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Who is responsible for this certificate mess?

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Eddy Vasquez	Posted - 2008.11.13 14:00:00 - [1] Edited by: Eddy Vasquez on 13/11/2008 14:01:17 I'm really curious who actually made this. The idea itself is absolutely great, but how can one mess it up that way? Examples: Gunnery: Cruiser Hybrid Turret --> only standard and elite, no improved certificate. how... erm, i mean ... why ?!? Basic needs medium hybrids 4, elite medium railgun/blaster spec 5 and others on 5. Makes sense, but why no improved cert for players that can actually use T2 ?!? Like medium hybrids 5, medium railgun/blaster spec 4. Thats the most important thing when u recruit people ... This applies for all shipsizes and all weapon categories. Drones the same ****: Combat Drones Control ... improved ---> Combat Drone OP 5 elite ---> Combat Drone OP 5 + the improved certificate ... lolies! Who needs Combat Drone OP on 5 anyways? What you need is drones 5, scout drone operation 5 and the drone specilizations skills. In that 8 days for combat drone OP 5, you could train drone interfacing on 4, which gives a total of 80% more damage instead of 5%. What i'm saying is: Those final 5% don't matter, and you find lvl5 requirements at a lot of improved certificates. Such as Combat Drone Operation which doesn't enable anything. Yeah, i know ... scout drone op and drone interfacing is allready in the drone control certificate. But can't you make it any more complicated for recruiters to verify the skills? Whoever has done this earns my "Most unlogical tree ever" certificate
Dmian Gallente Gallenterrorisme	Posted - 2008.11.13 14:07:00 - [2] Or maybe the devs know something you don't know... ---- Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.13 14:12:00 - [3] I like how some of the elite certificates require stupidly long skills like large autocannon and large artillery specialisation 5 All in all it's a very decent system to give people a bit more direction. And the 'Claim All' button is really nifty xD Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2008.11.13 14:16:00 - [4] High requirements for highest rank skills are OK. But as it stands now they're wrong ones and in some cases don't make sense at all.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.11.13 14:17:00 - [5] You can blame me if it makes you feel better. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.11.13 14:18:00 - [6] The certificates live dev blog basically said that just a couple people made them up...but yeah, they should probably fix a few of the weird loops in the system Also, capital class certificates would be excellent _____________________ My opinions plus a tablespoon of water may be substituted for your own.
Winterblink Body Count Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.13 14:19:00 - [7] Originally by: Sokratesz I like how some of the elite certificates require stupidly long skills like large autocannon and large artillery specialisation 5 All in all it's a very decent system to give people a bit more direction. And the 'Claim All' button is really nifty xD Well, it IS the "Elite" category. I think it's totally reasonable to have an emphasis on fully-trained skills there. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Drek Grapper Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.13 14:22:00 - [8] What does one do with these certificates anyways? I spotted the new tab on the ships descrition but have no frikking idea what they are for? -- "If itÆs true that our species is alone in the universe, then IÆd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little" George Carlin
Ocih	Posted - 2008.11.13 14:22:00 - [9] Edited by: Ocih on 13/11/2008 14:25:25 Alot of em left me scratching my head. My miner toon isn't an Ice specialist because I didn't train her in Mining Drones. They also want Mining Upgrades 5. How many people trained Mining Upgrades 5? Gadzooks! The mystery is unlocked!! That 4 cpu I save in Ice Upgrade 2 x 2 from Miner upgrade 5 is the critical component to being a master Ice Miner. Everyone knows the Exhumer is strapped for CPU. Miner Upgrades: 4X skill. two weeks in the toilet for... When I first logged, I was actually enthusiastic about this. Silly things like that make the game a bit more fun to play. But it soon became obvious I wasn't going to be changing skill regiments to accomodate the system. /shrug In fairness, there were a few skills I looked at and said.. yea I should have that...
FlameGlow Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.13 14:28:00 - [10] Multitasking is on recommended skills for pretty much every ship, when most ppl don't even train targeting 5 and have no problems _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button.
Orion GUardian Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.13 14:31:00 - [11] I like my multitasking 4 and 11 targets with auto targeter II ^^ [ok onyl because nothing else fits anyway] BTW: dont use the system if you dont like it...soe skillrequirements are...unneessary for REALLY using some sort of stuff....I dont even have passive shield tanking basics, whil I used to use a drake on L4 passive....
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.11.13 14:57:00 - [12] The improved/elite certificates are only a problem if newbs (or anyone else) thinks that the idea is to train all the skills listed as elite requirements back to back to back to etc.
