Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Malcanis
RuffRyders Eradication Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 17:22:00 -
[31]
The answer is more security buffs. Only when every ISK-farmer everywhere is safe, will we see GTCs at their true value.
PS: hahahahahaha! AAAaaaahahhahah!
PPS: BwaAAAAAAAAhahahaha! OMG! OMG! ehehe. heh. hehahaha. hooo...
|
Hegbard
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 17:42:00 -
[32]
Originally by: spud maur i would like to see is CCP set a price for these codes to be sold at with this new system they are introducing
I'm always surprised in those threads how casually people ask for a complete destruction of the game by introducing communism.
I guess I'm just old fashioned.
|
Mag's
MASS
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 17:44:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Hegbard
Originally by: spud maur i would like to see is CCP set a price for these codes to be sold at with this new system they are introducing
I'm always surprised in those threads how casually people ask for a complete destruction of the game by introducing communism.
I guess I'm just old fashioned.
Is that a kipper tie you're wearing?
Mag's
Originally by: Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you. |
Jas Dor
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 17:56:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Anslo Edited by: Anslo on 06/11/2008 15:42:00 I believe I and my fellow pilots have put up with this long enough. Before I continue I will say I am not begging nor am I asking for handouts, but this must be brought to light.
I have been monitoring and noticing a highly steady increase in GTC prices over the last few months. Before the 30 and 90 day GTCs were pulled off the market, general price levels of these GTCs remained constant. 120mil for 30, 250mil for 60 and i believe 500mil for 90, or around this general area.
As of now, 60 day GTC prices have been raised from 450mil 2 months ago, to 500mil last month, and now sellers are asking for 600mil. The isk price of these GTC's are not proportionate to the normal price CCP has set out. So I must ask, just what the hell are you bastards thinking? I do not refer to CCP, I do not refer to those buying the GTCs, I refer to to the sellers gouging their prices needlessly. I have yet to see a viable reason that this little group has to be raising their prices in such an audacious way. Many players cannot afford to use real cash so they rely on isk to do this. Now, players only play to pay for their damn cards, they cannot even afford new ships or equipment.
If this is left unchecked, the players base for this game could potentially and drastically drop, which inevitably will affect market prices in game, which will inevitably lead to a crash where it will cost 100,000 to buy 100 pieces of Uranium M.
Don't let this game go the way the real world did when oil companies needlesly raised their prices for gasoline. We all saw where that lead to, and was nearly disasterous. This GTC price gouging could also lead to disasterous ingame and company effects.
Stop the Price Gouging.
Stop greedy Merchants. *Note* my apologies for the text wall
Hum what is a GTC seller thinking? Well two things:
1) I'm going to sell this GTC at whatever the going rate on the board seems to be and I'm only going to drop the price if I can't sell it.
and
2) While I might have sold a 30 day time card in the past for around 150m, to me their is a big difference between dropping $15m and $35 on a time code. If 60 days where selling at 400m right now I'd take that $35 and go buy a book from White Wolf.
And really that's it for me, I'm sure some of the European guys are also considering if they can get a "discount" by buying dollar denominated GTCs.
TBH selling GTCs right now is the quickest and easiest I've ever seen it. I sold a 60 day via forums in under 5 minutes. I remember when it use to take two to four hours of forum bumps and spamming the APPROPRIATE online chat channel to sell GTCs. Names, Dates, Times, Engagements, Losses, Op-Tempo or STFU! |
Bish Ounen
Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 17:58:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Hegbard
Originally by: spud maur i would like to see is CCP set a price for these codes to be sold at with this new system they are introducing
I'm always surprised in those threads how casually people ask for a complete destruction of the game by introducing communism.
I guess I'm just old fashioned.
Heh. We Americans just did it with our latest election, no reason why EvE can't have it too!
Seriously, the lack of proper economics education in our world is sad. Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull!
|
Alzule Langley
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 18:02:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Jas Dor
TBH selling GTCs right now is the quickest and easiest I've ever seen it. I sold a 60 day via forums in under 5 minutes. I remember when it use to take two to four hours of forum bumps and spamming the APPROPRIATE online chat channel to sell GTCs.
