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Ghoest
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Posted - 2008.10.31 13:27:00 -
[1]
50 million points in combat is no more likely to win a fight than 20 million in combat.
50 million in a trading focus isnt going to earn more than 20 million in trading.
All it does is unfairly punish long term players who want to PVP.
5 million isk clones are annoying but ok. 8 Million ik clones are more annoying but you put up with it. 10 million plus for a clone isnt fun it just a stick in the eye at the most faithful customers.
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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Splash Whale
Ctrl-Q Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.31 13:29:00 -
[2]
If you dont like paying for an expensive clone you can do the following:
*dont use the character for pvp in 0.0 anymore
*dont get podded(same as above really)
*train a different character on the same account
*quit eve and give me your stuff
I'll be happy to accept thank you letters ingame.
----
When in doubt, Ctrl-Q. |
Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.10.31 13:30:00 -
[3]
Back to the belts, or start training another account.
In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.10.31 13:31:00 -
[4]
Older characters can earn ISK easier, and thus are hit by ISK sinks harder.
Higher-end skill books also cost way more.
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DesuSigs |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.31 13:31:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Ghoest
50 million points in combat is no more likely to win a fight than 20 million in combat.
50 million in a trading focus isnt going to earn more than 20 million in trading.
All it does is unfairly punish long term players who want to PVP.
5 million isk clones are annoying but ok. 8 Million ik clones are more annoying but you put up with it. 10 million plus for a clone isnt fun it just a stick in the eye at the most faithful customers.
LOL... try a 750M ISK clone then and tell me about the "10M+ for a clone" being expensive.
I know a fair number of people who fly with more then that.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.31 13:33:00 -
[6]
High-end clones prevent high SP players from losing a lot of their SPs - they have more to lose so they pay more.
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K'uata Sayus
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Posted - 2008.10.31 13:38:00 -
[7]
Having 50M Skillpoints and not being able to afford an adequate clone is pretty poor planning in my book.
EVERYONE SEEMS NORMAL UNTIL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM. |
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Ursa Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2008.10.31 13:40:00 -
[8]
And if it doesn't matter if you're 20M or 50M, then why care about lost SP? Just don't upgrade the clone, problem solved.
Heh... But no, really... When you're flying around with full set of +4 or +5, 10M isk doesn't matter much.
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2008.10.31 13:42:00 -
[9]
What they said above.
If you have 50mil SP and have a harder time affording your clone than a 20mil SP, you might want to ask yourself WTH you are doing.
Even tho 30mil more SP won't automaticly earn you more isk, experience should. And someone that can afford to buy a 50mil SP character should very well know how to make isk.
Fakeedit; I bolded the funny part.
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Mihailo Great
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.31 13:46:00 -
[10]
most importantly it curtails pod jumping a bit. In 0.0, I used to clone jump for everything cause travelling is boring (until jump brdges came).
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2008.10.31 13:50:00 -
[11]
No one has good given a good reason and a few response are just wrong.
I know it gets exponentially worse.
Why should long term players have to avoid 0.0 or beforced to frind more isk?
Im guess most if not all the people relying have no intention of staying with the game long term.
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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Liliana Jade
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Posted - 2008.10.31 13:52:00 -
[12]
No one forces you to buy a 50 million point clone, buy only 20 million point ones instead and the problem will solve itself.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2008.10.31 13:56:00 -
[13]
Clones are cheap these days, they were much more expensive a while ago. It's not bad game design, it's just logic since older chars (should be able to) make more money.
As stated; deal with it or don't die.
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Benedic
The Aftermath
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Posted - 2008.10.31 13:58:00 -
[14]
Personally I love paying 20m for a clone on a lolships op where the ship + fit costs less than 5m.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2008.10.31 14:05:00 -
[15]
Seriously some of these response are stupid.
1 50 mill sp doesnt help you make any more isk than 20 mill sp.
Once you hit 15 or 20 mill sp earning money depends on the time you spend earning money not you skill points.
2 The need to avoid PVP is why this is stupid game design. Yes you can safely sit in high sec - thats not what the game is suposed to be about.
By design CCP has made it so adding SP broadens your character with out making you much better. Thats fine, but if high SP doesnt make you richer or tougher you shouldnt have to pay for it.
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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Julius Rigel
House Rigel
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Posted - 2008.10.31 14:08:00 -
[16]
If you are unhappy with the amount of skill points you have, and you feel that you're not doing any better than a 20 million skill point clone, then simply stop upgrading your clone, and in time, by way of podkills, you will start losing skill points and level out at a more affordable clone level. 
