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Dr Chicago	Posted - 2008.11.12 03:15:00 - [31] I salvage for a living but I prefer my own label other then Ninja Salvager or whatever label du jour Ill learn to work the saxophone Ill play just what I feel Drink scotch whisky all night long And die behind the wheel They got a name for the winners in the world I want a name when I lose They call alabama the crimson tide Call me "deacon blues" Best Regards
Franconian Eagle Core Element	Posted - 2008.11.12 11:26:00 - [32] Ninja salvaging is a really fun and relaxing activity, especially if you don't have much time in the evening. Furthermore you get lots of training with probes and the scanner, this is always useful. And the added bonus of carebear tears and rage and desperation is simply amazing. Everyone should have tried it at least once.
Dasalt Istgut	Posted - 2008.11.12 12:23:00 - [33] Only thing about ninja salvaging is for the amount of work it is the money isn't very good to be honest.
RedSplat Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.11.12 12:24:00 - [34] Edited by: RedSplat on 12/11/2008 12:25:14 Originally by: Lieff The point is the mission runner does have some risk, while you have zero. Risk vs reward? There is no risk to a MR. If an MR loses a ship in a mission, to rats, he is an idiot and any profitable activity will be risky for that individual; be it risk derived from isk lost directly or indirectly. Lief, while you seem to hate Ninja salvaging (and homosexuality) with a passion, it is clear you don't know anything about it; ninja salvaging that is. I am still wavering as to just ignore you and label you a troll but you seem to at least make the effort of putting forwards a logical (if flawed) argument so i cant be sure. Have a nice day. Edited for ubiquitous spelling mistakes
PenisTugger	Posted - 2008.11.12 13:22:00 - [35] Originally by: Lieff Originally by: Kahega Amielden I agree. They should add an element of risk to ninjasalvaging, comparable to the massive risk that level 4 missionrunners ha- Oh ****. There's a greater risk to me (getting my expensive probing ship instapopped by Recon 3/3 or stray aggro) than there is to any halfway competent missioner. The point is the mission runner does have some risk, while you have zero. Risk vs reward? Most missioners probably wont engage as it'll likely turn out to be a trap anyway, but at least they can do something about it if they choose....and would give corps the option to trap ninja salvagers also. Making ninja salvaging a flashy red action will add not detract from the profession, and the game. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO RLY U make me sick (ingame)
Ulfskein Gangr Caldari Vile Rune Guild Silex Union	Posted - 2008.11.12 13:37:00 - [36] Originally by: Lieff Do rocks shoot at you? Do you have to expend ammo on said rocks, before you can mine them? Comparing ninja salvaging to mining is fairly moronic, not even close to being the same. Just make it the same as can stealing / loot stealing, dont remove it, just add a risk for whoever is stealing (and potentially more reward also, if someone takes the bait). This would turn ninja salvaging into an actual 'dishonest' profession, instead of being possibly the lamest way to make isk in eve, as it stands right now. Red flashy from stealing salvage would be a GOOD thing, for all involved. Although not particularly fond of the term "ninja salvaging" (although it does have a certain charm, I suppose), I have spent a significant amount of in-game time in this occupation and always fall back on it when times are lean or I just happen to be anywhere near a system with a half-dozen faction battleships droning away like bloated ticks back and forth from station to deadspace... sigh so many wrecks, so little time. There is no connection as far as I can see between salvaging and mining. Their only resemblance at all is that neither of the activities involve direct confrontation or engagement with another pilot. This is unfortunately the limit at which I can agree with your commentary however. If... if... for some reason it was made a criminal act to salvage wrecks made by some mission runner/ratter, then I can personally guarantee you that I will respond by not only doubling my productivity in the "looting the scrap metal from beneath you" practice, but will additionally no longer have any qualms about lifting all of the cargo as well (which I normally leave untouched for your majesty) and probably flip some cans too on the way out of the system, just for good measure. You really don't want to give scavengers that much of a squeeze, do you? Its really too bad that you must see scavenging as a dishonest profession... I think it would be only fair then to assess mission running as a "filthy pastime for litterbugs" due to the horrible and grievous way that all these wrecks fill up my scanner. "Boy, things like that should just be made illegal or something... Or maybe a heavy fine could be placed on the inconsiderate trolls responsible..." The logic is the same. I welcome you to challenge it. There is some risk involved with pulling wrecks from missioners, whether you can accept this or not. At times the risk can be even greater for someone "dropping in" than the actual mission runner him/herself... Risk is not the issue here though. If it was then you wouldn't be complaining about salvagers invading a hi-sec utopia where hundreds of billions of ISK in rewards and bounties have been carefully spent waxing and polishing custom navy-issue battleships (ideally designed for combat in military operations, mind you) that never leave Empire space and never see any actual engagement. No, risk is not even an issue here. The issue is pure greed, mixed with an incapability to deal with the simple facts. If you don't want to interact with other human beings, then you wouldn't be in the forums. If you don't want to have others profit from your wrecks, then pick them up or destroy them. If you are incapable of taking adequate measures to keep your own occupation streamlined, then perhaps you need to re-evaluate your profession. And the last bit about salvaging being "possibly the lamest way to make isk in eve"... I urge you to reconsider. If it makes ISK, then its a living. Add it up, bright boy. There are plenty of folks who consider mission running to be a more suitable candidate for the "lamest way" award but what does it matter? That would be like a coyote criticizing a domestic sheep for a lack of style. A moot point to be sure. Q: Would the "red flashy" solution apply to player wrecks as well? Think about it...
