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Brujo Loco
Amarr
Brujeria Teologica
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Posted - 2008.11.14 02:34:00 -
[1]
LINK
Discuss
kkthnx
Viva VENEZUELA!!!
Archipelago Theory
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.11.14 02:44:00 -
[2]
I'm..... thats just... wow. Someone needs to be dragged into the back and shot for this.
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Kravick Drasari
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Posted - 2008.11.14 02:48:00 -
[3]
This is what happens when punishing your kids is considered child abuse. Had these parents been able to take a belt to their kids like it should be these children wouldn't be so out of control that their parents feel the need to abandon them out of pure fear/frustration/anger/hate/loathing or all of the above.
Did you know that in America if your kid hits you and you back hand the little punk to put him/her in his/her place and leave a bruise you are now considered an abusive parent and the state will take your children away and press charges against you? The children know, and they abuse the hell out of this system.
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My cat Putter approves of this post. |
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
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Posted - 2008.11.14 02:58:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Kravick Drasari
This is what happens when punishing your kids is considered child abuse. Had these parents been able to take a belt to their kids like it should be these children wouldn't be so out of control that their parents feel the need to abandon them out of pure fear/frustration/anger/hate/loathing or all of the above.
Did you know that in America if your kid hits you and you back hand the little punk to put him/her in his/her place and leave a bruise you are now considered an abusive parent and the state will take your children away and press charges against you? The children know, and they abuse the hell out of this system.
This.
It's stupid. The Woodshed is an American tradition. How do people expect to discipline their kids? "GO TO YOUR ROOM", ooooh wow, now THAT's a threat  .
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Xrak
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.11.14 03:04:00 -
[5]
A good parent is the one who doesn't need to use violence.
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Atomos Darksun
Infortunatus Eventus
Obsidian Empire
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Posted - 2008.11.14 03:28:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Xrak
A good parent is the one who doesn't need to use violence.
Are you a parent?
Originally by: Amoxin
My vent is talking to me in a devil voice...
Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming |
Crimsonjade
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.11.14 03:32:00 -
[7]
99.9% of these kids are better off. as anyone who would dump them is usually and id almost guarantee a pile of ****
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Kravick Drasari
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Posted - 2008.11.14 03:32:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Kravick Drasari on 14/11/2008 03:34:57
Originally by: Xrak
A good parent is the one who doesn't need to use violence.
That is also a parent who is their kids *****. I've seen the difference first hand the difference a belt vs a stern talking too can do.
My father gave me the belt when I did stupid ****. Stupid **** I deserved to get the belt for. Not because I didn't do my homework or or said a swear word. That was what "go to your room" was for. I'm talking about pulling the fire alarm at school, setting off bombs in the back yard fulled by lawnmower gas, and chucking black walnuts (had a black walnut tree in my back yard) at the neighbors dog. You might not think black walnuts are not a big deal but they're 5 times harder than an English walnut and can do serious bodily harm. Its like being hit with a rock.
After my parents got divorced my sister, brother, and myself was forced to live with my mother. I obviously had no say in the matter or I would have gone with my father. My mother believes in the no hitting a child ever. As a result my brother is about to flunk out of high school. Not because hes doing drugs or is a gangbanger, but because he doesn't care. He sits at home and plays Guitar Hero 3 and those ****ty console FPS games all day long. When my mother tries to take away his XBox or PS3 he hits her and takes it back. Yes, literally hits my mother. I have witnessed this myself. He even punches holes in the wall when he can't get his way. My mothers house is full of these such holes. I'd love to do something about it but our injustice system is so ****ed up here that there is nothing I can do short of doing something that puts me in jail.
My sister has become a stuck up sand in the vag ***** all the time. There isn't a moment that doesn't go by she isn't screeching like a harpy and nagging about one thing or another. All she does is *****, whine, and moan. When she doesn't get what she wants she throws **** and calls my mom a worthless *****. I'd back hand her ass myself for that alone if it wouldn't land me in jail for assault on a minor.
I did none of these things and here I am capable of rational thought and able to support myself and my EVE-Online addition.
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My cat Putter approves of this post. |
Xrak
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.11.14 03:41:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kravick Drasari
Edited by: Kravick Drasari on 14/11/2008 03:34:57
That is also a parent who is their kids *****. I've seen the difference first hand the difference a belt vs a stern talking too can do.