Scared of the events forum? |
ShardowRhino
Caldari
Legion 0f The Damned
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Posted - 2008.10.31 14:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ghoest
No one has good given a good reason and a few response are just wrong.
I know it gets exponentially worse.
Why should long term players have to avoid 0.0 or beforced to frind more isk?
Im guess most if not all the people relying have no intention of staying with the game long term.
Hey, im with you on this! I hate being popped and having to cough up 5mil isk for a new clone!
Then again im sure newbies are tired of paying 500,000 isk for a new clone to. Sooo lets just over through this corrupt cloning system and give free, all you can SP , clones!
It sucks, sure but its part of the game. Also its a part of the game CCP has already nerfed ...uh...last year i think. SO your clone should actually cost more then 10mil if we were going by the old rules. losing isk sucks but its part of the game.
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Gaius BaItar
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Posted - 2008.10.31 14:27:00 -
[18]
I would love to have a dedicated PvP clone available.
-Not too expensive and independent of your SP
-No skill training possible while using it
-if your pod gets blown up, youÆll have to pay for another one, but no lost SP.
Want to PvP or foreseeing a dangerous situation? Jump into this clone and fight as long as you want, with no consequences regarding your SP.
When you want a brake, jump into a normal clone and continue your skill training.
How would you like that? 
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Mashie Saldana
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.10.31 14:37:00 -
[19]
Do people fly around without any implants fitted? 
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Tykkis
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Posted - 2008.10.31 14:40:00 -
[20]
50mil SP charracter is old fart and should be having dementia, degrading to a lvl of a 1mil SP char.
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CALUGARU
Repo Industries
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2008.10.31 14:43:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Gaius BaItar
Edited by: Gaius BaItar on 31/10/2008 14:40:19
I would love to have a dedicated PvP clone available.
-Not too expensive and independent of your SP
-No skill training possible while using it
-if your pod gets blown up, youÆll have to pay for another one, but no lost SP.
ItÆs like taking a screenshot of your skills and recover them at clone destruction.
Want to PvP or foreseeing a dangerous situation? Jump into this clone and fight as long as you want, with no consequences regarding your SP.
When you want a brake, jump into a normal clone and continue your skill training.
How would you like that?
pure fail. you go ahead and do that, and in 1 year i'll have 10 mil more sp's then you because i can afford a set of +3 or +4 imps np, or low grade slaves/etc without the fear of losing them.
______________
The new Orca:
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Mankirks Wife
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Posted - 2008.10.31 14:51:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
LOL... try a 750M ISK clone then and tell me about the "10M+ for a clone" being expensive.
I know a fair number of people who fly with more then that.
I hear you there.
When I was first getting started in FW I got podded a few times. 1Mish for a clone, then another 60 on a new implant set.
After I'd blown 100M+ on implants I realized I faced a choice...
1) Quit FW
2) Fly without my precious +4s
3) Stock up while they're cheap and deal with it.
I went with 3. ISK in my wallet doesn't do me or anyone else any good. 
---
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Gaius BaItar
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Posted - 2008.10.31 14:53:00 -
[23]
Originally by: CALUGARU
pure fail. you go ahead and do that, and in 1 year i'll have 10 mil more sp's then you because i can afford a set of +3 or +4 imps np, or low grade slaves/etc without the fear of losing them.
True, but no one is forcing you to use PvP mode.
If you have ISK, use normal clones. Else, go cheaper.
ItÆs a choice.
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2008.10.31 14:54:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ghoest
The need to avoid PVP is why this is stupid game design. Yes you can safely sit in high sec - thats not what the game is suposed to be about.
Guessing you're a troll, but here goes, I'll feed you;
Not sure WTH you are on, but you never fly with implants? Misanth isn't at 50mil SP yet, admit that much, but at least at 40+. I have Cybernetics 5 on this character and one alt, while the other two has Cybernetics 4. The cheapest clone I have on either of these four alts accounts has 150mil+ of implants plugged in.
You're talking about a few mil per clone to make you unable to PvP because of the isk loss? Pathetic tbh.
Shoot a few decent rats in 0.0 or do one level 4 and you have your clone isk.
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CALUGARU
Repo Industries
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2008.10.31 14:55:00 -
[25]
seriously, it costs 13 mil to insure a 72 mil sp clone. if at 70 mil sp you can't get 13 mil in 2-5 minutes...
