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APEXrevived
Imperium Technologies
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Posted - 2008.11.10 18:53:00 -
[1]
Seems to me that CCP just waited a few months until the speed nerf feedback threads died down and then sprung the speed changes on us packaged with the performance enhancement patches?
So many of us have suggested incremental steps towards fixing the current speed issues. This approach is WIDELY agreed upon as the safest and most effective software development strategy. Many other MMOs have made this same mistake.
I really don't understand this at all. Identify the problem and then make small steps towards it.
You could and should have balanced polycarbs in the weeks following the first patch where rigs were introduced.
You could have released a patch to balance the stacking of gang mods, leadership skills, implants, nanofibers, and the like. Oh, and that should NOT include changing the implant slots! Changing the amount of the bonus of snakes is fine, but to change the slots of some implants around so that people have to waste/destroy their implants is ridiculous!
I'm a project manager in the web development field and I can tell you firsthand that identifying discrete problems that can be fixed easily (i.e. low-hanging fruit) is far more effective than redesigning your whole site or application.
I'm very surprised these changes are being launched ALL AT ONCE and in such a dramatic game changing way. When you have a live sandbox that we're all playing in and the majority of the playerbase agrees that while speed is unbalanced it isn't game-breaking you don't make sweeping changes like this!
PVP is what this game is built on, it's the only reason i play it quite frankly. many other games have much better PVE, but EVE is special because it is far and away the best PVP experience in any MMO. to take a relatively balanced pvp combat system and throw caution to the wind and make changes this extreme, that's a very risky and in my opinion unnecessary thing to do.
I very much hope you don't continue to push us into more blob warfare simply because your new performance enhancements can handle it.
Warning: Never name your char by anything starting with an A...
sig stolen from Apolyon I. I support this statement. |
Vrenth
Gallente
Lightning Industries
Utterly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.11.10 19:15:00 -
[2]
That idea has positive and negative ideas as well. I think that idea is best applied when introducing a new mechanic or feature, not when nerfing something.
Example.. lets take this into a direct example. This patch they nerf polycarbs. You have 50 whine threads from people who practically only fly nano ships and don't see a reason for this nerf. Now, periodically, you release another patch every month nerfing one more speed modual. The nano pilots now feel picked on and see it less as a change than a giant pile of nerfs.
You also run into the issue of balance. It's impossible to balance things if your changing stats every patch. Missiles, turrets, drones, and everything else that speed effects would also have to be incrementally changed. This would become a nightmare to CCP.
Now, releasing it like this, with everything laid out on the table and explanations as to why it is changing, what is still viable, and what needs help after this patch is IMHO the best plan of action. Do I think that CCP has done this? Not 100%, but they did the best with their imaginary time constraints of releasing an expansion every 6 months as promised. Give the speed nerf time, it will grow on people, just as every other nerf has. Besides, the speed changes are an adaptation that CCP probably feels necessary in light of upcoming changes (Sovereignty, local changes, weapon changes, ect.)
I will agree that I don't like the state of missiles at all in this patch, however.
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Let's make CLONE VATS useful! |
Cmd Malley
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Posted - 2008.11.10 19:17:00 -
[3]
Yeah 100% agree. I mean I have been a fan of AFs for a long time and I am looking forward to try out the changes. But as an equally avid fan of the Raven in small gang PvP I have never expected to wish that they would have left everything as it was (has been? sorry for grammar, no native english speaker). Speed nerf with the sledgehammer, missile "adjustments" with a wrecking ball?
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2008.11.10 19:31:00 -
[4]
well... CCP has already perfected the "news cycles" of modern TV - and especially the art of sitting-it-out. so i really don't see a problem with having little balance patches every month - this might actually help them drawing attention from an embarassing f'up much quicker. "the gallente nerf" wouldn't have weighed so heavily - nor gone that far. and i'm sure hammerhead could live without "boost patch" attached to his voice for the rest of this career.
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putting the gist back into logistics |
Murina
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.10 19:31:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Murina on 10/11/2008 19:31:44
Have you every tried to point out problems to somebody who believes they are right and their idea is a good one?, especially when its summat that justified their jobs?.
They have a idea and are convinced its a good one and then they spend the next few months changing and altering everything else to compensate for it, then they need to change and compensate for all the things they just compensated for. Think of the butterfly effect but on a much broader scale and also how badly it will snowball as each change effects everything else and as such causes the need for change.
