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Semi-Newtonian Flight System & Warp Drive suggestion

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Tac Ginaz Gallente Coalition of Nations	Posted - 2008.11.13 19:04:00 - [1] I would like to see EVE have a different flight system than it currently have. In fact, this game's flight system is no different from flight systems used in games since the 1990's... heck its no different than WING COMMANDER games of old. What I'd like to see in EVE are some flight system elements found in other games..these elements plugged into EVE would enhance Eve's game play tremendously. Warp Drive: Essentially, this is the crappiest element of the current flight system. EVE has a MASSIVE universe in which players can roam about... yet the warp drive forces people to narrow their lives on nav points and pre-set safespots in the middle of nowhere because there is NO WAY TO TRAVEL large distances without using the warp drive. In short, what EVE has now is a pretty version of a TELEPORT system. What we need is to have ships actually FLY the space between nav points and likewise, be able to fly anywhere inside a solar system using the same propulsion system. How to achieve this? It's rather easy actually. Make the warp drive be a faster version of the Microwarp Drive (ironic isn't it?). It is different however, in the sense that the Warp Drive has a speed control just like the ships have a speed control for their normal engines. Speed settings for the warp drive will be broken into 4 different speeds: Nav Warp, Standard Warp, Combat Warp and Emergency Warp. Each speed setting has an effect on the ship's primary energy systems (capacitor, shields) as well as the actual traveling speed. Entering Warp drive cancels out the capacitor and shield's regeneration rates to zero. NavWarp (N-Warp) - slowest warp speed, also the safest. Takes about 10 minutes to fly from one end of the solar system to the other end on this setting. N-Warp is the only warp speed that allows direction changes. Almost insignificant capacitor drain and no effect on other ship's energy systems. Standard Warp (S-Warp) - Faster than N-Warp, S-Warp allows crossing a solar system from one end to another in 6 minutes. No course changes can be made while in this speed setting. Ship's traveling at this speed consume capacitor at a higher rate and shields are gradually dissipated into the warp field. Combat Warp (C-Warp) - A dangerous setting to travel in for more than a couple of minutes, C-Warp allows travel from one end of a solar system to another in just 4 minutes. The strain this speed places on the ship however, is risky. C-Warp speeds will quickly drain a ship's shields and corrode armor and hull. Capacitor consumption rate to sustain this speed is slightly higher than S-Warp. Emergency Warp (E-Warp) - The final warp speed is considered by most ship manufacturers and podpilots alike to be, quite simply, the most elegant way to depart this universe... forever. E-Warp allows almost instant travel between one side of the solar system to another; taking only 1 minute to cross an entire solar system's width. The risks however,is extreme. No podpilot has ever emerged from prolonged E-warp with their hull intact. CONCORD has stated E-Warp to be illegal in 0.7 to 1.0 systems and suggests any pilots desperate enough to use this setting to do so in short bursts lasting a few seconds. The Warp process is simple: Before the warp field is activated, pilot may manouver his ship to align to the destination if it is known or may simply go to step #1 directly. 1- Pilot activates the Warp Field (effect: cuts capacitor and shield recharge to zero, creates 'warp tunnel' effect which is seen by pilot and by others as a fluid tunnel similar to that seen when a capital ship jumps. Activating Warp Field disables all active modules and increases ship's signature by 2000%) 2- Depending on pilot's needs, pilot then chooses the warp speed (N-Warp,S-Warp,C-Warp,E-Warp) and flies the distance. ------------------------------------------------- Citadel Torpedoes for Stealth Bombers! Sign Petition
Tac Ginaz Gallente Coalition of Nations	Posted - 2008.11.13 19:11:00 - [2] 3- To exit warp, all ships MUST slow down to N-Warp. Being pulled out of warp (warp bubble) without slowing down will cause a cascade failure in warp drive system that will render the warp drive inoperable for several minutes. Note: changing speed from lower warp speed to higher warp speed has a default capacitor cost. Lowering speed costs no capacitor. ---------------------------------------------------------0----------------------------------------------- FLIGHT SYSTEM: I would like to see this game give players a 'feel' for their ship's thrust-to-weight ratio. In short, I'd like: Small, light ships to have the best acceleration but the lowest top speeds and the best maneuvering ability. Big, heavy ships to have the worst acceleration but the highest top speeds and the worst maneuvering ability. So, we could see a frigate flying at a top speed of 400ms and achieving that speed from 0-400 in just 2 seconds while a battleship could fly at a top speed of 800ms but taking 2 minutes to achieve that speed. The frigate can turn on a dime sustaining its 400ms speed, the battleship would have a turn circle the size of a planet... or slow down after 1 minute then turn agonizingly slow. This flight system would introduce speed as a factor in combat maneuvers. ------------------------------------------------- Citadel Torpedoes for Stealth Bombers! Sign Petition
frsd Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2008.11.13 19:15:00 - [3] You do know that all systems havent got the same size and that different ships have different warp speeds? Would help alot to make those warp types into Mulipliers by the normal war speed of the ship. The NavWarp would allow pilots to never ever get caught in bubbles/gate camps if that are in a different part of the system from they are. And basically WarpSpeed is not relevent in most Systems, the most time is consumed entering and exiting Warp. Achieving higher wapr speeds for Combat also doesnt make much sense, since there arent many systems where you have to warp 60AU+, it would only affect the speed if it were entering/exiting speed. And once a ship enters/creates a warp field...its gone, the sig penalty wont do anything.