Daan Sai Polytrope	Posted - 2008.11.13 15:04:00 - [13] They touted them as an aid to recruitment for corps, but didn't talk to actual corp recruiters to see what they needed to know :) Why am I not a suprised :) I like them, but yeah, there are huge holes in their logic still. They need to consult with end users more!
Edmar Ship Depot	Posted - 2008.11.13 15:18:00 - [14] The multitasking skill being needed for core elite is a bit odd. I'd bet there are a bunch of people training Targeting 5 right this moment.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.11.13 15:20:00 - [15] Originally by: Edmar The multitasking skill being needed for core elite is a bit odd. I'd bet there are a bunch of people training Targeting 5 right this moment. Only if the certificates actually mean anything to anyone. I'd like to hear from any PvP corp directors ITT who are actually putting a lot of weight on what elite certificates people have.
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.11.13 15:38:00 - [16] My guess is that the devs that worked on the certs basicly set up some program that took skill sets and levels into account and generated the certs as there are alot of them that dont make practical sense. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Owin Forsyth	Posted - 2008.11.13 15:52:00 - [17] One certificate that I found particularly interesting is Common Ore Refiner. It is listed as a basic certificate yet it requires Refinery Foreman Standard. Already, we have a Basic Certificate, level 1, that is requiring a second level certificate, which seems illogical. Refinery Foreman Standard requires Scrap Metal Processing 2. The Scrap Metal Processing skill requires Refinery Efficiency 5 and Metallurgy 5. So, before you can receive the Basic Certificate of Common Ore Refiner, you have to max out two skills that are 3 X skills, taking 3 times longer than the common 1 X skills.
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.11.13 15:58:00 - [18] Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 13/11/2008 15:58:51 Originally by: Dirk Magnum Only if the certificates actually mean anything to anyone. I'd like to hear from any PvP corp directors ITT who are actually putting a lot of weight on what elite certificates people have. Well, I think for certs it'd be nice if there was the ability to display progress towards the next rank same as regular skills, because a lot of people won't have elite certs but they'll have most everything for it except one or two skills. If I have 95% of the skillpoints for the improved certification, but don't have level 4 silly-support skill to grab the actual certification, there should be some way of showing it _____________________ My opinions plus a tablespoon of water may be substituted for your own.
Louis deGuerre Gallente Universe At War	Posted - 2008.11.13 16:04:00 - [19] It rather amused me that because I have targetting 3 and no long range targetting (strictly in your face with a blaster me) I fail almost all the basic core certificates (and with those missing lots of others as well) with my 13.5 million skillpoints I also don't think electronic upgrades are all that important unless you go covop. Also, I agree with Eddy's comments about the drones certificates. That all aside, I think the certificates will be very usefull for starting clueless players and I like 'm. Good first try ! -------------------------------------------------- If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles - Sun Tzu
Lrrp Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.11.13 16:10:00 - [20] Certificates: I clicked. I looked. I left.
whisk Gallente Quam Singulari Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2008.11.13 16:13:00 - [21] Originally by: Lrrp Certificates: I clicked. I looked. I left. almost same here, exept i also did : "heh" to my self befor leaving Adapt or Die
Darth Vaders Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.13 16:19:00 - [22] I said it before and i will say it again. The certificates although they are a cool idea are badly implemented and the way they are they actually mislead the new players instead of helping them. It seems to me as if the guy who made them like this has never bothered to play the game.
Gaelenus Gallente Society of the Crimson Flame	Posted - 2008.11.13 16:30:00 - [23] Originally by: Darth Vaders I said it before and i will say it again. The certificates although they are a cool idea are badly implemented and the way they are they actually mislead the new players instead of helping them. It seems to me as if the guy who made them like this has never bothered to play the game. QFT, I have to say a lot of the certificates dont make too much sense for me and some require skills that people baerly even bother to train.
Bartholomeus Crane Gallente The Crane Family	Posted - 2008.11.13 16:33:00 - [24] I think you're overcritical. I think certificates can be very useful for corp recruiting and offer a guide to all the skills. It's certainly better than a huge list of skills and a lot of infos to read through. There are some issues with the tree though, but nothing that some small adjustments can't fix. If you find some of these issues, why don't you bug report them? CCP has repeatedly said that they will monitor the situation closely, so chances are that adjustments will be made quickly. Just whining about them won't do anything that's for sure. -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2008.11.13 16:43:00 - [25] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 13/11/2008 16:43:08 I liked when astarte (i think) had recommended certificate: core competence elite. The one requiring multitasking at higher level - which already is above max numbers of targets astarte can lock. Uhm... so exactly why you recommend to have skill allowing me locking 8+ targets for ship which can lock up to 7 anyways?
