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Sniper Wolf18
Gallente Apocalypse Ponies H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2008.11.01 14:42:00 -
[1]
Do CCP have any plans to give black ops a boost, or are they just gonna sit around unused and unwanted?
i mean, ~500m for a t2 battleship is supposed to have some upgrades over its predecessor, not just supposed to sit around and be an unused piece of crap.
I see covops flying around, i see Recons flying around, i see stealth bombers flying around (rarely) so why no blackops?
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2008.11.01 14:46:00 -
[2]
Blackops will get fuel bays, also blockaderunners will be able to ge bridged by them - into cynojammed systems.
Blackops will be very viable after the patch. -
Boosters and PirateProfessions
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RedSplat
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.11.01 15:11:00 -
[3]
The fact Blackops are 5* more expensive for dubious benefit and insta primaried might have something to do with that.
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Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.11.01 17:08:00 -
[4]
Originally by: RedSplat The fact Blackops are 5* more expensive for dubious benefit and insta primaried might have something to do with that.
So what, carriers cost big isk but you still see people using carriers solo. The wussy players who take the game too serious won't use a black op but those players sit in a T1 BS and cry when they lose it so there is no pleasing them.
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Azuse
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.11.01 17:15:00 -
[5]
If your fc is calling targets based on their isk cost, you have much bigger things to be worrying about m8 -------------------------
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Guygeboe
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Posted - 2008.11.01 17:48:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Azuse If your fc is calling targets based on their isk cost, you have much bigger things to be worrying about m8
true, but if the falcon on steroids( Widow ) is not primary then I'm worrying about your FC :)
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Waxau
Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2008.11.01 18:33:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Guygeboe
Originally by: Azuse If your fc is calling targets based on their isk cost, you have much bigger things to be worrying about m8
true, but if the falcon on steroids( Widow ) is not primary then I'm worrying about your FC :)
Widow sucks at jamming actually. 8 mid slots, atleast 1 ( i got 2) for a sensor booster, one or two for tank - leaves 4 mids. Cant go racial, cos ya dont want to be stuck with a 'non-racial' for a target...so you go multi's...so you only have a jam range of 50km or so.
Hardly anything to worry about, unless you're solo.
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Heretic Angel
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Posted - 2008.11.01 19:19:00 -
[8]
Maybe i just try to use my redeemer in the wrong locations, but anytime i see a time to use it, i loadup jumpplanner and find i need like 2 or 3 mid point covert cynos (and this isint trying to go like half the map, im talking maybe 8-10 jumps) and iv got 5-5 skills
makes me sad |
Lithalnas
Amarr Headcrabs
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Posted - 2008.11.01 19:26:00 -
[9]
Anyone remember when blackops were first introduced to sisi? They had a jump range which included the entire galaxy. Oh that would be so fun to have again. -------------
fixed for greater eve content |
Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2008.11.01 19:43:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Rajere on 01/11/2008 19:44:10
Quote: Widow sucks at jamming actually. 8 mid slots, atleast 1 ( i got 2) for a sensor booster, one or two for tank - leaves 4 mids. Cant go racial, cos ya dont want to be stuck with a 'non-racial' for a target...so you go multi's...so you only have a jam range of 50km or so.
Hardly anything to worry about, unless you're solo.
Agreed. At Blackops IV, Widow is 5% better than a Griffin for jamming effectiveness. That one useless bonus on the widow is responsible for the majority of the playerbase misunderstanding the entire line of black ops and labeling them as some kind of "support" vessel which lead the playerbase into shoehorning the ships into a function they are not actually capable of performing, except on paper. There are so many other potential roles and uses for blackops where they are clearly more effective and useful, but no one seems willing to try except a small handful of dedicated pvp enthusiasts. -------------------------- NOTR How to Fail at Eve
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Mo adib
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Posted - 2008.11.01 22:21:00 -
[11]
to be honest after the patch that gives em a fuel bay and lets the transports use em blackops will be incredibly freaking awesome, even more so when the patch comes that allows covops cynos to work in cyno jammed systems.