Icarus Flame Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.13 19:38:00 - [4] ..... Do you really think that people are going to want to spend 6 minutes warping from one end of a system to another? This proposal would make hauling and travel interminable, and make the EVE universe far more static and dull than it is now.
smartx	Posted - 2008.11.13 20:23:00 - [5] Edited by: smartx on 13/11/2008 20:23:57 Originally by: Icarus Flame ..... Do you really think that people are going to want to spend 6 minutes warping from one end of a system to another? This proposal would make hauling and travel interminable, and make the EVE universe far more static and dull than it is now. i agree. it could be a good idea but make it go faster FASTER!! oh and how are we gonna do combat well then? it will be VERY hard to track ppl if we would do this... come up with a solution for htis problem and i give the suggestion a 5/5!
Tac Ginaz Gallente Coalition of Nations	Posted - 2008.11.13 20:56:00 - [6] FRSD: Yes, ships have different warp speeds. Just modify the set speeds with it. My sugesstion is not set in stone :) Oh, and no, what I meant by 'combat warp' is NOT that you can fight at warp speeds. Once you enter warp you lose locks, cant target, cannot activate modules AND your shield and capacitor recharge drop to zero. I put 'combat warp' simply because in a combat situation.. moving from one place to another or exiting or entering a combat zone, pilots will be better off using this one. The sig penalty is there because a ship can activate its warp field and still not be at warp speed but still flying at normal speed. As the whole point of this system is for people to be able to FLY between spots in the solar system rather than an insta-teleport system, you need to allow pilots to activate the warp field first then enter warp when they want to. The penalty is there as well to prevent the warp field activation to be abused.. you can easily imagine people switching the field on and off to enter N-warp and be impossible to catch (think super-nano vagabond). the big signature means you flip the thing on you lose lock but you're still locked AND youll be very vulnerable the second or two it takes you to enter warp speed. Icarus: Read my post carefully: 6 minutes from one end of the system to another at N-Warp. If a solar system is 10 AU in width, you will find the nav points and most stargates to be just 3 to 6 AU apart. Meaning barely 2 to 3 minutes flight time. Hauling? Maybe this makes ships with BIG holds like the orca and freighters a lot more convenient to use. Travel? Well, up to you. You have C and E-Warp too! You can travel with lots of armor repair and hull repair units for max. travel speed ;) Smartx: As mentioned in this post, you do not fight battles in warp. In fact, N-Warp is quite fast... you'd be traveling about half a grid per second or such. N-Warp allows you to turn ship then you can accelerate to S-Warp or C-Warp once aligned (or drop out of warp, align and enter the faster warp). It will make battles a lot more fluid, allows players to make full use of the 'space' in a solar system (and CCP could maybe put rats to spawn in random spots in the system and let players scan them down and attack them)... interdictors could be ships that can FOLLOW and catch up with people in warp and force them out back into normal space. lots of possibilities. ------------------------------------------------- Citadel Torpedoes for Stealth Bombers! Sign Petition
Che Biko Polytechnique Gallenteenne	Posted - 2008.11.13 21:04:00 - [7] I like the idea of warp travel being more like normal travel, but I don't like some of the OP's details. For example, why would "combat warp" damage your armor? I like this more: Orbit warp: (0.01-0.1) au/s used for flying around a planet and between it's moons and asteroids and starbases. Course adjustment possible. Drains shield Standard Warp: (0.1- max speed) au/s used for larger distances, no course adjustment possible. Drains shield Combat warp: optional for orbit warp and standard warp. without shield drain, increases capacitor use Emergency: uses all capacitor, drains shield completely goes to a preset destination at max speed x2, chance of damage to equipment or engine. Capacitor use is based on distance travelled. (like now) Or something else like that.
frsd Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2008.11.13 21:19:00 - [8] Ok, some thing i havent understood before, now N-Warp would still be a "on-grid" warp at lets say 125km/s(even for this warping 1AU would take 13.8 days ) So maybe i havent understood your concept yet but well. Now the other thing with the signature, what you are describing is a MWD, a module that is creates a SUB-WARP and allows higher speeds at a signature radius drawback.