______________
The new Orca:
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Ghost Goat
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Posted - 2008.10.31 14:58:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Do people fly around without any implants fitted?
in 0.0 ? of course ...
i was shocked to hear that as well but after a while in 0.0,
i realized its the best thing to do .
murphy law always applies for me , if im using a +4 or +3 imps and obviously +5
i will surely get podded ,however if i fly a clone without imps i usually
survive for months ... 
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Nexus Kinnon
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2008.10.31 15:06:00 -
[27]
Seriously? You're whining about clone costs? Really?
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Cassandra Valieries
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Posted - 2008.10.31 15:07:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ghoest
No one has good given a good reason and a few response are just wrong.
I know it gets exponentially worse.
Why should long term players have to avoid 0.0 or beforced to frind more isk?
Im guess most if not all the people relying have no intention of staying with the game long term.
People have given plenty of good reasons, but your reading comprehension seems slightly below average and you refuse to listen
I have 9 mil sp or so, those horrible 10 mil you are talking about, would take me 2-3 hours of missioning, and by the time i upgrade to a bs I should make it in less than an hour.
If anything, clones should be more expensive...
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CALUGARU
Repo Industries
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2008.10.31 15:07:00 -
[29]
seems so...
______________
The new Orca:
Originally by: CCP Navigator
ooopss
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Kuar Z'thain
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.31 15:09:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ghoest
Seriously some of these response are stupid.
1 50 mill sp doesnt help you make any more isk than 20 mill sp.
Once you hit 15 or 20 mill sp earning money depends on the time you spend earning money not you skill points.
2 The need to avoid PVP is why this is stupid game design. Yes you can safely sit in high sec - thats not what the game is suposed to be about.
By design CCP has made it so adding SP broadens your character with out making you much better. Thats fine, but if high SP doesnt make you richer or tougher you shouldnt have to pay for it.
You know that character you bought with mommies credit card? Give it to me, cause it's obvious you don't know how to play this game.
Someone that has invested the time to get to 50m sp knows plenty of ways to earn passive income to offset the cost of that clone and a full set of +5s with plenty of hardwirings.
You know what I do sometimes? I fly in a clone worth 500m in a ship worth less than 1/10th that.
Man up nancyboy.
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2008.10.31 15:11:00 -
[31]
Really weird to hear that. I spend more gametime in 0.0 and lowsec than in Empire and I think my 150mil+ implant clones die about once every 2nd-3rd month or so.
A 70mil+ SP player with +3's will have a clone that cost about 50mil to replace. Jumpclone out of it when it's a fleetfight and you know you might die, use it for roaming/small scale, say you lose one every 2nd month and that's 25mil a month. Less than a mil/day.
I've been using that system for quite some time, so far I have lost zero clones with implants. In high risk ops I've jumpcloned to a clear clone. For 95% of my roaming PvP I've been running 150mil+ implant clones. Havn't lost a single one.
Pretend I have 70mil SP, I fly no implants in fleets and +3's rest of the time. I doubt you still would lose more than 50-100mil a month in clones. That's one or a few hours of ratting, or a few running lv4's.
And as I said before, a few rats or a single lv4 will pay your clone with no implants, so I don't see the issue. It has to be a troll OP.
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Ghost Goat
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Posted - 2008.10.31 15:13:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon
Seriously? You're whining about clone costs? Really?
the man have a point , save your whines to more important things ,
this is a dead cause .
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2008.10.31 15:15:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Kuar Z'thain
You know what I do sometimes? I fly in a clone worth 500m in a ship worth less than 1/10th that.
Actually that sounds about the benchmark to me. 
Dictor/Ceptor etc = 150mil implants.
HAC/HIC or low sec BS = 500mil implants.
Fleet tackler = 0mil implants.
Capital = depends, 0mil for cap vs cap, supercap, 4-5bil.
Implants improve performance by a crapload, but meh, the more people that whine about isk and refuse to pay it.. the better for those that fly with 'em plugged in.
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Ghost Goat
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Posted - 2008.10.31 15:25:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Misanth
Implants improve performance by a crapload, but meh, the more people that whine about isk and refuse to pay it.. the better for those that fly with 'em plugged in.
i meant attributes implants not skill hard wiring ,that's a whole different story.
