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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:13:00 -
[1]
That thinks that the mechanics of eve do not lend itself to the nerf/buff mmo cycle well? This game takes hours/days/weeks of learning and planning and testing to learn to do certain things well and to get skills in line to do them efficiently. For those who say adapt or die, I just don't see the logic. To adapt will require that I learn and train something else other than missles, by the time that is complete, the next trash patch will be out and ruin what it is I just spent six months trying to perfect. I would have no complaints if I could "re-roll" a new char to max skills in some area in a few days with some hard work. However, nothing I can do can make "adaptation" in this game any faster. All I can do is start from scratch learning a new skill tree and hand ccp more money. The only saving grace I thought of the missle changes would be the Jav Torps getting 50% more range and losing 10% damage. However that isnt in place either as no changes were made leading me to believe its a bug with the patch or simply ccp misrepresenting a current mechanic as a new "change".
Ive already cancelled both accounts.
No you cant "haz my stuff"
I'll be playing better games until the next patch and then I'll re-evaluate.
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Kransthow
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:14:00 -
[2]
adapt or die, can I have your stuff and first
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:15:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: AccesiViale
That thinks that the mechanics of eve do not lend itself to the nerf/buff mmo cycle well? This game takes hours/days/weeks of learning and planning and testing to learn to do certain things well and to get skills in line to do them efficiently. For those who say adapt or die, I just don't see the logic. To adapt will require that I learn and train something else other than missles, by the time that is complete, the next trash patch will be out and ruin what it is I just spent six months trying to perfect. I would have no complaints if I could "re-roll" a new char to max skills in some area in a few days with some hard work. However, nothing I can do can make "adaptation" in this game any faster. All I can do is start from scratch learning a new skill tree and hand ccp more money. The only saving grace I thought of the missle changes would be the Jav Torps getting 50% more range and losing 10% damage. However that isnt in place either as no changes were made leading me to believe its a bug with the patch or simply ccp misrepresenting a current mechanic as a new "change".
Ive already cancelled both accounts.
No you cant "haz my stuff"
I'll be playing better games until the next patch and then I'll re-evaluate.
/me wonders why people cancel their accounts then asks if things are right? If we all say all is fine would you re-subscribe?
Secure 3rd party service ■ Veldspar |
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:20:00 -
[4]
because i have less than a month on my sub left, i cant be curious as to how the other people feel about this? Of course none of you have any influence on how im spending my money and time. Hence, me asking if i was the only one who feels this way in a general discussion forum.
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Mat rix
Caldari
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:20:00 -
[5]
I thought this was appropriate
Quote:
never gonna give you up,
Never gonna let you down,
Never gonna run around and desert you,
Never gonna make you cry,
Never gonna say goodbye,
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you
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Lana Lanee
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:22:00 -
[6]
adapt or die
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Chienka
Viziam
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:23:00 -
[7]
Let me guess, another bitter nano/carebear pilot (This encompasses everyone in EVE?) bitter about recent changes and can't handle adapting.
[] Adapt
[X] Die
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:23:00 -
[8]
i used to think that eve players were a bit smarter then those of other mmo's. i stand corrected...gg to me i guess
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Karille
Gallente
Lordless
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:39:00 -
[9]
Originally by: AccesiViale
To adapt will require that I learn and train something else other than missles, by the time that is complete, the next trash patch will be out and ruin what it is I just spent six months trying to perfect.
Guess what. Once you train both missiles and something else you'll have two options. After that if you train something else you'll have three options. I assume you can see where I'm going with this. You don't need every skill at level 5 to be good. You nerfed yourself with your lack of options. I used to fly a nos domi. When nos changed, I changed. Then I flew an ishkur with medium drones. When bandwidth changed, I changed. So you're stuck learning something instead of missiles? At least you CAN learn something else. How many times have you seen a priest respec into a ranger? (Guild wars doesn't count!)
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: AccesiViale
i used to think that eve players were a bit smarter then those of other mmo's. i stand corrected...gg to me i guess
Well you're the one who's quitting 2 days after a patch that's encouraging you to learn new fits and tactics. Jesus man, the hypocrisy.
There will be new optimal fits, there will be ways for smart players to use their ships, modules & skills to overwhelming advantage, there will be tears from those unable or just plain unwilling to adapt.
Man up and find them, for God's sake. It's fun. It's what the game is about: challenge, winning, losing, discovery, success, failure, go and god damb play the game. And then send a nice thank you note to the devs for prying you out of your cosy, cramped, stale little comfort zone.
Or run off crying. Whatever.
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:56:00 -
[11]
While I will agree that my situation could have been partially avoided by diversifing early on, certainly you can agree that cycling like this in a game where progress takes so much time is certainly less than productive. Its like...the only way to not get screwed is to have all the skill points. Then you can say adapt or die because the choice is simple. For example, i just spent almost a month training caldari bs 5, finishes in 2 days. Thats a whole month and 14$ that was needlessly wasted. Time is everyones most valuable resource, and ccp is squandering ours, as well as their own. All of the mechanics were fine pre-qr. As a caldari spec player in gallente space engaged in FW (which also sucks) it just seems like anything else would have been a better use of everyones time and certainly my money. Like...where is the storefronts and product branding talked about for QR in the dev interview....oh pushed back...because it would have been cool. No, instead we want to focus on whats ok already. Certs are a joke, align top w/ the hud, and the drone window staying put....lol. c'mon really. seriously a joke like gw bush's presidency. Maybe hes a dev at ccp. Everything was fine in america, then him, everything fine in eve then ccp...hmmm
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:58:00 -
[12]
Edited by: AccesiViale on 14/11/2008 10:05:43
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: AccesiViale
i used to think that eve players were a bit smarter then those of other mmo's. i stand corrected...gg to me i guess
Well you're the one who's quitting 2 days after a patch that's encouraging you to learn new fits and tactics. Jesus man, the hypocrisy.
lol... im pretty sure i made the smart move...my money is in my pocket until i'm confident im spending it in the right place.
anyway i suppose ive gotten my answer to the question of this post anyway. I must be the only one then. Suppose I might see you all next patch/expansion...its been a real pleasure
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Kransthow
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:59:00 -
[13]
umm
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:02:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Malcanis on 14/11/2008 10:03:09
Originally by: AccesiViale
While I will agree that my situation could have been partially avoided by diversifing early on, certainly you can agree that cycling like this in a game where progress takes so much time is certainly less than productive. Its like...the only way to not get screwed is to have all the skill points. Then you can say adapt or die because the choice is simple. For example, i just spent almost a month training caldari bs 5, finishes in 2 days. Thats a whole month and 14$ that was needlessly wasted. Time is everyones most valuable resource, and ccp is squandering ours, as well as their own. All of the mechanics were fine pre-qr. As a caldari spec player in gallente space engaged in FW (which also sucks) it just seems like anything else would have been a better use of everyones time and certainly my money. Like...where is the storefronts and product branding talked about for QR in the dev interview....oh pushed back...because it would have been cool. No, instead we want to focus on whats ok already. Certs are a joke, align top w/ the hud, and the drone window staying put....lol. c'mon really. seriously a joke like gw bush's presidency. Maybe hes a dev at ccp. Everything was fine in america, then him, everything fine in eve then ccp...hmmm
You have Caldari BS V? Nice. Your Rokhs and Scorpions will be pretty sweet.
And hey, even your Ravens too if you fly 'em right.
Hint: look at your drone bandwidth. Hey now, there are some possibilities there...
Hint: Caldari ships are all meant to be flown as part of balanced gangs, and they're still unmatchable when this is done properly. Got any friends who fly Hyenas, Huginns or Rapiers?
EDIT: and if you actually didn't do anything while BS V was training, so that you really did get no value out of your $14, then more fool you tbh.
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Solasta Kovacs
Total Mayhem.
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:03:00 -
[15]
The point is that adapting to these changes does not neccessarily require you to retrain and stop using missiles...
Hint: work out how to use them in the new context.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:07:00 -
[16]
Originally by: AccesiViale
i used to think that eve players were a bit smarter then those of other mmo's. i stand corrected...gg to me i guess
Give us a break, this is the 90th thread on the same thing.
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:13:00 -
[17]
if you put on your thinking cap and read the first sentence you will see that is not the 90th thread on the same thing. The primary question being, do you or do you not think eve lends itself well to the nerf/buff cycle that most mmos seem to have.
And to those above id prefer not to remove any of my tank for painters or the ability to stay out of range...and im also quite a bit slower now too, which is great. You guys dont have to "talk me into it." i've evaluated my options on what i could do to adapt as a primarily solo carebear running 4s. I just dont see the raven as a good choice anymore for that purpose...and the rokh might be great.....if i had any skills....in ... gunnery...
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Lana Lanee
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:15:00 -
[18]
Originally by: AccesiViale
if you put on your thinking cap and read the first sentence you will see that is not the 90th thread on the same thing. The primary question being, do you or do you not think eve lends itself well to the nerf/buff cycle that most mmos seem to have.