No kidding, I sold one for the going rate just yesterday (600mil), and I was shocked at how fast it sold... Looking back, I should have asked for another 50mil...
|
Straight Chillen
Gallente Solar Wind
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 18:08:00 -
[37]
Supply and Demand? Inflation? Debasing of currency?
ZOMG ECONOMICS IN AN PLAYER DRIVEN ECONOMY!!!
Bottom line, if you dont want to pay it, then dont. Some one else will. It is the buyer who sets the price, as a GTC is only worth what you will pay for it.
Im so sorry that your isk making operations cannot afford you all the GTC's you need to keep all your accounts open, Sell some.
Also i find your awesome analysis of the Current state of the global economy. Yes it was surely the oil companies, that ****ed the economy; Not lending billions up billions to people who could never pay them back. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 18:13:00 -
[38]
How can CCP set the prices for GTC if the GTC are bought with real money from real players and sold for FAKE game currecy?
Yes I sell GTC to raise isk and yesterday I sold 4 60 codes for 550 in secs, SECS, that tells me that there is no sellers or that the sellers are out numbered by the buyers.
So get the buyers to start paying for the game with REAL money or get more sellers in by raising the prices higher and higher til there are equal number of sellers and buyers.
|
Sebea
Bottomfeeders Science and Research
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 18:18:00 -
[39]
You know, its funny to see this argument take place.
I don't care one way or another, I can afford the prices of GTC's as they are, or pay with a credit card (I try to keep my accounts paid up for 6 months)
The funny thing will be when the massive population drop happens from players no longer paying with GTC's, who can't be bothered to pay for EVE's multiple problems.
Yea yea, I know, "Great, I'll take their stuff" and "More room for us", but you have to wonder, at what point does CCP say "OK, enough is enough, pull the plug, our population is down too low".
See you can champion the "Man up" clause all you want, but when the population drops, and CCP decides they need to close shop from lack of profits from EVE, the same guys crying for everyone to suck it up, will be weeping heavily here on the forums, and I'm betting they blame the very people they are defending now.
On the flip side, the GTC sellers are aloud to sell at whatever price they want. There is no federal regulation, by CCP to stop gouging. Its a free open market. How do you compete with it? Simple, don't buy the GTC to show your lack of support for the current pricing bracket. If the cards aren't selling, they sellers will lower their prices to a point where they do sell.
Any new sellers are going to come in selling their cards at the current market rates, as there is a much higher demand than there is supply, so it would take a flood to get it right again.
I'd also like to note that isk farmers, are paying the price for those cards no matter WHAT they get set at, so true market competition is not able to happen, for even if ALL the players went on a strike refusing to buy GTCs for the inflated prices, the ISK sellers would still be out spending their billions buying up GTC's, undermining the entire concept of the free market.
|
Jas Dor
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 18:24:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Alzule Langley
No kidding, I sold one for the going rate just yesterday (600mil), and I was shocked at how fast it sold... Looking back, I should have asked for another 50mil...
I think we're going to see GTCs settle into a range around 800m once CCP introduces ingame selling of pilots licenses. 400m is doable in a week and really I suspect that most folks don't start saving for a GTC until about a week before their current game time is about to expire. (I should add that I've never made anything close to 400m in a week ratting in 0.0 but then again I'm only getting about an hour ratting to every four hours of PvP related activity).
Once one gtc = a carrier, I think we'll see more folks enter the market stabilizing the price.
Names, Dates, Times, Engagements, Losses, Op-Tempo or STFU! |
|
Tellenta
Gallente Invicta. Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 18:29:00 -
[41]
If the GTC price reached 750 mill I just might buy a gtc to sell at that price isk wise I can validate depriving myself of a bottle of Jack Daniels.
|
Letouk Mernel
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 18:36:00 -
[42]
It is supply and demand, unfortunately. Think about it:
CCP disables ghost training => characters that were previously training long skills without a subscription now need a subscription => suddenly quite a few more people NEED gtc's to keep their skills going => more demand for GTCs.
On the other side of the equation, same supply for GTCs. Believe it or not, not everyone wants to sink RL cash into a game to get worthless ISK for it, thus not many are paying cash to sell GTCs for ISK.
All in all, the result is that price of GTCs (and character sales) has increased. And will continue to increase.
|
Tellenta
Gallente Invicta. Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 18:46:00 -
[43]
I think people are making the whole thing more complicated than it really is. Though theory crafting is fun.
