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RedSplat Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.11.08 12:40:00 - [1] So, there's been a fair bit on the boards about salvaging and ninja salvaging lately; both trolling and people that just want to know more about it. So, i thought to myself (yes lief i am capable of complex thought processes on occasion) why not explode some of the myths surrounding it. I thought to myself- Lets start a thread where SN and any of our peers in the business can drop by and enlighten the community as to anything they want to know about our noble profession. Then i thought, this will get trolled. Horribly. Then i realized where i was posting it, i did so. So,
0rch1d Caldari Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.11.08 12:57:00 - [2] Edited by: 0rch1d on 08/11/2008 13:00:00 This won't end well, I'm afraid.
Kehmor Caldari Malevolent Emo Herders Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.11.08 16:55:00 - [3] I have a question: Why put so much effort in to a method of griefing that is not only not very profitable but is also dull, and fails to actually iritate anyone of an intelligence and is merely a minor annoyance to the average carebear? Not trying to flame you, you're free to do as you like? - Violence isn't the answer, it is the question. The answer is yes.
Brother Nightfall Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.11.08 17:52:00 - [4] Originally by: Kehmor I have a question: Why put so much effort in to a method of griefing that is not only not very profitable but is also dull, and fails to actually iritate anyone of an intelligence and is merely a minor annoyance to the average carebear? Not trying to flame you, you're free to do as you like? Hmm, I'll bite. First, to call what we do griefing is, quite frankly, inane. Check the nearest Crumplecorn sig for enlightenment on this point. In terms of profitability, considering you can be a viable member of our corporation with less than a week's training, then I think ninjaing offers a fantastic income for a young player. Of course, carebears close this gap and overtake over time, but only through mindless grinding of a type that, frankly, I'm not prepared to entertain in a pastime I'm paying for. This brings me on to your next topic: dull. Personally, I find hunting down other players very interesting. Every deadspace I go into offers a new and fresh encounter, which can hardly be said of a mission runner's experience. Sometimes, you meet someone really nice, and things end with mutual respect and fair play all round. Sometimes, exactly the opposite occurs, and one might be rewarded with an outpouring of vitriol sufficient to win our "Tears of the Month" contest. I do what I do for many reasons. The money is acceptable, and perfectly adequate for my needs. I get to interact with other players, which is after all the main reason one plays an MMO. We get plenty of war decs to satisfy our PVP needs, and all our efforts contribute to excellence in this field: scanning down players swiftly and efficiently, great proficiency with the D-Scanner, familiarity with being shot at and what to do when it happens. Ideologically, it makes me happy too: we're providing the main check and balance to people who, essentially, are doing their darnedest to tilt the game's economy in the favour of those who are prepared to autistically repeat the same tedious procedure solely for the benefit of imaginary space money. I feel, if not like Robin Hood, then certainly like **** Turpin. Finally, a question for you: if our activities fail to 'iritate' those of 'an intelligence', why are you complaining about us on the forums?
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.11.08 18:00:00 - [5] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 08/11/2008 18:01:50 Quote: Why put so much effort in to a method of griefing that is not only not very profitable but is also dull, and fails to actually iritate anyone of an intelligence and is merely a minor annoyance to the average carebear? I can actually make 15m an hour if I salvage efficiently... As for not irritating anyone...evidently, by the fact that you call it "griefing", you were irritated by it anyway. Also, my own experiences suggest that the "average carebear" thinks of it as much more than a minor annoyance. With the way some of them scream you'd think we were castrating them. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.11.08 18:05:00 - [6] I think as to the "why" for everyone here... its simple. The mission runners tend to adopt the common idea that what they kill is there's. If you bothered to ask before you grab... you'd get better rep. Just an observation.