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Shard Merchant
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.31 15:27:00 -
[35]
No one says you're entitled to high skillpoints with no tradeoffs simply because you played a long time. I have 90mil, and I think its great game design. Although, its funny that my clone is about to cost 30mil isk for the THIRD TIME. They keep nerfing the price. I also pvp heavily and have been podded in combat about four times, most of that being 0.0. I've spent ten times more on agent locators than I have on replacing clones.
This is really one of the more worthless reasons to complain about. I don't get how some people spot something they don't like, and immediately think its a flaw, a bug or bad game design.
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2008.10.31 15:32:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Ghost Goat
i meant attributes implants not skill hard wiring ,that's a whole different story.
In essence those improve your performance as well, seeing as you skill up faster = you get better.
But I assume people mix attribute implants and hardwiring. I know I do at least. Either you run low-/high-grades, which gives a few +stats alongside the other effect. Or you run hardwires with pure stat enhancers. Five +4's with five 3%'s is ~150mil. Five +3's with 1%'s is not much more than 75mil.
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Ghost Goat
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Posted - 2008.10.31 15:44:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Ghost Goat
i meant attributes implants not skill hard wiring ,that's a whole different story.
In essence those improve your performance as well, seeing as you skill up faster = you get better.
But I assume people mix attribute implants and hardwiring. I know I do at least. Either you run low-/high-grades, which gives a few +stats alongside the other effect. Or you run hardwires with pure stat enhancers. Five +4's with five 3%'s is ~150mil. Five +3's with 1%'s is not much more than 75mil.
well you obviously don't die as much as i do 
guess its about play style , if im attacking someone
im staying there till one of us is dead , which is usually me .
blasters ftw
but im not complaining ,was just answering someone question .
so lets stop derailing this fail whine thread and let it die in peace .
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2008.10.31 16:11:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Kuar Z'thain
Originally by: Ghoest
Seriously some of these response are stupid.
1 50 mill sp doesnt help you make any more isk than 20 mill sp.
Once you hit 15 or 20 mill sp earning money depends on the time you spend earning money not you skill points.
2 The need to avoid PVP is why this is stupid game design. Yes you can safely sit in high sec - thats not what the game is suposed to be about.
By design CCP has made it so adding SP broadens your character with out making you much better. Thats fine, but if high SP doesnt make you richer or tougher you shouldnt have to pay for it.
You know that character you bought with mommies credit card? Give it to me, cause it's obvious you don't know how to play this game.
Someone that has invested the time to get to 50m sp knows plenty of ways to earn passive income to offset the cost of that clone and a full set of +5s with plenty of hardwirings.
You know what I do sometimes? I fly in a clone worth 500m in a ship worth less than 1/10th that.
Man up nancyboy.
lolz at the bob newb
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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clonkrieger
Imperium Forces
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.31 16:23:00 -
[39]
You obviously can't be arsed to make ISK, because you have to invest your time to do so. Get into a corp with an alliance and start belt running, or just trade/mine/ or mission run.
___________________________
Returned after being absent.
Updating... |
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Ursa Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2008.10.31 16:41:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Misanth
Really weird to hear that. I spend more gametime in 0.0 and lowsec than in Empire and I think my 150mil+ implant clones die about once every 2nd-3rd month or so.
I plug in +4's as I need them, and currently I got all my clones with full sets cause I just don't seem to get podded lately, even though I'm doing 0.0 and pew pew. (Begone; jinxing)
So the question really should be; Where is the OP getting all that awesome pew pew that causes clone upgrades to drain his wallet?
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Bish Ounen
Gallente
Omni-Core Freedom Fighters
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.31 16:50:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Bish Ounen on 31/10/2008 16:50:19
10 M isk and you are complaining? OMG WHINER!
I've been paying over 10m for clones for some time now. don't even bat an eye at it. and I almost never have more than 100 Million ISK in my wallet at any one time. Just die less.
Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull!
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Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.31 17:21:00 -
[42]
I almost replied seriously, but this can't be serious...
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Snake Doctor
MacroIntel
United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2008.10.31 17:24:00 -
[43]
In my experience, 50m sp players don't usually have a hard time coming up with 10 or 12 million....
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Spurty
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.31 17:30:00 -
[44]
if they have negative security status, they can't just simply run a level 4 mission or 2 to pay for the clone.
If they can't afford it and get podded down to 20mill from 50mill sp, they still can't get to high sec to make the isk back, but they probably have enough isk to afford a clone (could also sell 90% of those ships you can no longer pilot lol).
That or just retire to jita.
