making preparations (such as bookmarking and corp/fleet's that are scouting already during normal routes). Step it up and adapt, honestly. At this point in time you're just complaining that 0.0 is going to be too much work for you and others. And save the ad hominem attacks for a different thread, it's really unbecoming of goon. ---------
Polly Prissypantz Dingleberry Appreciation Society	Posted - 2008.10.28 09:48:00 - [70] Originally by: Malka Badi'a At this point in time you're just complaining that 0.0 is going to be too much work for you and others. This is it in a nutshell. And I like your choice of word, because that what it is. It's work. What you're basically saying is that you want Eve to be turned into a day job, only without the pay or the benefits. I have the perfect game for you to play if Eve local is making your gaming experience too exciting: Eve Online: Malka's Version
sg3s Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.28 10:02:00 - [71] Well, I wasn't interested in keeping this discussion going, but since it was bumped to the top again, why not. At this time there isn't a single argument to justify the removal of the local channel, because there are tons of game-breaking reasons to counter any argument. You shouldnÆt even have to think hard to come up with some as IÆve tried to do in my previous posts. The 14 AU scanner is not sufficient at this time, and I know CCP recognizes that problem as well (luckily). Just that people that say it is sufficient **** me of, in my eyes you just look stupid when suggesting it. The local ænerfÆ will not be a blunt removal of the channels current functionality, but mechanics that will substitute for that functionality or at least a large part of it, and, knowing CCP, it will add new functionality to eve (read: probably a method to counter cloaked ships or some way of detecting there are cloakers somewhere in the system). DonÆt try to justify the removal of local just yetà LetÆs wait with these futile discussions until we know whatÆs coming for us. Cloaking-online wouldnÆt be a very fun game for the most of us.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2008.10.28 10:18:00 - [72] Originally by: Lustralis -snip- I'll have you write my points next time. Tried to mention it as well, if there was an easy solution it would've been done a long time ago. It's pretty basic right now. Defenders need a defensive tool, but local is too powerful (it's bloody impossible to lose a ratting ship if you have half a brain, I never lost one myself and I lived in 0.0 or low sec since day one). At the same time attackers need a viable tool to find people. At the same time we want to discourage blobbing (neither CCP nor players like that). Doubt anyone can come up with a universal solution that'll make everyone happy. Todays situation isn't optimal, but it's not gamebreaking either. Stupid people still lose ships so hunters get their prey, even tho the tools is on the defenders side atm.
Big Zulu Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.10.28 10:22:00 - [73] Coooooool! Looks like someone was reading your post while you were typing it but then his eyes started bleeding and dripped all over the text!?!?!!!!11elevenoneoneone11!1
Lazuran Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.10.28 10:28:00 - [74] Local nerf would have been a good idea many years ago, now 5 years later it's yet another unnecessary radical change that ****es off people. It's nice to have devs with "visions", but ffs fix the damn bugs first (wrong standings icons in local when logging on and for guests in stations when they dock/log on have been in the game for 2 years now?).
Malka Badi'a Suffoco Noctis	Posted - 2008.10.28 11:55:00 - [75] Originally by: Lazuran Local nerf would have been a good idea many years ago, now 5 years later it's yet another unnecessary radical change that ****es off people. It's nice to have devs with "visions", but ffs fix the damn bugs first (wrong standings icons in local when logging on and for guests in stations when they dock/log on have been in the game for 2 years now?). This.
DaXes Halleck Amarr Industrial Legion of EVE	Posted - 2008.10.28 13:46:00 - [76] Originally by: Last Wolf They can completely remove local for all I care, with one conditions. GIVE STATIONS A FREAKING WINDOW SO I CAN LOOK OUTSIDE! Thank you Agreed, at least to a scanner window to use while docked... what kind of station wouldn't have a scanner for defence. 14 AU 360¦ scanner like the ship at least.
