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Eddy Vasquez
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Posted - 2008.11.13 14:00:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Eddy Vasquez on 13/11/2008 14:01:17
I'm really curious who actually made this. The idea itself is absolutely great, but how can one mess it up that way?
Examples:
Gunnery:
Cruiser Hybrid Turret --> only standard and elite, no improved certificate. how... erm, i mean ... why ?!?
Basic needs medium hybrids 4, elite medium railgun/blaster spec 5 and others on 5. Makes sense, but why no improved cert for players that can actually use T2 ?!? Like medium hybrids 5, medium railgun/blaster spec 4. Thats the most important thing when u recruit people ...
This applies for all shipsizes and all weapon categories.
Drones the same ****:
Combat Drones Control ...
improved ---> Combat Drone OP 5
elite ---> Combat Drone OP 5 + the improved certificate ... lolies!
Who needs Combat Drone OP on 5 anyways? What you need is drones 5, scout drone operation 5 and the drone specilizations skills. In that 8 days for combat drone OP 5, you could train drone interfacing on 4, which gives a total of 80% more damage instead of 5%. What i'm saying is: Those final 5% don't matter, and you find lvl5 requirements at a lot of improved certificates. Such as Combat Drone Operation which doesn't enable anything.
Yeah, i know ... scout drone op and drone interfacing is allready in the drone control certificate. But can't you make it any more complicated for recruiters to verify the skills?
Whoever has done this earns my "Most unlogical tree ever" certificate 
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Dmian
Gallente
Gallenterrorisme
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Posted - 2008.11.13 14:07:00 -
[2]
Or maybe the devs know something you don't know...
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Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 14:12:00 -
[3]
I like how some of the elite certificates require stupidly long skills like large autocannon *and* large artillery specialisation 5 
All in all it's a very decent system to give people a bit more direction. And the 'Claim All' button is really nifty xD
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart |
Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
Art of War
Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 14:16:00 -
[4]
High requirements for highest rank skills are OK. But as it stands now they're wrong ones and in some cases don't make sense at all.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.11.13 14:17:00 -
[5]
You can blame me if it makes you feel better.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2008.11.13 14:18:00 -
[6]
The certificates live dev blog basically said that just a couple people made them up...but yeah, they should probably fix a few of the weird loops in the system
Also, capital class certificates would be excellent
_____________________
My opinions plus a tablespoon of water may be substituted for your own. |
Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 14:19:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Sokratesz
I like how some of the elite certificates require stupidly long skills like large autocannon *and* large artillery specialisation 5
All in all it's a very decent system to give people a bit more direction. And the 'Claim All' button is really nifty xD
Well, it IS the "Elite" category. I think it's totally reasonable to have an emphasis on fully-trained skills there.
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Drek Grapper
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.13 14:22:00 -
[8]
What does one do with these certificates anyways? I spotted the new tab on the ships descrition but have no frikking idea what they are for? 
--
"If itĘs true that our species is alone in the universe, then IĘd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little" George Carlin |
Ocih
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Posted - 2008.11.13 14:22:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Ocih on 13/11/2008 14:25:25
Alot of em left me scratching my head.
My miner toon isn't an Ice specialist because I didn't train her in Mining Drones. They also want Mining Upgrades 5. How many people trained Mining Upgrades 5?
Gadzooks! The mystery is unlocked!! That 4 cpu I save in Ice Upgrade 2 x 2 from Miner upgrade 5 is the critical component to being a master Ice Miner. Everyone knows the Exhumer is strapped for CPU.
Miner Upgrades: 4X skill. two weeks in the toilet for...
When I first logged, I was actually enthusiastic about this. Silly things like that make the game a bit more fun to play. But it soon became obvious I wasn't going to be changing skill regiments to accomodate the system.
/shrug
In fairness, there were a few skills I looked at and said.. yea I should have that...
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FlameGlow
Legio Octae
Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.13 14:28:00 -
[10]
Multitasking is on recommended skills for pretty much every ship, when most ppl don't even train targeting 5 and have no problems
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I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button. |
Orion GUardian
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.13 14:31:00 -
[11]
I like my multitasking 4 and 11 targets with auto targeter II ^^ [ok onyl because nothing else fits anyway]
BTW: dont use the system if you dont like it...soe skillrequirements are...unneessary for REALLY using some sort of stuff....I dont even have passive shield tanking basics, whil I used to use a drake on L4 passive....
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.11.13 14:57:00 -
[12]
The improved/elite certificates are only a problem if newbs (or anyone else) thinks that the idea is to train all the skills listed as elite requirements back to back to back to etc.
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Daan Sai
Polytrope
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Posted - 2008.11.13 15:04:00 -
[13]
They touted them as an aid to recruitment for corps, but didn't talk to actual corp recruiters to see what they needed to know :) Why am I not a suprised :)
I like them, but yeah, there are huge holes in their logic still. They need to consult with end users more!
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Edmar
Ship Depot
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Posted - 2008.11.13 15:18:00 -
[14]
The multitasking skill being needed for core elite is a bit odd. I'd bet there are a bunch of people training Targeting 5 right this moment.
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.11.13 15:20:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Edmar
The multitasking skill being needed for core elite is a bit odd. I'd bet there are a bunch of people training Targeting 5 right this moment.
Only if the certificates actually mean anything to anyone. I'd like to hear from any PvP corp directors ITT who are actually putting a lot of weight on what elite certificates people have.