And to those above id prefer not to remove any of my tank for painters or the ability to stay out of range...and im also quite a bit slower now too, which is great. You guys dont have to "talk me into it." i've evaluated my options on what i could do to adapt as a primarily solo carebear running 4s. I just dont see the raven as a good choice anymore for that purpose...and the rokh might be great.....if i had any skills....in ... gunnery...
adapt or d..
...
oh..
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:18:00 -
[19]
Originally by: AccesiViale
if you put on your thinking cap and read the first sentence you will see that is not the 90th thread on the same thing. The primary question being, do you or do you not think eve lends itself well to the nerf/buff cycle that most mmos seem to have.
And to those above id prefer not to remove any of my tank for painters or the ability to stay out of range...and im also quite a bit slower now too, which is great. You guys dont have to "talk me into it." i've evaluated my options on what i could do to adapt as a primarily solo carebear running 4s. I just dont see the raven as a good choice anymore for that purpose...and the rokh might be great.....if i had any skills....in ... gunnery...
in that case stop talking about the nerf itself and maybe people would discuss your point.
also just get some small drones, your tank should be fine just look up the NPC damage type before hand and fit only 2 resistance amps for those dmg types. then fit a painter. Train up some drone tracking skills and get minmatar medium tech 2 drones (they track better right?) Now your large missles with the painter will chew through bigger ships and your medium drones wll eat frigates. bring some light drones just in case.
sentries might be a good idea too.
another idea would be webbing drones. send them out web a target at long range, paint him, and take him out.
oh wait what did you want this thread to be about?
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:22:00 -
[20]
Edited by: AccesiViale on 14/11/2008 10:23:51
i only started to discuss particular problems im dealing w/ for this patch in general when the first 5 replies i got were flames, rick rolls, and spam. The question remains yet no one answers...18 replies later.
i will concede that this thread has digressed quite a bit as i am leaving eve for many reasons both gameplay and non-gameplay related. Do i dislike QR, yea, but I was already on the fence.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:24:00 -
[21]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 14/11/2008 10:25:14
Quote:
I just spent six months trying to perfect. I would have no complaints if I could "re-roll" a new char to max skills in some area in a few days with some hard work. However, nothing I can do can make "adaptation" in this game any faster. All I can do is start from scratch learning a new skill tree and hand ccp more money. The only saving grace I thought of the missle changes would be the Jav Torps getting 50% more range and losing 10% damage. However that isnt in place either as no changes were made leading me to believe its a bug with the patch or simply ccp misrepresenting a current mechanic as a new "change". Ive already cancelled both accounts.
no offense but this has the vibe of "whine whine whine"
you should of kept yourself out of the subject.
Also saying you allready quit pretty much made everyone just glaze over.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:24:00 -
[22]
Originally by: AccesiViale
if you put on your thinking cap and read the first sentence you will see that is not the 90th thread on the same thing. The primary question being, do you or do you not think eve lends itself well to the nerf/buff cycle that most mmos seem to have.
And to those above id prefer not to remove any of my tank for painters or the ability to stay out of range...and im also quite a bit slower now too, which is great. You guys dont have to "talk me into it." i've evaluated my options on what i could do to adapt as a primarily solo carebear running 4s. I just dont see the raven as a good choice anymore for that purpose...and the rokh might be great.....if i had any skills....in ... gunnery...
Start training, then. When you can use turrets, drones and launchers you'll be nerfproof. You don't need T2 guns for missions - gauss prototypes or even DG/Serp rails are pretty easy to train for. Get your gunnery supports up to 4, train large hybrids 4, and you're off.
Meanwhile maybe consider not running level 4s solo if you're truly finding them difficult.
Seriously, I'm finding great difficulty in sympathising with your implicit assertion that you should be allowed to endlessly, risklessly, mindlessly run level 4 missions in exactly the same way with exactly the same fit, bar the occasional upgrade to faction/deadspace/officer mods. I've seen some other posters suggest that this is the start of CCP nerfing level 4 missions, which is a long, long, long overdue change.
PS You have tried Precision Cruise, right?
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:32:00 -
[23]
its only riskless and mindless because i spent a year and a half training the needed skills to make it so. My adaptation will be to train the newly needed skills to make it possible again. I dont know why its such a problem that i be "allowed" to abide by the rules of the game and run missions how i please and have spent so much time/effort/training/money(all the same i guess) on.
And besides...again...not the point of the topic. Nobody wants to acknoledge that the only way to not get screwed with a nerf cycle is to have been playing for long enough to have comprehensive skills in most areas?
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LordSwift
INTERSTELLAR ENTERPRISE
StarFleet Federation
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:45:00 -
[24]
Dont know about you. But i think this killmail proves that missiles are still awesome and worthwhile to train up.