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.10.28 13:52:00 - [77] at first I thought this is quite usefull ... then I thought a little harder ... 1. cloaked ships 2. afaik local will still show pilot count 3. none of this gives you info on the pilots, just the ships OK it's 0.0 so you can be paranoid and take everybody for an enemy ... but still useless ... the information gathering mechanics need a complete change ... and stations need windows or a kind of tactical overview while docked ... --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Demitria Fernir Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.10.28 14:13:00 - [78] OP whine noted and discarded, move on and keep whining _______________________________________________ 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101 I will Conquer My Signature Somewhere in the future 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101
Turin Caldari Eternity INC.	Posted - 2008.10.28 16:23:00 - [79] Originally by: sg3s Originally by: Malka Badi'a Originally by: sg3s Oh god the OP is dumb, I stopped reading after he started explaining a 360 degree scan at 14.3 AU would be enough.... Because it's not. A 360 degree scan once you undock is plenty to give you a heads up of a waiting distant gatecamp. You're off their onboard scanner and so are they. That 99% of the time means it's safe to undock unless you have a covertops+logoffski. Which isn't even a valid counterpoint. Trolls go home. Elaborate your opinion, because it's worthless otherwise. No, you're worthless. 1. Cloaking ships are very real, do you even live in 0.0? A force recon gang is not unusual, and they're definitly not weak, especially in a gang... Imagine this: 6 people in system, only they're all in cloaking ships and camp the station, cloaked, obviously, for the suprise... You log in and undock, do your ****ing worthless scan, and decide it's cleak... then you hip warp, the cloaked ships have been coming closer (yes you can come fairly close in a cloaked ship even if the station is already at 0), and see you align... they uncloak, lock, and kill you before you get a chance to redock... 2. Some systems are huge... up to 160AU, if you would warp anywhere outside of 14AU you would be going in blind unless you already have someone there for you to scout... THERE IS NO WAY SOMEONE WITH A SINGLE ACCOUNT CAN ALWAYS HAVE SOMEONE ELSE WITH HIM FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF SCOUTING. 3. Even if you're frantically hitting the scan button all the time, 14 AU is just not enough, such distances are cleared fairly fast, especially in frigates/intis... It will be (too) easy to miss a frigate coming right at you... 4. Solo doing anything is now not possible due to the very realistic fact you will miss a covert ops (or even a whole covert gang) coming into the system, even if you are within scan range of the gate... This means you cannot rat, mine, or do complexes without someone else constantly watching gates and gathering intel, not to mention that most systems have more than one gate, and usually they are more than 14 AU from each other... Didn't we want to make 0.0 more interesting? Oh I know, lets make it more dangerous and push all favors to 'the attackers'. Don't be wrong, I would also like these mechanics from another side, because I can fly force recons etc, and I like flying them... But I'm also very dependent on going alone to make isk ratting... what he goon said here. Also keep in mind. This is just something they have on test. That does not mean it is going to go live.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.10.28 16:37:00 - [80] Originally by: Polly Prissypantz Originally by: Malka Badi'a At this point in time you're just complaining that 0.0 is going to be too much work for you and others. This is it in a nutshell. And I like your choice of word, because that what it is. It's work. What you're basically saying is that you want Eve to be turned into a day job, only without the pay or the benefits. I have the perfect game for you to play if Eve local is making your gaming experience too exciting: Eve Online: Malka's Version Grow a backbone. Go ratting in a group (I already do this) and you cannot get jumped by that solo recon. You will still have your intel comming in from your allience as people pass things on gates or scan them out (if you dont then why are you in 0.0 to start with?) Got a mining op? get protection and organise a watch on the gates. Only fools will be hurt by this change.
Mag's MASS	Posted - 2008.10.28 16:37:00 - [81] Originally by: Malka Badi'a Originally by: Lazuran Local nerf would have been a good idea many years ago, now 5 years later it's yet another unnecessary radical change that es off people. It's nice to have devs with "visions", but ffs fix the damn bugs first (wrong standings icons in local when logging on and for guests in stations when they dock/log on have been in the game for 2 years now?). This. So he's against it and you agree with him? I agree with sg3s also. Mag's Originally by: Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you.
Black Leather	Posted - 2008.10.28 16:57:00 - [82] Edited by: Black Leather on 28/10/2008 16:57:36 1) Remove Local in 0.0 2) All the manly men run screaming for Empire like little girls. 3) I move into the now empty 0.0 and declare myself Queen of the Universe. 4) All bow before me
sg3s Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.28 17:24:00 - [83] Originally by: Black Leather Edited by: Black Leather on 28/10/2008 16:57:36 1) Remove Local in 0.0 2) All the manly men run screaming for Empire like little girls. 3) I move into the now empty 0.0 and declare myself Queen of the Universe. 4) All bow before me I would move my moneymaking buisness to empire for sure... Then i would go roam in 0.0 in recon fleets... Theres just one problem with this... We will be up against other recon fleets... I think you can imagine how boring that would be eh? And if anyone ever uncloaks the battle will be won by the fleet that uncloak the most ships And I only bow for DREDD, my CEO.