My father gave me the belt when I did stupid ****. Stupid **** I deserved to get the belt for. Not because I didn't do my homework or or said a swear word. That was what "go to your room" was for. I'm talking about pulling the fire alarm at school, setting off bombs in the back yard fulled by lawnmower gas, and chucking black walnuts (had a black walnut tree in my back yard) at the neighbors dog. You might not think black walnuts are not a big deal but they're 5 times harder than an English walnut and can do serious bodily harm. Its like being hit with a rock.
After my parents got divorced my sister, brother, and myself was forced to live with my mother. I obviously had no say in the matter or I would have gone with my father. My mother believes in the no hitting a child ever. As a result my brother is about to flunk out of high school. Not because hes doing drugs or is a gangbanger, but because he doesn't care. He sits at home and plays Guitar Hero 3 and those ****ty console FPS games all day long. When my mother tries to take away his XBox or PS3 he hits her and takes it back. Yes, literally hits my mother. I have witnessed this myself. He even punches holes in the wall when he can't get his way. My mothers house is full of these such holes. I'd love to do something about it but our injustice system is so ****ed up here that there is nothing I can do short of doing something that puts me in jail.
My sister has become a stuck up sand in the vag ***** all the time. There isn't a moment that doesn't go by she isn't screeching like a harpy and nagging about one thing or another. All she does is *****, whine, and moan. When she doesn't get what she wants she throws **** and calls my mom a worthless *****. I'd back hand her ass myself for that alone if it wouldn't land me in jail for assault on a minor.
I did none of these things and here I am capable of rational thought and able to support myself and my EVE-Online addition.
Because you don't sound like an angry, bitter person at all.
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.11.14 03:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Atomos Darksun
Originally by: Xrak
A good parent is the one who doesn't need to use violence.
Are you a parent?
A more important question should be has he/she ever been a kid? I look back at some of the crap I did and I feel like wailing on my younger self if I could. The concept that a gentle hand is all that is needed is complete bull, a parent needs to know when to apply the stick and when to apply the carrot.
Today you got kids who know how to manipulate the system so they get what they want, and you know what, theres alot of those kids. You want to know something that will make you crap your pants? Those kids are going to become adults.
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Arvald
Caldari
Ninjas N Pirates
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Posted - 2008.11.14 03:52:00 -
[11]
hell my dad used to take the belt to my ass when i did stupid stuff, and when i started ****ing up in school he would get in my face and not really yell, but was very sturn with me and i love him for it, he single handedly turned me from a ****ant little whiny teenager, into a successful person. yes parents should disiplin their kids and anyone who sais otherwise is doing it wrong
(and apparantly i cant spell)
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Kravick Drasari
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Posted - 2008.11.14 04:03:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Kravick Drasari on 14/11/2008 04:06:07
Originally by: Xrak
Because you don't sound like an angry, bitter person at all.
No, I'm an American. Apparently we're all born this way.
Seriously though, I'm not bitter in general. Just bitter that you'd say something so completely asinine.
Just so we're clear. I like my father more than I like my mother. My father was the one who hit me with a belt before my parents split up. My mother never laid a hand on me. Ever. Don't get me wrong, I love both my parents, but I actually respect my father. I think my mother is borderline ******ed. <-- Ok, apparently this word is filtered? WTF? Its a very very very very dumb person.
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My cat Putter approves of this post. |
Zyck
KDS Navy
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Posted - 2008.11.14 04:05:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Xrak
Because you don't sound like an angry, bitter person at all.
You'd be bitter too in his position. If you'll care to use your critical thinking skills you'll note it's not his own upbringing he's bitter about. It's the (lack of) one caused by these ridiculous "child abuse" laws.
-Zyck |
Kravick Drasari
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Posted - 2008.11.14 04:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Zyck
Originally by: Xrak
Because you don't sound like an angry, bitter person at all.
You'd be bitter too in his position. If you'll care to use your critical thinking skills you'll note it's not his own upbringing he's bitter about. It's the (lack of) one caused by these ridiculous "child abuse" laws.
This too.
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My cat Putter approves of this post. |
Mr Friendly
The Lost and The Damned
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Posted - 2008.11.14 04:34:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Xrak
A good parent is the one who doesn't need to use violence.
Ohnoes real parents have apparently failed Internet Parents' test.