My opinion just lies with percieved cost. Basically more people were willing to throw $12? away for a 30 day GTC. Now that the prices are $35 for a 60 day people will throw their money away less vigorously and covet the return more.
granted it lacks the awesome graphs with bell curves and all that but thats mah theory and I'm sticking with it. Also I'm not even a part of the GTC market so I really don't care.... need to do less forum whoring going outside brb.
|
Korbann
Domini Umbrus R.U.R.
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 19:12:00 -
[44]
GTC market working as intended. Supply and demand.
|
Qordel
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 19:13:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Anslo I can still afford to pay for isk, as I said I am not begging. But I have been obtaining recent messages and conversation about this problem. I know the beginning group that has already had to leave EVE due to these prices. They simply cannot afford real money And who the hell are you to defend them? One of them perhaps?
AND THERE YOU HAVE YOUR ANSWER.
The value of a dollar has declined significantly with the current economic recession and global financial situations (such as, in the US, giving $850b to bail out lenders, $300b for Lehmen before that, $25b for automakers before that and another $300b for tax rebates, $300b for individual mortgage assistance and $25 for ANOTHER automotive bailout all coming). A couple trillion dollars pulled out of thin air will tend to make things more difficult in an already stifling economy.
People selling you their GTCs are not all wealthy. They are paying $35 hard-earned dollars for every card in a time when money is tight and people are fearing for their general financial well-being and even their jobs.
You point out that people have to quit eve because they can't afford subscriptions. Well, then the alternative to that is that you work hard to afford GTCs. Do you think that GTC sellers live in some fancy alternate universe where THEIR money is somehow worth far less at $35/pop than YOUR money is at $15 or $30 a pop that you say they're having a problem with (and as a result can't afford subscriptions).
This complaint is like going to a bakery and being outraged that the baker has raised his prices, even though his own costs have risen. And then you justify it by telling him "but money is tight! we can't afford it! You're gouging us!". Without any thought or concern for the fact that the baker himself has higher costs and can barely afford HIS expenses.
Not to mention, just because SOME people ask a higher value doesn't mean that's the going rate. SOME people may be buying at 600m but the AVERAGE is closer to 530m (and yes, I am basing this on stats compiled into a spreadsheet over the last 7 days across the GTC forum).
So the simple answer is - stop whining about price gouging when EVERYONE is in the line of the same economic fire. I'm not going to discount you GTCs because I feel like giving you a freebie. I'm not your dad. I'm a hard working person who values his money and wants to get as much as he can for it. If I could get a billion per GTC, I'd want that too. But I can't. Because people won't pay for it. So I sell them at the price people WILL pay for. It's this funny little thing called supply and demand. Called market price. Called capitalism.
If you don't like it, then scrounge up the $10.95 or $14.95/mo and PAY for your account. And if you can't afford that, then work harder to earn more isk so you can play the game for no real cash. Or don't play the game at all if that's too much of a time sink to accomplish. But don't come in here acting like you are entitled to prices that meet your particular situation while other people are gladly picking up all the available GTCs out there and paying the going rate. If you can't afford something - don't buy it. If enough people can't afford it, the price will either drop or the product will simply go away (people will decide that it isn't worth selling for the price you want to pay and simply stop participating in the trade).
And, most of all, STOP WITH THE GOD DAMNED DAILY THREADS WHINING ABOUT THIS SAME DAMN THING, PEOPLE.
At the very least, wait until the the GTC trade is merged into the in-game market. Until then, the discussion is moot because the out of game market has a limited life span remaining.
|
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 19:19:00 -
[46]
OP needs to take a damn basic economics course.
Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
|
Aalana
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 19:28:00 -
[47]
Can I have your stuff when you "inevitably" leave?
|
Mogren
CCCP INC
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 19:31:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Qordel
Originally by: Anslo I can still afford to pay for isk, as I said I am not begging. But I have been obtaining recent messages and conversation about this problem. I know the beginning group that has already had to leave EVE due to these prices. They simply cannot afford real money And who the hell are you to defend them? One of them perhaps?
AND THERE YOU HAVE YOUR ANSWER.
