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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.13 00:43:00 -
[1]
with the new nerf to missiles there explosion velocities have been lowered dramaticly.. now if ccp waqs to look at missiles again which i hope they will.. i would have no problem if they keep the new velocities and gave bcu's a bonus for explosion velocity.. what u guys think?
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Sidus Isaacs
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Posted - 2008.11.13 00:45:00 -
[2]
is a good idea actually.
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Stunna Shade
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Posted - 2008.11.13 00:45:00 -
[3]
I think everything is fine and working like they intented it to be.
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.13 00:48:00 -
[4]
if the dmg bonus bcu's give now was decreased some and a explosion velocity bonus added.. is would actually bring missiles more inline with turrets.. isnt there a mod for turrets that does a equivalent bonus
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Gojyu
Ever Flow
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.11.13 00:48:00 -
[5]
I think that battleship sized weaponry should be employed against other battleships, not frigates. I think the missile change is awesome, and think all your proposal would do is bring caldari back up to the top mission runners again (as you don't suggest which stat from the bcu to take away to make up for the buff)
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.13 00:51:00 -
[6]
well the explosion bonus wouldnt be so large that it would make to large a difference to frigs.. but to cruisers and other bs it would help alot no?
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 00:52:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
is a good idea actually.
Only if my gyrostabs give me tracking bonuses, given my tracking in webrange got reduced by 400%, thank you.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.13 00:53:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Demonic Sentiment on 13/11/2008 00:55:29
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
is a good idea actually.
Only if my gyrostabs give me tracking bonuses, given my tracking in webrange got reduced by 400%, thank you.
y not give gyrostabs a tracking bonus? bcu's and gyros are basicly the same mods no?
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.11.13 00:55:00 -
[9]
It might be interesting if the weapon upgrades had different effects, one for damage and one for support instead of the simple damage/RoF bonus.
For Example:
Ballistic Control System: +RoF and reduced significance of target velocity
Gyrostabilizer: +RoF and +Tracking
Heat Sink: +Damage and -Capacitor use
Magnetic Field Stabilizer: +Damage and +Optimal Range
It would definitely spice things up and make the weapons more distinguishable in their performance. Of course balancing this in with what the weapon upgrades currently do isn't just simple math anymore.
--------
Ideas for: Mining
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Pooka
Caldari
United Space Aillance USA
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Posted - 2008.11.13 00:56:00 -
[10]
ANOTHER missle nerf. What's this make 4!!!!
Give us poor missle boat captians a break.
My other chacters are a Minmatar..and a Gallente...
How can I portect them with CCP herfing my missles??
PROMISES MADE PROMISES KEPT
BRING THE BRIGHT STAR BACK!!!
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.13 00:57:00 -
[11]
yea something like that.. leave missiles and turrets the way they are now.. but change the modifier mods to match the new base stats of the weps... aka missiles need more explosion velocity and turrets need tracking speed
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Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 01:08:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
if the dmg bonus bcu's give now was decreased some and a explosion velocity bonus added.. is would actually bring missiles more inline with turrets.. isnt there a mod for turrets that does a equivalent bonus
There are two. The Magstab is a pure damage increase, the Tracking Enhancer is a tracking enhancer. There's also a midslot Tracking Computer that's a mix bag range/tracking that can be scripted to one or the other.
In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.13 01:20:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Janu Hull
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
if the dmg bonus bcu's give now was decreased some and a explosion velocity bonus added.. is would actually bring missiles more inline with turrets.. isnt there a mod for turrets that does a equivalent bonus
There are two. The Magstab is a pure damage increase, the Tracking Enhancer is a tracking enhancer. There's also a midslot Tracking Computer that's a mix bag range/tracking that can be scripted to one or the other.
i didnt know that so turrets actually have quiet a few ways to help tracking... i still dont see a way to improve explosion velocity other then the skill... a modifier mod would be great
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.13 01:33:00 -
[14]
It would have to be in the same type as tracking enhancers/tracking computers, not just add another bonus to BCU's.