Insurance should also pay out on implants tbh. You don't get enough back for the cost.
Man goes to the doc, with a strawberry growing out of his head. Doc says "I'll give you some cream to put on it." |
daisy dook
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Posted - 2008.10.31 17:30:00 -
[45]
Personally I don't mind the SP loss with the standard clone; I just don't feel the need to buy an expensive medical clone.
After all SPs regenerate.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2008.10.31 17:56:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Ghoest on 31/10/2008 17:56:30
It would be cool if you could cancel out skills you dont want(of course you couldnt cancel out something that was required for a skill you had kept.)
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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Spurty
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.31 18:01:00 -
[47]
yah, only knocks you back 10% of the skillpoints on your most invested skill.
I think it took me just 9 days to get back into HACs after I rushed back into a fight without renewing my clone (should be a check box for this to be automatically done if you arrive in a station with accessible medical service).
Cheaper to just sell a GTC if your future has lots of poddings in it.
Man goes to the doc, with a strawberry growing out of his head. Doc says "I'll give you some cream to put on it." |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.10.31 18:04:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Ghoest
50 million points in combat is no more likely to win a fight than 20 million in combat.
50 million in a trading focus isnt going to earn more than 20 million in trading.
All it does is unfairly punish long term players who want to PVP.
5 million isk clones are annoying but ok. 8 Million ik clones are more annoying but you put up with it. 10 million plus for a clone isnt fun it just a stick in the eye at the most faithful customers.
10m? Try losing a pod worth 4+ bil and then you can maybe be allowed to post. Maybe.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
[Vid] I M M O R T A L
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Faife
Noctiscion
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Posted - 2008.10.31 18:35:00 -
[49]
successful troll is successful.
--
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Korovyov
Luminous Love Brewery
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Posted - 2008.10.31 20:03:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Faife
successful troll is successful.
very successful is very
--=--=-- end of post --=--=--
got booze? |
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.31 20:37:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ghoest
Seriously some of these response are stupid.
1 50 mill sp doesnt help you make any more isk than 20 mill sp.
Once you hit 15 or 20 mill sp earning money depends on the time you spend earning money not you skill points.
2 The need to avoid PVP is why this is stupid game design. Yes you can safely sit in high sec - thats not what the game is suposed to be about.
By design CCP has made it so adding SP broadens your character with out making you much better. Thats fine, but if high SP doesnt make you richer or tougher you shouldnt have to pay for it.
hahaha are you serious? you're worried about a clone that's less than the price of the rigs I put on a HAC that I'm gonna lose when I get drunk and get LOL-killed?
Seriously, people put +4s in the clones and PvP in them - even a pair is 35M or so.
making ISK is insanley easy. why the tears?
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Uuve Savisaalo
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.10.31 20:42:00 -
[52]
money sinks are good.
if you're at a point where your character's clones cost serious money, you should have no trouble affording it.
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phanthom chancer
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Posted - 2008.10.31 20:58:00 -
[53]
Stop getting podded and it won't be a problem.
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Ocih
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Posted - 2008.10.31 21:33:00 -
[54]
I understand your gripe.
Most PvP in Eve is a 15 minute gate giggle with HIC bubbles. Losing a hundred mill to medical clone seems out of touch.
Solution given?
Don't play... why doesn't that surprise me?
I Hope you have jump bridges, avoid gates. Cloaked Sniper. |
Foulque
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Posted - 2008.10.31 21:35:00 -
[55]
Kinda fail if you can't afford 10-20M for a clone.
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.31 22:59:00 -
[56]
Wahhhh, I have too many skill points, wahhhhhh.
EVE must be very difficult for you, poor baby. 
--
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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VicturusTeSaluto
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.11.01 00:04:00 -
[57]
just use a jump clone
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.11.01 02:01:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Ghoest
50 million points in combat is no more likely to win a fight than 20 million in combat.
50 million in a trading focus isnt going to earn more than 20 million in trading.
All it does is unfairly punish long term players who want to PVP.
5 million isk clones are annoying but ok. 8 Million ik clones are more annoying but you put up with it. 10 million plus for a clone isnt fun it just a stick in the eye at the most faithful customers.
You recently got podded and dont have the isk to buy a replacement clone huh.
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Strill
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Posted - 2008.11.01 02:24:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Strill on 01/11/2008 02:25:46
Originally by: Liliana Jade
No one forces you to buy a 50 million point clone, buy only 20 million point ones instead and the problem will solve itself.