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Waxau
Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2008.11.01 22:51:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Mo adib to be honest after the patch that gives em a fuel bay and lets the transports use em blackops will be incredibly freaking awesome, even more so when the patch comes that allows covops cynos to work in cyno jammed systems.
To be honest, i dont see this. It gives OTHER PEOPLE a reason to train up for it. But for those of us who have been able to fly them since release, and HAVE been flying them...theyre still just as crap. They need attribute changes/bonus changes/role changes in order to be useful. Not just a 'ahh we'll tweak this a bit, and maybe that'.
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Celestra Doxaila
MinTek Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.02 00:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 I see covops flying around, i see Recons flying around, i see stealth bombers flying around (rarely) so why no blackops?
They must not have been doin a good job if you saw them!
But seriously, I agree with OP, BlackOps are not designed for actual combat, which makes them a serious niche ship. It would be nice if they could at least use gang links or something to that effect.
The idea of them peircing though cynojammers is very nice though, that would certianly boost demand for them.
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Katarlia Simov
Minmatar Cowboys From Hell
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Posted - 2008.11.02 00:42:00 -
[14]
I think that if black ops had SOMETHING to make them useable to attack cynojammed systems then they would be THE tool of choice for a lot of situations. As it stands, they will take days on end to kill a cyno jammer, and they just don't have the tank for that kind of job.
How about a logistics bonus, so that a bundle of them could ACTUALLY spider up and attack pos modules ?
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ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.02 01:02:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Katarlia Simov How about a logistics bonus, so that a bundle of them could ACTUALLY spider up and attack pos modules ?
Like a module that would boost say by 600% the DPS of stealth bombers? Boink! |
JAFM
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Posted - 2008.11.02 01:28:00 -
[16]
Since Black-Ops are supposed to be the linchpin of "stealth" gangs why not give them the "99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules." of Battlecruisers?
It's not the buff most people were looking for, but I believe it could really make them interesting in those types of gangs.
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Waxau
Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2008.11.02 02:03:00 -
[17]
I hate spamming it wherever i chat about black ops, but seriously- Allowing Cov Ops cloaks would be an instant fix to most of the problems, as it 'reworks' the ships. It doesnt have a scan res penalty with a cov ops cloak, plus a greater survivability. It gives it more stealth, and so on. An ability the weaker dps/tank is WORTHY of.
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cianide pro
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Posted - 2008.11.02 06:05:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Waxau I hate spamming it wherever i chat about black ops, but seriously- Allowing Cov Ops cloaks would be an instant fix to most of the problems, as it 'reworks' the ships. It doesnt have a scan res penalty with a cov ops cloak, plus a greater survivability. It gives it more stealth, and so on. An ability the weaker dps/tank is WORTHY of.
I agree but if only the scan res penalty would be taken away on coming patch as well then it will be a lot better already and we could see how this would work ingame. A least it will save med slots which we now need for sensor boosters and that gives us a bit more flexibility and it wont boost it directly to uber status, so why not change this?? I dont see any reason.
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Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr VITOC
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Posted - 2008.11.02 08:18:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Solomunio Kzenig on 02/11/2008 08:21:04
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Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr VITOC
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Posted - 2008.11.02 08:21:00 -
[20]
Fuel Bay for Black Ops = goodish Ability of Blockade Runners to use Covert Cyno's = better Jump into Cynojammed systems = nice
Ability to use Covert Cloak = What the bloody ship should have had from day 1. Come on CCP, give Black Ops some proper luv.
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Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2008.11.02 09:34:00 -
[21]
Quote: to be honest after the patch that gives em a fuel bay and lets the transports use em blackops will be incredibly freaking awesome, even more so when the patch comes that allows covops cynos to work in cyno jammed systems.