Linkage
Get over it. I think it might be a good idea you do take a break. You dont seem to be enjoying the game and only logging in to train a skill. (Ive done it before)
Find something else to do other than missions. I recently moved with my alliance down to 0.0 and i am having a great time.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:50:00 -
[25]
If you just train for turrets and get a rokh, you will understand one thing very fast. Raven is still a very good mission runner. I dont got perfect missile skills and i barely do missions slower since quantum rise, some missions can even be done faster.
I also got a navy megathron, faction fitted (my cnr is t2/best named), it is way slower than a CNR for most missions, even after quantum rise.
Why do you only want to have the best? You dont give a crap if it is balanced or not, because then you would know that if you want it balanced for pve ravens would need another nerf (together with amarr BS and domi probably). Raven is still better than all non amarr turret BS.
You say your raven is useless now, which ship do you want instead?
Minmatar BS? LOL
Gallente turret BS? LOL
Dominix? A decent replacement, with some fittings faster than raven, but not much better.
Amarr BS? Great against blood raiders and sanshas, against everything else raven is better.
Rokh/Scorpion? LOL
So in general the only BS that might now be better than raven in general is the dominix, but you could allready say that before quantum rise since ravens for missions are barely affected.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.14 11:10:00 -
[26]
Originally by: AccesiViale
its only riskless and mindless because i spent a year and a half training the needed skills to make it so. My adaptation will be to train the newly needed skills to make it possible again. I dont know why its such a problem that i be "allowed" to abide by the rules of the game and run missions how i please and have spent so much time/effort/training/money(all the same i guess) on.
And besides...again...not the point of the topic. Nobody wants to acknoledge that the only way to not get screwed with a nerf cycle is to have been playing for long enough to have comprehensive skills in most areas?
But you said it yourself: it is riskless and mindless. So what were you wanting? to finish cruise spec V and then run exactly the same missions in exactly the same way for ever and ever, amen? God, no wonder you said you were already leaving EvE. You were paying $14/mo to essentially be a macro.
Seriously, by your description, you had already won EvE. You had pretty much perfect skills for the optimal ship with it's optimal fit. And you're ready to play a new game.
So: pretend you've biomassed your character and quit EvE, and you're starting a new space MMO. Except that you're starting with great stats, lots of cash and assets, and loads of more or less applicable support skills. Do something completely different. Become a pirate, or a han solo-style rogue blockade runner in NPC 0.0 (BRs are awesome now btw), or join a merc corp or FW or get into exploration. Seriously, instead of just reflexively saying I DUN WANNA, give 'em a try. You clearly 'dun wanna' carry on missioning either, so what the eff have you got to lose?
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 11:22:00 -
[27]
*sigh* since nobody seems to be able to read the first sentence of this thread and answer that question and also seem to want to persist in trying to change this to another thread about telling an ailing raven pilot should do to his fit to make it better. I think its safe to say we can let this thread die. Im not talking all about QR but nerf/buff cycling in general. The game was fine before the patch. QR is an "expansion" that expands nothing. Wouldnt we like to see actual progress made on all the other lofty ideas ccp has put forth? Like i said previous, i dont like the changes but i also dont require input on why i should. Nit picking game mechanics for eternity is total suck when cool **** like walking in stations, storefronts, all that **** sees no progress. ESPECIALLY for an expansion. The only thing "new" is the orca and the stargates.
So in short I think this game does not lend itself well to the cycle, not only does it cycle the players that are ****ed about something, it takes our money, wastes our time, and distracts us from the new things we actually want or the stuff that is really broken. For god sakes, the game has no native AA setting... its 2009 and the client is leaking and their nerfing **** that wasnt broken. Then, im sure they will release mini patches based on the feedback they are receiving now, ... more wasted time and effort by everybody. We all could be saying thanks for the cool storefronts you promised for this patch instead of fighting the merits of playstyles and how we each have chosen to train thus far. If anything we should be uniting to kill each other in game...or make **** for others to kill with. Instead thousands of us are in here...complaining about something, or complaining that others are complaining about something.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.11.14 11:25:00 -
[28]
Adapting does not mean training for the new FoTM.
That is not adaptation as you have not changed your basic strategy.
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DesuSigs |
Furb Killer
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.14 11:25:00 -
[29]
FYI, raven was broken for missions, it was way better than most other battleships for missions, some could outperform it against certain opponents, but in general raven was just the best.
And when you make a nice rant, and then put somewhere in your rant: "this topic is about bunnies", doesnt mean this topic is about bunnies.
This is just a whine topic by someone who insists on using cruise missiles against frigates, adapt or die.
