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ArmyOfMe Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.11.06 21:16:00 - [1] Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 06/11/2008 21:18:49 You say you think the tempest is fine and everything is balanced in regards to minmatar ship. but can you please go to FFA 1 and spend a few hours sitting there and count the number of tempests you see there. the last two days ive spent around 5 hours at the ffa 1 and ive seen 3 tempests during those hours. ive spent countless hours on sisi and cant remember seeing a vargur in the ffa at all expect the days when they first came out on sisi. so please have a second look at minmatar ship before you say they are fine Originally by: deadmaus Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything
Dirtee Girl Omega Enterprises 0mega Factor	Posted - 2008.11.06 21:26:00 - [2] honestly i think the guns are the problem they need a SLIGHT dammage increase * *
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.11.06 22:23:00 - [3] Edited by: Tzar''rim on 06/11/2008 22:25:53 It's lower on armor than other tier 2 BS (that includes the Raven) and has less kinetic resists, in favour of EM. Kinetic is a lot more used than EM and with most tanking setups EM will already be high up so that's 2 strikes already. It also can not deal the DPS other tier 2 BS can dish out, the only redeeming factors are having 5 midslots. it's sig radius and the fact it's guns don't use cap. Bravo!
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.11.06 23:13:00 - [4] but it can kite megathrons and tickle them to death in 1v1's....... /sarcasm ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.06 23:34:00 - [5] Minmatar ships are fine. It's just that there is waaaaaaay to many noobs out there who don't even bother with Minmatar ships because they don't have the balls to use them or simply because you need **** tons of skills to use Minmatar ships good, and you need ALOT of experience with the Minmatar ships to be able to use them good, because using Minmatar is hard mode. And they also don't use Minmatar, because all what the FOTM chasers and EFT warriors are saying are always true. That's the reason why you don't see many Tempest's / Minmatar ships in FFA 1. If you ask me, Tempest is pretty nice. Check out my new flash web page 'Alpha Strike'
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.11.06 23:38:00 - [6] Vargur might need a look over but I think tempest is going to get indirectly boosted by this patch anyway and will be pretty good. I've even now seen skilled pilots pull of crazy stuff in those things, the key is to use each ships strong side instead of shoe horning it into a role it wasn't meant to fill. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.06 23:39:00 - [7] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Vargur might need a look over but I think tempest is going to get indirectly boosted by this patch anyway Yeah, since preety much everything else is gimped for solo purposes except a Dominix Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.11.06 23:43:00 - [8] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Vargur might need a look over but I think tempest is going to get indirectly boosted by this patch anyway Yeah, since preety much everything else is gimped for solo purposes except a Dominix Yeah those damn domis! ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise
Kayosoni Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.11.07 00:19:00 - [9] Originally by: ArmyOfMe Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 06/11/2008 21:18:49 You say you think the tempest is fine and everything is balanced in regards to minmatar ship. but can you please go to FFA 1 and spend a few hours sitting there and count the number of tempests you see there. the last two days ive spent around 5 hours at the ffa 1 and ive seen 3 tempests during those hours. ive spent countless hours on sisi and cant remember seeing a vargur in the ffa at all expect the days when they first came out on sisi. so please have a second look at minmatar ship before you say they are fine ............................ are you seriously suggesting that the effectiveness of a ship should be determined by how many people use it on a test server FFA? tempests are fine ships, and anyone who doesn't think so is using it wrong (or please explain why besides "no one on sisi uses it!") -----------------------------------
El Mauru Amarr Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.07 00:48:00 - [10] tempest is doing fine imho. It's not the best fleet-bs but definitely among the most versatile in its class. Add to that the patch and the resulting necessity to fit heavy neuts to hold your own against smaller ships and things suddenly don't look all that shabby anymore. Just my 2 cents -