The value of a dollar has declined significantly with the current economic recession and global financial situations (such as, in the US, giving $850b to bail out lenders, $300b for Lehmen before that, $25b for automakers before that and another $300b for tax rebates, $300b for individual mortgage assistance and $25 for ANOTHER automotive bailout all coming). A couple trillion dollars pulled out of thin air will tend to make things more difficult in an already stifling economy.
People selling you their GTCs are not all wealthy. They are paying $35 hard-earned dollars for every card in a time when money is tight and people are fearing for their general financial well-being and even their jobs.
You point out that people have to quit eve because they can't afford subscriptions. Well, then the alternative to that is that you work hard to afford GTCs. Do you think that GTC sellers live in some fancy alternate universe where THEIR money is somehow worth far less at $35/pop than YOUR money is at $15 or $30 a pop that you say they're having a problem with (and as a result can't afford subscriptions).
This complaint is like going to a bakery and being outraged that the baker has raised his prices, even though his own costs have risen. And then you justify it by telling him "but money is tight! we can't afford it! You're gouging us!". Without any thought or concern for the fact that the baker himself has higher costs and can barely afford HIS expenses.
Not to mention, just because SOME people ask a higher value doesn't mean that's the going rate. SOME people may be buying at 600m but the AVERAGE is closer to 530m (and yes, I am basing this on stats compiled into a spreadsheet over the last 7 days across the GTC forum).
So the simple answer is - stop whining about price gouging when EVERYONE is in the line of the same economic fire. I'm not going to discount you GTCs because I feel like giving you a freebie. I'm not your dad. I'm a hard working person who values his money and wants to get as much as he can for it. If I could get a billion per GTC, I'd want that too. But I can't. Because people won't pay for it. So I sell them at the price people WILL pay for. It's this funny little thing called supply and demand. Called market price. Called capitalism.
If you don't like it, then scrounge up the $10.95 or $14.95/mo and PAY for your account. And if you can't afford that, then work harder to earn more isk so you can play the game for no real cash. Or don't play the game at all if that's too much of a time sink to accomplish. But don't come in here acting like you are entitled to prices that meet your particular situation while other people are gladly picking up all the available GTCs out there and paying the going rate. If you can't afford something - don't buy it. If enough people can't afford it, the price will either drop or the product will simply go away (people will decide that it isn't worth selling for the price you want to pay and simply stop participating in the trade).
And, most of all, STOP WITH THE GOD DAMNED DAILY THREADS WHINING ABOUT THIS SAME DAMN THING, PEOPLE.
At the very least, wait until the the GTC trade is merged into the in-game market. Until then, the discussion is moot because the out of game market has a limited life span remaining.
Well said. ++internets for you.
|
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 20:03:00 -
[49]
World in economic downturn means....
Less people selling GTC for money. More people want GTC for ISK.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell what the result is in a supply/demand driven market....
The OP, and other malcontent's should also know that it is within their power to change it if they really want to. It's a simple matter of buying some hundred GTC's every month and selling them for ISK. Problem solved!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
|
Ghost Goat
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 20:07:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Sebea
The funny thing will be when the massive population drop happens from players no longer paying with GTC's, who can't be bothered to pay for EVE's multiple problems.
i suspect this all ready started to happen. only few weeks ago one of the devs said that they are monitoring the GTC's market and they don't see anything wrong with it , and few weeks later ,out of the blue, they announce the coming changes in the GTC's mechanics .
i might be wrong off course, but imo something major happened beyond the scenes that made CCP actually move there arses and make something about it .
|
|
luminous russula
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 20:16:00 -
[51]
Edited by: luminous russula on 06/11/2008 20:15:57 this game is time consuming. if you don`t have the time to earn 15 euros a month, how can you have the time to play the game? meaning that there is nothing wrong if someone cant afford 15 euros a month, but there is something wrong if he cant afford it but does nothing about it as he keeps playing a game.
unless you are in prison or some other situation where you absolutely cannot earn the 15 a month...
|
Bish Ounen
Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 20:31:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Qordel ..A pile of really smart stuff that basically jibes with what I said way back in the 1st reply of this thread...
Congratulations Qordel.
Not only are you smart, You're a Conservative (American style). Welcome to the fold my brother, the Rush Limbaugh center for Excellence will be hosting a series of Ronald Reagan films this afternoon in the W.F. Buckley memorial theater, please feel free to drop by and have some popcorn.
Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull!
|
Popsikle
Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 20:32:00 -
[53]
ITs simple really.
Money IRL is getting tighter for most of the worlds population. People are saving more and spending less and what they are spending they are less likely to settle for what they get in return.
Last year people used to be ok with getting 150mil for 15$ now the 15$ is worth more to them because money is tighter so they want more in return?
Duh? ____ <t20> i want to be in a manager potition at Hooters <SaraDawn> Garthagk, do you have it up ? <Garthagk> I can get it up anytime. |
Xiaodown
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 20:41:00 -
[54]
Let's run the math:
At your stated prices, given: 90d GTC used to be 500m isk 60d GTC are now at 600m isk
Purely from the *seller's* point of view:
Old: 12.5m isk / $1 USD (or $0.08/1m isk) New: 17.5m isk / $1 USD (or $0.058/1m isk)
That's a significant jump in the real-world worth of "selling a GTC". But, when you think that, from the time I started playing eve (feb 06) to now, the price of gas has gone from $1.89/gal up to $4.39/gal (and is now coming back down), in this crazy recession/inflation economy, that's a reasonable increase in the value of a good.
All I'm saying is that people who play eve are not spending their hard earned money as much on buying GTCs to sell for in game currency, and instead spending it on food/gas/rent.
Simple, really. There are fewer who have the money to afford GTC's and more who would like to play eve for free. Therefore the value of the GTC goes up.
~X
--
Sig under construction.
|
Claudia Voltaire
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 20:42:00 -
[55]
Pay to play premium mmorpg, there are plenty of free alternatives, you should live by your means and consider alternatives if you're unwilling to follow the subscription model you agreed to when you signed up to play here.
Thats the bottom line.
Ofcourse yourself and many others will have started with eve because of the fact you've learned that there was a way to pay with in game currency. Consider though, the more and more people that come this way on that premise, the worse it gets, it's the same as any 'free' service, enventualy it gets swamped by demand.
At the end of the day, you're at the bottom of the food chain leetching in a free for all what you can realy, why prices will go up and up. The whole system on all sides of it is about greed, buyers, sellers, ccp.
Ohh and to quote the ex community manager... ccp have never placed a $ value on the price of isk.
Be interesting to see if they change on that one in the coming months, they seem to be desperate to increase their revenues given recent blogs and changes.
|
brinelan
Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 20:44:00 -
[56]
Blame the buyers. People sell at the price they can get away with paying. If people stopped paying 600m then sellers would lower their prices. Free market ftw! --------------------------
Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield |
Dirtee Girl
Omega Enterprises 0mega Factor
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 20:44:00 -
[57]
if your cant afford to pay for regular subscription costs then it's over for you personally i think that gtc's for ingame cash was BS anyways and only meant to curb RMT . adapt or unsubcribe .
i dunno what people think is going on here but there aint hundreds of guys out there amassing isk endlessly thru GTC at some point they get what they need and stop . it's not like they need billions upon billions for personal use .
if you cant afford subscriptions at all you shouldn't be here in the first place , and no i dont want your stuff .
*
* |
Hyveres
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 20:53:00 -
[58]
It should be said that the dollar has strenghtened itself against most currencies(the yen being an exception) and that means a price hike for those of us not living in the states on top of the price increase for the cards themselves.
This also leads to fewer GTCs entering the market.
|
Gut Punch
Shade. Penumbra Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 21:00:00 -
[59]
@OP: Dude learn how the free market works. The system is working as intended. If you think GTCs are overpriced, don't use them. Get off your lazy butt and go to your local bank to open a DEBIT card. FFS you can probably get them to send you one without leaving the keyboard. Do not bring your socialist price fixing into the market.
|
Qordel
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 21:18:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Bish Ounen
Congratulations Qordel.
Not only are you smart, You're a Conservative (American style). Welcome to the fold my brother, the Rush Limbaugh center for Excellence will be hosting a series of Ronald Reagan films this afternoon in the W.F. Buckley memorial theater, please feel free to drop by and have some popcorn.
Libertarian, actually. With free-market views on the GTC market.
This is why I am enthusiastic about the in-game market regarding GTCs in the near future. More information; less regulation.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |