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a CEO
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Posted - 2008.11.01 10:38:00 -
[1]
anyone know of a good 0.0 indi alliance that
1)doesn't over tax its members
2)has good ore in its space(merc and A,B,C)
3)doesn't get in to wars alot
4)lets its members moon mine or has a internal trade system set up for them
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W3370Pi4
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.01 10:44:00 -
[2]
to survive in 0.0 you cant restrict yourself to carebearing only.
you need to have firepower or you are dead
if you don't know what im talking about you should ask all the people who failed trying to work with this system
from a 0.0 miner.......
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Vitreous Mercoxit ! What else |
Darekish
Caldari
Ascent of Ages
Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2008.11.01 11:22:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
any good industrial alliances?
dead ones 
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Hurricane Carter
0ccam's Razor
UNLeashed Legion
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Posted - 2008.11.01 11:42:00 -
[4]
Firstoff, a full fledged industrial alliance doesn't really excist no more.
There are alliances (and used to be) with very strong industrial backbones, such as BoB, KIA, DMC(rest in peace), etc etc etc
But there won't be "a" industrial alliance. Also, as said before to live out in 0.0 you really cannot afford to be a industrialist only, you'll need PVP skills either way.
Concerning your "requirements"
1) lots of those out there
2) Ye good chance of getting top end ores in a proper 0.0 Alliance
3) Euh... if you don't how are you in 0.0? PVP is the only means to take/hold space
4) Not a chance your gonna get moonmining rights. No way, no how, not ever.
The trade route/system is prolly something most do, Morsus mihi for instance have a entire jumpbridge network so you can travel from one end of their space to the other without ever doing a single gatejump, so thats a possibility but only the proper looked after alliances tend to do that since running and maintaining Jumpbridges isn't cheap :D
Sorry to not give you the answer you wanted but thats the way it is.
What you can do though, concerning moon minerals is try and strike a deal with the corp/alliance leadership where you can buy moon minerals/reactions for cheap but to what extend that goes I cannot tell you
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XrayZ
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.01 11:45:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Darekish
Quote:
any good industrial alliances?
dead ones
gawd, i nearly ****ed my self
best answer of the month 
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Cheopis
Ardishapur Ammunition and More
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Posted - 2008.11.01 11:49:00 -
[6]
Due to the mechanics of the game making it virtually impossible to have anything resembling secure space in 0.0, industrial alliances in 0.0 are rare. PVP alliances commonly have some industrial support located with them in 0.0, but it's almost always alts. A lot of 0.0 industrial support alts also sit in Empire, in non-alliance corps, or even NPC corps, and provide industrial support as a dedicated highsec task.
Most alliances let their members moon mine, but charge rent on moons in their space. There is frequently an auction style bidding system, and usually the choicest moons are controlled by the alliance itself.
In recent history, Bruce (Brutally Clever Empire) was probably the closest thing to a industrial friendly alliance, and they even managed to hold Fountain for a while. Unfortunately there was a lot of political crap going on, and several Bruce allies turned against them when they settled in and started building up an industrial presence, rather than kamikaze-ing against BoB. The fact that BoB had been pushed into smaller and smaller places, with insignificant losses of ships or pilots, didn't seem to indicate to enough people that it was going to get much harder and cost much more before there was going to be any hope of defeating them. So Bruce's allies started attacking Bruce rather than harassing BoB during a buildup, and BoB sat laughing in the corner while they watched their enemies attacking each other, and a real industrial 0.0 alliance ended up falling apart.
This is my take on what happened to Bruce while I was a part of it anyway. In essence, almost every "real" industrial corp you see in 0.0 is alts or pets to PVP alliances. Industrial Alliances in 0.0 either hold really crappy sections of space, or pay a powerful alliance a lot to stay there, in which case they are probably gonna tax you like mad to pay for the right to stay there.