Kalintos Tyl Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.13 16:52:00 - [26] who likes armor tnaking for huginn, or mining drones for ice specialist ?:D Quote: It's not a good idea to place a Exotic Dancers in a Giant Secure Container. The Exotic Dancers will not survive intact, if transported in such a container.
Ticondrius Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.13 17:05:00 - [27] I like the system, but I don't like how a good deal of the certs are rather silly in what they require. I think I'm going to put up a small webpage with 'fixed' certs later and link to it from here. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- RABBLE! RABBLERABBLE!! MMORPG: Many Men Online Role Playing Girls
Mallikan Gallente Plundering Penguins Anarchy.	Posted - 2008.11.13 17:26:00 - [28] I like the system tbh, and I feel that you have failed yourself by not liking it. --- For great justice. Or something.
Mallikan Gallente Plundering Penguins Anarchy.	Posted - 2008.11.13 17:29:00 - [29] And also... Originally by: Eddy Vasquez Combat Drones Control ... improved ---> Combat Drone OP 5 elite ---> Combat Drone OP 5 + the improved certificate ...lolies! Lolies??? Um... I'm going to need you to have a seat right over there. Don't know what drones have to do with CP... --- For great justice. Or something.
DubanFP Caldari Evil ALT Corp	Posted - 2008.11.13 17:55:00 - [30] Since whoever chose the certificate system doesn't know EVE well i'll rewrite a tree that could express a player's skills much better later today. Hopefully CCP will listen ^^. _______________ "White, Black, Minmitar, Achura, Male or Female it doesn't matter to me. I'm an equal opportunity killer"
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2008.11.13 17:57:00 - [31] wheres.. MY.... SHIPS SECTION!!!1111oneonene
Kiviar Caldari Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.11.13 18:37:00 - [32] I enjoy how armour tanking certificates require shield tanking skills. ---
Stikato	Posted - 2008.11.13 19:03:00 - [33] Adapt or die? Fit a target painter? Sorry, couldn't resist. On topic though, certs are mostly useless with their current implentation. A year old player could have made a better system than the one we got.
J'Mkarr Soban Amarr Proxenetae Invicti	Posted - 2008.11.13 19:40:00 - [34] The whole thing is a mess: why on Earth do I need resistence skills for active shield tanking? Those skills don't affect the active part of active tanking at all! -- These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work.
Karentaki Gallente Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.11.13 19:45:00 - [35] Some of the real gems I have found so far: Helios recommended: Frigate advanced blaster turrets Core Targeting basic requires: Targeting 4 - I am over 1 year old in game, and have NEVER been in a situation where I needed more than level 3. Imicus (THE drone frig) does not recommend any drone certificates I'll edit this when I find more. Quote: EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
Kanagawa	Posted - 2008.11.13 19:49:00 - [36] Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban The whole thing is a mess: why on Earth do I need resistence skills for active shield tanking? Those skills don't affect the active part of active tanking at all! Too literal of a translation. Effective active tanking requires high resists, hence the requirement.
Anig Browl Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.13 19:52:00 - [37] Originally by: Dmian Or maybe the devs know something you don't know... Er, no. The skill tree is public, and the certificates are just a classification scheme (somewhat poorly implemented).
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.11.13 19:53:00 - [38] Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 13/11/2008 19:52:51 The concept behind certificate is wonderful. Their purpose is: 1. Give clues to newbies on what to train. 2. Help recruiters evaluate possible recruits. 3. (DISTANT 3rd) E-peen. They need some re-working to be really useful for 1 and 2, but I FULLY approve of the concept and intent. Play nice while you butcher each other.
Melanie Griffin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.13 20:07:00 - [39] Originally by: Kanagawa Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban The whole thing is a mess: why on Earth do I need resistence skills for active shield tanking? Those skills don't affect the active part of active tanking at all! Too literal of a translation. Effective active tanking requires high resists, hence the requirement. Yeah, but the resistance skills only affect passive modules. Well ok, they give a +1% for deactivated active modules, so ...
Korbann Domini Umbrus R.U.R.	Posted - 2008.11.13 20:16:00 - [40] It seems to be a rough draft right now, I'm sure CCP will fix it up. Certs as they stand seem more proof of concept rather than polished product.
