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AccesiViale	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:36:00 - [31] Perhaps I should have specified what I used when I had no intention of discussing my chars fit. I use Jav Torps on bs and bc Everyhing else i pick up w/ light and medium drones, i carry both. I guess I just don't understand why the need for perpetual balancing exists. Some things are just good for some stuff, thats life, just like the adapt or die people seem to think that others should just "get over it". Others not so much. Is the goal to go around and around w/ the balance until every ship within the same class performs the same? Anyway im done here, you guys sure showed me...and for reference i didnt delete my charactors that would be stupid. Just frozen after the account expires so maybe later i can take them out of the freeze dried packaging when ccp finishes something noteworthy. Like i said previous as well, im quitting for many reasons, QR changes just tipped the scale.
Zitus	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:37:00 - [32] Hey dude, Im caldari and I use Missiles. Im not super old or anything, but i know for a fact that i dont have any skills in anything else. Regardless, Missiles aren't 100% suckage. And If you think they are, you can go ahead and cry because you obviously dont have the skills to use them correctally, in which you shouldnt have a hard time training for something new now. Quit Whinning. I dont. and looking at the passed couple of ninja postings ive done on the forums (lol cakes) you should be much more mature than me. Get over yourself?
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:39:00 - [33] So basicly you are saying that the specific ship you are flying should be the best ship? Get over yourself, ravens/golems still perform great.
AccesiViale	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:42:00 - [34] Originally by: Zitus Hey dude, Im caldari and I use Missiles. Im not super old or anything, but i know for a fact that i dont have any skills in anything else. Regardless, Missiles aren't 100% suckage. And If you think they are, you can go ahead and cry because you obviously dont have the skills to use them correctally, in which you shouldnt have a hard time training for something new now. Quit Whinning. I dont. and looking at the passed couple of ninja postings ive done on the forums (lol cakes) you should be much more mature than me. Get over yourself? your so right. i should "get over myself" as you say. lol... presenting an opinion of a game that i play and pay money for/ wish to see improve is such tom-foolery. now i see the light
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:43:00 - [35] Well it sounds like you've convinced yourself that EvE is awful, so thanks for wasting everyone's time by making us respond to someone who's simply not interested in anyone disagreeing with him. To explicitly answer your question: yes I think eve's skill structure lends itself extremely well to changes like this, since every character can train for any ship or module, and be reasonably competent in it within a few weeks or a couple of months at most. It doesn't lend itself well at all to people who insist on being hyperspecialised into a single fit on a single ship and never changing anything. You're simply not prepared to be "OK" in another ship while you train up. You only want to play if you can be "perfect". But the game is trying to attain that perfection, not carrying on in a sterile, repetitive manner once you've reached it. That playstyle will always be utterly vulnerable to patches, and you will always be disappointed because EvE must continually evolve if it is not to become stale and die. And be truthful with us and yourself: the CNR has had a long, long run of being the optimal, easy-mode mission ship. It really has. It's not like it was introduced 6 months ago, and then suddenly it's nerfed. It's been "the winner" since it was introduced. I have two CNRs, and hell yes they were effective for semi-AFK level 4s, making 20-25M/hr while I forum-*****d, or watched southpark on youtube or whatever. But GOD it was boring. Boring, boring, boring. Well rejoice: you're out of that boring game. You can play a fun one now, whether in EvE or elsewhere.
AccesiViale	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:47:00 - [36] Edited by: AccesiViale on 14/11/2008 11:48:44 does it make any sense to change? i can see if a new ship came out that was better...thats how the world works...specing into the raven would have been dumb then. But just changing **** around on a whim is like nVidia releasing new drivers that make 280's less powerful because...well just because. Why was this done? I liked running missions and trading, i was not bored. When new stuff comes out it makes old obsolete, i get that, but how do you plan for "just because".
uzumoreru	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:50:00 - [37] Originally by: AccesiViale Edited by: AccesiViale on 14/11/2008 11:48:44 does it make any sense to change? i can see if a new ship came out that was better...thats how the world works...specing into the raven would have been dumb then. But just changing **** around on a whim is like nVidia releasing new drivers that make 280's less powerful because...well just because. Why was this done? I liked running missions and trading, i was not bored. When new stuff comes out it makes old obsolete, i get that, but how do you plan for "just because". Balance dear boy, balance.
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:53:00 - [38] Uhm, the mechanics of EVE lend themselves to nerfing and buffing better than other MMOs. If you've got some diversification in your skills, a horrible game-destroying nerf to one ship or even one faction is pretty much solvable by swapping ships _____________________ My opinions plus a tablespoon of water may be substituted for your own.
AccesiViale	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:55:00 - [39] lol...so i guess i should buy a 280, 260, 9800, and an 8800 so i can be covered for when each ones drivers are docked down a little bit.
Rexthor Hammerfists Rage of Inferno	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:55:00 - [40] Your misfortune is that ccp balances ships around pvp and not pve, which is a good thing. The raven just become mroe difficult to solo lvl4s with, but without the changes missiles wouldve just been to good in pvp, thats why it got changed. Many ppl on this forum posted how you can still get close to your prepatch performance in missions with the raven, its just up to you to take the effort and get your head around it. If ppl stop a second mourning their fotm setups they could see the numerous more and new strategies that have become available with this patch. Qr added alot more variety to pvp, thats why my patchface is a happy face ;) - Boosters and PirateProfessions
AccesiViale	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:01:00 - [41] that really is my misfortune, because all i really wanted in eve was to make a trillion isk as fast as possible and spend it on nothing. really, thats what i found fun...is making my account balance higher. and their pvp balancing is making things a bit more difficult for me. I trade, mission, and sling mud...thats why lack of new features and content like station walking matter so much to me. I just want to make all the isk in the whole universe...and then talk and trade in some hub... plus im broke, another reason the accounts are going. trust me hating the game changes or not i would continue training so i could seethe out of game until the training was done
myrddhyn	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:02:00 - [42] yes i think this game lends itself well to the nerf/buff/patch cycle. My main does missions in a cnr so i got 'hit' too. But tbh it's only a problem if you're a low sp character. And far too many new players jumped to caldari just to get 'easy' acces to lvl 4's. So they kinda fixed that whilst nerfing the nano's heavily. Every patch will make people cry but the longer you play the less effect certain 'nerfs' will have on you. Your uber fitting will be less effective but if you spend your time wisely you already have a backup ship. If you quit over this then it's your loss. But then again as someone said if you're not having fun and this game is causing you sleepless nights it's time to go do something else.
Valan The Fated	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:13:00 - [43] Edited by: Valan on 14/11/2008 12:14:41 Ok here is the nub of the issue we tell noobs they can compete with vets by specialising which is a valid comment especially considering the amount of skills now required. So what do they do they specialise for a good set up now they don't predict what will happen in the future. So CCP nerf soemthing heavily and the specialisation arguement goes out the window as the counter to a severe nerf is to diversify. The bit I really like is all the bears moan about war des and suicide ganking and CCP back track the harsh reality statement and nerf high sec piracy. So the bears are happy and CCP is happy because uber bears aren't quitting. They then implement a major nerf and lose the uber bears anyway. The speed nerf was introduced because they were a pain to catch now all ships are a pain to catch because you can tank all the way to the gate. Anyway none of it applies to me so lol EDIT and BTW I bet you all love the new certs so you can see exactly how many skills you've wasted rofl.