Meh, yes, I'm not very enthusiastic about industry in 0.0
Id someone has a counterexample they want to trot out, I'd be happy to listen to a story about a successful independent 0.0 industrial alliance 
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a CEO
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Posted - 2008.11.01 12:10:00 -
[7]
then how is a industrial corp supposed to get access to 0.0 resorses with out sining there life away
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Jmanis Catharg
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.01 12:13:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 01/11/2008 12:16:43
Wow, de-ja vu.
Truth is, you stick in high-sec making big bucks through industry with minimal effort and make them cry some more about how 0.0 needs to be improved in return for the constant demands for nothing more than slave labor.
EDIT: Reason I say De-ja vu was I threw down a topic on a somewhat related note, and basically if you want to join up with an alliance you won't be able to:
A) Setup a large POS.
B) Setup laboratories.
C) Setup refineries.
D) Setup factories.
Wow, I really want to join those fantastic alliances now! 
Oh, and with an ! for a face, they probably won't even let you in the main body corp. Too much of a security risk.
</alliance-rage>
---
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
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a CEO
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Posted - 2008.11.01 12:55:00 -
[9]
you would think that alliances would want mining and industry corps that can build there fleets but it looks like they just don't care.
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BOBNIKER
Caldari
Cavemen
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Posted - 2008.11.01 15:05:00 -
[10]
Originally by: a CEO
you would think that alliances would want mining and industry corps that can build there fleets but it looks like they just don't care.
No not really. While your guys are out fighting and losing their ships and struggling to keep resources(mods) for new ships, the industrial guys are busy making more ships and selling them ( at a discount to their alliance) and getting wealthy. Jealousy enters and the pvpers start asking why should they be fighting and being perpetually poor when the industrial guys are just getting fat.
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gruktor
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Posted - 2008.11.01 15:58:00 -
[11]
Originally by: BOBNIKER
No not really. While your guys are out fighting and losing their ships and struggling to keep resources(mods) for new ships, the industrial guys are busy making more ships and selling them ( at a discount to their alliance) and getting wealthy. Jealousy enters and the pvpers start asking why should they be fighting and being perpetually poor when the industrial guys are just getting fat.
Well, what these 0.0 Alliances need to do is find a good Industry corp that will crank out ships, but won't fleece said Alliance in the process.
Some of just like building stuff.
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Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.11.01 16:48:00 -
[12]
Did you read the latest quarterly econ report? 4% of all eve toons are engaged in full time manufacture. That's all you need to support the active population.
I could singlehandedly (well, single-accountedly) support 20, maybe 30 people in my little corner of 0.0 if that was all I did. More if they'd stop ratting AFK or watch intel channels once in a while.
This is including t2 ships and modules. You don't need a POS to do 0.0 industry, simply use the station services your alliance maintains. Yes, it's more expensive than empire -- but it's not free for them either.
But it's just easier to let empire monkeys fight .01 isk wars, buy their inventory and carrier it in.
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Writt Inwater
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Posted - 2008.11.01 22:26:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Writt Inwater on 01/11/2008 22:30:29
There is always a fear that the industrialists will do too well, end up in control in much of the alliance's assets/infrastructure, and therefore end up calling the shots (a la doom).
I would say that most people, probably including the developers, see the game as a war/pvp simulator first and a market simulator decidedly second. So the idea of an alliance in which decisions are made according to rational long-term self-interest instead of simple bloodlust is viewed with contempt by a great many players.
The game just hasn't developed a need for the kind of dedicated industrial alliance you're talking about. Since it is not needed, and is furthermore actively hated, forming such an independent alliance would amount to painting a huge bull's eye on your forehead.
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joxter
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.11.01 23:19:00 -
[14]
Check out the alliance called Virtue of Selfishness, it is an industrial alliance with 0.0 access and is growing all the time by using the power of objective philosophy.
