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discordigant
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 11:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is complete BULLSHIT, the Mittani got chairman because of his highest votes, thus by rights Two Step should be the new chairman, i don't understand why there was an internal vote for chairman at all? It should have passed to the person with the second highest votes and lets also say double that of the next person in line.
If your going to re vote then i sadly and this is really sad to say but agree with the goons and a complete re vote should be done.
I CALL BULLSHIT ON THIS CSM AND CCP. Maybe the CSM's days are over if they can do back door deals to choose who they want above that of the players that voted.
If your going to change the rules of an election as you go then you really should be calling it now and redoing the whole damn thing its a joke they way the CSM has chosen to proceed with CCP approval. |

Aradus Gunnell
Tactical Entertainment Network
6
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 11:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
http://community.eveonline.com/download/devblog/CSM.pdf
The White Paper seems pretty clear to me on how this all goes down; where exactly did CCP change the voting schemata? Page 16 of the CSM governing document clearly states that if the Chairman is in any way removed (voluntarily or involuntarily) from his/her seat, the CSM members hold an internal election for the Chair.
This was in place long before the current debacle, no?
Not trolling, I'm asking honestly: at what point did the document change from something else to its current iteration? Where were changes made along the line?
TEN EVEning News! www.tacticalentertainment.tv
DUST514 & EVE Online news every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday! |

Vile rat
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1120
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 12:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aradus Gunnell wrote:http://community.eveonline.com/download/devblog/CSM.pdf
The White Paper seems pretty clear to me on how this all goes down; where exactly did CCP change the voting schemata? Page 16 of the CSM governing document clearly states that if the Chairman is in any way removed (voluntarily or involuntarily) from his/her seat, the CSM members hold an internal election for the Chair.
This was in place long before the current debacle, no?
Not trolling, I'm asking honestly: at what point did the document change from something else to its current iteration? Where were changes made along the line?
Mittani stepped down from CSM 6 and was ineligible to sit in CSM 7. The chair never existed and the highest vote total of the eligible candidates was Two step. |

discordigant
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 12:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aradus Gunnell wrote:http://community.eveonline.com/download/devblog/CSM.pdf
The White Paper seems pretty clear to me on how this all goes down; where exactly did CCP change the voting schemata? Page 16 of the CSM governing document clearly states that if the Chairman is in any way removed (voluntarily or involuntarily) from his/her seat, the CSM members hold an internal election for the Chair.
This was in place long before the current debacle, no?
Not trolling, I'm asking honestly: at what point did the document change from something else to its current iteration? Where were changes made along the line?
Fair call but you seem to have added words into this of your choosing,
"If the Chairman decides to step down or rescind his responsibility at any time for any reason, a vote must be held among Representatives to elect another Chairman GÇô should the Chairman voluntarily step down as one he is still eligible for the position during the vote for a new Chairman."
He did not step down of his own volition, he was told to by CCP or he would be removed. His stepping down the way he did was done to safe any face he had left to save and this is a mere technicality.
"any behavior or actions considered being a material breach of the eula or tos by a Csm representative is grounds for immediate dismissal and permanent exclusion from all pending and future participation in the council. there are no exceptions, regardless of the infraction. representatives are not only expected to uphold the social contract that all society members are held accountable to, but should also set a behavior standard for everyone else to follow."
|

discordigant
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 12:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:Aradus Gunnell wrote:http://community.eveonline.com/download/devblog/CSM.pdf
The White Paper seems pretty clear to me on how this all goes down; where exactly did CCP change the voting schemata? Page 16 of the CSM governing document clearly states that if the Chairman is in any way removed (voluntarily or involuntarily) from his/her seat, the CSM members hold an internal election for the Chair.
This was in place long before the current debacle, no?
Not trolling, I'm asking honestly: at what point did the document change from something else to its current iteration? Where were changes made along the line?
Mittani stepped down from CSM 6 and was ineligible to sit in CSM 7. The chair never existed and the highest vote total of the eligible candidates was Two step.
This is true also.
EDIT: Damn i just agreed with a goon, what's messed up with me today. |

Aradus Gunnell
Tactical Entertainment Network
6
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 12:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Fair assessment; the angle here is that he never technically took office, and therefore created a bump-vote situation.
Thanks for clarification of position. TEN EVEning News! www.tacticalentertainment.tv
DUST514 & EVE Online news every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday! |