Obviously, breaking your child's nose is inappropriate in almost any situation, but it's got to the point where smacking your child lightly on the bum to get their attention (after multiple verbal warnings) is illegal. And that's silly.
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Neyro7830
Gallente
Stormfront A.W.
Stormfront J.U.N.T.A.
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Posted - 2008.11.14 04:38:00 -
[16]
My younger sibling is a whiner too, she has my step father wrapped around her finger. If she had been beaten more as a child, it wouldn't be that way. If the child doesn't respect the parent, the parent isn't doing their job.
I wasn't beaten enough as a child myself, but I'm making up for it now...
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I cannot be held responsible for the above post, because apparently,my cat has learned to type. :3 |
Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2008.11.14 04:40:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kravick Drasari
This is what happens when punishing your kids is considered child abuse. Had these parents been able to take a belt to their kids like it should be these children wouldn't be so out of control that their parents feel the need to abandon them out of pure fear/frustration/anger/hate/loathing or all of the above.
Did you know that in America if your kid hits you and you back hand the little punk to put him/her in his/her place and leave a bruise you are now considered an abusive parent and the state will take your children away and press charges against you? The children know, and they abuse the hell out of this system.
Hey just tell the little brats that their foster parents are likely to molest them and no-one would care about them once they're off the radar. If they cry wolf too many times even the social services won't believe them and they will suffer.
Delenda est achura. |
Xrak
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.11.14 04:41:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Xrak on 14/11/2008 04:41:50
Originally by: Kravick Drasari
Edited by: Kravick Drasari on 14/11/2008 04:08:48
Originally by: Zyck
Originally by: Xrak
Because you don't sound like an angry, bitter person at all.
You'd be bitter too in his position. If you'll care to use your critical thinking skills you'll note it's not his own upbringing he's bitter about. It's the (lack of) one caused by these ridiculous "child abuse" laws.
This too.
I'd also like to add that if you are seen disciplining your child in public you can have child services called on you and you will be investigated for child abuse. Thats how bad it is.
I highly doubt that disciplining your child in public would cause someone to ring child services. Now maybe if you are using corporal punishment on them, yes.
Corporal punishment and discipline are not the same thing and are definitely not interchangeable.
You don't have to be a parent to have experience with children or know about their behaviour etc.
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Kravick Drasari
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Posted - 2008.11.14 04:45:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Kravick Drasari on 14/11/2008 04:46:17
Originally by: Xrak
I highly doubt that disciplining your child in public would cause someone to ring child services. Now maybe if you are using corporal punishment on them yes
Corporal punishment and discipline are not the same thing and are definitely not interchangeable.
You don't have to be a parent to have experience with children or know about their behaviour etc.
You're obviously not an American. You obviously don't understand how bad it has gotten in this country.
Heres proof. http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79008
To add insult to injury, a red mark that leaves no actual bruise is considered "light bruising."
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My cat Putter approves of this post. |
Mr Friendly
The Lost and The Damned
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Posted - 2008.11.14 04:50:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Xrak
I highly doubt that disciplining your child in public would cause someone to ring child services. Now maybe if you are using corporal punishment on them, yes.
Corporal punishment and discipline are not the same thing and are definitely not interchangeable.
You don't have to be a parent to have experience with children or know about their behaviour etc.
As for the first, you are sadly wrong, particularly if you live in N.America. It's classed as abuse if you touch children in anger, let alone heinously spank them. It's ridiculous.
As for the second, I'd agree as I'm only an uncle... however, I know the benefit to using physical discipline to teach my nephews how to act when they've ignored all other warnings.
They *know* I'm not fooling and don't like being spanked. Their reward is love. Their punishment is a bit of pain and embarrassment. They don't choose pain and haven't since the very first time I gave their bottom a wallop. That was 3 years ago.
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Xrak
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.11.14 04:56:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mr Friendly
Originally by: Xrak
I highly doubt that disciplining your child in public would cause someone to ring child services. Now maybe if you are using corporal punishment on them, yes.
Corporal punishment and discipline are not the same thing and are definitely not interchangeable.
As for the first, you are sadly wrong, particularly if you live in N.America. It's classed as abuse if you touch children in anger, let alone heinously spank them. It's ridiculous.
Discipline does NOT mean physical punishment. Punishment and discipline are two very distinct concepts and they should not be used interchangeably as they so often are.