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.11.13 15:38:00 -
[16]
My guess is that the devs that worked on the certs basicly set up some program that took skill sets and levels into account and generated the certs as there are alot of them that dont make practical sense.
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Owin Forsyth
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Posted - 2008.11.13 15:52:00 -
[17]
One certificate that I found particularly interesting is Common Ore Refiner.
It is listed as a basic certificate yet it requires Refinery Foreman Standard. Already, we have a Basic Certificate, level 1, that is requiring a second level certificate, which seems illogical.
Refinery Foreman Standard requires Scrap Metal Processing 2. The Scrap Metal Processing skill requires Refinery Efficiency 5 and Metallurgy 5. So, before you can receive the Basic Certificate of Common Ore Refiner, you have to max out two skills that are 3 X skills, taking 3 times longer than the common 1 X skills.
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2008.11.13 15:58:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 13/11/2008 15:58:51
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Only if the certificates actually mean anything to anyone. I'd like to hear from any PvP corp directors ITT who are actually putting a lot of weight on what elite certificates people have.
Well, I think for certs it'd be nice if there was the ability to display progress towards the next rank same as regular skills, because a lot of people won't have elite certs but they'll have most everything for it except one or two skills. If I have 95% of the skillpoints for the improved certification, but don't have level 4 silly-support skill to grab the actual certification, there should be some way of showing it
_____________________
My opinions plus a tablespoon of water may be substituted for your own. |
Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Universe At War
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Posted - 2008.11.13 16:04:00 -
[19]
It rather amused me that because I have targetting 3 and no long range targetting (strictly in your face with a blaster me) I fail almost all the basic core certificates (and with those missing lots of others as well) with my 13.5 million skillpoints 
I also don't think electronic upgrades are all that important unless you go covop.
Also, I agree with Eddy's comments about the drones certificates.
That all aside, I think the certificates will be very usefull for starting clueless players and I like 'm. Good first try !
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If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles - Sun Tzu |
Lrrp
Minmatar
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.11.13 16:10:00 -
[20]
Certificates: I clicked. I looked. I left.
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whisk
Gallente
Quam Singulari
Warp to Desktop
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Posted - 2008.11.13 16:13:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Lrrp
Certificates: I clicked. I looked. I left.
almost same here, exept i also did : "heh" to my self befor leaving
Adapt or Die
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Darth Vaders
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 16:19:00 -
[22]
I said it before and i will say it again.
The certificates although they are a cool idea are badly implemented and the way they are they actually mislead the new players instead of helping them. It seems to me as if the guy who made them like this has never bothered to play the game. |
Gaelenus
Gallente
Society of the Crimson Flame
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Posted - 2008.11.13 16:30:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Darth Vaders
I said it before and i will say it again.
The certificates although they are a cool idea are badly implemented and the way they are they actually mislead the new players instead of helping them. It seems to me as if the guy who made them like this has never bothered to play the game.
QFT,
I have to say a lot of the certificates dont make too much sense for me and some require skills that people baerly even bother to train.
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
The Crane Family
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Posted - 2008.11.13 16:33:00 -
[24]
I think you're overcritical. I think certificates can be very useful for corp recruiting and offer a guide to all the skills. It's certainly better than a huge list of skills and a lot of infos to read through.
There are some issues with the tree though, but nothing that some small adjustments can't fix. If you find some of these issues, why don't you bug report them? CCP has repeatedly said that they will monitor the situation closely, so chances are that adjustments will be made quickly. Just whining about them won't do anything that's for sure.
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Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 16:43:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 13/11/2008 16:43:08
I liked when astarte (i think) had recommended certificate: core competence elite. The one requiring multitasking at higher level - which already is above max numbers of targets astarte can lock. Uhm... so exactly why you recommend to have skill allowing me locking 8+ targets for ship which can lock up to 7 anyways?
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Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.13 16:52:00 -
[26]
who likes armor tnaking for huginn, or mining drones for ice specialist ?:D
Quote:
It's not a good idea to place a Exotic Dancers in a Giant Secure Container. The Exotic Dancers will not survive intact, if transported in such a container.
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Ticondrius
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.13 17:05:00 -
[27]
I like the system, but I don't like how a good deal of the certs are rather silly in what they require.
I think I'm going to put up a small webpage with 'fixed' certs later and link to it from here.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
RABBLE! RABBLERABBLE!!
MMORPG: Many Men Online Role Playing Girls |
Mallikan
Gallente
Plundering Penguins
Anarchy.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 17:26:00 -
[28]
I like the system tbh, and I feel that you have failed yourself by not liking it.
---
For great justice. Or something.
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Mallikan
Gallente
Plundering Penguins
Anarchy.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 17:29:00 -
[29]
And also...
Originally by: Eddy Vasquez
Combat Drones Control ...
improved ---> Combat Drone OP 5
elite ---> Combat Drone OP 5 + the improved certificate ...lolies!
Lolies??? Um... I'm going to need you to have a seat right over there. Don't know what drones have to do with CP...
---
For great justice. Or something.
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DubanFP
Caldari
Evil ALT Corp
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Posted - 2008.11.13 17:55:00 -
[30]
Since whoever chose the certificate system doesn't know EVE well i'll rewrite a tree that could express a player's skills much better later today. Hopefully CCP will listen ^^.
_______________
"White, Black, Minmitar, Achura, Male or Female it doesn't matter to me. I'm an equal opportunity killer" |
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