Vile rat
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1122
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 12:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
It strikes me as odd that the white paper would suggest the guy with the most votes should be Chair, but if they are removed then the next highest vote guy doesn't matter. Is there reasoning behind this or is it really as nonsensical as it seems?
|

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1900
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 13:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:It strikes me as odd that the white paper would suggest the guy with the most votes should be Chair, but if they are removed then the next highest vote guy doesn't matter. Is there reasoning behind this or is it really as nonsensical as it seems?
Two step had been publicly lauded as the goon's favourite choice of replacement Chair. It was simply too big an opportunity to wind you guys up a little-weeny bit more by choosing a Supercap fan as Chair going forwards 
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |

Vile rat
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1123
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 13:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Vile rat wrote:It strikes me as odd that the white paper would suggest the guy with the most votes should be Chair, but if they are removed then the next highest vote guy doesn't matter. Is there reasoning behind this or is it really as nonsensical as it seems?
Two step had been publicly lauded as the goon's favourite choice of replacement Chair. It was simply too big an opportunity to wind you guys up a little-weeny bit more by choosing a Supercap fan as Chair going forwards 
Man you aren't even entertaining as a low content troll. Must have been all those years running the space brothel, it just took it right out of you. |

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1900
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 13:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Vile rat wrote:It strikes me as odd that the white paper would suggest the guy with the most votes should be Chair, but if they are removed then the next highest vote guy doesn't matter. Is there reasoning behind this or is it really as nonsensical as it seems?
Two step had been publicly lauded as the goon's favourite choice of replacement Chair. It was simply too big an opportunity to wind you guys up a little-weeny bit more by choosing a Supercap fan as Chair going forwards  Man you aren't even entertaining as a low content troll. Must have been all those years running the space brothel, it just took it right out of you.
I've noticed you guys REALLY can't take a bit of humour when its directed at you.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |

Vile rat
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1123
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 13:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Vile rat wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Vile rat wrote:It strikes me as odd that the white paper would suggest the guy with the most votes should be Chair, but if they are removed then the next highest vote guy doesn't matter. Is there reasoning behind this or is it really as nonsensical as it seems?
Two step had been publicly lauded as the goon's favourite choice of replacement Chair. It was simply too big an opportunity to wind you guys up a little-weeny bit more by choosing a Supercap fan as Chair going forwards  Man you aren't even entertaining as a low content troll. Must have been all those years running the space brothel, it just took it right out of you. I've noticed you guys REALLY can't take a bit of humour when its directed at you.
Maybe be funny and people will laugh???? |

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1900
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 13:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Vile rat wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Vile rat wrote:It strikes me as odd that the white paper would suggest the guy with the most votes should be Chair, but if they are removed then the next highest vote guy doesn't matter. Is there reasoning behind this or is it really as nonsensical as it seems?
Two step had been publicly lauded as the goon's favourite choice of replacement Chair. It was simply too big an opportunity to wind you guys up a little-weeny bit more by choosing a Supercap fan as Chair going forwards  Man you aren't even entertaining as a low content troll. Must have been all those years running the space brothel, it just took it right out of you. I've noticed you guys REALLY can't take a bit of humour when its directed at you. Maybe be funny and people will laugh????
if you take a look outside your alliance chat you'll see that pretty much everybody else IS laughing 
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |

Vile rat
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1124
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 13:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:if you take a look outside your alliance chat you'll see that pretty much everybody else IS laughing 
Ok? |

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1900
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 13:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:if you take a look outside your alliance chat you'll see that pretty much everybody else IS laughing  Ok?
tell you what, have a sympathy space like and I'll stop taking the mickey for a bit.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |

Vile rat
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1124
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 13:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Vile rat wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:if you take a look outside your alliance chat you'll see that pretty much everybody else IS laughing  Ok? tell you what, have a sympathy space like and I'll stop taking the mickey for a bit.
What does this even mean?
I swear the english invented the language then forgot how to use it. |

Frying Doom
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
159
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 13:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:if you take a look outside your alliance chat you'll see that pretty much everybody else IS laughing  Ok? You goons really need to get out of your alliance chat more with answers like "Ok?" on people laughing..Everyone is still laughing at you Goons. Your corp started so well but you are a stagnant rotting corpse of what once was. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge. |