Cletus Graeme Caldari COLD-Wing	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:16:00 - [44] Originally by: AccesiViale Ive already cancelled both accounts. No you cant "haz my stuff" I'll be playing better games until the next patch and then I'll re-evaluate. Good riddens! Don't let the door hit you on the way out. EvE is better for this loss tbh. Whiners = EPIC FAIL
AccesiViale	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:20:00 - [45] Edited by: AccesiViale on 14/11/2008 12:21:04 lol, yea certs were the biggest croc of **** ever. If i want to know about what time ive wasted, id open up evemon. didnt you hear, im only quitting because ill never be as cool as you gg to me though cuz nothing is gonna change... ccp's hair is a bird and my argument is invalid
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:23:00 - [46] Originally by: Valan Edited by: Valan on 14/11/2008 12:14:41 Ok here is the nub of the issue we tell noobs they can compete with vets by specialising which is a valid comment especially considering the amount of skills now required. . Specialising, yes. Putting years into hyper-specialising into a single fit on a single ship, no. Again, it's not like the CNR hasn't been the last word in general missioning running for years. Years. Pre-patch, you could be perfectly competent in a CNR, able to run every mission without warpouts in less than 6 months. The OP has had far more than enough time to diversify his skillset. There have been multiple changes in various ships and weapon types since he started playing, and it's not like the missile changes were kept as any kind of secret. I saw which way the wind was blowing and started preparing back in July.
Taliph Stillwood	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:26:00 - [47] I'm starting to wonder what is a worse read... emoragequit posts, or emorageicantreadsoi'lljustflamewhatithoughtthetopicwas posts
Valan The Fated	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:27:00 - [48] Edited by: Valan on 14/11/2008 12:36:49 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Valan Edited by: Valan on 14/11/2008 12:14:41 Ok here is the nub of the issue we tell noobs they can compete with vets by specialising which is a valid comment especially considering the amount of skills now required. . Specialising, yes. Putting years into hyper-specialising into a single fit on a single ship, no. Again, it's not like the CNR hasn't been the last word in general missioning running for years. Years. Pre-patch, you could be perfectly competent in a CNR, able to run every mission without warpouts in less than 6 months. The OP has had far more than enough time to diversify his skillset. There have been multiple changes in various ships and weapon types since he started playing, and it's not like the missile changes were kept as any kind of secret. I saw which way the wind was blowing and started preparing back in July. I agree to a point old hands can see and predict whats going to happen and diversify. But the less canny and the new probably didn't know what they're letting themselves in for. When I started I trained generic skills heavily. Then started on specifics that way every ship I flew was useful. But I was always secondary to the ftom specialist. EDIT : Although I'm of the opinion missiles did less damage (apart from torps) than guns anyway so that offset the always hit issue. This nerf is basically to do with there are too many Caldari and not enough Amarr which is messing with the factional warfare story line. Hence when the box goes on sale you'll get more Amarr now. This isn't the first time CCP has mesed with game play to change the dynamics of the player base. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
AccesiViale	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:30:00 - [49] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Valan Edited by: Valan on 14/11/2008 12:14:41 Ok here is the nub of the issue we tell noobs they can compete with vets by specialising which is a valid comment especially considering the amount of skills now required. . Specialising, yes. Putting years into hyper-specialising into a single fit on a single ship, no. Again, it's not like the CNR hasn't been the last word in general missioning running for years. Years. Pre-patch, you could be perfectly competent in a CNR, able to run every mission without warpouts in less than 6 months. The OP has had far more than enough time to diversify his skillset. There have been multiple changes in various ships and weapon types since he started playing, and it's not like the missile changes were kept as any kind of secret. I saw which way the wind was blowing and started preparing back in July. this is true, i could have prepared had i been paying more attention to eve (was busy getting my masters in cs) and now im pretty much to broke to play anyway ty for all the input, both the hilariously stupid and the valid points, as there was both. i do feel better about qr if that is any consolation for those of you who went through and replied
ramzahn Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:31:00 - [50] Originally by: AccesiViale Hence, me asking if i was the only one who feels this way in a general discussion forum. I share your opinion but couldn't express it so well. Changing the rules of this game is completely divergent to having skill trees that take years to complete. Eve's skill system is unique. And because of that system you can not change the game as casually as any other game.
Volarius Digital assassins G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:33:00 - [51] I haven't read your post. I saw your threads subject, clicked the second page and clicked reply instantly. And without ever reading your post or any of the replies I can tell you: Yes, you are the only one.
