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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Keen Fallsword
The Scope Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2012.04.03 10:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
I dont care anymore |
Koban Agalder
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
0
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Posted - 2012.04.03 11:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
But what about a broken Naglfar?! |
Greg Valanti
Looney Clones
34
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Posted - 2012.04.03 11:20:00 -
[33] - Quote
Roime wrote:
Myrmidon needs to be rated as semi-borked, though.
In what way? It is one of the most versatile BCs in the game. |
Liz Arji
Gothic Unlimited
21
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Posted - 2012.04.03 11:31:00 -
[34] - Quote
So the Nighthawk and Vulture are considered broken. I wonder if this only concerns their link module bonus or also their offensive/defensive abilities. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Resurrected Darkness
108
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Posted - 2012.04.03 11:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
Was unable to see Minmatar industrials but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say: yellow (Wreathe) and green (Hoarder).
I see the Badger Mark II listed as green. I'd say it needs a cargo space buff, but it's nice for a defensive industrial. Though it's only marginally better than the Bestower in the few ways it is.
Also I disagree with the Cyclone being red. They might not have had much experience with those, but they are a very satisfying ratting ship if nothing else. A cyclone can tank very well for a tier 1 bc and though its damage output is lowish (not terrible, mind you!), the moderately large drone bay plus autocannons make it really easy to tear through frigate and cruiser rats alike. I've not yet flown any ship that was better at going through level 3 missions. -edit- but hey, I won't cry if they buff it. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
404
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Posted - 2012.04.03 11:48:00 -
[36] - Quote
Greg Valanti wrote:Roime wrote:
Myrmidon needs to be rated as semi-borked, though.
In what way? It is one of the most versatile BCs in the game.
Yes, that's why only semi-broken. The problem I have with it is it's dps compared to Vexor. Same bandwidth, no weapon bonus.
Myrm should get the 100mbit/s to bring it's damage output over a Vexor.
It's very slow, and because of that it's often unable to apply the turret dps, and only relying on it's drones.
OTOH, one could also argue that Vexor is OP for a cruiser, and I wouldn't disagree
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
416
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Posted - 2012.04.03 11:49:00 -
[37] - Quote
Clever girl.
OP is too smart for his own good, please all look at this magic flashy-thing pen while we put some sunglasses on...
More seriously, there are reasons why no ship names were on that chart.
- The list is by no mean fixed, and ships we consider to be broken change all the time. Especially since this is a long term planned change.
- The list is also highly biased to the reader. Depending on your experience, profession in EVE you may not find it accurate, and for good reasons. For instance, a Raven may be quite ok for mission running pilot, but far less appealing for a player engaged in long null-sec fleet warfare.
- We wanted to avoid nitpicking discussions about which exact ships can be considered as broken, and just a provide a general review of the game status. During Fanfest, we were far more interested to move the discussion forward during the roundtables / questions on how to improve the ship status, not to spend most of our time arguing on which vessels are broken or not .
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Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
221
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Posted - 2012.04.03 12:02:00 -
[38] - Quote
People love to speculate.
I can easy fill any name in any place in that chart. Then tunble all around and put different names in places and still have a perfect explenation.
I saw someone saying " Sacrilege is fine?" If propperly fit it can hold it's ground to various other ships and fail horribly to others. But then again that is something true for every ship. If you want a pure I-Win ship you should become a Dev and get a nice frig with 2,000,000 HP, 99% resist over the board in shield and armor and 8 DD's high. |
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
596
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Posted - 2012.04.03 12:36:00 -
[39] - Quote
As "broken" can mean "too good" or "too bad", that list says preciously little.
