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Who is responsible for this certificate mess?

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Dr Fighter	Posted - 2008.11.13 17:57:00 - [31] wheres.. MY.... SHIPS SECTION!!!1111oneonene
Kiviar Caldari Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.11.13 18:37:00 - [32] I enjoy how armour tanking certificates require shield tanking skills. ---
Stikato	Posted - 2008.11.13 19:03:00 - [33] Adapt or die? Fit a target painter? Sorry, couldn't resist. On topic though, certs are mostly useless with their current implentation. A year old player could have made a better system than the one we got.
J'Mkarr Soban Amarr Proxenetae Invicti	Posted - 2008.11.13 19:40:00 - [34] The whole thing is a mess: why on Earth do I need resistence skills for active shield tanking? Those skills don't affect the active part of active tanking at all! -- These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work.
Karentaki Gallente Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.11.13 19:45:00 - [35] Some of the real gems I have found so far: Helios recommended: Frigate advanced blaster turrets Core Targeting basic requires: Targeting 4 - I am over 1 year old in game, and have NEVER been in a situation where I needed more than level 3. Imicus (THE drone frig) does not recommend any drone certificates I'll edit this when I find more. Quote: EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
Kanagawa	Posted - 2008.11.13 19:49:00 - [36] Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban The whole thing is a mess: why on Earth do I need resistence skills for active shield tanking? Those skills don't affect the active part of active tanking at all! Too literal of a translation. Effective active tanking requires high resists, hence the requirement.
Anig Browl Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.13 19:52:00 - [37] Originally by: Dmian Or maybe the devs know something you don't know... Er, no. The skill tree is public, and the certificates are just a classification scheme (somewhat poorly implemented).
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.11.13 19:53:00 - [38] Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 13/11/2008 19:52:51 The concept behind certificate is wonderful. Their purpose is: 1. Give clues to newbies on what to train. 2. Help recruiters evaluate possible recruits. 3. (DISTANT 3rd) E-peen. They need some re-working to be really useful for 1 and 2, but I FULLY approve of the concept and intent. Play nice while you butcher each other.
Melanie Griffin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.13 20:07:00 - [39] Originally by: Kanagawa Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban The whole thing is a mess: why on Earth do I need resistence skills for active shield tanking? Those skills don't affect the active part of active tanking at all! Too literal of a translation. Effective active tanking requires high resists, hence the requirement. Yeah, but the resistance skills only affect passive modules. Well ok, they give a +1% for deactivated active modules, so ...
Korbann Domini Umbrus R.U.R.	Posted - 2008.11.13 20:16:00 - [40] It seems to be a rough draft right now, I'm sure CCP will fix it up. Certs as they stand seem more proof of concept rather than polished product.
Stab Wounds Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.11.13 20:33:00 - [41] Certs look pretty good to me you guys will find anything to whine about. They'll be useful for recruiting for example you'll need core certs to elite to get into a corp which will be useful in rooting out those lazy loosers who don't train basic skills for piloting.
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2008.11.13 20:35:00 - [42] Originally by: Stab Wounds Certs look pretty good to me you guys will find anything to whine about. They'll be useful for recruiting for example you'll need core certs to elite to get into a corp which will be useful in rooting out those lazy loosers who don't train basic skills for piloting. yeh multitasking - the most needed skill to be effective at piloting 99% of ship classes/setups :) (needed for core elite).
Falcon Troy Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.11.13 20:55:00 - [43] Yeah the idea of Certs was awesome but it's implemented in a stupid way. I don't have half assed skills but I have nothing but private and standard. They are far too broad. I have all these awesome core and specialized skills all at 5 but don't get any good Certs because I'm missing or not 5'd on certain (In my opinion useless, or at least useless to my playstyle) skills... _____________ Hai.
Karentaki Gallente Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.11.13 21:01:00 - [44] Originally by: Stab Wounds Certs look pretty good to me you guys will find anything to whine about. They'll be useful for recruiting for example you'll need core certs to elite to get into a corp which will be useful in rooting out those lazy loosers who don't train basic skills for piloting. ROFL, are you serious? I can fly up to T2 cruisers effectively and I don't even have core competency basic... As they are they suck tbh. Quote: EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
Tsual Minmatar Iikhelahii khulemah'lal	Posted - 2008.11.13 21:08:00 - [45] So next topic on the thread: naming certificate and how you think the requirenments should be ? ******************** Moral is only usefull so far as society demands it from one to accept its presence.
Ghoest	Posted - 2008.11.13 21:14:00 - [46] The certs are a mess. Maybe certs dont matter - so who cares? But on the topic of the certs they are definitely fail. The problem is most people with good builds end up with basic certs because of screw ball requirements like multi-tasking. I wouldnt mind absurd and useless reqs for elite certs. But the step below elite should catch normal high skilled players. If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
Goyda Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.13 21:20:00 - [47] Are these certs like the EvE version of achievments ? Why do we need them ?
Bendenn Aeon Of Strife DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.11.13 21:47:00 - [48] Originally by: Owin Forsyth One certificate that I found particularly interesting is Common Ore Refiner. It is listed as a basic certificate yet it requires Refinery Foreman Standard. Already, we have a Basic Certificate, level 1, that is requiring a second level certificate, which seems illogical. Refinery Foreman Standard requires Scrap Metal Processing 2. The Scrap Metal Processing skill requires Refinery Efficiency 5 and Metallurgy 5. So, before you can receive the Basic Certificate of Common Ore Refiner, you have to max out two skills that are 3 X skills, taking 3 times longer than the common 1 X skills. ^^QFT This is just silly. I can get 100% refine in a 40% station on every ore in the game and I don't qualify because I don't have scrapmetal processing. For me it doesn't matter I've been around long enough to know what skills I need, but since this was meant to help people that are just starting out?? Well, that's going to cause many days of wasted training on a skill that many people never really need.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.13 21:51:00 - [49] The Certificate system is weird at best, sure it shows some links between skills but it has ridiculous requirements for some, which young players might take at face value and waste their time training, or might this be what CCP wants. In my opinion, if something is introduced in game and they take the time to build/test and introduce, they should really put more thought into making it functioning or used for something other than a useless feature which is not even amusing once you spend 5 minutes clicking <claim> and you see the rest of weirdly lined up requirements for some of the skills.. Simply a waste of time. Was this your Intern's project?