Stab Wounds Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.11.13 20:33:00 - [41] Certs look pretty good to me you guys will find anything to whine about. They'll be useful for recruiting for example you'll need core certs to elite to get into a corp which will be useful in rooting out those lazy loosers who don't train basic skills for piloting.
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2008.11.13 20:35:00 - [42] Originally by: Stab Wounds Certs look pretty good to me you guys will find anything to whine about. They'll be useful for recruiting for example you'll need core certs to elite to get into a corp which will be useful in rooting out those lazy loosers who don't train basic skills for piloting. yeh multitasking - the most needed skill to be effective at piloting 99% of ship classes/setups :) (needed for core elite).
Falcon Troy Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.11.13 20:55:00 - [43] Yeah the idea of Certs was awesome but it's implemented in a stupid way. I don't have half assed skills but I have nothing but private and standard. They are far too broad. I have all these awesome core and specialized skills all at 5 but don't get any good Certs because I'm missing or not 5'd on certain (In my opinion useless, or at least useless to my playstyle) skills... _____________ Hai.
Karentaki Gallente Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.11.13 21:01:00 - [44] Originally by: Stab Wounds Certs look pretty good to me you guys will find anything to whine about. They'll be useful for recruiting for example you'll need core certs to elite to get into a corp which will be useful in rooting out those lazy loosers who don't train basic skills for piloting. ROFL, are you serious? I can fly up to T2 cruisers effectively and I don't even have core competency basic... As they are they suck tbh. Quote: EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
Tsual Minmatar Iikhelahii khulemah'lal	Posted - 2008.11.13 21:08:00 - [45] So next topic on the thread: naming certificate and how you think the requirenments should be ? ******************** Moral is only usefull so far as society demands it from one to accept its presence.
Ghoest	Posted - 2008.11.13 21:14:00 - [46] The certs are a mess. Maybe certs dont matter - so who cares? But on the topic of the certs they are definitely fail. The problem is most people with good builds end up with basic certs because of screw ball requirements like multi-tasking. I wouldnt mind absurd and useless reqs for elite certs. But the step below elite should catch normal high skilled players. If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
Goyda Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.13 21:20:00 - [47] Are these certs like the EvE version of achievments ? Why do we need them ?
Bendenn Aeon Of Strife DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.11.13 21:47:00 - [48] Originally by: Owin Forsyth One certificate that I found particularly interesting is Common Ore Refiner. It is listed as a basic certificate yet it requires Refinery Foreman Standard. Already, we have a Basic Certificate, level 1, that is requiring a second level certificate, which seems illogical. Refinery Foreman Standard requires Scrap Metal Processing 2. The Scrap Metal Processing skill requires Refinery Efficiency 5 and Metallurgy 5. So, before you can receive the Basic Certificate of Common Ore Refiner, you have to max out two skills that are 3 X skills, taking 3 times longer than the common 1 X skills. ^^QFT This is just silly. I can get 100% refine in a 40% station on every ore in the game and I don't qualify because I don't have scrapmetal processing. For me it doesn't matter I've been around long enough to know what skills I need, but since this was meant to help people that are just starting out?? Well, that's going to cause many days of wasted training on a skill that many people never really need.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.13 21:51:00 - [49] The Certificate system is weird at best, sure it shows some links between skills but it has ridiculous requirements for some, which young players might take at face value and waste their time training, or might this be what CCP wants. In my opinion, if something is introduced in game and they take the time to build/test and introduce, they should really put more thought into making it functioning or used for something other than a useless feature which is not even amusing once you spend 5 minutes clicking <claim> and you see the rest of weirdly lined up requirements for some of the skills.. Simply a waste of time. Was this your Intern's project?
Blastil	Posted - 2008.11.13 22:03:00 - [50] As a recruiter for our corp, I am saddened by the lack of 'authorized X pilot' for certain ships, like Galente AF, or Caldari BlackBird pilot. All in all though, it gave me some insight on how to improve my skilling build, which if it wasn't useful, it was nice.