You're ignoring the problem. The issue is that at 30 mil or so you reach your maximum pvp potential, and the rest of the points are just going into maxing out other types of ships. So why should the clones cost so much when you're not getting as much benefit from them?
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Poast Warrior
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.01 02:53:00 -
[60]
You think that's bad, other day I got podded and wasn't paying close attention to the clone screen. I see 45,000,000 and I think it's SP. Yeah, that's the one I need. Instead I picked the 45,000,000 ISK clone which gives me 156,000,000 SP. Whoops.
I guess I'm good on the clone for uh.. oh about 9 or 10 years =/
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
Shadow Company
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.11.01 04:13:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Nomakai Delateriel on 01/11/2008 04:15:48
Originally by: Strill
Edited by: Strill on 01/11/2008 02:25:46
Originally by: Liliana Jade
No one forces you to buy a 50 million point clone, buy only 20 million point ones instead and the problem will solve itself.
You're ignoring the problem. The issue is that at 30 mil or so you reach your maximum pvp potential, and the rest of the points are just going into maxing out other types of ships. So why should the clones cost so much when you're not getting as much benefit from them?
It's simple. If you feel that you've reached your maximum PvP potential, don't train anymore.
Otherwise it's a balance between utility and cost.
Although CCP probably don't want you to get a whole lot of points. The larger the percentage of people in EVE gets that are both maxed out in a specific role and have a maxed out potential in a number of other tactically flexible roles, the harder it gets for a new player to compete on the market. The harder it gets for a new player to compete on a roughly equal playing field, the harder it gets to attract new players.
The stagnation of player influx is a major problem for a MMORPG company as it will eventually lead to stagnation (and certainly won't lead to more customers).
If you could timewarp a new player back 3 years I'm fairly sure that they would feel like the game was fresher and freer than it is today (especially if we could timewarp back the current EVE client)
We're already up to 1-2 years of training time for a new character to be both fairly efficient and fairly well rounded.
While I'm fairly sure that while CCP won't make it harder than it is for players to gain and maintain a high number of skillpoints (oh boy the ragequit if they tried) they're certainly not going to make it any easier.
EDIT: Thus, au contraire. Higher clone costs is not bad game design, it's extremely good game design. A small aid in keeping the game as fresh as possible and holding back the inevitable entrenchment.
______________________________________________
-My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn. |
Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.01 05:25:00 -
[62]
Originally by: CALUGARU
seriously, it costs 13 mil to insure a 72 mil sp clone. if at 70 mil sp you can't get 13 mil in 2-5 minutes...
Read again what the op said, 20m sp char is not going to make more than a 50m sp char if both are specialized in the same thing. The OP is right, with 20m you can have a perfect industrial or trader or missionrunner.
Once you understand that, the claim that a 70mil sp char can get 13 mil in 2-5 minutes is rediculous.
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Nikla Uthaan
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Posted - 2008.11.01 05:34:00 -
[63]
Quote:
10 million plus for a clone isnt fun it just a stick in the eye at the most faithful customers.
You don't have 10 million ISK? Wow,,, better lay off Meta-2 items for a while
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Markitect
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Posted - 2008.11.01 05:45:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Kuar Z'thain
You know what I do sometimes? I fly in a clone worth 500m in a ship worth less than 1/10th that.
Actually that sounds about the benchmark to me.
Dictor/Ceptor etc = 150mil implants.
HAC/HIC or low sec BS = 500mil implants.
Fleet tackler = 0mil implants.
Capital = depends, 0mil for cap vs cap, supercap, 4-5bil.
Implants improve performance by a crapload, but meh, the more people that whine about isk and refuse to pay it.. the better for those that fly with 'em plugged in.
indeed, ppl pay what they think the gain is worth. personally i use this lot of plants and change about. if it dies it dies
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Verx Interis
Amarr
Aurora Security
Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2008.11.01 06:07:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Mihailo Great
most importantly it curtails pod jumping a bit. In 0.0, I used to clone jump for everything cause travelling is boring (until jump brdges came).
This mainly. I had to spend a lot getting around before, and the fact that my clones were 1m each made me more willing to use JC. Also the fact that I now have regular access to an outpost that I can set clones in, instead of an NPC station, helps a lot.
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Your bad loan management perfectly strikes the stock market, wrecking for -777.68 points.