But, well, for Minmatar, with the similar guesswork:
- All frigates except for Rifter and Firetail are broken - Wolf, Jaguar are semi-broken (before the last changes, I guess) - Hyena is broken - All cruisers except the Rupture are broken. The Stabber is semi-broken. - Muninn, Huginn are semi-broken - Loki is semi-broken - Cyclone is broken - Prowler or Mastodon (not sure which) is broken - Navy phoon, navy pest are semi-broken - Panther is broken - Hel and Ragnarok are semi-broken
Some of those are part of a ship class that is considered "(semi-)broken" across all races (e.g. blackops, supercaps), so might not even be ship-specific, but class-specific. |
Hashi Lebwohl
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.04.03 12:59:00 -
[40] - Quote
The minmatar are always the step child when in comes to handing out the presents. Typically , Amarr get the great armour buff, caldari get the shield buff, gallente get the damage buff , (pause whilst searching the bottom of the bag) minmatar gets the furry sweet nobody else wanted. |
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Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
404
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Posted - 2012.04.03 13:09:00 -
[41] - Quote
Arkady Sadik wrote:- Navy phoon, navy pest are semi-broken
while I agree that the navy pest is semi-broke, the case of the navy phoon is quite relative.
unless it's the looks, then the phoon is, indeed, broken, independently of whatever version you're talking about. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Jame Jarl Retief
Corps Diplomatique Terrestrienne
22
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Posted - 2012.04.03 13:35:00 -
[42] - Quote
Well, if nothing else, the chart puts the whole "Gallente are fine" argument to rest. Finally.
Now, to see what actually gets fixed, and how. Just hope they remember that drones were meant to be a Gallente racial weapon, just like missiles on Caldari and projectiles on Minmatar, and treat them accordingly. |
Fidelium Mortis
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
75
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Posted - 2012.04.03 13:39:00 -
[43] - Quote
Alain Kinsella wrote:I don't see the issue with the normal Omen. At low skills you can run a 4-turret config, then at higher skills graduate to a 5-turret setup (5 high-end Beams can be tricky IIRC). I grew into that ship rather nicely actually.
Same with the Sigil. Smaller and agile, a nice step down from an Impel if you're just doing casual shuffling things about (like a bunch of P1s from a planet). And it was free if you did the career tutorials. What's not to like?
Maller and Aug I can understand being a problem. Never seen much of a use for those.
The cap bonus on the omen is practically a waste for a ship that is supposed to be the primary gun-based damage ship for the Amarr cruisers. Compare the omen to the viability of the thorax, vexor, caracal, and especially the rupture and it just doesn't match up. ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon |
IGNATIUS HOOD
Zephyr Corp Black Thorne Alliance
296
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Posted - 2012.04.03 13:56:00 -
[44] - Quote
Nedes Betternaem wrote:Xurr wrote:The ones i were referring too was the addition of a bounty to the drones. Eh... I guess if you live in drone space that might be important. Otherwise, I still think salvage drones will do more to lower demand for marauders than the removal of rogue drone mineral drops.
I'm not sure I agree. I think what I'll do is swap out the lone salvager and replace it with a 3rd tractor beam and use salvage drones while I loot the wrecks that I pull in close. Dragging the wrecks in close will let the drones work faster since they won't be flying all over the place.
Although if salvage drones are anything like mining drones they will be less than useless IMO. 'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim'
Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you. |
stoicfaux
910
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Posted - 2012.04.03 13:58:00 -
[45] - Quote
marVLs wrote:Are You F... Kidding me? Golem on green?
I don't want to live on this planet anymore... Agreed, the Golem is Meh.
DarkAegix wrote:Imajitaaltofanalt ofanalt wrote:Xurr wrote:Its a bit interesting they consider all the marauders to be fine.
With the coming drone changes i see them losing what little value they have now. What drone changes?? Salvage drones Meh, if the drones can't loot, then they're not adding a whole lot of value since salvage prices are so low (and will get lower if people start using salvage drones.) OTOH, a Vargur, which doesn't deploy drones too often, could fit three tractors and a flight of salvage drones, thus maximizing loot gathering and mitigating salvage drone flight time.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
123
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Posted - 2012.04.03 14:07:00 -
[46] - Quote
Are you sure with the T1 Amarr frigs
I don't belive the Punisher is "OK". I'd rather say the Executioner is "OK" but the Punisher .... well, ALL Amarr ships with "xx cap/level for guns" are broken as they are have a fake-bonus instead of a real bonus
There is a reason why people fly nearly all of them with Projectil weapons instead of Lasors
Why should I use cap at all if I can do the same damage with damage type selection without using cap
This is true for - Crucifir - Magna - Punishe - Malle - Legion Drone offens - Legion Covert offens - Prophec
And it is partial true for all other with cap/level laser as all this ships miss a TRUE bonus like RoF, Damage, Resist, range, tracking. Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship! |
Jerick Ludhowe
Wraiths of Abaddon CELESTIAL ORDER RISING PHEONIX
59
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Posted - 2012.04.03 14:09:00 -
[47] - Quote
Roime wrote:
Yes, that's why only semi-broken. The problem I have with it is it's dps compared to Vexor. Same bandwidth, no weapon bonus.