Cat Molina Minmatar Psychotic Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.08 18:12:00 - [7] If someone offered the salvage and the loot (notified you of the mission level and type, promised not to fire on flashies), for say a million isk, and gave you the bookmarks to the sites after the mission was completed... would you take it? Hint: The answer to this question most clearly determines why you ninja salvage.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.11.08 18:24:00 - [8] Quote: If someone offered the salvage and the loot (notified you of the mission level and type, promised not to fire on flashies), for say a million isk, and gave you the bookmarks to the sites after the mission was completed... would you take it? Hint: The answer to this question most clearly determines why you ninja salvage. I'm not going to pay for a wreck field to salvage when there's plenty of them all around me. If he wants to give me the bookmark then I'll take it (as long the wrecks are halfway decent), albeit I'll be suspecting some type of trap. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
RedSplat Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.11.08 18:57:00 - [9] Originally by: Cat Molina If someone offered the salvage and the loot (notified you of the mission level and type, promised not to fire on flashies), for say a million isk, and gave you the bookmarks to the sites after the mission was completed... would you take it? Provided: The mission had salvage sufficient to warrant me paying for its location. Untouched WC, bonanza and blockade would certainly qualify. The guy proved to be trustworthy. Then yes. I used to have a small group of MR's up in Umokka that would give me bm's and mish locations, they didn't salvage. In turn i used to bump them all faction loot and anything specific i knew they were after; not that they asked me to but i consider it a pleasantry when someone is being so accomodating to reward them.
JordanParey Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.11.08 18:59:00 - [10] I'll take a set of BMs for free or take someone up on an offer if they want me to salvage their wreck field. I ask them to fleet me and only salvage first to see if they get antsy. THEN, and ONLY THEN, if they can avoid trying to provoke me into looting, will I take loot as well. I've gotten some nice stuff that way, and met some nice people.
JManZA Gallente Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.11.08 18:59:00 - [11] Originally by: Cat Molina If someone offered the salvage and the loot (notified you of the mission level and type, promised not to fire on flashies), for say a million isk, and gave you the bookmarks to the sites after the mission was completed... would you take it? Hint: The answer to this question most clearly determines why you ninja salvage. No I wouldn't pay. Economically speaking there is hardly a shortage of salvage fields so it doesn't make sense. Further, we spend a lot of time and effort on being proficient with the scanner and this investment pays off by giving us more than enough fields to pick and choose from.
Number 86	Posted - 2008.11.08 19:40:00 - [12] Originally by: JManZA No I wouldn't pay. Economically speaking there is hardly a shortage of salvage fields so it doesn't make sense. Further, we spend a lot of time and effort on being proficient with the scanner and this investment pays off by giving us more than enough fields to pick and choose from. Dude, what systems are you in currently? I want to learn the ways.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.11.08 19:44:00 - [13] Read. EVE mail in game or post in the thread if you have any questions. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Kehmor Caldari Malevolent Emo Herders Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.11.10 00:47:00 - [14] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 08/11/2008 18:01:50 Quote: Why put so much effort in to a method of griefing that is not only not very profitable but is also dull, and fails to actually iritate anyone of an intelligence and is merely a minor annoyance to the average carebear? I can actually make 15m an hour if I salvage efficiently... As for not irritating anyone...evidently, by the fact that you call it "griefing", you were irritated by it anyway. Also, my own experiences suggest that the "average carebear" thinks of it as much more than a minor annoyance. With the way some of them scream you'd think we were castrating them. Well, for a start lets clear something up. I have never once been victim of a ninja salvager, nor is it possible for me to be the victim of one. For a start I never run missions anymore, the only two times in my eve career I did were: A) for the blood raiders when frentix prices were through the roof B) when I was grinding my sec up Both occasions were in low or null sec, so when someone entered scan, I hightailed out of there, loot be damned. Furthermore, it takes very little calculation to realise salvage is not worth it providing you are running for a corp with a decent LP store, therefore any intelligent mission runner should not really give two tosses. So you can drop any idea of me being a whining carebear trying to get my own back on the forums. To be honest 15m/hour is peanuts. Conentrated scamming can earn you more, and offers far more versatilty and ammusement. - Violence isn't the answer, it is the question. The answer is yes.
Mithos Victus Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.10 15:26:00 - [15] There's nothing wrong with ninja salvaging, salvaging is a profession. It is however, unsavory to ninja bait and ransom mission runners. I look forward to the day that is considered an exploit. If you can't get into someone's research queue and screw with their manufacturing, or get into their ingame wallet and screw with their marketing, you shouldn't be able to get into their mission and screw with their ships. Nothing says you can't salvage their wrecks though. Who here has read sci-fi literature that features a space age society that does NOT include limited or random talk of scavengers in space profiting off people's junk? You think scavengers are going to go away just because you find them distasteful? They play a role just like anyone else. Consider all those wrecks in space that you may not even salvage or loot regularly as ISKies that could be floating around in the market waiting for YOU to seize them later.