DegosofPolar Venom.	Posted - 2008.11.12 14:21:00 - [37] Originally by: Ulfskein Gangr ... Add it up, bright boy. There are plenty of folks who consider mission running to be a more suitable candidate for the "lamest way" award but what does it matter? That would be like a coyote criticizing a domestic sheep for a lack of style. A moot point to be sure. .... HAHAHA, bolded sumarize it all I can't really find any sympathy for the mission carebear in a ship, probably with a value way past the billion, telling me when I ninja-salvage, that what I do is the single isk making thing in eve without any risk! A guy told me this, and in the next sentence he was calling me a puss and saying he was gonna wardec my corp..... Talk about stepping in his own mouth!
Miniturret Amarr Rum Runners Inc	Posted - 2008.11.12 14:45:00 - [38] yet another thread about ninja salvaging. sigh i'm just going to keep referring to my first post in this thread. The basics of the post for those that don't feel like clicking the link. Who here remembers when salvaging first came out and if loot was in the wreck you were not able to salvage it unless you took the loot first. CCP deemed it a glitch in the coding and re-worked it to it's current state. They have since deemed it working as intended. There are other ways to deal with ninja salvagers that have been listed other places.
Joe Zalt	Posted - 2008.11.18 07:28:00 - [39] Edited by: Joe Zalt on 18/11/2008 07:32:05 Ah! Another thread about the ninja salvaging profession. Well as for me, I am not in it for the money. Nor, necessarily, to annoy people. I rather like the challenge of defeating other humans (particularly the unwilling and innocent) in a contest of speed, skill, and competition. I like it when I arrive just as the missionrunner finishes the killing - so I can race him to the choicest wrecks. I like probing down a Worlds Collide and stealing the Overseer when the 'runner is working in a different room. Oh yes, ninja salvaging is at its most fun when it is player-versus-player. I like knowing how to use the scanner and the probes, knowing how to use the solar system map, the tricks of setting up bookmark networks, the complexities of ship fitting. These require wit and skill beyond anything mission-runners use. I also like the social aspect of it. Ninja salvaging alone is hardly as fun as ninja salvaging as a team. For a newbie, ninja salvaging is a way to make millions of ISK per hour, a veritable fortune in their eyes, and also a way for a week-old greenhorn to make ebay-bought 2003 characters cry sweet tears. Often I will try to recruit a gang and just run constant probes and fleetwarp my newbies from mission to mission. I don't even want the salvage. I hope that clears up some of the myths!
Joe Starbreaker Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.11.18 07:33:00 - [40] PS: That guy was me.