Myrm should get the 100mbit/s to bring it's damage output over a Vexor.
QFT
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Dato Koppla
Perkone Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.04.03 14:35:00 -
[48] - Quote
Jojo Jackson wrote:Are you sure with the T1 Amarr frigs
I don't belive the Punisher is "OK". I'd rather say the Executioner is "OK" but the Punisher .... well, ALL Amarr ships with "xx cap/level for guns" are broken as they are have a fake-bonus instead of a real bonus
There is a reason why people fly nearly all of them with Projectil weapons instead of Lasors
Why should I use cap at all if I can do the same damage with damage type selection without using cap
This is true for - Crucifir - Magna - Punishe - Malle - Legion Drone offens - Legion Covert offens - Prophec
And it is partial true for all other with cap/level laser as all this ships miss a TRUE bonus like RoF, Damage, Resist, range, tracking.
QFT, useless bonus is useless, if lasers were a whole lot better than the other weapon systems I'd understand, but they aren't and forcing the ships to take on a bonus that isn't really bonus but rather just making the ship useable. |
Rimase
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
12
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Posted - 2012.04.03 14:40:00 -
[49] - Quote
I think they're doing alright. Leave CCP to it because they know they're in **** already, and surely only good can from now on. :P |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3639
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Posted - 2012.04.03 14:52:00 -
[50] - Quote
Cept in CCPs labeling of 'broken' is ships are nobody flies in its grouping.
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Andrea Griffin
220
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Posted - 2012.04.03 14:54:00 -
[51] - Quote
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:The minmatar are always the step child when in comes to handing out the presents. Typically , Amarr get the great armour buff, caldari get the shield buff, gallente get the damage buff , (pause whilst searching the bottom of the bag) minmatar gets the furry sweet nobody else wanted. And yet Minmatar is still considered king in certain styles of combat. You also forget the significant projectile buff that wasn't too long ago, where all of the ammunition was improved upon. CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer. |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
576
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Posted - 2012.04.03 14:59:00 -
[52] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote:Hey everybody, In the fanfest ship balancing presentation, there was a chart shown with all the T1/T2/T3/Faction ships, colour-coded according to how CCP sees them. Red = Broken Yellow = Semi-broken Green = Working as intended
The funny thing is that all the broken ships overlap across the races (mostly). Its more a situation of faulty classes. - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers
93
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Posted - 2012.04.03 15:12:00 -
[53] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Clever girl.OP is too smart for his own good, please all look at this magic flashy-thing pen while we put some sunglasses on... More seriously, there are reasons why no ship names were on that chart.
- The list is by no mean fixed, and ships we consider to be broken change all the time. Especially since this is a long term planned change.
- The list is also highly biased to the reader. Depending on your experience, profession in EVE you may not find it accurate, and for good reasons. For instance, a Raven may be quite ok for mission running pilot, but far less appealing for a player engaged in long null-sec fleet warfare.
- We wanted to avoid nitpicking discussions about which exact ships can be considered as broken, and just a provide a general review of the game status. During Fanfest, we were far more interested to move the discussion forward during the roundtables / questions on how to improve the ship status, not to spend most of our time arguing on which vessels are broken or not .
can we please get a dev blog on some proposed changes to be coming to at least the frigates in the next few weeks or so, or least some comments on what may be happening here. the suspense is killing me ... quite literealy. thouhg im mostly looking to see the T1 Cruiser changes tbh esepculy to the omen. and tbh the navy omen should be what the T1 Omen should have been if you ask me.