Tsual Minmatar Iikhelahii khulemah'lal	Posted - 2008.11.13 22:12:00 - [51] Originally by: Bendenn Originally by: Owin Forsyth One certificate that I found particularly interesting is Common Ore Refiner. It is listed as a basic certificate yet it requires Refinery Foreman Standard. Already, we have a Basic Certificate, level 1, that is requiring a second level certificate, which seems illogical. Refinery Foreman Standard requires Scrap Metal Processing 2. The Scrap Metal Processing skill requires Refinery Efficiency 5 and Metallurgy 5. So, before you can receive the Basic Certificate of Common Ore Refiner, you have to max out two skills that are 3 X skills, taking 3 times longer than the common 1 X skills. ^^QFT This is just silly. I can get 100% refine in a 40% station on every ore in the game and I don't qualify because I don't have scrapmetal processing. For me it doesn't matter I've been around long enough to know what skills I need, but since this was meant to help people that are just starting out?? Well, that's going to cause many days of wasted training on a skill that many people never really need. Besides Refining Foreman Standart is a requirenment to claim Common Ore Refiner standart. ******************** Moral is only usefull so far as society demands it from one to accept its presence.
DubanFP Caldari Evil ALT Corp	Posted - 2008.11.13 22:13:00 - [52] Edited by: DubanFP on 13/11/2008 22:14:15 Wow, Tempest reccommends active shield tanking. Not that anybody ever notices the tempest. _______________ "White, Black, Minmitar, Achura, Male or Female it doesn't matter to me. I'm an equal opportunity killer"
Helsir Qyrdun Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.11.13 22:16:00 - [53] I only use certs for two things. 1) ****ing material. 2) To remind me oft-forgot skills that may be handy (rarer than #1 however). Frankly all they had to do was throw these certs and the basic system to a small group of veteran players and we'd actually have something useful to work with. It all feels too cheap/rushed, which is understandable that it might have been rushed, but let's just hope CCP knows that, asks the playerbase for some input and we get something that is actually a help. Because, honestly, my gunnery skills are just as good as any other character that has focused in PvP and is around the same age as me, and yet I have a bunch of Standards across them, yeah....that's wrong.
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.11.13 22:26:00 - [54] To the OP: We discussin' drone skills? I have all 5 Elite Drone certificates. So apparently training those skills must be useful for something. Oh, and switching topics, under Navigation is Wormhole Manipulation as a basic skill. "This certificate represents a basic level of competence in the generation of temporary wormholes. It certifies that the holder can use Covert Jump Portal Generator modules. The holder is aware that the portal must be bridged to a Cynosural Field activated by a gang member before ships can approach the deploying vessel and jump through. This certificate is recommended for Black Ops pilots as it enables their unique functionality." However, it doesn't even require Cynosural Field Theory, but Jump Portal Generation. So, the word "MODULE" is out of place in my opinion. www.siigarikitawa.com
Disco Flint The Flaming Sideburn's	Posted - 2008.11.13 22:28:00 - [55] 10m in missiles and gunnery and I only got basic certs... hrm alright. Multitasking required for like 1/3 of all certificates since core competency itself is a pre-req to a bajillion of other things... eh? Also I don't qualify for active shield tanking when I have ALL active shield tanking skills maxed, since resistance amps are now obviously active tanking mods. Then the "starter professions" are weird to boot, they don't care about your skills in anything but frigsized weapons and "core competency"... ah well, let's hope they shape this into something that doesn't just serve the "lolwat" factor.
Cybele Lanier Amarr The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.11.13 22:29:00 - [56] Originally by: Karentaki Helios recommended: Frigate advanced blaster turrets What do you want to bet that in a few months we'll see killmails from players who actually took this as advice on how to fit a Covops? --------------- ""Minimum collateral damage" and "Entire star system" do not belong in the same sentence."
Lady Katrana Wild Jokers	Posted - 2008.11.13 22:35:00 - [57] i like the concept of certs for helping younger players guide their training and for recruitment purposes, but some of the requirements for certain certs and cert recommendations for certain things are just silly...
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.11.13 22:44:00 - [58] glad I trained mining 4 last year so I can get this sweet 'resource harvester' cert
Gone'Postal Minmatar Rage of Inferno	Posted - 2008.11.13 22:51:00 - [59] Originally by: Lrrp Certificates: I clicked. I looked. I left. QFT. If eve is Excel in space... then the Certificates are visio??. Boost SISI VOTE NOW!
Tkar vonBiggendorf Gallente Snake Eyes Inc	Posted - 2008.11.13 23:01:00 - [60] At least the certificates don't affect the skills directly. There's nothing stopping them from rewriting the whole tree and removing all existing claimed certs in an upcoming patch. We can all log in after the downtime and hit "Claim All" again. I promise nothingÖ. --CCP Prism X
Adaris E X I U S	Posted - 2008.11.13 23:02:00 - [61] Originally by: Gone'Postal Originally by: Lrrp Certificates: I clicked. I looked. I left. QFT. If eve is Excel in space... then the Certificates are visio??. haha, I liked this. ******* I speak on behalf of every corporation.