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Raigir
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Posted - 2008.11.13 01:34:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Abrazzar
It might be interesting if the weapon upgrades had different effects, one for damage and one for support instead of the simple damage/RoF bonus.
For Example:
Ballistic Control System: +RoF and reduced significance of target velocity
Gyrostabilizer: +RoF and +Tracking
Heat Sink: +Damage and -Capacitor use
Magnetic Field Stabilizer: +Damage and +Optimal Range
It would definitely spice things up and make the weapons more distinguishable in their performance. Of course balancing this in with what the weapon upgrades currently do isn't just simple math anymore.
This looks as a good idea, distinguishing the weapons far better than before. If a change to the weapons is so unlikely something to allow a module to make up for the downfall of the lower explo velocity and lower tracking. With the most emphisis on the explo velocity cause missles arn't doing too good right now.
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Mankirks Wife
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Posted - 2008.11.13 01:37:00 -
[16]
I said this in another thread but I'll repeat it here.
I like the OPs idea - missiles need a midslot module that's the rough analog of a tracking computer for turret users - something that lets them hit small and fast targets better.
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.11.13 01:39:00 -
[17]
No, because almost all missile boats use multiple BCUs and most turret boats use weapon upgrade mods, this would just be giving ships a flat out boost for free.
If you want to hit better with missiles, use the rigs, target painters and webs
If you want to hit better with guns, use the rugs, webs, target painters and tracking enhancer/computers.
Stop whining and adapt.
--
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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Anig Browl
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.13 01:57:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Gojyu
I think that battleship sized weaponry should be employed against other battleships, not frigates.
You know, it took forever to bring down frigates with cruise missiles even before the expansion, which was why I used drones instead. Cruise/torp vs. frigate is not what people are moaning about. Here is what people are moaning about:
1. Regular NPC battleships can speed tank torpedoes, WTF.
2. Already-slow battleships are now even slower, even though it never occurred to most mission runners to speed tank since you can't use a MWD in a deadspace pocket.
3. medium drones are nerfed for no special reason, when they're still a lot small than frigates. Strange.
4. large missile (eg cruise) damage vs. cruisers and up is still quite heavily nerfed. On the plus side NPC missiles now do less damage to my battleship, though that isn't very sensible either.
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.13 01:57:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
No, because almost all missile boats use multiple BCUs and most turret boats use weapon upgrade mods, this would just be giving ships a flat out boost for free.
If you want to hit better with missiles, use the rigs, target painters and webs
If you want to hit better with guns, use the rugs, webs, target painters and tracking enhancer/computers.
Stop whining and adapt.
you said it yourself.. turret are able to get a tracking bonus.. missiles have nothing like this.. also bcus suffer from stacking penalties.. as long as the base bonus from the bcu wasnt to high in the begining equiping multiple bcu's wont make that big a dif..
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Raigir
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Posted - 2008.11.13 02:01:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Raigir on 13/11/2008 02:03:13
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
Originally by: Vaal Erit
No, because almost all missile boats use multiple BCUs and most turret boats use weapon upgrade mods, this would just be giving ships a flat out boost for free.
If you want to hit better with missiles, use the rigs, target painters and webs
If you want to hit better with guns, use the rugs, webs, target painters and tracking enhancer/computers.
Stop whining and adapt.
you said it yourself.. turret are able to get a tracking bonus.. missiles have nothing like this.. also bcus suffer from stacking penalties.. as long as the base bonus from the bcu wasnt to high in the begining equiping multiple bcu's wont make that big a dif..
Quoting on the tracking enhancers/ tracking computers......so turrents already have modules for this purpose....wheres the missle sided versions, like I dunno explo velocity enhancer / computer.
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Jim Hazard
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Posted - 2008.11.13 02:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
Originally by: Vaal Erit
No, because almost all missile boats use multiple BCUs and most turret boats use weapon upgrade mods, this would just be giving ships a flat out boost for free.