Nexus Kinnon Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.11.10 15:38:00 - [16] I tried it once, found it incredibly dull. However it did lead to a series of entertaining kills I suppose... He was a believer in BIGGER IZ BETTAR LOL. But I couldn't really do it day-in day-out, probing people in missions sucks.
Kaya Valda Caldari Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.11.10 15:40:00 - [17] Originally by: Mithos Victus There's nothing wrong with ninja salvaging, salvaging is a profession. It is however, unsavory to ninja bait and ransom mission runners. I look forward to the day that is considered an exploit. I suspect you'll be looking forward for a long time then. The people that do this can't MAKE the mission runner get flagged, they do that all by their stupid selves. It's not broken so I doubt CCP will feel the need to fix it. P.S. I have never tried ninja salvage. Looks kinda dull to me. - Neo-Spartans are Recruiting
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Trinity Council	Posted - 2008.11.10 16:23:00 - [18] Originally by: JManZA Originally by: Cat Molina If someone offered the salvage and the loot (notified you of the mission level and type, promised not to fire on flashies), for say a million isk, and gave you the bookmarks to the sites after the mission was completed... would you take it? Hint: The answer to this question most clearly determines why you ninja salvage. No I wouldn't pay. Economically speaking there is hardly a shortage of salvage fields so it doesn't make sense. Further, we spend a lot of time and effort on being proficient with the scanner and this investment pays off by giving us more than enough fields to pick and choose from. actaully, economically speaking, that would be somewhat smart to do, A.) you dont have to waste your time scanning w/ scan probes, and B.) the mission is turned in, allowing the usage of MWD Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 "*Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer*"
Mithos Victus Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.10 16:57:00 - [19] Edited by: Mithos Victus on 10/11/2008 16:59:39 Originally by: Kaya Valda I suspect you'll be looking forward for a long time then. The people that do this can't MAKE the mission runner get flagged, they do that all by their stupid selves. It's not broken so I doubt CCP will feel the need to fix it. P.S. I have never tried ninja salvage. Looks kinda dull to me. Nah it's not that, it's that drones on aggressive should only auto-attack things that appear on your current overview settings. Cuz we all have had drones out at one point or another on aggressive when being jammed up by 5-6 rats and we had to return/release to get our drones out so they would specifically mop up the jammers first. And they need to do away with the flip exploit where if you loot someone else's wreck at the same time as they do, they will flag to you and not know it. It's their own fault if they choose fire on a baiter, that's a given. But the cheap parlor tricks need to be removed or marked as exploits IMO.
Eschiava Q Minmatar Maximum Yarrage	Posted - 2008.11.10 18:15:00 - [20] Both people being flagged when taking from a can at the same time is a latency issue as far as I know. Unless there is a way for me to know that you are about to take from the can so I can steer clear and "avoid the exploit" there is no way it can be classified as such as the only safe way to avoid it would be never to loot another's can. I seriously doubt that will ever happen.
zombeee	Posted - 2008.11.10 18:28:00 - [21] Edited by: zombeee on 10/11/2008 18:28:52 Originally by: Mithos Victus If you can't get into someone's research queue and screw with their manufacturing, or get into their ingame wallet and screw with their marketing, you shouldn't be able to get into their mission and screw with their ships. You have a lot to learn about market PvP
Mithos Victus Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.10 19:47:00 - [22] Originally by: zombeee You have a lot to learn about market PvP How is that, exactly? Corollary Don't make assumptions based on loose jargon and rhetoric, it is as simple as that. I am fully aware of market PvP, and that is not at all how I meant that statement. If someone not in your corporation could dock at your station and flip your wallet funds due to latency issues (as noted above) as you move them from one corporate division to another somehow I think there would be a little bit of a clamor. Capice?
Khraunus Amarr Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.11.10 20:02:00 - [23] Edited by: Khraunus on 10/11/2008 20:02:00 Originally by: Mithos Victus Originally by: zombeee You have a lot to learn about market PvP How is that, exactly? Corollary Don't make assumptions based on loose jargon and rhetoric, it is as simple as that. I am fully aware of market PvP, and that is not at all how I meant that statement. If someone not in your corporation could dock at your station and flip your wallet funds due to latency issues (as noted above) as you move them from one corporate division to another somehow I think there would be a little bit of a clamor. Capice? Except the wrecks don't belong to you untill you salvage them? That's like saying that if I go into an asteroid belt that you were already in and start mining an asteroid, that should be an exploit. Most importantly, how are you supposed to tell whether this is part of my post or my signature?