Cyb3r Thr3at The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.13 23:36:00 - [62] CCP needs to fix the issues & simplify it.
J'Mkarr Soban Amarr Proxenetae Invicti	Posted - 2008.11.14 00:06:00 - [63] Originally by: Melanie Griffin Originally by: Kanagawa Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban The whole thing is a mess: why on Earth do I need resistence skills for active shield tanking? Those skills don't affect the active part of active tanking at all! Too literal of a translation. Effective active tanking requires high resists, hence the requirement. Yeah, but the resistance skills only affect passive modules. Well ok, they give a +1% for deactivated active modules, so ... Yes, exactly. Sorry, but "duh". If the module is off whilst I'm tanking, I need shot. Ergo, the resistance skills are pointless for, like I said, the active part of tanking. I also dislike the Multitasking requirement. I mean, I can target 6 ships. I only have 4 guns, and the only time I need to use one per target is if I'm in a mission and I have a ***load of frigs incoming. Nice idea, but like I've said elsewhere, they should really have discussed with the players who have efficiently maxxed their skills for their particular niche - something that's encouraged - where the skills are. In fact, an idea that popped into my head is an outside collaborative version of certificates that -really- matter. Tie it into eve-skills for validation if required for joining corps or epeen waving etc. -- These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work.*
Amon Fyre	Posted - 2008.11.14 00:35:00 - [64] Originally by: Owin Forsyth One certificate that I found particularly interesting is Common Ore Refiner. It is listed as a basic certificate yet it requires Refinery Foreman Standard. Already, we have a Basic Certificate, level 1, that is requiring a second level certificate, which seems illogical. Refinery Foreman Standard requires Scrap Metal Processing 2. The Scrap Metal Processing skill requires Refinery Efficiency 5 and Metallurgy 5. So, before you can receive the Basic Certificate of Common Ore Refiner, you have to max out two skills that are 3 X skills, taking 3 times longer than the common 1 X skills. Right on. It was pointed out in testing on SiSi and nothing happened. Most of the suggestions in this thread were brought up in testing and nothing happened. It's almost like the person implementing it was pulled away to work on something else. Some of the certifications had me revamp my training plan and some of them made me laugh and wonder if anyone at CCP was ever a miner or industrialist.
Tommy Tinker	Posted - 2008.11.19 15:40:00 - [65] Hey the concept of the certificate program is good, even the implementation looks slick. Its just the content. I'm sure its all data driven and can be cleaned up in a small patch release. So... has someone started to take the time to put together the real criteria for certs yet? Oh, and multitasking is great for mission/salvage and fleet combat. It just jumps into the "core" a little quick.
Morphisat Rakeriku Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.11.19 15:50:00 - [66] Looked at it once, 1st time i logged on Quantum Rise, and noticed the very weird req. for some certs. I doubt i'll ever look at it again.
Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO Minmatar 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.11.19 15:56:00 - [67] I have perfect gallente gunnery skills except all specializations are only 4 and trajectory at 4. Thats really the highest anybody should ever be encouraged to go, yet im only standard at gallente gunnery and only improved at turrets.
Grarr Dexx Amarr The Cosa Nostra La Cosa Nostra Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.19 16:00:00 - [68] Offer em a hand and they'll take an arm
Johncrab Minmatar XBeyond	Posted - 2008.11.19 19:46:00 - [69] This is just one of those examples where people get to wonder if actually there's someone in CCP that plays the game. All the devs say they do, they have expert chars on this and that, they love the game, they love pewpew and all that jazz... but then implement whole features that just make them look like **ed up noobs. Originally by:** Darth Vaders I said it before and i will say it again. The certificates although they are a cool idea are badly implemented and the way they are they actually mislead the new players instead of helping them. It seems to me as if the guy who made them like this has never bothered to play the game. QFT
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.11.19 19:54:00 - [70] Originally by: Sokratesz I like how some of the elite certificates require stupidly long skills like large autocannon and large artillery specialisation 5 All in all it's a very decent system to give people a bit more direction. And the 'Claim All' button is really nifty xD but without spec 5 you aren't elite and to the op, check out "Cruiser Advanced Blaster Turrets" and "Cruiser Advanced Rail Turrets" if you want to see if they can use t2 guns.
Xiaodown coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.19 20:17:00 - [71] how do you see another player's certs? I claimed a few on my alt, and then inspected him, and couldn't figure out where they're supposed to be visible. amidoingitwrong?

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