Moya81	Posted - 2008.11.18 08:43:00 - [41] Bad things happen to MR's that try to be greedy about their wrecks... Little fun story that happened some time back while i was ninja salvaging + looting a few mission runners. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=833572
Misina Arlath Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.18 15:06:00 - [42] Originally by: Lieff The point is the mission runner does have some risk, while you have zero. Risk vs reward? Who's socks are you smoking? Mission running being a risk? The only time mission running is a risk is when you arse around in low-sec or if you are playing while drunk. In fact, given that the mission runner has already prepared the proper resists and knows the mission he's in, the ninja-salvager is running a bigger risk since he might get blown up if the mission runner starts a warp-out thing. In fact, I've had several ninja-salvagers get blown up doing so in my own missions. To further poke into the subject of the thread, after you kill an NPC, the wreck belongs to the NPC, not you. That means it's the property of the NPC and you get flagged towards the NPC's corp for salvaging the wreck, in the case of you wanting salvage to get flagged. In fact, the loot also technically belongs to the NPC and not you, thus loot should really be free for all, and flag them towards the NPC's corp. However, because CCP are really nice and care about the carebears, they flagged the loot for you to own. And now you want the wrecks too? Next you'll want free ammo and LP rewards. You get the mission reward, you get the loot, you get the LP rewards, and you cry over someone bottom-feeding on the crumbles left on your cookieplatter. Talk about greed. -------------------------------------------------- "Every complex problem has a solution which is easy, neat and wrong!"
Takvar	Posted - 2008.11.18 15:52:00 - [43] When I do it, it's to earn some isk while getting in scanning practice. Laws of the sea: You walk away from it, I can salvage it. If a mission runner doesn't want to lose salvage swag, he should stay around and salvage his wrecks. Most MRs don't like to do that. They want to bookmark the wrecks, go onto the next mission and come back later with a salvage destroyer (or send along a junior corpie to sweep up their leavings). Some MRs don't salvage at all. They just want to shoot stuff. I don't ninja salvage if the MR is on site. That may be legal, but I'm a courteous soul and not there to get in your face.
RedSplat Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:03:00 - [44] Originally by: Takvar I don't ninja salvage if the MR is on site. That may be legal, but I'm a courteous soul and not there to get in your face. I don't want to set the world on fire
Joe Starbreaker Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:16:00 - [45] Originally by: Takvar I don't ninja salvage if the MR is on site. That may be legal, but I'm a courteous soul and not there to get in your face. LOL! It's not FUN if the runner isn't there.
Marlenus Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.11.19 05:55:00 - [46] Actually Brother Joe, I find it more fun if the MR isn't there ... so long as he comes back in a salvage destroyer and gets that WTF? moment when he doesn't find anything. ------------------ Ironfleet.com
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.11.19 13:09:00 - [47] Originally by: Marlenus Actually Brother Joe, I find it more fun if the MR isn't there ... so long as he comes back in a salvage destroyer and gets that WTF? moment when he doesn't find anything. Heh. I hope everybody's read your Blog, to see the "Mission Statement" for Ironfleet. Speaks volumes.
Kai Dorfman SkillzKillz United For 0rder	Posted - 2008.11.19 13:25:00 - [48] Hmm i used to hate these guys too... then i realised they deserved my salvage because they were working far harder to get it than i was. for example: me: talk to agent > Get Mission > Warp to mission > Lock targets > Targets Die > OMFG i cant be arsed salvaging after all that effort! Ninja Salvager: Think nasty thoughts > Undock in Probe ship > Laugh Menacingly > Drop Probe > Run Scan > Check Findings > See carebear on Scans > Laugh Menacingly as you enter warp > Approach carebear > Recieve Carebear's Smack > in local > Start salvaging carebears salvage! See my theory makes sence! Now... A few ideas to help prevent being Violated... Step 1: Buy a Golem fit 2 tractor beams 1 salvager Step 2: Make a friend and get him to salvage for you as you go. Step 3: Suicide the little ****er Step 4: Beging blowing up your own wrecks Step 5: Learn to Speak Russian so you can communicate properly with the ninja salvager and ask him pilotely to stop Step 6: Stop being a carebear and learn to PVP!!!!!!!! I hope this is helpful
RedSplat Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.11.19 13:28:00 - [49] Originally by: Kai Dorfman I hope this is helpful Da! I don't want to set the world on fire
Sans Honore Gallente Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.11.19 19:26:00 - [50] A couple of weeks ago I had a member of Suddenly Ninjas warp in to my wreck field during a level 4 in Dodixie. I don't particularly care for salvaging a mission after I've finished it, so I convoed the salvager and told them to take what they wish. I wound up having a pleasant conversation with the person and made a new friend in Eve in the process. I only run missions to take a break from exploration, so it's not my "bread and butter" for making isk in game. I don't want the ****, let the Ninjas have it. Much love for my Ninjas.
Khraunus Amarr Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.11.19 19:49:00 - [51] Originally by: Marlenus Actually Brother Joe, I find it more fun if the MR isn't there ... so long as he comes back in a salvage destroyer and gets that WTF? moment when he doesn't find anything. Qoutin dis' cuz i'm down. Most importantly, how are you supposed to tell whether this is part of my post or my signature?