Tac Ginaz Gallente Coalition of Nations	Posted - 2008.11.13 21:52:00 - [9] Che: Armor and hull damage are there because otherwise armor tankers would happily be enjoying higher warp speeds without penalty. Granted, shield tankers will be at a disadvantage as shields go out first..but at least armor tankers get affected as well. FRSD- MWD is a microwarp drive.. as such, entering full warp should kick your signature to gigantic proportions. N-Warp is not to be an 'on-grid' travel speed. all warp speeds are merely to travel through the solar system. I know my math is off, this is just a concept im putting forth. Let CCP worry about the math :) I went in-game and took a quick look at distances. From one end to another to another of the solar system I was in was 70 AU. At current warp speeds of my BC (3 AU /s ) it would take it 23 seconds to fly that distance. What I'd like to see is: N-Warp: 10 minutes. 600 seconds. = 0.1AU /s S-Warp: 6 minutes. 360 seconds. = 0.19 AU /s C-Warp: 4 Minutes. 240 seconds. = 0.29 AU /s E-Warp: 1 minute. 60 seconds. 1.16 AU /s And to give you an idea, in the solar systems I checked, most stargates are within 10 AU of each other. 10AU means 10 seconds in e-warp, 34 seconds in c-warp, 52 seconds in S-warp, 100 seconds in N-Warp. The bigger the ship, the bigger the shield and armor HP, making large vessels 'better' at handling long duration warp speeds. This also introduces a factor in combat where chasing people around a system means the bigger, more durable vessel has a chance to outrun the smaller ships chasing it as they'd need to enter higher warp speeds to follow ..and suffer the consequences. And, here's another good thing for you. CCP could simply add ACCELERATION GATES near the stargates to propel people at our current warp speeds..for a price. (isk sink!). Those accel gates could be aimed at other stargates. ------------------------------------------------- Citadel Torpedoes for Stealth Bombers! Sign Petition
Tac Ginaz Gallente Coalition of Nations	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:13:00 - [10] ------------------------------------------------- Citadel Torpedoes for Stealth Bombers! Sign Petition
frsd Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:39:00 - [11] Sounds more interesting now :)
Daevonar Minmatar Starfish Operating Syndicate	Posted - 2008.11.14 13:01:00 - [12] Edited by: Daevonar on 14/11/2008 13:03:46 I'm sorry I just dont really get it. How does your suggestion maker it so that people use more of space? You are just going to set your destination, choose your warp speed and then wait until you arrive... doing nothing in between. The speeds you are talking about make it impossible to actually see the scenery, or any ships as you will pass too quickly, and even if you d osee them you wont be able to go back to that spot in time. No combat will take place anywhere but where ships stop to do something, i.e stations, belts, planets, moons, gates. Space is vast, who actualyl wants to travel in all the empty bits? Seems you are just adding a lot of tedium of travel, for absolutely no benefit. I prefer the current system, it's much more realistic in my opinion (i.e. more how people are likely to travel through space if we ever achieved FTL flight). It may be a pretty well used idea, but thats only because it was a good one to start with. Your idea of high speed chases is interesting and sounds good. But even at the lower 'n warp' speed you will be travelling too fast to react to what the other person is doing. Unless you have the exact heading they do you will end up, after only a few seconds travel, a very long way away from them. Dae.
Miss Rumpelstilzchen Minmatar Black Horizon Ltd	Posted - 2008.11.14 13:12:00 - [13] well its a nice idea for a RPG game .. but not for a game like EvE .. what is a PvP Game. may only suggestionis .. make it posible to activate your warpdrive when u want and shut it down too woohoo unprobable Savespots
Tac Ginaz Gallente Coalition of Nations	Posted - 2008.11.15 06:17:00 - [14] Originally by: Miss Rumpelstilzchen well its a nice idea for a RPG game .. but not for a game like EvE .. what is a PvP Game. may only suggestionis .. make it posible to activate your warpdrive when u want and shut it down too woohoo unprobable Savespots umm.. thats the idea. As long as you're in N-warp you can change course and you can slow down from N-Warp to out of warp (its why you click on 'activate warp drive' as a separate icon next to the engine controls... you can turn it off to exit warp.
