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YAMN - Yet another Myrmidon Nerf

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Lithia Tsanov	Posted - 2008.11.12 14:35:00 - [1] Once upon a time there was a totally unbalanced mega-BC called the Myrmidon. For it's price, it was probably the best ship in eve. It tanked like a battleship, output the DPS of a battleship, and was extremely configurable. Toons that had spent time training for command ships had a viable cheap fallback for ratting and high risk PvP engagements. Then it began. CCP took notice an nerfed the shield recharge rate (twice). It appears the cap recharge rate took a hit. Then CCP nerfed it again under the guise of "drone banwidth". I was amazed by that. A drone boat had it's drone fielding ability nerfed so that it couldn't field five heavies. This effectively turned the Myrmidon into a pre-drone-nerf Vexor. Now, while everyone is distracted by the speed nerf, it appears that CCP have once again nerfed the Myrmidon (via the medium drone nerf). CCP, enough is enough. Please restore some of the former glory of this once great BC. As it stands, the Brutix is a much more effective PvP and NPC ship than it's more expensive tier 2 counterpart. While I'm not advocating the return of the 1700DPS tanking 900DPS dealing Myrmidon of ole, at least give us a little something back. Thank you Much, LT What is an OTAL?
123GuessWho	Posted - 2008.11.12 14:37:00 - [2] train other ship skills.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.11.12 14:39:00 - [3] …it also has a 150m¦ dronebay — more than enough to have a full helping of every drone it needs. No-one is forcing you to field mediums against targets who are too small for them.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.11.12 14:39:00 - [4] You really do talk out of your ar$e, don't you. The ONLY ships that are 'nerfed' by the drone changes are the ones than can either carry lights OR mediums, NOT both. A Myrm easily has room for lights, mediums and whatnot so it has the CHOICE to deploy what's needed. Ships that only have 50m3 now will have to choose beforehand; take lights OR mediums.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.12 14:39:00 - [5] Last I heard you could carry enough drones to shift to T2 smalls, right? Hmm, one of the only ships in the game where you can have heavy, medium or small sized weapons and not dock to change.... PS-Drake got nerfed too with the missiles ------------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Wrangler Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.11.12 14:41:00 - [6] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Last I heard you could carry enough drones to shift to T2 smalls, right? Hmm, one of the only ships in the game where you can have heavy, medium or small sized weapons and not dock to change.... PS-Drake got nerfed too with the missiles Drakes got a massive DPS buff with the new T2 Fury missiles. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Originally by: Horza Otho [06:36:47] Horza Otho > its all good, everytime i fit a mega i play some mariah carey in the backround
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.11.12 14:43:00 - [7] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Drakes got a massive DPS buff with the new T2 Fury missiles. Shhhh! Don't tell them! <clears throat> No, no, no. The Drake is now completely useless and must be buffed. I heard it on the forums, so it must be true!