Not really. The fuel bay on the blackops is a convenience, it reduces the tedium of maintaining fuel caches. The changes to blockade runners are just that, changes for blockade runners. It gives transport ships new roles and new functionality, the blackops maintains the same functionality it has always had: The ability to open covert jump bridges for ships which can already fit covops cloaks, and therefore don't need bridging to begin with. Grats, it changes nothing for the blackops. While there's a few of us who enjoy the ships now, and have figured out ways to use blackops effectively, the vast majority of the players out there think the ships are horrible and useless. I hate to say it but if you cannot find a way to utilize them now, what is changing that would make you think you'd be able to after the changes? Blockade runners?
If the lack of cargo space to haul fuel around was the only thing standing in your way, you'd already be doing it. You'd have 2-3+ cargo expander fitted/rigged pilgrims with your recon gangs, with Cov Ops cloak, Cov Cyno, and Remote Armor Reps in the highs for post battle patch up work. The blockade runner changes would simply make it easier for you to take care of fuel logistics, but if this was going to be a useful function for the ships, we'd already see it being done now with cargo-pilgrims.
Honestly the problem again is this idea that blackops are "Support" for a recon gang, and I blame the silly bonus on the Widow for that. Think about it, if you have 2 members in your gang, you are in a Raven and your gangmate is in a blackbird, would anyone assume that the Raven is the support ship for the blackbird gang?
Why then is the Widow the support for the Falcon? One is the most effective ECM ship in game, the other does 900 DPS and has over 109k EHP, Hopefully no one is confused about which one is which. How could the Widow "support" the falcon anyway? He will have *useful* mods in free high slots like Heavy Neuts etc. That covert jump bridge stays in your hangar back at your base, you only dock up and fit it when you need it.
The covert jump bridge is merely one of the tools the blackops has, a tertiary ability, not it's main function. It's players trying to shoehorn the blackops into this ninja jump portaling "role" that are having the most problems with the ships being useless. How useful is the ability to open a bridge to a system that's only 2-3 regular jumps away? Oh and only for ships which can easily evade the gate camps/defenders due to their cov ops cloaks?
I will agree with Waxau about the Covert Ops cloak. Not for the ability to warp cloaked, could care less about that and I don't see how that will change how blackops are used. You're still a battleship, with all the limitations of a battleship, especially traveling between systems. A frig or cruiser can burn out of a bubble from just his initial burst of the MWD before he cloaked, and once you're out of the bubble you can go ahead and warp cloaked. A battleship? not so much, you're going to be able to move about 500 meters max before you're decloaked by the hostile gang and at that point, GG.
I am however, interested in a 0 CPU Cloak (with blackops V similiar to recons I hope) with no scan res penalty. Doesn't even need to let me warp cloaked, but if it does, no big deal. 0 CPU, 0% scan res penalty cloaks would definitely ease some concerns I have with the Redeemer specifically and blackops in general. That, the fuel bay, cyno-jammer systems, and giving them all the Sin's agility bonus and i'd be pretty content with them. -------------------------- NOTR How to Fail at Eve
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ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.02 11:48:00 -
[22]
Edited by: ElCoCo on 02/11/2008 11:49:21
Originally by: Rajere ...and giving them all the Sin's agility bonus and i'd be pretty content with them.
What, eh? No, go away! Change that stupid agility bonus to something else. Boink! |
Baudolino
Gallente Royal Crimson Lancers
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Posted - 2008.11.02 13:05:00 -
[23]
I would like to see two changes to BOs...
1. 300% bonus to cloaked velocity per level 2. Cloaked activation of cyvert cyno gen and covert jump portal.
*If recons and BOs could activate covert cyno WHILE cloaked and REMAIN cloaed in entry system- they would be truly awesome "Black Ops" and search and destroy guerilla warfare would take on a whole new dimension..
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Katy Karkinoff
Minmatar Psycho Chicks
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Posted - 2008.11.02 14:40:00 -
[24]
Originally by: ElCoCo Edited by: ElCoCo on 02/11/2008 11:49:21
Originally by: Rajere ...and giving them all the Sin's agility bonus and i'd be pretty content with them.
