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An easy way to prevent GTC token scams.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Davina Braben	Posted - 2008.11.14 01:22:00 - [31] I agree with the OP tbh. In game items with a theoretical RL cash value are one thing. In game items with a real direct RL cash value are another. It is a whole different kettle of fish letting people scam other people for what basically amounts to RL money.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.11.14 01:23:00 - [32] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 14/11/2008 01:25:15 Originally by: Brea Lafail If these things were just another game item, you would be able to undock with them. A interesting point. However, the logic behind this is easily deduced. The reason they don't let you remove them from station (and I believe this has been stated) is so they don't inadvertently end up getting destroyed. If this were allowed, it would be possible for CCP to receive a payment for subscription time, and have it rendered impossible for that subscription time to be redeemed, essentially allowing CCP to get money for nothing. This would be unacceptable, as in this instance real money is lost, an item with real world value is bought, and that real world value is removed. However, this logic does not apply to scamming, as the PLEX card can still be used after a scam, a player has merely done themselves out of some in-game ISKies. The real-world value of the item is intact, all the 'damage' is done purely in-game, and such in-game losses are part of EVE life. So, while there is a genuine reason to treat them as a special item to prevent their destruction, the only reason one could have to treat them as a special item to prevent scamming is still to protect stupid players. tl;dr: Destroying a PLEX card destroys real world value, scamming merely parts you with ISKies. - DesuSigs
Koyama Ise Caldari Equestrian Knight Order of Lolicon	Posted - 2008.11.14 02:13:00 - [33] Edited by: Koyama Ise on 14/11/2008 02:14:55 One way to make people happy about this is allowing them to determine a price range that will show up for the item and not just the entire market. Cause at the moment I can make it so everything under price y or above price x doesn't show but I can't say for item z under price y doesn't show and above price x doesn't show. It's a market UI feature that could probably be implemented client side assuming CCP hasn't coded the market entirely wierd. Originally by: Crumplecorn ISKs aren't real money. Full stop. ISK... sorry couldn't resist...
Davina Braben	Posted - 2008.11.14 02:19:00 - [34] Quote: Originally by: Davina Braben It is a whole different kettle of fish letting people scam other people for what basically amounts to RL money. ISKs aren't real money. Full stop. If you are confused about this, stop buying ISK for a minute and re-evaluate your grip on reality. Well comma in general usage as ingame currency I agree full stop It's different when we're talking about paying for subs full stop new paragraph GTC sales are already kind of grey area full stop An uncomfortable grey area because it makes the basic rule that all ISK is property of CCP a bit questionable full stop new paragraph Taking that one step further and making an ingame GTC equivalent subject to all the usual vagaries of the contract system propels the whole thing into some weird territory of the sort I'd imagine CCP would probably rather leave to Linden Labs full stop
ArcDragon Caldari FUSION INDUSTRIES	Posted - 2008.11.14 22:49:00 - [35] This is my last comment for this post and I think I can make an excellent point. The new Game Time Tokens, or PLEX's, can only exist within the game as a direct result of a player sending CCP cash. They can not be mined, they can not be constructed and they can not even travel like every other "in game" item. It is not hard to see such a relationship and description being true. It is because these particular items are UNIQUE and fully and DIRECTLEY represent a monetary value which the parent company (CCP) has implied the uniqueness of by making them not being transportable like say, a ship or a module or a skill book or minerals, and as such they should NOT be subject to the normal methods of scamming. Liability could be an issue (jursdiction unknown) if a court saw that the company allowed this "money marker" to be subjected to the entire Eve player base but did nothing to stop the scamming (theft) of these items. Again, why would you NOT do this for your player base CCP? Can you imagine the turn off that occurs when potential new players find out that you can be SCAMMED out of real life money??? CCP, are you nuts? I applaud this idea of PLEX's and them being on the market and available in contracts, that's a great all Eve maneuver, but I'd rather them NOT be available like this if CCP is not at least willing to take some kind of measure for protection on just these items. It's real money and therefore unique and should therefore be treated as such. SUMMARY: For scams: 1) It's just stupid people that get scammed 2) It's just an in game item, treat it like my 75mm railgun please 3) It's just a typo dude, chill out Against scams: 1) It only enters the game via a cash purchase, it therefore counts more like real life money than any other item 2) There is enough resources available to CCP to actually implement a sa*aurd of some kind 3) If I find out that CCP has the ability to stop me from selling to someone playing a typo game and they did nothing at all.... Proposed fix:** Instead of removing them, and instead of doing nothing, let's compromise: 1) Code the condition that if a game time token (PLEX) is involved in any contract then it must be the ONLY item in that contract. 2) Code that a game time token (PLEX)can never be included in a "Want to Buy" contract. I don't think I am asking a lot, especially considering that these might as well be real cash sitting in a space station. Please do something to help the stupid, help the ones that can't type, help the ones that can't read and especially help those that don't know any better because they have only played the game for a month. PS: If I got scammed out of one of these I'd definatly feel like I had been robbed. Until there are more safeguards I will not use them in any manner. So if you want these to be more successful for all of your players, make the announcement that they are scam proofed in some manner. I'll bet it helps! Respectfully, Arc. If it has a SAVE button...I'm not interested.