Icarus Flame Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.15 06:40:00 - [15] This is better, and I think it has potential, but you're still going to have the problem of VASTLY increased travel times - most people will use "S-warp" and take a couple minutes just to warp between gates. It's just too long. Until you can work around that I can't say I support this concept.
Daevonar Minmatar Starfish Operating Syndicate	Posted - 2008.11.15 14:21:00 - [16] Some more issues with this... I'm not sure where you looked to check the distance apart of gates and stations etc, but I regulalrly travel 30-60au to go between them... not much fun with your suggestion. Also, how on earth do you actually make sure you stop at your destination if you have to manually slow down? You'd be constantly overshooting where you want to be, turning around and doing the same thing again... that or travelling so slowly for the last part of your journey that it'll take forever to reach it. This would just be torturous. Unless of course you add an auto stop option, in which case you just have the current system back again.
Tac Ginaz Gallente Coalition of Nations	Posted - 2008.11.15 16:26:00 - [17] Originally by: Daevonar Some more issues with this... I'm not sure where you looked to check the distance apart of gates and stations etc, but I regulalrly travel 30-60au to go between them... not much fun with your suggestion. As I mentioned earlier, CCP could just add acceleration gates to each star gate which allows players to be warped at 3 AU / S to another gate in the system. That should take care of things and would actually make the game look like a busy starlane with ships jumping in, flying to the accel gate and using it. Quote: Also, how on earth do you actually make sure you stop at your destination if you have to manually slow down? You'd be constantly overshooting where you want to be, turning around and doing the same thing again... that or travelling so slowly for the last part of your journey that it'll take forever to reach it. This would just be torturous. Unless of course you add an auto stop option, in which case you just have the current system back again. At 0.1 AU / S speed at N-Warp gives you roughly 10 seconds time to use your directional scanner. With this scanner you could select the contact and have the ship lock onto it as a navigation reference point and make your ship exit warp when you enter the grid in which that contact is located. An on-screen navigation HUD overlay could be added to the game for warp navigation. Since while at warp you will still see the warp tunnel around you, you could have the game show you 'flight path' hud indicators that take you to a pre-set nav coordinate (bookmark, nav point, planet, etc). For pre-saved safespots you could use the bookmark system...rather than it giving you the options of 'warp to 0' / 'warp to 10-100km' , it could give you the option of 'Align To' and 'Lock Nav Coordinates' .. the first aligns your ship for you (be it before or during N-warp), the other one will kick you out of warp when you in the grid. ------------------------------------------------- Citadel Torpedoes for Stealth Bombers! Sign Petition
Tac Ginaz Gallente Coalition of Nations	Posted - 2008.11.16 17:54:00 - [18] hoping CCP has read this :)
Bynara	Posted - 2008.11.16 18:27:00 - [19] I like the basic idea. yet it still leaves much to be desired..scanners and the ability to use long range scanners even in varing warp speeds would be handy and usefull. scanning ability and accuracy would of course be dependant on skills and ship size. larger ships having far better scanners and range. this would allow one to actually navigate to where they wanted to go, as well as pinpoint ships within thier scan range.....making the "local" channel that gives away Who is in system without them speaking obsolete....(a much needed change i might add) and allow for a more pilot interactive navigation exp at the same time.......might even make for some lost pilots in uncharted and unknown areas of space....NICE!!!!
Nikuno	Posted - 2008.11.18 11:23:00 - [20] Outside the effect of gravity there is only mass, not weight. Mass is constant at non-relativistic speeds, weight varies according to the accelaration due to the force applied (by gravity for example) on that mass. Nowhere does your suggestion begin to describe anything even vaguely Newtonian. Your suggestions for varying warp speeds don't really add anything to game play either, except to make the mundane elements of travel even more tedious. The possibilties of open-ended, non-destination specific warp and of some sort of in-warp interdiction/interaction have all been covered in other posts to better effect.
Ashley Thomas Kiith Paktu Nex Eternus	Posted - 2008.11.18 15:04:00 - [21] so, basically, i can point my ship in any direction, hit n warp, and be completely safe while i go afk with any ship without even fitting a cloak. thats what i see happening here
Vatek Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.11.18 16:40:00 - [22] Edited by: Vatek on 18/11/2008 16:40:31 What I'm getting from this is that you're proposing to increase travel times exponentially for no real benefit. Who in their right mind would want to spend 5-10 minutes crossing a SINGLE solar system in this game? Travel is already a tedious exercise in warping and clicking gates, and you want to make it take longer than it already does?

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