What, eh? No, go away! Change that stupid agility bonus to something else.
i wanna know what they were thinking when they gave it that bonus in the first place... Totally useless.
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Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2008.11.02 17:18:00 -
[25]
Well since you have 20 kills with a Panther (looking at the other ships you fly *ahem* machariel, I can guess what you were doign with that panther too, not really related to blackops at all) then you can disagree with the agility bonus replacing the speed bonus the panther currently has (though honestly, after the nano-nerf I'm not sure why you wouldn't want the speed switched to agility), but I know a few sin pilots who would be pretty upset if they took away their agility bonus.
Quote: i wanna know what they were thinking when they gave it that bonus in the first place... Totally useless.
couldnt' find a killboard for what I assume to be a 1 man alt corp, so post with a main so i can look at your kb for blackops usage. The Sin has the most useful bonus, a bonus the blackops ships actually need, unlike the Redeemer which has tracking and the widow which has ECM strength.
The panther's bonus does have it's uses, but it's not related to blackops at all, it's for invisible Nano-machariel capital ship bumpage. That will go away with the nano-nerf, so I'd assume panthers would want a new bonus as well. -------------------------- NOTR How to Fail at Eve
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ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.02 19:31:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Rajere Well since you have 20 kills with a Panther (looking at the other ships you fly *ahem* machariel, I can guess what you were doign with that panther too, not really related to blackops at all).
Well I got it for a real bargain price with polycarbs orelse I wouldn't use it at all duh. My machariel is certainly not nano fitted and I fly and own all (yes all) the battleships ingame with this character alone. But ofcourse you got me and my playstyle figured out
All i can say is that I've tried and realy realy tested all the blackops and opted not to realy bother with them and hey, besides all BS's lvl5 I got blackops 5 as well!
Now I'm staring at my widow and all those officer multispecs I bought before they had the blackops details down and I'm scratching my head
On the sin's agility bonus ermm... I dunno how you use your sin in your fail 1man and his alt gangs, but honestly? (see, I guessed how you play as well!) Boink! |
Samarath
SIEGE.
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Posted - 2008.12.04 17:06:00 -
[27]
And there I was lookin forward to hopin in a Sin...I didn't know you couldn't fit the cov op cloak on the black ops. Kinda lame imo. Guess I should read a bit closer before I go trainin jump drive op 5 and such...lol
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Black Night
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Posted - 2008.12.04 18:02:00 -
[28]
The one thing I think a BlackOps ship should be able to do, is jump behind enemy lines, create havoc, and then be able to jump back out. Basically be able to self jump without someone opening a Cyno gate on the other side.
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Thea Arsoniztik
Red Tides Viewer Discretion Advised
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Posted - 2008.12.04 18:13:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Samarath And there I was lookin forward to hopin in a Sin...I didn't know you couldn't fit the cov op cloak on the black ops. Kinda lame imo. Guess I should read a bit closer before I go trainin jump drive op 5 and such...lol
I'd like to see a covert ops cloak on them too. That would convince me to actually use them. I can see why it could be imbalanced, though. As it is now, I don't see what the point of them is if you can covertly cyno in a black ops, but then risk the enemy seeing your ship on scan anyway once you warp.
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NeoTheo
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2008.12.04 18:25:00 -
[30]
Edited by: NeoTheo on 04/12/2008 18:26:37 why the heck put tank on a widow? 2x sensor boosters, and rest jammers.
at least for skirmish warfare, blobs is a different matter, but if your blobbing you should be in a falcon / scorp (if you really must fly a BS) anyhow.
tbh the falcon is the way to go for fleets.
i personally dont like the idea of the covert ops cloak on them, its almost as stupid as suggesting they belong on bombers as well.
i would like the scan res penaltie removed from them for fitting a cloak however, it adds around 4 seconds to locking another BS.
- DAMT -
If you dont know, well, you dont know!
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