Poba The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.11.12 14:55:00 - [8] tbh, myrm nerf was needed, but was done completely wrong. myrms could fit crazy gank fits cause it has 6 turret slots. so instead of reducing the turrets they kill the drone bandwidth to reduce its DPS. i think a more inline fix would have been to reduce turret slots ot 2 or 3, not kill the drone abilities of a drone ship. CCP take away half its turret slots and give it and eos back at least 100m3 bandwidth, they are drone ships so let them use drones that are inline with their shipclass ~Welcome to the internet, where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents~
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.12 15:04:00 - [9] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/11/2008 15:06:45 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/11/2008 15:04:32 Originally by: Lithia Tsanov Then it began. CCP took notice an nerfed the shield recharge rate (twice). It appears the cap recharge rate took a hit. Then CCP nerfed it again under the guise of "drone banwidth". I was amazed by that. A drone boat had it's drone fielding ability nerfed so that it couldn't field five heavies. This effectively turned the Myrmidon into a pre-drone-nerf Vexor. To be honest, 5x Ogre II Myrmidon with Blasters does a tad over 1000 DPS non-overheated, which is a bit over the top for a BC which also has some 46K EHP in that configuration... Originally by: Lithia Tsanov Now, while everyone is distracted by the speed nerf, it appears that CCP have once again nerfed the Myrmidon (via the medium drone nerf). CCP, enough is enough. Please restore some of the former glory of this once great BC. As it stands, the Brutix is a much more effective PvP and NPC ship than it's more expensive tier 2 counterpart. While I'm not advocating the return of the 1700DPS tanking 900DPS dealing Myrmidon of ole, at least give us a little something back. Thank you Much, LT Absolutely, boost Myrmidon. I would prefer if they removed the damn rep amount bonus and gave it AC ROF one (or laser damage, hahah). I'm going to fly one post patch after all. Originally by: Poba CCP take away half its turret slots and give it and eos back at least 100m3 bandwidth, they are drone ships so let them use drones that are inline with their shipclass Wtf do you want to nerf the Myrmidon for, or restrict it to boring (and often crappy) NOS/Neut setups only? Yeah, ok, 4x Ogre II, purely awesome damage without turret capability Personally, the only wrong thing with it is the rep amount bonus, which sucks horribly in comparison with the resist bonus. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.11.12 15:20:00 - [10] Originally by: Poba give it and eos back at least 100m3 bandwidth, they are drone ships so let them use drones that are inline with their shipclass What are you smoking? Which BC can properly use BS size turrets/launchers? You get to use cruiser size drones and turrets, just like other BC. Besides, it's already overpowered enough with it's silly amount of midslots.
MenanceWhite Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.11.12 15:23:00 - [11] Originally by: Cpt Branko or laser damage, hahah Yes! this would make my lasermyrm much more awesome! Originally by: Tzar'rim Originally by: Poba give it and eos back at least 100m3 bandwidth, they are drone ships so let them use drones that are inline with their shipclass What are you smoking? Which BC can properly use BS size turrets/launchers? You get to use cruiser size drones and turrets, just like other BC. Besides, it's already overpowered enough with it's silly amount of midslots. But right now a Vexor can field as much drone firepower as a myrm. The Vexor also has almost as many turret slots as a myrm. The Vexor also has a hybrid damage bonus which the myrm doesnt have. --- Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses Originally by: Oveur
MyOwnSling Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.12 15:30:00 - [12] Originally by: Tzar'rim Originally by: Poba give it and eos back at least 100m3 bandwidth, they are drone ships so let them use drones that are inline with their shipclass What are you smoking? Which BC can properly use BS size turrets/launchers? You get to use cruiser size drones and turrets, just like other BC. Besides, it's already overpowered enough with it's silly amount of midslots. Heavy drones are not BS sized weapons. Compare the dps of fully bonuses heavies against BS blasters or ACs. The heavies aren't even close. Not to mention they have a smaller sig resolution than BS weapons. ------------- Stop whining. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.11.12 15:31:00 - [13] Omen can hit 400 dps, Harb about 650. Same for Rup/Cane, Caldari is a tad lower. How does that differ from Gallente? With your nice amount of midslots, tanking bonus and versatility on the Myrm?