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Corwain
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.11.14 05:07:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Corwain on 14/11/2008 05:08:22
Originally by: Xrak
Discipline does NOT mean physical punishment. Punishment and discipline are two very distinct concepts and they should not be used interchangeably as they so often are.
S: (n) discipline, correction (the act of punishing) "the offenders deserved the harsh discipline they received"
S: (v) discipline, correct, sort out (punish in order to gain control or enforce obedience) "The teacher disciplined the pupils rather frequently"
http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=discipline
Punishment can indeed be physical.
--
Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
Xrak
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.11.14 05:19:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Corwain
S: (n) discipline, correction (the act of punishing) "the offenders deserved the harsh discipline they received"
S: (v) discipline, correct, sort out (punish in order to gain control or enforce obedience) "The teacher disciplined the pupils rather frequently"
http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=discipline
Punishment can indeed be physical.
S: (v) discipline, train, check, condition (develop (children's) behaviour by instruction and practice; especially to teach self-control) "Parents must discipline their children"
As I said, discipline does not mean physical punishment, in the same way physical punishment does not mean discipline.
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Corwain
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.11.14 06:11:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Xrak
Originally by: Corwain
S: (n) discipline, correction (the act of punishing) "the offenders deserved the harsh discipline they received"
S: (v) discipline, correct, sort out (punish in order to gain control or enforce obedience) "The teacher disciplined the pupils rather frequently"
http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=discipline
Punishment can indeed be physical.
S: (v) discipline, train, check, condition (develop (children's) behavior by instruction and practice; especially to teach self-control) "Parents must discipline their children"
As I said, discipline does not mean physical punishment, in the same way physical punishment does not mean discipline.
Words have multiple definitions. You claimed that someone else's definition of the word "discipline" was invalid. I linked you to the website of the well reputed Princeton University stating the definition you claimed was invalid as valid. Just because it also states your definition does not mean the definitions are mutually exclusive. Your original statement that discipline did not include physical violence is WRONG. You telling me that it is correct a third time will not refute my evidence. You're gonna have to try a new tactic. I suggest looking for sources other than your own testimony.
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Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.11.14 06:22:00 -
[25]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 14/11/2008 06:24:54
Edited by: MotherMoon on 14/11/2008 06:22:54
Originally by: Crimsonjade
99.9% of these kids are better off. as anyone who would dump them is usually and id almost guarantee a pile of ****
This.
In the case of all of these parents you guys are right they would need to beat thier children to get them to listen. HOwever a real parent or child care taker (yes I take care of children) don't need violence and thus would never abandon thier children.
Go to your room? hah that one doesn't work at all. But that doesn't mean you have to take a belt to your kid.
At the same time some times it can be necessary, but not in the way you guys are talking. Just educate your kids, don't control them, help them amke thier own decisions. Unless it's a really big deal, or something really bad could happen, just letting your kids try something and getting hurt is better than using violence to teach them the same lesson. Let them learn like you or I learn now that we are adults but with a helping hand.
If I try something stupid, and I get hurt because of it, I'm not going to make that mistake again. I don't need someone to beat me after I get hurt to make it stick.
oh, imp the only time you need to lay down the law, which honestly I can't see included violence but just **** that ****es off kids, is school stuff.
Quote:
however, I know the benefit to using physical discipline to teach my nephews how to act when they've ignored all other warnings.
this I can agree with , but only if they aren't already embarrassed by how stupid what they just did was in the 1st place. Also using their peers to make fun of them works wonders too. Let their friends tell them what they are doing is stupid.
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.11.14 06:26:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Xrak
Edited by: Xrak on 14/11/2008 04:50:07
Originally by: Kravick Drasari
Edited by: Kravick Drasari on 14/11/2008 04:08:48
Originally by: Zyck
Originally by: Xrak
Because you don't sound like an angry, bitter person at all.
You'd be bitter too in his position. If you'll care to use your critical thinking skills you'll note it's not his own upbringing he's bitter about. It's the (lack of) one caused by these ridiculous "child abuse" laws.
This too.
I'd also like to add that if you are seen disciplining your child in public you can have child services called on you and you will be investigated for child abuse. Thats how bad it is.
I highly doubt that disciplining your child in public would cause someone to ring child services. Now maybe if you are using corporal punishment on them, yes.