God's Secret	Posted - 2008.11.07 00:50:00 - [11] Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 06/11/2008 23:37:48 Minmatar ships are fine. It's just that there is waaaaaaay to many noobs out there who don't even bother with Minmatar ships because they don't have the balls to use them or simply because you need **** tons of skills to use Minmatar ships good, and you need ALOT of experience with the Minmatar ships to be able to use them good, because using Minmatar is hard mode. And they also don't use Minmatar, because all what the FOTM chasers and EFT warriors are saying are always true. That's the reason why you don't see many Tempest's / Minmatar ships in FFA 1. It's not a suprise that most are going for the easy modes in EVE. Even i can do it, but is that fun?. If you ask me, Tempest is pretty nice. I completely agree, the Tempest is a very cool ship with a major drawback, the powergrid.. witch i hope it will be twicked as i belive it should be able to fit a full rack of 1400's and mwd without fitting mods/rigs.. the same way the Mega can fit a full rack of 425's and mwd, for the simple reason that it lacks any direct sniping bonuses while being the only minnie choice for a sniping platform.. while all other races do have sniping platforms with relevant bonuses, and the often mentioned "superb alpha" is not something that can compensate for that.. Besides that, i can agree is not one of the best 1vs1 choice out there but you have the Phoon for that.. on the other hand is the best rr bs platform(non faction/t2), does not have the cpu issues that the mega/geddon have, does not need to drop a gun to fit 2 rr's etc.. and that should count for sumthin'.. even so powergrid is a bigger issue than it should be, and i think is the only thing that needs to be worked to get it inline with all other tier2 bs's.. Becauss the Vargur was mentioned in the OP, a small comment was due.. The worst design choice regarding a single ship i can think of is the Vargur, while all the other Marauders are more or less inline this ship falls Behind in all aspects... I can't understand why the Vargur is the only marauder with the 6/5 med/low slot repartition while being the only turret user of the two shield tankers, being the one ship that actualy needs a web to hit stuff unlike the Golem, even so it has 1 less mid slot.. The AC's that it's suposed to use are by a very big margin the worst choice of pve weapons in comparison to the other 3 Marauders, they do not have the optimals of Megapulses with Scorch or 425's or the choice of damage type the way the Golem does, because fighting at falloff with anything except Barrage is moronic in pve, so they end up fighting at falloff ranges(dishing lame dps) and stuck with one ammo type.. Alot should be done to bring the Vargur in line with the other Marauders, starting with a similar slot repartition to the other shield tanker(the way the armor tankers are) and changing the AC's for Artys witch are far beter pve weapons .. witch means 2 things.. 1. changing the bonuses to make it a viable arty platform, and 2. ALOT more powergrid, to fit them.. But then again.. things like this have been sayed for a long time now, and things don't seem to change.. GG CCP
ArmyOfMe Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.11.07 07:05:00 - [12] Originally by: Kayosoni are you seriously suggesting that the effectiveness of a ship should be determined by how many people use it on a test server FFA? no, im not suggesting that, but the total lack of tempests could be a indication that it might not be as fine as the devs say. Originally by: Kayosoni tempests are fine ships, and anyone who doesn't think so is using it wrong (or please explain why besides "no one on sisi uses it!") It's not that they are not fine ships, I just want the tempest to become a little more then just fine. granted that the nano nerf might actually become a major boost to the tempest since it can fit dual webs and heavy neuts. that still doesnt change the fact that the tempest could use some more armor, that projectiles needs some love etc etc Originally by: deadmaus Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything
Kalintos Tyl Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.07 07:33:00 - [13] open any alliance killboard , you will see that there are more ravens than tempest in kills . And msot will be megathrons . 5x more than tempest or even more. If its so good than why its so least used ? :D Quote: It's not a good idea to place a Exotic Dancers in a Giant Secure Container. The Exotic Dancers will not survive intact, if transported in such a container. [url="http://dl.eve-files.c
Tuncan Minmatar Arbitrary Freedom	Posted - 2008.11.07 07:45:00 - [14] Edited by: Tuncan on 07/11/2008 07:47:05 the population is nothing, i like to see my ships used low. The reasons are 1-)Some people are not meant for the pvp,its even harder in a pest 2-)high sp requirement. 3-)There are more caldaris than mataris.Simply because "achura monk" lol 4-)Raven is a good pve ship.So anyone can simply change the fit to pvp and fight with it
Kalintos Tyl Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.07 07:51:00 - [15] well then say why like week ago tempest had 30% less aiglity to mega ? Mega was s obuffed in terms in agility. But tempest wre fine ? Stop trolling. Mealstorm and tempest simply suck. Yes you can win vs mega but how long it will take ? 3 minutes before his cap charges will run off while you back of at 23km neuting him? Thats crap ship. Face it if i ever fly tesmpest i will go dor 4 torps setup + 2 neuts + 2 rr becouse large projectiles suck so badly. But i wont do this i can have phoon for setup like that. Torps do mroe damage and ahve greater optimal, AND TOO DONT USE CAP SO STFU ABOUT CAPLESS TURETS. Quote: It's not a good idea to place a Exotic Dancers in a Giant Secure Container. The Exotic Dancers will not survive intact, if transported in such a container. [url="http://dl.eve-files.c