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.11.12 15:33:00 - [14] Originally by: MyOwnSling Originally by: Tzar'rim Originally by: Poba give it and eos back at least 100m3 bandwidth, they are drone ships so let them use drones that are inline with their shipclass What are you smoking? Which BC can properly use BS size turrets/launchers? You get to use cruiser size drones and turrets, just like other BC. Besides, it's already overpowered enough with it's silly amount of midslots. Heavy drones are not BS sized weapons. Compare the dps of fully bonuses heavies against BS blasters or ACs. The heavies aren't even close. Not to mention they have a smaller sig resolution than BS weapons. Yes, the Myrm is so bad that no one uses it, right? For eons you keep telling Minnie pilots that there's more than just DPS and now you want the most OP solo BC to become even better. Laughable.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.11.12 15:33:00 - [15] Navy Vexor FTW, TBH… except for the tank, that is.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.11.12 15:34:00 - [16] Plz rebalance my snake implanted missile spewing nano Myrm plz CCP you nerfed everything I ever trained for
MyOwnSling Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.12 15:36:00 - [17] Originally by: Tzar'rim Originally by: MyOwnSling Originally by: Tzar'rim Originally by: Poba give it and eos back at least 100m3 bandwidth, they are drone ships so let them use drones that are inline with their shipclass What are you smoking? Which BC can properly use BS size turrets/launchers? You get to use cruiser size drones and turrets, just like other BC. Besides, it's already overpowered enough with it's silly amount of midslots. Heavy drones are not BS sized weapons. Compare the dps of fully bonuses heavies against BS blasters or ACs. The heavies aren't even close. Not to mention they have a smaller sig resolution than BS weapons. Yes, the Myrm is so bad that no one uses it, right? For eons you keep telling Minnie pilots that there's more than just DPS and now you want the most OP solo BC to become even better. Laughable. I don't care about the myrm. It's fine as is. I just can't stand the comparison of heavy drones to BS sized weapons. They are not in the same class. ------------- Stop whining. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.11.12 15:39:00 - [18] For all intents and purposes, they are. They mostly only fit on BS class ships and aren't very useful against smaller targets. That classes them as BS weapons, wether that logic suits your agenda or not.
Cassandra Valieries	Posted - 2008.11.12 15:39:00 - [19] Okies I a fanboi noob or something, but I flew around with my myrm last night and it kicked just as much rearend as it always does. The change to my Hammerhead IIs was unoticeble. What was the OP whining about?
Lazuran Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.11.12 15:39:00 - [20] Originally by: Tzar'rim Omen can hit 400 dps, Harb about 650. Same for Rup/Cane, Caldari is a tad lower. How does that differ from Gallente? With your nice amount of midslots, tanking bonus and versatility on the Myrm? Also, Thorax could do 686 dps easily before the patch (without hardwirings, only 3 MFS2 and CN AM).
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.11.12 15:43:00 - [21] Edited by: Tzar''rim on 12/11/2008 15:43:45 Originally by: Lazuran Originally by: Tzar'rim Omen can hit 400 dps, Harb about 650. Same for Rup/Cane, Caldari is a tad lower. How does that differ from Gallente? With your nice amount of midslots, tanking bonus and versatility on the Myrm? Also, Thorax could do 686 dps easily before the patch (without hardwirings, only 3 MFS2 and CN AM). Perhaps, but that's not a realistic fit. 490 dps is more likely. Still more than enough.
Winterblink Body Count Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.12 15:45:00 - [22] I didn't even notice the change to medium drones until I spotted this thread. Interesting. Has anyone actually tried them out against frigate-sized targets and seen how much of a change it is? I don't see this as being any particular hit on the Myrmidon though. Start stocking some lights in your dronebay if you want to deal with frigates more effectively. warp drive active \| nature vraie
MyOwnSling Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.12 15:48:00 - [23] Originally by: Tzar'rim For all intents and purposes, they are. They mostly only fit on BS class ships and aren't very useful against smaller targets. That classes them as BS weapons, wether that logic suits your agenda or not. I see where you are coming from, but I disagree. They are indeed fit mostly by BS, but not exclusively. They can do just fine against BC, they have some issues with but are still viable against cruisers, and are effectively useless against frigs, whereas most BS sized weapons are going to have potentially major issues hitting a BC or cruiser with AB that isn't sitting at the end of their optimal. They are not quite cruiser class weapons, but they also aren't quite BS class. Drones seem to all fit in an intermediate class of sorts. Should a BC/cruiser be able to fit a full rack of heavies? Sure, but it should take a hit to some other functionality. ------------- Stop whining. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
Captator Universal Securities	Posted - 2008.11.12 15:48:00 - [24] Originally by: Winterblink I didn't even notice the change to medium drones until I spotted this thread. Interesting. Has anyone actually tried them out against frigate-sized targets and seen how much of a change it is? I don't see this as being any particular hit on the Myrmidon though. Start stocking some lights in your dronebay if you want to deal with frigates more effectively. Yeah, they are now very slow to kill other medium drones if you deploy them defensively, smalls take ages to go down against mediums too, almost better just bringing 5 hobgoblins 5 warriors 5 light ecm (pick 2) if you use them for drone defence a lot.