The forums are flooded with ppl complaining and pointing out clear and well tested problems caused by this nerf but instead of changing the base idea they are sticking fingers in the dyke hoping it will help........they have even set a date for it to go on to TQ ffs
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.11.10 19:33:00 -
[6]
Agreed. The CCP that we once knew has faded away. With any hope they will roll back the missile changes and let missile users have a viable role. (MWD, Web, Scram are mandatory now, not to mention target painters. 2 mod shield tanks fail)
Until then, I think I'll be looking at alternative MMOs to become interested in.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
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Posted - 2008.11.10 20:23:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Agreed. The CCP that we once knew has faded away. With any hope they will roll back the missile changes and let missile users have a viable role. (MWD, Web, Scram are mandatory now, not to mention target painters. 2 mod shield tanks fail)
Until then, I think I'll be looking at alternative MMOs to become interested in.
If you like PVP, may I recommend Warhammer?
That said, I've often wondered at just why CCP seems intent on shooting itself in the foot. :-/
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Liang/Vanesca - Order/Iron Rock@WAR
www.kwikdeath.org |
Bowdy
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Posted - 2008.11.10 21:50:00 -
[8]
i came here FROM warhammer, worst pvp ever. I'm a brand spankin new eve player but this PATCH (because it is NOT an expansion for the record) doesn't seem to be doing anybody any good, myself included. |
Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.10 22:19:00 -
[9]
Personally I think they are still trying to slow combat down bigtime, as that was a dev desire for a long time.
This abortion of a patch is part of that I believe, just crammed under the auspices of a speed nerf. |
Vanthropy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.10 23:08:00 -
[10]
it's doing a **** ton of good for everone, including lag. rebalances ships so that everyship has a role that bigger ships can't fill. makes battleships have a role that smaller ships can't fill.. right there you have something so genius that it actually is an expansion, its going to expand the way pvp is viewed in eve. its going to do what ccp wants it to do.. ROCK. go ahead and quit, you'll be back after 6 months when every review says pvp in EvE is incredible.. sorry that your solopwn battleships are dead Wrayeth, sorry if every single rule you've held on to is being thrown out the window completely... omg ppl are gonna fit something other than mwd, point, web! ... that's ****ing broken
"SPEED + GANK = SPANK... Spank that ***** up" |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.11.10 23:41:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 10/11/2008 23:41:41
Originally by: APEXrevived
I really don't understand this at all. Identify the problem and then make small steps towards it.
They did. You might have missed all the small patches on sisi that were made and tweaked different aspects of the upcoming patch. It has all been tested for a long time now and it's not going to halt because of a few unhappy forum people. This change will be great and is one of the biggest and most needed fixes that eve has needed for a long time.
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[Video] The Cruise |
Lurana Lay
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.10 23:54:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 10/11/2008 23:41:41
Originally by: APEXrevived
I really don't understand this at all. Identify the problem and then make small steps towards it.
They did. You might have missed all the small patches on sisi that were made and tweaked different aspects of the upcoming patch. It has all been tested for a long time now and it's not going to halt because of a few unhappy forum people. This change will be great and is one of the biggest and most needed fixes that eve has needed for a long time.
For everyone but soloers, small gangs, blasters, missiles and shield tanks.
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Daan Sai
Polytrope
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Posted - 2008.11.11 00:33:00 -
[13]
I bet they wanted to get it all in and going so they have time to settle it before March 10 2009.
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.11.11 00:39:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 10/11/2008 23:41:41
Originally by: APEXrevived
I really don't understand this at all. Identify the problem and then make small steps towards it.
They did. You might have missed all the small patches on sisi that were made and tweaked different aspects of the upcoming patch. It has all been tested for a long time now and it's not going to halt because of a few unhappy forum people. This change will be great and is one of the biggest and most needed fixes that eve has needed for a long time.
Here folks, is the fatal flaw in relying on test server feedback, and using "go test it" as an argument.
It is completely unreasonable, and unfair to expect users to spend game time on the test server. We pay the company for a quality game, the one we're used to playing. We want to play and have fun.
I used to work as a QA tester (not for ccp). I quit that job to become a programmer. I am not about to start it again, and -pay- for the privilege of alpha testing their game. The only reason I did sign on, was after hearing rumors of just how awful missiles are screwed up. I simply relied on my faith in the company I've been paying money to every month.
How mistaken I was. Many users are simply relying on that faith, and there's going to be a lot of disenchanted gamers on the forums in a day.
So basically. Don't expect players to do something they should be paid to do, using time they set aside as leisure time. And don't expect players to go "welp" when things turn up awful. They have every right to complain when it's their money.
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.11.11 00:40:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Agreed. The CCP that we once knew has faded away. With any hope they will roll back the missile changes and let missile users have a viable role. (MWD, Web, Scram are mandatory now, not to mention target painters. 2 mod shield tanks fail)
Until then, I think I'll be looking at alternative MMOs to become interested in.
If you like PVP, may I recommend Warhammer?
That said, I've often wondered at just why CCP seems intent on shooting itself in the foot. :-/
-Liang
You know, I was thinking about it. But I want meaningful PVP. Unfortunately it needs to be fun, and EVE is losing that this patch.
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