If you want to hit better with missiles, use the rigs, target painters and webs
If you want to hit better with guns, use the rugs, webs, target painters and tracking enhancer/computers.
Stop whining and adapt.
you said it yourself.. turret are able to get a tracking bonus.. missiles have nothing like this.. also bcus suffer from stacking penalties.. as long as the base bonus from the bcu wasnt to high in the begining equiping multiple bcu's wont make that big a dif..
Well.. you could just fit a damn target painter which will just have you deal more damage... but then again you have to sacrifice a tank slot for more damage. Which is so damn unfair.. Its not like amarr/gallente pilots allways had to live with that.
+medium drones still kill cruisers and frigs pretty fast.
Also if you think BS turrets hit smaller targets better you maybe should start training for a turret ship just to be able to read messages of one shot missing after another and thus dealing no damage unless you sacrifice slots for webs and tracking mods.
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.13 02:13:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Jim Hazard
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
Originally by: Vaal Erit
No, because almost all missile boats use multiple BCUs and most turret boats use weapon upgrade mods, this would just be giving ships a flat out boost for free.
If you want to hit better with missiles, use the rigs, target painters and webs
If you want to hit better with guns, use the rugs, webs, target painters and tracking enhancer/computers.
Stop whining and adapt.
you said it yourself.. turret are able to get a tracking bonus.. missiles have nothing like this.. also bcus suffer from stacking penalties.. as long as the base bonus from the bcu wasnt to high in the begining equiping multiple bcu's wont make that big a dif..
Well.. you could just fit a damn target painter which will just have you deal more damage... but then again you have to sacrifice a tank slot for more damage. Which is so damn unfair.. Its not like amarr/gallente pilots allways had to live with that.
+medium drones still kill cruisers and frigs pretty fast.
Also if you think BS turrets hit smaller targets better you maybe should start training for a turret ship just to be able to read messages of one shot missing after another and thus dealing no damage unless you sacrifice slots for webs and tracking mods.
funny thing is im not even flying a bs.. im flying a cerberus.. and yes a larger sig radius does help.. but it doesnt change the fact that a bs moving at speed if moving faster then the explosion velocity of almost all missiles..
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Jmanis Catharg
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 02:19:00 -
[23]
Oh god, not another "unnerf missiles" thread (yeah, it is one of those).
If you want to do anything, make BCUs scripted to either give their current bonuses as normal, or give *just* a explosion velocity bonus/reduced radius, maybe even with a damage/rof penalty. Either fire quicker and with more punch against big targets, or fire more efficiently versus small targets.
Personally as a missile user, this balance has been a long time coming and is very needed, missiles have always been the only option for me.
---
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
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Jim Hazard
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Posted - 2008.11.13 02:21:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Jim Hazard on 13/11/2008 02:23:50
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
funny thing is im not even flying a bs.. im flying a cerberus.. and yes a larger sig radius does help.. but it doesnt change the fact that a bs moving at speed if moving faster then the explosion velocity of almost all missiles..
Well... in that case use those strange mods which reduce the targets speed? dont know but i have the feeling that this might solve your problem....
But hey then again you wont be hitting smaller targets again if you do not fit a TP + a web for 100% damage sad but absolutely inline with turret ships. No turret ship can be fitted to be successfull in every situation and thats what the game is about.
If you can not live with balance and only want your i win button, go and look for another game.
edit: i would recommend Tetris, but then again all the blocks got a different shape.. might be hard to fill the lines like that.
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.13 02:22:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg
Oh god, not another "unnerf missiles" thread (yeah, it is one of those).
If you want to do anything, make BCUs scripted to either give their current bonuses as normal, or give *just* a explosion velocity bonus/reduced radius, maybe even with a damage/rof penalty. Either fire quicker and with more punch against big targets, or fire more efficiently versus small targets.