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.14 23:20:00 - [36] Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 14/11/2008 23:21:41 Originally by: ArcDragon Poor point Your idea completely falls apart on one crucial issue. Imagine CCP just flat out one day said *"Instead of this GTC rubbish, lets just let players buy ISK with money from us"* If I am then scammed out of that ISK, is CCP liable in any way? Of course not. And lets extend this further. Imagine I buy a GTC with cash. Then I sell that GTC for 350 mil ISK. I then get scammed into purchasing a Raven advertised as a CNR for 350 mil. Should CCP be accountable, since I may as well have just been scammed for the GTC? Of course not! You pay CCP real cash for a service, which is access to a bunch of database entries which you have restricted read and modification rights to, and the interface onto this just happens to be a space simulation. CCP is not forcing you to exchange a 60 day GTC for these plex items. If you choose to do so, you take every risk that goes with it. If you stuff up and lose that to a cheap buy order because you were an idiot and didn't read the contract properly, CCP is no more liable than if I bought a months subscription, forgot I going away somewhere for a month (aka was an idiot), and never logged in during that period.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.11.14 23:29:00 - [37] Originally by: ArcDragon The same crap again PLEX cards aren't real money. It being treated in a special manner as regards movement does not imply that it should necessarily be treated in a special manner as regards anything else. Since your entire argument is still predicated on these, it fails. Originally by: ArcDragon scamming (theft) Idiot. - DesuSigs
RedLion Caldari State Constructions	Posted - 2008.11.14 23:36:00 - [38] I support this feature! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Gallenteans must be destroyed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
FunzzeR Statistical Arbitrage	Posted - 2008.11.14 23:45:00 - [39] Edited by: FunzzeR on 14/11/2008 23:47:59 I honestly don't understand how people can fall for most of the scams in eve, as they all rely on failure of the buyer to do their due dilligence and pay attention. It would be much simpler if people followed two simple rules: 1. Trust no one. 2. If it seems too good to be true... it usually is. Eve should not be made more idiot proof than it already is.
needrandomnamegenerator	Posted - 2008.11.14 23:47:00 - [40] Originally by: ArcDragon delusional babbling You are quite possibly the dumbest man/woman on these forums, why can you just stop being daft and admit it? You were pretty much doomed to failure in this thread by using the end tag of my first sentence in reference to the first poster. You do understand that your way of seeing things could possibly flawed, as you, and your knowledge of the world, and its varied court systems is obviously not perfect?

Rexthor Hammerfists Rage of Inferno	Posted - 2008.11.14 23:54:00 - [41] Would be nice to have some sort of filter option for contracts, like only showing ItemX from 10m to 60m
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.15 00:05:00 - [42] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists Would be nice to have some sort of filter option for contracts, like only showing ItemX from 10m to 60m There is. Click the advanced options on the contracts page.
Celestal	Posted - 2008.11.15 03:58:00 - [43] CCP has not made any special exceptions for the PLEX items. They are treated as regular in-game items with regards to market orders and contracts. Scams are easily avoidable by careful scrutiny of market orders and contracts and we urge anyone to be alert when dealing in PLEXes. As ccp have made it public on many occasions that they actively encourage scamming and now they consider PLEXes to be scammable items they can shove PLEXes up their arses , I will only deal in secure gtc trading ( as long as ccp keep it secure )


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