Vile rat
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1124
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 13:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Vile rat wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:if you take a look outside your alliance chat you'll see that pretty much everybody else IS laughing  Ok? You goons really need to get out of your alliance chat more with answers like "Ok?" on people laughing..Everyone is still laughing at you Goons. Your corp started so well but you are a stagnant rotting corpse of what once was.
Ok goon stalker guy. |

Sir Patrick Moore
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 13:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Vile rat wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:if you take a look outside your alliance chat you'll see that pretty much everybody else IS laughing  Ok? You goons really need to get out of your alliance chat more with answers like "Ok?" on people laughing..Everyone is still laughing at you Goons. Your corp started so well but you are a stagnant rotting corpse of what once was.
Good switch, I think you'll definitely have more luck getting into Jades pants than Isslers what with the space brothel and all that.... Sir Patrick Moore CBE, FRS, FRAS Hon. Vice President of the Royal Astronomical Society |

Prince Kobol
514
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 14:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:if you take a look outside your alliance chat you'll see that pretty much everybody else IS laughing  Ok?
Seriously they are laughing pretty hard.
Shame really but there you go. |

Frying Doom
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
159
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 14:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sir Patrick Moore wrote: Good switch, I think you'll definitely have more luck getting into Jades pants than Isslers what with the space brothel and all that....
Actually my support was based on I had voted for her before, I am a miner and some website classed her as number 20 as to her getting onto the CSM and to see how hard voting is to manipulate in EVE.
I am curious another thing, the old south park adage that 1/4 people in the United states are idiots, are you from the United states? just wondering as about 1/3 of EvE's voters are from the United States and I know myth busters is a well liked show there too Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge. |

Cosmic Fart
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 14:09:00 -
[21] - Quote
More tears please. |

Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
234
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 14:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
The Mittani wrote: With CSM7's term beginning on April 4th, I now exercise my right as the winner of the election with 10,058 votes to decline the office of Chairman. It will then be up to CSM7 as a group to decide how to proceed regarding the Chair.
So let's see how this actually works. Elections are done, all votes are in and counted. Drama happens. The Mittani himself says that he exercises his right as the winner of the election to decline chairmanship and that it will be up to CSM7 as a group to decide how to proceed in regards to the chair.
Whitepaper clearly indicates that :
"If the Chairman decides to step down or rescind his responsibility at any time for any reason, a vote must be held among Representatives to elect another Chairman"
I think all rules were followed by the letter.
But ofcourse there will always be people yelling "WOLF" , mostly those who gain least and / or lose most.
|

Frying Doom
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
159
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 15:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Cosmic Fart wrote:More tears please. I'm sorry I take it this wasn't for me as all references to tears, crying and how to loose 10058 votes are now about the Goonswarm and you should refer all questions on those subjects to them. Please give everyone fore knowledge so we can have our buckets handy for collection of said tears. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge. |

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1901
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 15:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sir Patrick Moore wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Vile rat wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:if you take a look outside your alliance chat you'll see that pretty much everybody else IS laughing  Ok? You goons really need to get out of your alliance chat more with answers like "Ok?" on people laughing..Everyone is still laughing at you Goons. Your corp started so well but you are a stagnant rotting corpse of what once was. Good switch, I think you'll definitely have more luck getting into Jades pants than Isslers what with the space brothel and all that....
Well if we can move past the RL personal harrassment and ongoing attempts to ruin my professional reputation by posting my RL picture alongside allegations of child sex abuse by the goonswarm directorate, then perhaps we could have a proper discussion of precisely why you think the election of a replacement chair was improperly handled.
Do you think you are intellectually-capable of putting aside the ooc harrassment for long enough to have that discussion?
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
658
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 15:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
See Phantom this is what happens when calls to ban NPC forum alts from CSM forums are ignored. |