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.11.07 08:59:00 - [16] we are good in 1v1's because we can kite our opponents with our superior speed and use neuts to take out the enemies..... yay that's great and I spose we have to pay for it somehow, I think however we are paying waaay to much in other areas for it. While we still have ships that can do pve we are the worst of the races, maelstrom and typhoon are our 2 choices that can do most lvl 4 missions at a competitive speed but aren't able to match the other races (this is before we get to the mauraders). Now fleets we have a few good options which involve webbing and scramming, logistics is ok, command ships maybe (will see after patch) tbh asside from tackler I can't see a reason other than high utility slots to fly many of the minmatar ships in fleets if you can fly another race. tempest is fine in solo pvp, minmatar is not fine in fleet/pve and kiting a mega does not make up for coming last in the 2 biggest parts of eve. ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
ArmyOfMe Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.11.07 09:18:00 - [17] Originally by: Typhado3 tempest is fine in solo pvp, minmatar is not fine in fleet/pve and kiting a mega does not make up for coming last in the 2 biggest parts of eve. kiting the mega isnt really easy since the mega has pretty good range with null ammo, and if your at longer range then that your out of scram range most of the time Originally by: deadmaus Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.11.07 09:25:00 - [18] Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: Typhado3 tempest is fine in solo pvp, minmatar is not fine in fleet/pve and kiting a mega does not make up for coming last in the 2 biggest parts of eve. kiting the mega isnt really easy since the mega has pretty good range with null ammo, and if your at longer range then that your out of scram range most of the time Well it¦s funny to come across this in so many Threads. Hint, you can¦t kite a Mega that is not flown solo any more, or more likely not flown at all any more. Also Devs stated Blaster Ships and Blasters will do better with the patch, and there are no real issues with getting close and hit with Blasters and stuff, so if they say the Tempest is fine it will be true I gess. Or may by not how knows. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Kalintos Tyl Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.07 10:52:00 - [19] Originally by: The Djego Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: Typhado3 tempest is fine in solo pvp, minmatar is not fine in fleet/pve and kiting a mega does not make up for coming last in the 2 biggest parts of eve. kiting the mega isnt really easy since the mega has pretty good range with null ammo, and if your at longer range then that your out of scram range most of the time Well it¦s funny to come across this in so many Threads. Hint, you can¦t kite a Mega that is not flown solo any more, or more likely not flown at all any more. Also Devs stated Blaster Ships and Blasters will do better with the patch, and there are no real issues with getting close and hit with Blasters and stuff, so if they say the Tempest is fine it will be true I gess. Or may by not how knows. otimal+falloff is smae for ac/blasters blasters got higher raqw damage, Well of you happy to outdamage antimater mega with barrage at 35km+ well...... Quote: It's not a good idea to place a Exotic Dancers in a Giant Secure Container. The Exotic Dancers will not survive intact, if transported in such a container.
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.11.07 11:38:00 - [20] Originally by: Kalintos Tyl Originally by: The Djego Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: Typhado3 tempest is fine in solo pvp, minmatar is not fine in fleet/pve and kiting a mega does not make up for coming last in the 2 biggest parts of eve. kiting the mega isnt really easy since the mega has pretty good range with null ammo, and if your at longer range then that your out of scram range most of the time Well it¦s funny to come across this in so many Threads. Hint, you can¦t kite a Mega that is not flown solo any more, or more likely not flown at all any more. Also Devs stated Blaster Ships and Blasters will do better with the patch, and there are no real issues with getting close and hit with Blasters and stuff, so if they say the Tempest is fine it will be true I gess. Or may by not how knows. otimal+falloff is smae for ac/blasters blasters got higher raqw damage, Well of you happy to outdamage antimater mega with barrage at 35km+ well...... Im preaty shure you didn¦t get the the message I wrote down. You can stop compare the Mega with the Pest now, Blaster ships are fixed out of the game, AKs got huge Issues to. There won¦t be any Pest vs Mega 1o1s any more since people won¦t solo in Megas any more. DPS and range comparence in 1o1 situations between ships that lost most of her solo ability is pointless. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.07 12:02:00 - [21] Originally by: The Djego There won¦t be any Pest vs Mega 1o1s any more since people won¦t solo in Megas any more. DPS and range comparence in 1o1 situations between ships that lost most of her solo ability is pointless. This is why this thread is really redundant. Particularly the first part Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2008.11.07 12:15:00 - [22] Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 07/11/2008 12:17:39 for some reason i skilled minnie bs to V, can't remember why. sure, i was minnie and i wanted to take part in what's necessary to hold space. - the long version is a bit of a scam since it has to rely on falloff to get there. and we all know what that does to the resulting damage. - the powergrid has failed it epically. before apoc V users come rushing in; no, our smaller arties start off at ~85km, your mega beams at 150km. and even 7 of those dish out more damage than a "full" rack of 1200mm. - due to the powergrid issue, projectile rigs never made it into the inner circle either - nor would it really help since the weapon is "split" there aswell: laser are purely optimal, so you can boost that. for the same effect, minnies would have to boost optimal and falloff. sure, i could work on the optimal, but then falloff rigs? not with that pg i dont mind the sacrificed low slot in favor of a med slot. i do mind being required to blow at least one more on reactor controls. and i'll accept your "cap issue" (cause we have our own) - and raise you clip size at least i haven't seen the "choice of damage types" argument come along yet, so i still have hope in the knowledge of this forum. - putting the gist back into logistics
Kalintos Tyl Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.07 12:20:00 - [23] Originally by: The Djego ok then how many you see: rail megas, arty tempests in fleet batles ? Mhm megas are like 10x more or even greater. Quote: It's not a good idea to place a Exotic Dancers in a Giant Secure Container. The Exotic Dancers will not survive intact, if transported in such a container.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.07 12:27:00 - [24] Originally by: Kalintos Tyl Originally by: The Djego ok then how many you see: rail megas, arty tempests in fleet batles ? Mhm megas are like 10x more or even greater. Sniper BS are not solo ships and people using Megas/Tempests are merely going for a subpar choice because they can't be trained to train large energy turret V + Amarr BS IV/V or simply Caldari BS IV/V, both of which net you a superior sniper to both. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Kalintos Tyl Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.07 12:29:00 - [25] that didnt answer question Quote: It's not a good idea to place a Exotic Dancers in a Giant Secure Container. The Exotic Dancers will not survive intact, if transported in such a container.
Strill	Posted - 2008.11.07 12:30:00 - [26] Originally by: Kalintos Tyl Originally by: The Djego ok then how many you see: rail megas, arty tempests in fleet batles ? Mhm megas are like 10x more or even greater. Just for the heck of it, what ranges do rail megas and arty tempests in fleets usually fight at?
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.07 12:33:00 - [27] Originally by: Kalintos Tyl that didnt answer question Question is not relevant for discussion tbh. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.11.07 12:43:00 - [28] Originally by: Kalintos Tyl Originally by: The Djego ok then how many you see: rail megas, arty tempests in fleet batles ? Mhm megas are like 10x more or even greater. I actual don¦t do mutch fleet battles, but I hate my Mega caping out at pos shooting what is kind of anoying. In my time at V Evoke used a very high amout of Pests in her fleets(even won the Turnament with a fleet of Arti Ruptures ) but most people simply fly the Fleet BS from the race they are skilled in, or we would probalby see Apoc only Fleets at this point. It only indicates that are more people skilled the Gallente BS way(yes I know multiply Mini Pilots that don¦t skilled the BS or never skilled the T2 BS Turrets so they flying Antisupport ships that got realy important in the Nano age for fleets like Huggin, Rapier and Sabre or the Claymore). Mega does better in DPS, Range and Fitting but it is quite painfull that you cap out quite fast while MWDing out of a bubble or warping around that prevents the ship from firing. But on the other Hand the Apoc outdoes the Mega easy so why complain about the Mega at this point? ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Kalintos Tyl Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.07 12:48:00 - [29] mega dont cap out fast, try geddon. Quote: It's not a good idea to place a Exotic Dancers in a Giant Secure Container. The Exotic Dancers will not survive intact, if transported in such a container.
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.11.07 12:57:00 - [30] Originally by: Kalintos Tyl mega dont cap out fast, try geddon. I did, since I got a 2. Char that is speced in Amarr, Mega caps out faster after fitting in my personal experience. Also the ability to fire without reloading every 2 Minutes is quite nice if you shoot down POS while reading a good book. On the other hand I think you getting quite off topic here, since the Thread is about that the Pest is fine in the Devs experience, don¦t need any changes and some people like to disagree. Not about im Minmatar, my ship suck the most of all. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.

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