Joe Starbreaker Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.11.19 20:26:00 - [52] Edited by: Joe Starbreaker on 19/11/2008 20:26:19 Originally by: Kai Dorfman Step 5: Learn to Speak Russian so you can communicate properly with the ninja salvager and ask him pilotely to stop Funny you mention this. I find that my study of Mandarin Chinese has helped me, as a ninja, to communicate with my most dedicated mission-running victims and increase my collection of carebear tears and smack. Really.
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2008.11.20 04:32:00 - [53] u get a wide variety of thoughts and responses on this.
NullRazor Minmatar GEOSALVAGE FOUNDRIES	Posted - 2008.11.20 14:16:00 - [54] I run missions on occasion, and personally, I see salvaging as just another way to get by in the game. Everyone chooses a path, and salvaging is just another avenue to the same end. Normally, when I mission, a corp mate runs loot/salvage. But, if I'm out there and a salvager comes along, that just means I can move on to the next mission that much faster. It is far easier to just get on with it. Salvagers deserve a living too.. by whatever means they choose. If some runner gets ****ed, and draws agro for their mistake, that is their own problem.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.11.20 14:36:00 - [55] Originally by: Sans Honore I wound up having a pleasant conversation with the person and made a new friend in Eve in the process. We're not all Hellfire and Brimstone. Originally by: Sans Honore Much love for my Ninjas. o7
Brego Tralowski Gallente Forever Night	Posted - 2008.11.20 15:45:00 - [56] hi all, Well when i mission run i wouldn't mind letting someone else salvage and take the loot from the wrecks. I just cant be bothered to salvage really and if someone else can make some isk from it then thats fine (as long as they dont take the mission loot needed to complete a mission). I always turn in the mission as soon as im done, so they need to grab as much as possible before it dissapears, but im cool with that. I consider them the bin men and women of the galaxy! Have fun and fly safe
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.11.20 15:50:00 - [57] Originally by: Brego Tralowski I always turn in the mission as soon as im done, so they need to grab as much as possible before it dissapears, but im cool with that. As long as they've found and bookmarked the Deadspace pocket, don't worry about the wrecks - everything sticks around for about 2 hours anyhow. Smart Ninjas will make sure to bookmark each gate, so that they can maximize on their returns.
Brego Tralowski Gallente Forever Night	Posted - 2008.11.20 16:56:00 - [58] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Brego Tralowski I always turn in the mission as soon as im done, so they need to grab as much as possible before it dissapears, but im cool with that. As long as they've found and bookmarked the Deadspace pocket, don't worry about the wrecks - everything sticks around for about 2 hours anyhow. Smart Ninjas will make sure to bookmark each gate, so that they can maximize on their returns. Ah even better for them then, salvage away!
Ming Tari Amarr The Crimson Imperium	Posted - 2008.11.21 07:43:00 - [59] I guess I could be labeled as a carebear. I prefer player, pilot, or mission runner. There is only one circumstance where I get slightly annoyed is when someone, not of my corp, salvages the wrecks I generate. That's in mission pockets for missions I haven't handed in, AKA active missions. It is in this one situation where I think unsolicited salvaging should carry the same risk as loot/can stealing. Now I know that there are going to be "ninja" salvagers flaming me for this view point but, I know for a fact, that there are thousands of missions run, every day, where wrecks are left in space to de-rez after a turn in. I'm the weirdo your mother warned you about.
Bud Johnson Tacos Revolution CODE RED ALLIANCE	Posted - 2008.11.21 08:19:00 - [60] Originally by: Ming Tari I guess I could be labeled as a carebear. I prefer player, pilot, or mission runner. There is only one circumstance where I get slightly annoyed is when someone, not of my corp, salvages the wrecks I generate. That's in mission pockets for missions I haven't handed in, AKA active missions. It is in this one situation where I think unsolicited salvaging should carry the same risk as loot/can stealing. Now I know that there are going to be "ninja" salvagers flaming me for this view point but, I know for a fact, that there are thousands of missions run, every day, where wrecks are left in space to de-rez after a turn in. Probing down one mission and salvaging is alot faster (more profitable) than tipping your space hat and politely launching probes until you happen on an empty one. the loot in the can belongs to whoever scored the kill, the crushed flaming crap floating around it belongs to whoever gets to it first.

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