Personally as a missile user, this balance has been a long time coming and is very needed, missiles have always been the only option for me.
i nvr thought of scripted bcu's.. thats kinda cool.. but mabey make em more like sensor boosters so w/o script they give the two bonuses they do now.. and mabey a script for pure dmg mod and one for explosion velocity or something like that.. rof can really raise dps fast though.. so if a cruiser was shottin a bs.. that could get abit unballanced
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.13 02:24:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Demonic Sentiment on 13/11/2008 02:24:13
Originally by: Jim Hazard
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
funny thing is im not even flying a bs.. im flying a cerberus.. and yes a larger sig radius does help.. but it doesnt change the fact that a bs moving at speed if moving faster then the explosion velocity of almost all missiles..
Well... in that case use those strange mods which reduce the targets speed? dont know but i have the feeling that this might solve your problem....
But hey then again you wont be hitting smaller targets again if you do not fit a TP + a web for 100% damage sad but absolutely inline with turret ships. No turret ship can be fitted to be successfull in every situation and thats what the game is about.
If you can not live with balance and only want your i win button, go and look for another game.
im not being bias to anything if u read up i have no problem with creating now bonus mods for turrets to...
edit: ok well mabey im abit bias just cause i use missiles more then turrets but u know what i mean
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Sheikh Yarbhouti
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Posted - 2008.11.13 02:27:00 -
[27]
They should leave the BCU as it is, but introduce both a separate low and a midslot unit equivalent to the tracking enhancer/computer.
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Jim Hazard
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Posted - 2008.11.13 02:28:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Jim Hazard on 13/11/2008 02:30:46
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
Edited by: Demonic Sentiment on 13/11/2008 02:24:13
Originally by: Jim Hazard
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
funny thing is im not even flying a bs.. im flying a cerberus.. and yes a larger sig radius does help.. but it doesnt change the fact that a bs moving at speed if moving faster then the explosion velocity of almost all missiles..
Well... in that case use those strange mods which reduce the targets speed? dont know but i have the feeling that this might solve your problem....
But hey then again you wont be hitting smaller targets again if you do not fit a TP + a web for 100% damage sad but absolutely inline with turret ships. No turret ship can be fitted to be successfull in every situation and thats what the game is about.
If you can not live with balance and only want your i win button, go and look for another game.
im not being bias to anything if u read up i have no problem with creating now bonus mods for turrets to...
edit: ok well mabey im abit bias just cause i use missiles more then turrets but u know what i mean
Yeah.. why dont we all just vote for modules to be added which can all do multiple things at once. We start with weapon upgrade which add Damage, ROF, tracking, optimal range (for turret users) and also maybe some ecm modules which unite the abilites of jammers, damps and tracking disruptors oh yeah and of course a mod which can increase sensor strength, scan res and scan range.
Bet eve is gonna be very very challenging and lots of fun then.
edit: forgot the most important... i want a module which can scramble, web and shut of the enemys mwd while having an infini point with 100km range.. pls ccp give me such a module now... or i will just cancel my 3 accounts /ragequit
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.13 02:29:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Sheikh Yarbhouti
They should leave the BCU as it is, but introduce both a separate low and a midslot unit equivalent to the tracking enhancer/computer.
if thats what it takes sure lol.. i just want a mod that improves my explosion velocity... though i would love it if they would just change the bcu's
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Raigir
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Posted - 2008.11.13 02:35:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Raigir on 13/11/2008 02:36:31
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
Originally by: Sheikh Yarbhouti
They should leave the BCU as it is, but introduce both a separate low and a midslot unit equivalent to the tracking enhancer/computer.
if thats what it takes sure lol.. i just want a mod that improves my explosion velocity... though i would love it if they would just change the bcu's
Both of these solve the problem in simplicity, have an equivilent low/mid slot module, I could easily change out 1 of my bcus for one of those lows. Finnialy getting more sensible. Changing BCUs by themselves would end up causing a fuse in the turrent department. So I support the new explo velocity mid/low module.
Edit: spelling error
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