Herring Caldari Incessant Onslaught	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:35:00 - [52] Yes, the OP has a point. Although he's been flamed to hell and back, there's no doubt that the continual nerf cycle does not many a happy player make. There's no doubt we've wasted our time training for skills, or races that no longer work very well. It'd be different if skills weren't so time intensive. But they are, so I can empathize. I too feel like my time has been wasted, and I don't like it. And I'm somewhat of a diversified player. It's just a question of are you still having enough fun to pay for it, or are you not. I still am. But every time they radically change game mechanics, and waste another chunk of my training time, I move a little bit closer to that same fence. It's just not enjoyable. So cut the guy some slack. He's got a point.
Taliph Stillwood	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:37:00 - [53] Quote: So cut the guy some slack. He's got a point. Quoted for great glorious truth.
AccesiViale	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:39:00 - [54] Originally by: ramzahn Originally by: AccesiViale Hence, me asking if i was the only one who feels this way in a general discussion forum. I share your opinion but couldn't express it so well. Changing the rules of this game is completely divergent to having skill trees that take years to complete. Eve's skill system is unique. And because of that system you can not change the game as casually as any other game. lol, thanks. i could have used the support before the flames/ rick rolls/ and adapt or die posts. I feel better about it now as there is only so long you can argue about something that wont change before you dont care anymore. It doesnt matter for me anymore anyway because im broke and cannot sustain two accounts, nor do i much want to. Ill be back...its just to bad i cant ghost train while im gone now either.
Melthariumin	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:41:00 - [55] I dont understand all the whining about "teh great missile nerf". The Raven is compared to average rail-/gunboats still better for running lvl 4's. Just try to hit an orbiting tacklerfrig with a bs-sized railgun and then try it with a cruise missile and you see the difference. You dont do much damage with a cm anymore but you do NO damage with the rail(regardless of gunnery-SP ). And for missions where it's risky to use drones this li'l cm damage makes a huge difference. oh and.. can i haz your...?
AccesiViale	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:44:00 - [56] Originally by: Melthariumin I dont understand all the whining about "teh great missile nerf". The Raven is compared to average rail-/gunboats still better for running lvl 4's. Just try to hit an orbiting tacklerfrig with a bs-sized railgun and then try it with a cruise missile and you see the difference. You dont do much damage with a cm anymore but you do NO damage with the rail(regardless of gunnery-SP ). And for missions where it's risky to use drones this li'l cm damage makes a huge difference. oh and.. can i haz your...? lol...ill be hazing my own stuff as soon as i get a job and renew my subscription. so one day when i haz all the sp and nerfs no longer effect me i can laugh and flame and tell people to adapt or die.
ramzahn Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:51:00 - [57] Originally by: Herring I too feel like my time has been wasted,... You do realize that spending your time inside a computer game is wasted time anyway. Or do you not?
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:51:00 - [58] Originally by: AccesiViale Originally by: Melthariumin I dont understand all the whining about "teh great missile nerf". The Raven is compared to average rail-/gunboats still better for running lvl 4's. Just try to hit an orbiting tacklerfrig with a bs-sized railgun and then try it with a cruise missile and you see the difference. You dont do much damage with a cm anymore but you do NO damage with the rail(regardless of gunnery-SP ). And for missions where it's risky to use drones this li'l cm damage makes a huge difference. oh and.. can i haz your...? lol...ill be hazing my own stuff as soon as i get a job and renew my subscription. so one day when i haz all the sp and nerfs no longer effect me i can laugh and flame and tell people to adapt or die. That's the spirit!
AccesiViale	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:54:00 - [59] Edited by: AccesiViale on 14/11/2008 12:55:08 Originally by: ramzahn Originally by: Herring I too feel like my time has been wasted,... You do realize that spending your time inside a computer game is wasted time anyway. Or do you not? i guess my time has been double wasted then. I thought i was wasting it one way, but the way in which i was wasting it was ****d. So yea...double. lol
Tellnan Matkiel Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:56:00 - [60] The skill system is wonderful, because it is reasonably easy to adapt and adjust to changing game mechanics. Far easier than other MMOs as far as I can tell.

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