Mithos Victus Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.10 21:46:00 - [24] Originally by: Khraunus Edited by: Khraunus on 10/11/2008 20:02:00 Originally by: Mithos Victus Originally by: zombeee You have a lot to learn about market PvP How is that, exactly? Corollary Don't make assumptions based on loose jargon and rhetoric, it is as simple as that. I am fully aware of market PvP, and that is not at all how I meant that statement. If someone not in your corporation could dock at your station and flip your wallet funds due to latency issues (as noted above) as you move them from one corporate division to another somehow I think there would be a little bit of a clamor. Capice? Except the wrecks don't belong to you untill you salvage them? That's like saying that if I go into an asteroid belt that you were already in and start mining an asteroid, that should be an exploit. No, I don't have any problems with ninja salvaging even if it can be frustrating when my corpsmates or I had every intention of salvaging the mission wrecks and some random person warps in.
Khraunus Amarr Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.11.10 22:04:00 - [25] Then why remove it from the game? It's a valid proffesion, just like it's valid if 200 ospreys warp in on top of your hulk and start mining off of the same roids.
Lieff Over Dosed	Posted - 2008.11.10 23:24:00 - [26] Do rocks shoot at you? Do you have to expend ammo on said rocks, before you can mine them? Comparing ninja salvaging to mining is fairly moronic, not even close to being the same. Just make it the same as can stealing / loot stealing, dont remove it, just add a risk for whoever is stealing (and potentially more reward also, if someone takes the bait). This would turn ninja salvaging into an actual 'dishonest' profession, instead of being possibly the lamest way to make isk in eve, as it stands right now. Red flashy from stealing salvage would be a GOOD thing, for all involved. ~ Woke up, got myself a gun.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.11.11 01:19:00 - [27] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 11/11/2008 01:20:06 Quote: Just make it the same as can stealing / loot stealing, dont remove it, just add a risk for whoever is stealing I agree. They should add an element of risk to ninjasalvaging, comparable to the massive risk that level 4 missionrunners ha- Oh **. There's a greater risk to me (getting my expensive probing ship instapopped by Recon 3/3 or stray aggro) than there is to any halfway competent missioner. Originally by:** Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Msgerbs Gallente Imperial Assualt Guild	Posted - 2008.11.11 01:35:00 - [28] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 11/11/2008 01:20:06 Quote: Just make it the same as can stealing / loot stealing, dont remove it, just add a risk for whoever is stealing I agree. They should add an element of risk to ninjasalvaging, comparable to the massive risk that level 4 missionrunners ha- Oh ****. There's a greater risk to me (getting my expensive probing ship instapopped by Recon 3/3 or stray aggro) than there is to any halfway competent missioner. If your probing ship is getting agro to someone in a recon ship, you're not donig it right. Same for the rat agro.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.11.11 23:45:00 - [29] Originally by: Msgerbs If your probing ship is getting agro to someone in a recon ship, you're not donig it right. Same for the rat agro. /me facepalms. "Recon 3/3" is a Mission in which you get toasted by the environment - gas cloud, I believe. It has nothing to do with getting aggro'd by a Force Recon... ...and as for rat aggro, don't make me laugh. Ever seen a Frigate tank a bunch of Battleships? Trust me, I'm doing it right. We're Recruiting!
Lieff Over Dosed	Posted - 2008.11.11 23:59:00 - [30] Originally by: Kahega Amielden I agree. They should add an element of risk to ninjasalvaging, comparable to the massive risk that level 4 missionrunners ha- Oh ****. There's a greater risk to me (getting my expensive probing ship instapopped by Recon 3/3 or stray aggro) than there is to any halfway competent missioner. The point is the mission runner does have some risk, while you have zero. Risk vs reward? Most missioners probably wont engage as it'll likely turn out to be a trap anyway, but at least they can do something about it if they choose....and would give corps the option to trap ninja salvagers also. Making ninja salvaging a flashy red action will add not detract from the profession, and the game. ~ Woke up, got myself a gun.

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