Blastil	Posted - 2008.11.13 22:03:00 - [50] As a recruiter for our corp, I am saddened by the lack of 'authorized X pilot' for certain ships, like Galente AF, or Caldari BlackBird pilot. All in all though, it gave me some insight on how to improve my skilling build, which if it wasn't useful, it was nice.
Tsual Minmatar Iikhelahii khulemah'lal	Posted - 2008.11.13 22:12:00 - [51] Originally by: Bendenn Originally by: Owin Forsyth One certificate that I found particularly interesting is Common Ore Refiner. It is listed as a basic certificate yet it requires Refinery Foreman Standard. Already, we have a Basic Certificate, level 1, that is requiring a second level certificate, which seems illogical. Refinery Foreman Standard requires Scrap Metal Processing 2. The Scrap Metal Processing skill requires Refinery Efficiency 5 and Metallurgy 5. So, before you can receive the Basic Certificate of Common Ore Refiner, you have to max out two skills that are 3 X skills, taking 3 times longer than the common 1 X skills. ^^QFT This is just silly. I can get 100% refine in a 40% station on every ore in the game and I don't qualify because I don't have scrapmetal processing. For me it doesn't matter I've been around long enough to know what skills I need, but since this was meant to help people that are just starting out?? Well, that's going to cause many days of wasted training on a skill that many people never really need. Besides Refining Foreman Standart is a requirenment to claim Common Ore Refiner standart. ******************** Moral is only usefull so far as society demands it from one to accept its presence.
DubanFP Caldari Evil ALT Corp	Posted - 2008.11.13 22:13:00 - [52] Edited by: DubanFP on 13/11/2008 22:14:15 Wow, Tempest reccommends active shield tanking. Not that anybody ever notices the tempest. _______________ "White, Black, Minmitar, Achura, Male or Female it doesn't matter to me. I'm an equal opportunity killer"
Helsir Qyrdun Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.11.13 22:16:00 - [53] I only use certs for two things. 1) ****ing material. 2) To remind me oft-forgot skills that may be handy (rarer than #1 however). Frankly all they had to do was throw these certs and the basic system to a small group of veteran players and we'd actually have something useful to work with. It all feels too cheap/rushed, which is understandable that it might have been rushed, but let's just hope CCP knows that, asks the playerbase for some input and we get something that is actually a help. Because, honestly, my gunnery skills are just as good as any other character that has focused in PvP and is around the same age as me, and yet I have a bunch of Standards across them, yeah....that's wrong.
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.11.13 22:26:00 - [54] To the OP: We discussin' drone skills? I have all 5 Elite Drone certificates. So apparently training those skills must be useful for something. Oh, and switching topics, under Navigation is Wormhole Manipulation as a basic skill. "This certificate represents a basic level of competence in the generation of temporary wormholes. It certifies that the holder can use Covert Jump Portal Generator modules. The holder is aware that the portal must be bridged to a Cynosural Field activated by a gang member before ships can approach the deploying vessel and jump through. This certificate is recommended for Black Ops pilots as it enables their unique functionality." However, it doesn't even require Cynosural Field Theory, but Jump Portal Generation. So, the word "MODULE" is out of place in my opinion. www.siigarikitawa.com
Disco Flint The Flaming Sideburn's	Posted - 2008.11.13 22:28:00 - [55] 10m in missiles and gunnery and I only got basic certs... hrm alright. Multitasking required for like 1/3 of all certificates since core competency itself is a pre-req to a bajillion of other things... eh? Also I don't qualify for active shield tanking when I have ALL active shield tanking skills maxed, since resistance amps are now obviously active tanking mods. Then the "starter professions" are weird to boot, they don't care about your skills in anything but frigsized weapons and "core competency"... ah well, let's hope they shape this into something that doesn't just serve the "lolwat" factor.
Cybele Lanier Amarr The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.11.13 22:29:00 - [56] Originally by: Karentaki Helios recommended: Frigate advanced blaster turrets What do you want to bet that in a few months we'll see killmails from players who actually took this as advice on how to fit a Covops? --------------- ""Minimum collateral damage" and "Entire star system" do not belong in the same sentence."
Lady Katrana Wild Jokers	Posted - 2008.11.13 22:35:00 - [57] i like the concept of certs for helping younger players guide their training and for recruitment purposes, but some of the requirements for certain certs and cert recommendations for certain things are just silly...
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.11.13 22:44:00 - [58] glad I trained mining 4 last year so I can get this sweet 'resource harvester' cert
Gone'Postal Minmatar Rage of Inferno	Posted - 2008.11.13 22:51:00 - [59] Originally by: Lrrp Certificates: I clicked. I looked. I left. QFT. If eve is Excel in space... then the Certificates are visio??. Boost SISI VOTE NOW!
Tkar vonBiggendorf Gallente Snake Eyes Inc	Posted - 2008.11.13 23:01:00 - [60] At least the certificates don't affect the skills directly. There's nothing stopping them from rewriting the whole tree and removing all existing claimed certs in an upcoming patch. We can all log in after the downtime and hit "Claim All" again. I promise nothingÖ. --CCP Prism X

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