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Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.02 11:44:00 -
[15]
I can think of no actual Industrial alliances, but there are great differences in how the various alliances treat the carebear among them. There are those alliances that throw out constant PvP demands to the carebears, who don't have the skills/inclination to be effective at it, and those that allow the passive to coexist as long as there is a significant advantage to the PvP'ers to do so (significant discounts, cap/super-cap production, etc). Alliances are very much the realm of the PvP'ers, so you kinda have to eat crow a bit to exist among them. Cowering among their massive e-peen does give rewards though, as ABC is much nicer to mine than veld...
POS Personal Storage |
Gimpb
Deathwatch Ltd
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Posted - 2008.11.02 16:07:00 -
[16]
Originally by: a CEO
then how is a industrial corp supposed to get access to 0.0 resorses with out sining there life away
Said corp should be able to find an alliance where they are most welcome without too much trouble.
What these guys are talking about is entire industrial alliances, which isn't really practical, but an industrial corp in an alliance is quite practical. You could probably work a pretty sweet deal if you're smooth, tbh.
If you really want to go out on your own, you could try an obscure corner of npc 0.0. If you pick a good spot and don't aggrivate the locals you might be able to make it work.
The moon mining thing... moons are fought over and if you're not fighting for them, well, you're probably not going to end up with any.
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Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.11.02 17:25:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Gimpb
If you really want to go out on your own, you could try an obscure corner of npc 0.0. If you pick a good spot and don't aggrivate the locals you might be able to make it work.
Here is your problem,
most pirate groups, have a few carebear alts that make their T2 ships and ammo and T2 mods. Or they just jump the items down in a carrier or dread.
Why bother with an industrial group if you can just buy the items from the market and jump them down? Capital travel is currently very easy and takes 30 mins to move massive amounts of items or ships.
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destiny2
Caldari
Smegnet Incorporated
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.11.03 05:09:00 -
[18]
Edited by: destiny2 on 03/11/2008 05:11:24
Originally by: a CEO
then how is a industrial corp supposed to get access to 0.0 resorses with out sining there life away
Well to anwser that question get a group of say 20 people together have about 5 players in hulks and go down there and gather the minerals in the hulks dont stay there! and once all hulks are filled retreat to high sec and prey you dont run into any thing big
Getting into 0.0 is easy getting out with its resources undected is the harder part But ive been always wondering if carriers can jump into 0.3s if they can use that to your advantage have a beacon for a carrier set up in a 0.3 then once you have what you want get it to the carrier and tell it to jump..
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Cheopis
Ardishapur Ammunition and More
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Posted - 2008.11.03 20:03:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Cheopis on 03/11/2008 20:04:09
Originally by: destiny2
Edited by: destiny2 on 03/11/2008 05:11:24
Originally by: a CEO
then how is a industrial corp supposed to get access to 0.0 resorses with out sining there life away
Well to anwser that question get a group of say 20 people together have about 5 players in hulks and go down there and gather the minerals in the hulks dont stay there! and once all hulks are filled retreat to high sec and prey you dont run into any thing big
Getting into 0.0 is easy getting out with its resources undected is the harder part But ive been always wondering if carriers can jump into 0.3s if they can use that to your advantage have a beacon for a carrier set up in a 0.3 then once you have what you want get it to the carrier and tell it to jump..
Or you could combine mission running and highsec mining for your mineral needs.
LVL 4 mission loot tends to have a decent chunk of zyd and mega in it, plus plenty of other minerals too.
Get some training to refine scrap (scrapmetal processing)
Invite agent runners in, refine their minerals and buy them at a fair price.
You can also scrounge the markets for minerals that can be bought at very low prices, or refined from modules that are selling for lower than their mineral value.
You don't need 0.0 for manufacturing. It's nice, but you don't need it. You can even get morphite in small amounts from lvl 4 drone missions. However if you start doing any significant amount of t2 work, you will probably have to buy from people that bring morphite from 0.0.
If you choose to try to mount a lowsec / 0.0 sec mining party: A you better bring strong cover, and ideally get permission from a NRDS (Not Red Don't Shoot) alliance to mine in their space. Some alliances won't let people mine, some won't let them rat in belts, some only allow passage, and no other activity at all.