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Plyn
Random Jedi Industries KRYSIS.
47
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Posted - 2012.04.03 15:32:00 -
[54] - Quote
ITTigerClawIK wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Clever girl.OP is too smart for his own good, please all look at this magic flashy-thing pen while we put some sunglasses on... More seriously, there are reasons why no ship names were on that chart.
- The list is by no mean fixed, and ships we consider to be broken change all the time. Especially since this is a long term planned change.
- The list is also highly biased to the reader. Depending on your experience, profession in EVE you may not find it accurate, and for good reasons. For instance, a Raven may be quite ok for mission running pilot, but far less appealing for a player engaged in long null-sec fleet warfare.
- We wanted to avoid nitpicking discussions about which exact ships can be considered as broken, and just a provide a general review of the game status. During Fanfest, we were far more interested to move the discussion forward during the roundtables / questions on how to improve the ship status, not to spend most of our time arguing on which vessels are broken or not .
can we please get a dev blog on some proposed changes to be coming to at least the frigates in the next few weeks or so, or least some comments on what may be happening here. the suspense is killing me ... quite literealy. thouhg im mostly looking to see the T1 Cruiser changes tbh esepculy to the omen. and tbh the navy omen should be what the T1 Omen should have been if you ask me. Chances are, if you're this excited you probably already read this, but I think this is the best way to unbrake most of the ships.
Tiericide will allow all those unflown ships to finally be able to fill the roles they were designed for. Come2Nullsec |
Rimase
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
12
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Posted - 2012.04.03 15:32:00 -
[55] - Quote
I'd like to Faction Warfare shiplines been in the loop, too, by being all 'Improved' variations of Standard / Economized TECH1. KEY: These Militia variations and their modules cannot be placed on Market nor Reprocessed but can be Traded via Stations. They are Military-standard (not Civilian-sandard) and thus are Improved.
DarkAegix wrote:Hey everybody,
All Black Ops ships: Broken That may be so, and so I've already suggested something that can so easily tie-in with most Fanfest concepts and in-developments. I had a cool idea for a new shipline with the introduction of the whole shiplines, which make sense for Black Ops, smuggling, marauders and pirates. Also introducing new sub-legalities into EVE.
Here it is: Clandestine Shiplines (Hidden identities, sub-legal ships, Black Ops, contraband & Smugglers!) |
Imajitaaltofanalt ofanalt
State War Academy Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2012.04.03 15:53:00 -
[56] - Quote
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:The minmatar are always the step child when in comes to handing out the presents. Typically , Amarr get the great armour buff, caldari get the shield buff, gallente get the damage buff , (pause whilst searching the bottom of the bag) minmatar gets the furry sweet nobody else wanted.
Is this why Minmitar>Gallente? |
Rimase
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
12
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Posted - 2012.04.03 15:56:00 -
[57] - Quote
a 'Logistics Shipline' really ought to be considered, too, right? The ships that support and command.
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Lili Lu
194
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Posted - 2012.04.03 16:11:00 -
[58] - Quote
So many people falling for the OP.
Yes, yes of course this person was able to decifer the chart and what CCP will be doing. |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
452
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Posted - 2012.04.03 16:43:00 -
[59] - Quote
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:The minmatar are always the step child when in comes to handing out the presents. Typically , Amarr get the great armour buff, caldari get the shield buff, gallente get the damage buff , (pause whilst searching the bottom of the bag) minmatar gets the furry sweet nobody else wanted.
yea but projectiles aren't considered the best weapons or anything |
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers
94
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Posted - 2012.04.03 16:55:00 -
[60] - Quote
Plyn wrote:Chances are, if you're this excited you probably already read this, but I think this is the best way to unbrake most of the ships. Tiericide will allow all those unflown ships to finally be able to fill the roles they were designed for.
i have indeed read all the way through that and watched the ship balancing panel but what i ment was some more specific stuff like to the individual ships like giving us a look at what they had in mind towards changing HP amount and slots and the like for the frigates and such as well as perhaps bonus changes and preferably a racial inherent bonus to free up a bonus no ships so we have another damage or resist bonus for amarr ships rather than the dam cap bonus..
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