Eve job list |
Bors DeGanis
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Posted - 2008.11.01 06:38:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Kuar Z'thain
Man up nancyboy.[/quote
Seriously - That's funny stuff right there
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Strill
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Posted - 2008.11.01 06:40:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Strill on 01/11/2008 06:40:49
Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel
Edited by: Nomakai Delateriel on 01/11/2008 04:15:48
Originally by: Strill
Edited by: Strill on 01/11/2008 02:25:46
Originally by: Liliana Jade
No one forces you to buy a 50 million point clone, buy only 20 million point ones instead and the problem will solve itself.
You're ignoring the problem. The issue is that at 30 mil or so you reach your maximum pvp potential, and the rest of the points are just going into maxing out other types of ships. So why should the clones cost so much when you're not getting as much benefit from them?
It's simple. If you feel that you've reached your maximum PvP potential, don't train anymore.
Otherwise it's a balance between utility and cost.
Although CCP probably don't want you to get a whole lot of points. The larger the percentage of people in EVE gets that are both maxed out in a specific role and have a maxed out potential in a number of other tactically flexible roles, the harder it gets for a new player to compete on the market. The harder it gets for a new player to compete on a roughly equal playing field, the harder it gets to attract new players.
The stagnation of player influx is a major problem for a MMORPG company as it will eventually lead to stagnation (and certainly won't lead to more customers).
If you could timewarp a new player back 3 years I'm fairly sure that they would feel like the game was fresher and freer than it is today (especially if we could timewarp back the current EVE client)
We're already up to 1-2 years of training time for a new character to be both fairly efficient and fairly well rounded.
While I'm fairly sure that while CCP won't make it harder than it is for players to gain and maintain a high number of skillpoints (oh boy the ragequit if they tried) they're certainly not going to make it any easier.
EDIT: Thus, au contraire. Higher clone costs is not bad game design, it's extremely good game design. A small aid in keeping the game as fresh as possible and holding back the inevitable entrenchment.
Holding back entrenchment?! Why in the world would an MMO want to DISCOURAGE its players from advancing their character!? The whole point of an MMO is constant advancement. You keep hanging a carrot in front of the player so they go for more and more stuff. If they can't get more stuff then there's no reason to play the game anymore.
So basically you're saying it's good because it encourages high sp players to quit, which means less competition for noobs. Great logic there.
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Kayosoni
Caldari
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.11.01 06:44:00 -
[68]
ITT: people who never played in 2003/2004.
heh
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
Shadow Company
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.11.01 07:20:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Strill
Holding back entrenchment?! Why in the world would an MMO want to DISCOURAGE its players from advancing their character!? The whole point of an MMO is constant advancement. You keep hanging a carrot in front of the player so they go for more and more stuff. If they can't get more stuff then there's no reason to play the game anymore.
So basically you're saying it's good because it encourages high sp players to quit, which means less competition for noobs. Great logic there.
Congratulations on being caught in the threadmill Strill, maybe WoW is more to your taste?
But let me present an opposing thesis. "The whole point of an MMO is to have fun".
How's that for a thesis, that games should be fun?
And fun is most often change. But we're playing a PvP MMO, a political MMO, a capitalistic MMO. Unlike most MMOs the world is dynamic. Power changes hands and alliances rise and fall. That ever changing game is what makes the game more fun.
Even if you or I never ever gained another skillpoint ever there would always be new content. New enemies to slay and new alliances to fight.
The best way to ensure that the world remains dynamic is to ensure that it's fairly easy for newer players to get into the political and PvP game on fairly equal terms. Fresh blood and new thoughts to shake up the status quo (the goons for all their faults definitely shaked up the status quo, even though 2 years ago most of them couldn't fly/afford more than frigates).
EVE already has a threshold that is about 15 times higher than any other MMO, and the higher the average player gets in terms of skillpoints, the harder it gets for the new guy to get involved in quality PvP entities.
So yeah. Discouraging players (but not making it impossible) from gaining more skillpoints IS healthy for EVE.
______________________________________________
-My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.11.01 07:26:00 -
[70]
you're a bad idea
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.01 07:33:00 -
[71]
A better question here is, if you feel you are at your maximum potential at 20mil SP. Why are you continuing to train anymore?
Say that's level 70 and call it a day.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Artemis Rose
Varion Galactic
Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.11.01 07:39:00 -
[72]
Instead of whining about it, maybe take steps to prevent you from ever buying a new clone?
Maybe flying in high/low sec and spamming warp to a random object like a crazed maniac when your ship hits hull? Seems to be more logical to me.