Know what you are getting into before you try it, and remember that you have to get that ore out again. One Hulk load each isn't crap, and won't be worth your time. This means that whatever you are using to haul with will have to either be jump capable to a secure system, or you will have to have a escort party for the haulers.
Ideally, you probably want to just ask a relatively friendly alliance if they would run overwatch on your mining op for a share of the minerals. Haggle a bit but if they don't come to a point where you feel comfortable, nicely say no thanks, and stay out of their space.
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Big Badaboom
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Posted - 2008.11.03 22:29:00 -
[20]
I think you need to ask yourself a few questions in return:
If you want to do pure industry, who's gonna cover your back when the reds are swarming in? - ok, and who pays their ships and ammo and clones?
So, expect to pay heavier taxes if you are not contributing to the defences in the area. - or, sell at a non-profit rate to the alliance.
Also, would you even want to live in 0.0, with your assets out there, and not being able to defend yourself?
As has been said in previous posts, no pvp = no space for you = no High-end ores and no moons to mine
You gotta think business - will your presence benefit the alliance in any way? Or will you be another weak spot, susceptible for attacks?
There are many ways to contribute to an alliance; Offensive power, Defensive power, Weaponry and Ships, Construltion Materials, ... or taxes.
Good luck out there!
Big Badaboom
C3 Tech
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Aemilia Abrivianius
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2008.11.04 10:11:00 -
[21]
Originally by: a CEO
anyone know of a good 0.0 indi alliance that
1)doesn't over tax its members
2)has good ore in its space(merc and A,B,C)
3)doesn't go looking to wave its pvp e-peen around
4)lets its members moon mine or has a internal trade system set up for them
Sounds like someone wants to get all the benefits from 0.0 without accepting the reality. You are looking to mine the best ores and the best moons without paying any kind of taxes nor be willing to fight for it.
Forget 0.0, I'll just give you 10bil a month, and you have to do absolutely nothing. How does that sound for a deal?
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Cheopis
Ardishapur Ammunition and More
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Posted - 2008.11.04 11:03:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Aemilia Abrivianius
Originally by: a CEO
anyone know of a good 0.0 indi alliance that
1)doesn't over tax its members
2)has good ore in its space(merc and A,B,C)
3)doesn't go looking to wave its pvp e-peen around
4)lets its members moon mine or has a internal trade system set up for them
Sounds like someone wants to get all the benefits from 0.0 without accepting the reality. You are looking to mine the best ores and the best moons without paying any kind of taxes nor be willing to fight for it.
Forget 0.0, I'll just give you 10bil a month, and you have to do absolutely nothing. How does that sound for a deal?
Can anyone sign up for this program?
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Writt Inwater
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Posted - 2008.11.04 17:50:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Writt Inwater on 04/11/2008 17:51:40
Quote:
If you want to do pure industry, who's gonna cover your back when the reds are swarming in? - ok, and who pays their ships and ammo and clones?
No - when you pay someone rent, you are paying them not to shoot you. This does not mean that they will shoot someone else who is shooting at you.
The chances of the space-holding alliance forming up to defend a bunch of 'useless carebear renters' from hostile roaming gangs are just about zero. Nor are they likely to waste time providing any instruction or leadership to help you defend yourself.
The owners *might* defend their sovereignty, but then again, they might decide that they have more important priorities. If they choose to fight, it will have nothing to do with any desire to defend you.
As a member of a renting alliance that does not fight, you are the lamest caribou in the heard, the weakest vassal, the unwanted handicapped child. No one is going to protect you. If anything, they are logging on to their neutral alts so they can shoot you for a little fun.
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Marketa Silverdrill
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Posted - 2008.11.08 05:30:00 -
[24]
i would suggest talking with blueprint haus in the oasa drone regions. they have a strong industrial base with some pvp but lots of industry. they are a member of the " Shadows of XXDeathXX " alliance wich is growing quickly.
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