Corporal punishment and discipline are not the same thing and are definitely not interchangeable.
You don't have to be a parent to have experience with children or know about their behaviour etc.
Edit: I am interested to see if the general consensus of the replies change as we leave NA tz and move more into EU tz. Sweden was the first country to ban physical punishment as long ago as 1979 and the USA is the only country, along with Somalia, which has failed to ratify a United Nations convention on children's rights.
You really have no idea what you just said. Look, in America we actually have police come into the class room and tell the kids that if "mom or dad lay a finger on you or each other we want you to call 9-1-1 right away so we can help them and you."
There are ads on TV that encourage people to report people they even suspect in the slightest that someone might struck their child.
I have known families where their kids actually have threatened to call the police and lie to them saying that their parents have struck them just because they werenĘt allowed to stay up late. There are many instances of when child services comes in on a tip and the way they act is as if the parents have already been found guilty and that they are here to remove the child.
Its that bad over here that I am honestly shocked to hear that the maternity ward still gets business.
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Kalahari Wayrest
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.11.14 06:33:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Kalahari Wayrest on 14/11/2008 06:35:07
Quote:
Your original statement that discipline did not include physical violence is WRONG.
where did he state that? 
I've read what he said through and all I can find is him saying they aren't the same thing and shouldn't be used interchangeably. (i.e there are more ways to discipline a child than physically, when you say you're going to discipline a child it doesn't neccesarily mean physically)
not the same as saying the definition isn't roomy enough to include it. 
It looks to me that you're both saying 'discipline' has multiple definitions...he's saying it's broad enough to not refer entirely to physical violence and is objecting to use it as such is invalid, and you're saying it's broad enough to umbrella physical violence as well and are objecting to it being excluded from that definition.
(And I really need to stop playing the 'where I think people on the internets are coming from' game >.< bicker amongst yourselves!)
__________________________
Indulge Me
Consider Yourself Indulged - Immy ♥
Wow immy scored  - Xorus
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Florio
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.11.14 07:25:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Xrak
A good parent is the one who doesn't need to use violence.
This.
You can bring up a child with excellent behaviour without violence against them of any sort, so any violence is unnecessary.
Yep, that means your parents who smack, or you if you're a parent who smacks, could do better.
A person does not come naturally equiped to be a good parent. They make mistakes and learn through experience. So read a frakkin' book on parenting and learn from other people's mistakes. Learn how to bring up a child without violence.
I am father to 3 kids.
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Corwain
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.11.14 07:28:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Corwain on 14/11/2008 07:34:23
Edited by: Corwain on 14/11/2008 07:28:55
Originally by: Kalahari Wayrest
Edited by: Kalahari Wayrest on 14/11/2008 06:35:07
Quote:
Your original statement that discipline did not include physical violence is WRONG.
where did he state that?
Originally by: Xrak
Discipline does NOT mean physical punishment.
Originally by: Kalahari Wayrest
I've read what he said through and all I can find is him saying they aren't the same thing and shouldn't be used interchangeably. (i.e there are more ways to discipline a child than physically, when you say you're going to discipline a child it doesn't neccesarily mean physically)
not the same as saying the definition isn't roomy enough to include it.
No, he's saying discipline is only the "to instruct a person or animal to follow a particular code of conduct, or to adhere to a certain 'order.'"
And he's saying that we should be using the word punishment to describe physical punishment.
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Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
Valan
The Fated
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Posted - 2008.11.14 08:26:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Valan on 14/11/2008 08:29:52
My parents gave me a slap across the backside when I needed it.
We grew up in a mining town in the 80s when there were no jobs. We've now both got Masters degrees and earn a very decent amount of money. My Dad was a steel worker and my mum a care assistant. When my Dad gave us a slap you felt it and despite him only coming home every other weekend he would always take us out hiking.
Your kids success is basically down to discipline and respect.
I even went to college with a drug dealer and never even touched drugs and I generally stayed away from trouble. It wasn't the coppers that bothered me it was the consequences I would endure when I got home.
You can say physical punishment isn't needed but without I wouldn't have taken the blindest bit of notice when I got older. Shouting at two brothers kicking 7 bells out of each other isn't going to cut it. Sending people to their room where all their stuff is doesn't help. If anyone has any good punishments feel free to shar them.
/start sig
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on.
/end sig |
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