***
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2
WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Strill
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Posted - 2008.11.01 08:40:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Strill on 01/11/2008 08:44:12
Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel
Originally by: Strill
Holding back entrenchment?! Why in the world would an MMO want to DISCOURAGE its players from advancing their character!? The whole point of an MMO is constant advancement. You keep hanging a carrot in front of the player so they go for more and more stuff. If they can't get more stuff then there's no reason to play the game anymore.
So basically you're saying it's good because it encourages high sp players to quit, which means less competition for noobs. Great logic there.
Congratulations on being caught in the threadmill Strill, maybe WoW is more to your taste?
But let me present an opposing thesis. "The whole point of an MMO is to have fun".
How's that for a thesis, that games should be fun?
ok.
Quote:
And fun is most often change.
no.
Quote:
But we're playing a PvP MMO, a political MMO, a capitalistic MMO. Unlike most MMOs the world is dynamic. Power changes hands and alliances rise and fall. That ever changing game is what makes the game more fun.
Not interesting one bit.
Quote:
Even if you or I never ever gained another skillpoint ever there would always be new content. New enemies to slay and new alliances to fight.
I could care less. I have fun by making my character the best it possibly can be in one particular aspect so that I can compete and win as many fights as I can. What other people do is irrelevant.
Quote:
The best way to ensure that the world remains dynamic is to ensure that it's fairly easy for newer players to get into the political and PvP game on fairly equal terms.
Fresh blood and new thoughts to shake up the status quo (the goons for all their faults definitely shaked up the status quo, even though 2 years ago most of them couldn't fly/afford more than frigates).
EVE already has a threshold that is about 15 times higher than any other MMO, and the higher the average player gets in terms of skillpoints, the harder it gets for the new guy to get involved in quality PvP entities.
So then you encourage the most devoted players to stagnate for the sake of new players? You expect them to just sit there and quit? If you have nothing to look forward to, then why keep playing?
You're also completely ignoring the depth of the skill tree. Like the OP said, you can max out your pvp skills for any given ship/profession at around 30 million sp. The rest of the points are just for variety. All you do by penalizing high sp players is keep them from getting a larger variety of skills, or force them to use alts. They've maxed out everything a long time ago. So tell me again, how does this shorten the divide between new players and vets? IT DOESN'T. All it does is punish vets who want to max out a second ship type or move into a different profession.
If you want to make the game more accessible for new players, then the only way to do that is to lower training times across the board. The skills needed to max out any given ship are the same regardless of anything else. Penalizing players for getting more sp is not going to change how many sp a new player needs to max out their skills.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2008.11.03 04:54:00 -
[74]
As the last poster pointed out the game clone cost structure encourages you to have a separate PVP character and a separate industry character(and possibly a separate trader characters depending on play style.)
This really makes no sense. Its fine if you like having a bunch of characters and switch your training betwen them, but you shouldnt have a penalty for deciding to play just one character.
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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Yelan Zhou
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.03 05:11:00 -
[75]
Uhm..10 millions....huh? Uh I am a 2 month old player and lost 300 millions in pvp in implants(my t1 ships where realy cheap)
So uh I have 4 million skill points or so(dunno) and you have uh....like 50 millions?
So uhm I tell you what, I am a noob and you are a vet and I realy would like to help ya out.Next time you get pod killed, just send me a mail and I give ya 10 millions, Yeah...because.........because....ah yes, because we noobs should help the Veterans..yeah thats it...uh? /scratches head.
War. War never changes.
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Dasalt Istgut
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Posted - 2008.11.03 05:18:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Yelan Zhou
Uhm..10 millions....huh? Uh I am a 2 month old player and lost 300 millions in pvp in implants(my t1 ships where realy cheap)
So uh I have 4 million skill points or so(dunno) and you have uh....like 50 millions?
So uhm I tell you what, I am a noob and you are a vet and I realy would like to help ya out.Next time you get pod killed, just send me a mail and I give ya 10 millions, Yeah...because.........because....ah yes, because we noobs should help the Veterans..yeah thats it...uh? /scratches head.
4 million SP and 300 million in implants for PVP = epic fail.
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Yelan Zhou
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.03 05:22:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Yelan Zhou on 03/11/2008 05:23:18
Yeah, but I can afford that.I learn some things slower then other people (altough the "put two +4 implants in your current jump clone" trick helped alot.)
(edited for epic fail typos)
War. War never changes.
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