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2008.10.28 17:52:00 - [84] While I surely like the idea of having local in delayed mode... Quote: 1.) Undocking. This local change wouldn't change the fact you'll need an alt to undock, in many cases. Also some brave people still fly without 20 man gangs. Some stations also push you far away from docking range... 2,3 and 4. Defensive side (counting out war parties prepared to fight) is going to suffer most, regardless of numbers. If you're searching targets you're prepared to do some work using scanner and have agile/cloaking scouting ship(s) which can do it in comfortable way than hulk or raven trying to earn some living. Just my 5 cents. :p
SC Redent	Posted - 2008.10.28 18:12:00 - [85] Originally by: Fulber Originally by: Malka Badi'a You really shouldn't be mining solo in 0.0, nor should you be rat hunting solo. You're spot on there. I can't believe so many people are so stupid and not running L4 missions in Motsu. Maybe this local change will fix this sad state of affairs. Not at all. I agree that mining in 0.0 solo is a bad bad idea. But Ninja Ratting is a great way to make isk and actually quite safe. People just need to be prepaired for gangs (aka cloak)
Tappits Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.28 18:32:00 - [86] Originally by: Malka Badi'a I don't know about you, but I know how to warp 100k to the gate, I also have 10AU boomkarks outside the gates I tend to visit the most. Why don't you? You are in 0.0, right? And now we get to the meat of it, your honesty. All of your above arguments are valid only if you didn't know about the counterpoints ahead of time. Recon fleets are a direct counter to scan, knight takes pawn. Avoiding ship-camps without a local is not difficult, and it requires nothing more than warping to a planet near the gate at a specific K, or using pre-made bookmarks. The meat isn't anything you've said so far. It's that you'd be inconvinenced as a solo player. That's all I needed to know, thank you for your opinion. you seem to miss the point as for your BM's lol yer lets go back to the time were every one needs 10000000's of BM's do you rat in 0.0? or have you got an empire alt? people SHOULD not have to have 4 accounts to play eve there is nothing you have put that makes any sence on the other side of the coin, going now to solo rat in 0.0 for 20mill per/h ---------------------------------------------- Pro BOB????? I fail At forums
Polly Prissypantz Dingleberry Appreciation Society	Posted - 2008.10.28 19:18:00 - [87] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Polly Prissypantz Originally by: Malka Badi'a At this point in time you're just complaining that 0.0 is going to be too much work for you and others. This is it in a nutshell. And I like your choice of word, because that what it is. It's work. What you're basically saying is that you want Eve to be turned into a day job, only without the pay or the benefits. I have the perfect game for you to play if Eve local is making your gaming experience too exciting: Eve Online: Malka's Version Grow a backbone. Go ratting in a group (I already do this) and you cannot get jumped by that solo recon. You will still have your intel comming in from your allience as people pass things on gates or scan them out (if you dont then why are you in 0.0 to start with?) Got a mining op? get protection and organise a watch on the gates. Only fools will be hurt by this change. Backbone has nothing to do with my argument. I'll assume you were too busy frothing at the mouth to actually read my post, or the one before it, since I was arguing that this would introduce too much tedium and repetitiveness (in an already tedious and repetitive game). I don't believe at any point did I say it would be 'too hard' or 'too risky' as your response is implying. I play games for entertainment, not to punish myself. Perhaps next time you'll quote something a bit more relevant to the point you're trying to make.
Lustralis	Posted - 2008.10.28 19:28:00 - [88] Originally by: baltec1 Got a mining op? get protection and organise a watch on the gates. Only fools will be hurt by this change. It's this kind of thing that make me laugh. Do you know how long a mining op goes on for in order for it to be profitable? Not only do you need to split the proceeds with your "protection", they'll be bored as **** for their trouble. Now tell me how many corps have willing gangs of capable PvP'ers who're motivated and able to babysit you and your Hulk/Haulers for hours on end? Like I said before, this change effectively makes industry in 0.0 very expensive and not many people will continue with it. You need to remove your head from your own backside and think about things in the round. Don't get me wrong, I can see the fun to be had sneaking around in a local free environment (a bit like being a cloaked spy in TF2), but if you want the opportunity to get the jump on me, then I want a lightweight passive deployable early warning system, so I know for sure when you're coming.
Lady Aja Caldari Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.10.28 19:40:00 - [89] Originally by: Malka Badi'a Reasons why your arguments are nothing but fallacies. 1.) "Why should we be forced to use alts just to see if a system is safe, before undocking!" When undocking you are rendered invulnerable until you preform a ship action (warp, align, module) or until the undocking timer runs out (30 seconds). That is plenty of time to run a 360¦ directional scan at the maximum 14.3 AU scan range. This will give you an idea of your immediate surroundings and is damn near instant. The short time when you are invulnerable also grants you enough leverage to undock and see if you are being station camped. Also, since this is in 0.0, I'd expect you would be in a corporation or alliance and could quite easily ask for someone to recon the area. Once undocked it's as simple as directional scanning at 30¦ 14.3 AU towards the gate by warping to the planet closet to said gate while also considering, if no planets near the gate, to warp at 100k from the gate. Generally, most 0.0 pilots have gate-scanning bookmarks already hand-crafted. FAIL... some stations throw you out of docking range right away. and 30 seconds? LMAO what a joke.. can you say 10+km off of docking range? otherwise nice try
onoma	Posted - 2008.10.28 19:58:00 - [90] Originally by: Malka Badi'a Originally by: Julius Rigel Yawn. Another whine about whines. Education is very different than complaining about complainers. I offered solutions above, what more do you want? Why would he want what you have to say in the first place? He never asked for your insight. Just pointing that out..

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