Banderlei Shiiba
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
52
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 17:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
Killer Gandry wrote: So let's see how this actually works. Elections are done, all votes are in and counted. Drama happens. The Mittani himself says that he exercises his right as the winner of the election to decline chairmanship and that it will be up to CSM7 as a group to decide how to proceed in regards to the chair.
Whitepaper clearly indicates that :
"If the Chairman decides to step down or rescind his responsibility at any time for any reason, a vote must be held among Representatives to elect another Chairman"
I think all rules were followed by the letter.
But ofcourse there will always be people yelling "WOLF" , mostly those who gain least and / or lose most.
The part you left out was CCP's actual punishment being different than what Mittens actually did. Mittens tried to give up the CSM 7 chair and remain on the council, but CCP took it as him resigning his CSM 6 char, and then banning him so he wouldn't even BE eligble to become a member of CSM 7, which means he wasn't able to resign from a position he never actually held. Had he stepped down on Day 1, or been allowed to keep his CSM 7 seat, what you said would be 100% the way to go. That's not what actually went down, though.
Granted, I don't actually care about Seleene or Two Step holding the chair anyway - by rights, it should be Two Step, but most everyone else on the council backed Seleene, so vOv. Probably something that should be clarified in the White Paper going forward, though, given how CCP handled the whole punishment thing. |

None ofthe Above
163
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 17:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jeebus,
You guys can't stop yourself can you?
The white paper called for "If the Chairman decides to step down or rescind his responsibility at any time for any reason, a vote must be held among Representatives to elect another Chairman GÇô should the Chairman voluntarily step down as one he is still eligible for the position during the vote for a new Chairman."
I note the "rescind", Mittani decided not to accept the chair, so rescinded his responsibility.
He was banned and ineligible to sit afterwards.
Furthermore this is the only mechanism in the whitepaper for choosing a new chair if the person elected doesn't have it.
It was my and others reading before this, that this was what they had to do. If they hadn't, there would be another group of tin-foil hat wearing forum warriors screaming right now.
One could argue it's better this way anyway, and maybe the Chair of the council should ALWAYS be an office elected by the council. The council needs to be able to organize itself to work most efficiently.
|

Sir Patrick Moore
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 18:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Sir Patrick Moore wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Vile rat wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:if you take a look outside your alliance chat you'll see that pretty much everybody else IS laughing  Ok? You goons really need to get out of your alliance chat more with answers like "Ok?" on people laughing..Everyone is still laughing at you Goons. Your corp started so well but you are a stagnant rotting corpse of what once was. Good switch, I think you'll definitely have more luck getting into Jades pants than Isslers what with the space brothel and all that.... Well if we can move past the RL personal harrassment and ongoing attempts to ruin my professional reputation by posting my RL picture alongside allegations of child sex abuse by the goonswarm directorate, then perhaps we could have a proper discussion of precisely why you think the election of a replacement chair was improperly handled. Do you think you are intellectually-capable of putting aside the ooc harrassment for long enough to have that discussion?
Sorry, didn't realize I'd said there was a problem with the way the replacement of the chair was handled? Oh wait, that was just you making **** up again. You keep plugging away sweetie.... Sir Patrick Moore CBE, FRS, FRAS Hon. Vice President of the Royal Astronomical Society |

Tarsus Zateki
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
385
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 18:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:Aradus Gunnell wrote:http://community.eveonline.com/download/devblog/CSM.pdf
The White Paper seems pretty clear to me on how this all goes down; where exactly did CCP change the voting schemata? Page 16 of the CSM governing document clearly states that if the Chairman is in any way removed (voluntarily or involuntarily) from his/her seat, the CSM members hold an internal election for the Chair.
This was in place long before the current debacle, no?
Not trolling, I'm asking honestly: at what point did the document change from something else to its current iteration? Where were changes made along the line?
Mittani stepped down from CSM 6 and was ineligible to sit in CSM 7. The chair never existed and the highest vote total of the eligible candidates was Two step.
The chair never existed in the first place. Its a position The Mattani invented out of thin air to solidify his power over the lesser "people" on the CSM and everyone just ran with it. Much like the OP's post was invented so that pubbie filth would have a new talking point to moan and whine about. |

Sir Patrick Moore
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 18:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:[quote=Sir Patrick Moore] are you from the United states? just wondering as about 1/3 of EvE's voters are from the United States and I know myth busters is a well liked show there too 
You should google me, I'm quite famous in the SPACESHIP community. Also only legitimate wearer of a monocle in these here forums :smug: Sir Patrick Moore CBE, FRS, FRAS Hon. Vice President of the Royal Astronomical Society |
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