Lithia Tsanov	Posted - 2008.11.12 15:50:00 - [25] I think some peeps may have taken things a bit out of context. While 150m3 does does afford the pilot ample room for both meds and lights, the medium drone nerf in the latest patch appears to reduce the damage a medium drone can do to a cruiser sized opponent. Switching to light drones for a cruiser sized opponent reduces the Myrm's DPS even further. @Train a new ship type I did. I use a Domi as my money maker when not PvPing @The original Myrm was way overpowered Indeed it was. No argument from me on that. The current Myrm is underpowered when compared to other Tier2 BCs, and compared with it's Tier 1 BC counterpart. Historically, Battle Cruisers have existed for 2 player classes. First is newbies doing their first L3 missions that need something a little more 'umph' than a Vexor can dish out. Second (as I put earlier) is for command ship pilots that want an inexpensive ship to fall back on. I care little for the first case. The Myrmidon is fully sufficient for L3 missions, even with T1 fittings. The second case is where it needs a bit of love. Perhaps I do not have a good understanding of where battlecruisers are supposed to fit in reletive to HACs, Cruisers, and Battleships. I had always seen them as a HAC without the resists, with slightly higher DPS, and with no special T2 'mega' bonus in any particular discipline. I don't know exactly what the Myr needs. What I do know is that the Myrmidon continues to get nerfed (either directly or indirectly) by nearly every patch CCP releases. I'd like to see them give a little more consideration to this ship and return it to it's position as a viable (cheap) alternative to a command ship. LT What is an OTAL?
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2008.11.12 15:54:00 - [26] If anyone should be crying over their BCs it's the Caldari - both of theirs are tanky with a limited damage bonus on one. Matar, Gallente and Amarr all have a gank/damage BC and a Tank BC. Having a BC that, as you say, tanked and ganked like a BS is inherently unbalanced. It is still insanely powerful if flown right and has one of the best slot layouts available to any ship.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.11.12 15:56:00 - [27] The Myrm needs nothing, I'm not being biased or anything (can fly a Myrm actually and, still, consider to make it my main BC). The ship has a tanking bonus which lowers the need of low slots (even more since turrets aren't it's main dps so it doesn't lose tanking), it has 5 midslots which, with the new changes, can now be considered the holy grail for midslots. That leaves the highs free for any verstile fit you can think of, blasters, AC's, neuts, RR, whatever. It's a more than solid ship and very nasty/versatile solo. Ofcourse drones have their drawbacks, fleets, low sec gates and sluggish response (both when attacking as running away). Still, it's THE best BC for PVP, just looking at drone DPS doesn't tell the whole story.
MyOwnSling Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.12 15:58:00 - [28] Originally by: Tzar'rim The Myrm needs nothing This. The medium drone nerf makes lights useful again. They still hit everything else well enough. Myrmidon still maintains its utility. ------------- Stop whining. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
Lithia Tsanov	Posted - 2008.11.12 16:05:00 - [29] Oops.. I'm a dufis and reported a post instead of replying. Sincerest appologies to whoever I just accidentally reported and the op for wasting their time. LT What is an OTAL?
Lysianna Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.12 16:07:00 - [30] I agree, the Myrmidon went from being the number one Gallente ship to not so good in anything. If youÆre going to use drones, then you might as well get an Ishtar. If youÆre going to use blasters, then you might as well use the Brutix. The Myrm is still a good ship but it lost itÆs purpose in everything. They are not welcome in large fleet operations, they are not really usefull in missions compared to anything else and for ratting, might as well use the Ishtar. IÆm not saying, that CCP should bring it back to how it was before with itÆs unmatched firepower, tanking abilities and drone capabitlies but at least make it strong in something. Right now the Myrmdidon doesnÆt shine in anything, it does everything but since most ship specialize in something, the Myrm is a weakness to all. ________________________________________________ Lysianna Hazumason Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance

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