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Captator
Universal Securities
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Posted - 2008.11.14 11:30:00 -
[30]
I don't understand why people who limit themselves to training along one narrow path complain when that path is made less useful. If you specialise in a field, there will come a point where anything more is training spec 5 or something. At this point, you just start cross-training, and you will find that it takes very little time to cross-train for a race.
I cross-trained over to minmatar from amarr in 2 months, and can now fly all of their t2 ships upto command ship proficiently (just got to get med arty and hml spec to completely t2 fit them).
You can also do it the other way, which is train everything at start, and then just spec in what you enjoy, completely illogical to train what you enjoy rather than what is best isn't it...
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 11:36:00 -
[31]
Perhaps I should have specified what I used when I had no intention of discussing my chars fit.
I use Jav Torps on bs and bc
Everyhing else i pick up w/ light and medium drones, i carry both.
I guess I just don't understand why the need for perpetual balancing exists. Some things are just good for some stuff, thats life, just like the adapt or die people seem to think that others should just "get over it". Others not so much. Is the goal to go around and around w/ the balance until every ship within the same class performs the same?
Anyway im done here, you guys sure showed me...and for reference i didnt delete my charactors that would be stupid. Just frozen after the account expires so maybe later i can take them out of the freeze dried packaging when ccp finishes something noteworthy. Like i said previous as well, im quitting for many reasons, QR changes just tipped the scale.
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Zitus
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Posted - 2008.11.14 11:37:00 -
[32]
Hey dude, Im caldari and I use Missiles. Im not super old or anything, but i know for a fact that i dont have any skills in anything else. Regardless, Missiles aren't 100% suckage. And If you think they are, you can go ahead and cry because you obviously dont have the skills to use them correctally, in which you shouldnt have a hard time training for something new now.
Quit Whinning. I dont. and looking at the passed couple of ninja postings ive done on the forums (lol cakes) you should be much more mature than me. Get over yourself?
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Furb Killer
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.14 11:39:00 -
[33]
So basicly you are saying that the specific ship you are flying should be the best ship?
Get over yourself, ravens/golems still perform great.
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 11:42:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Zitus
Hey dude, Im caldari and I use Missiles. Im not super old or anything, but i know for a fact that i dont have any skills in anything else. Regardless, Missiles aren't 100% suckage. And If you think they are, you can go ahead and cry because you obviously dont have the skills to use them correctally, in which you shouldnt have a hard time training for something new now.
Quit Whinning. I dont. and looking at the passed couple of ninja postings ive done on the forums (lol cakes) you should be much more mature than me. Get over yourself?
your so right. i should "get over myself" as you say. lol... presenting an opinion of a game that i play and pay money for/ wish to see improve is such tom-foolery. now i see the light
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.14 11:43:00 -
[35]
Well it sounds like you've convinced yourself that EvE is awful, so thanks for wasting everyone's time by making us respond to someone who's simply not interested in anyone disagreeing with him.
To explicitly answer your question: yes I think eve's skill structure lends itself extremely well to changes like this, since every character can train for any ship or module, and be reasonably competent in it within a few weeks or a couple of months at most.
It doesn't lend itself well at all to people who insist on being hyperspecialised into a single fit on a single ship and never changing anything.
You're simply not prepared to be "OK" in another ship while you train up. You only want to play if you can be "perfect". But the game is trying to attain that perfection, not carrying on in a sterile, repetitive manner once you've reached it. That playstyle will always be utterly vulnerable to patches, and you will always be disappointed because EvE must continually evolve if it is not to become stale and die. And be truthful with us and yourself: the CNR has had a long, long run of being the optimal, easy-mode mission ship. It really has. It's not like it was introduced 6 months ago, and then suddenly it's nerfed. It's been "the winner" since it was introduced. I have two CNRs, and hell yes they were effective for semi-AFK level 4s, making 20-25M/hr while I forum-*****d, or watched southpark on youtube or whatever. But GOD it was boring. Boring, boring, boring.
Well rejoice: you're out of that boring game. You can play a fun one now, whether in EvE or elsewhere.
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 11:47:00 -
[36]
Edited by: AccesiViale on 14/11/2008 11:48:44
does it make any sense to change? i can see if a new ship came out that was better...thats how the world works...specing into the raven would have been dumb then. But just changing **** around on a whim is like nVidia releasing new drivers that make 280's less powerful because...well just because. Why was this done? I liked running missions and trading, i was not bored. When new stuff comes out it makes old obsolete, i get that, but how do you plan for "just because".
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uzumoreru
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Posted - 2008.11.14 11:50:00 -
[37]
Originally by: AccesiViale
Edited by: AccesiViale on 14/11/2008 11:48:44
does it make any sense to change? i can see if a new ship came out that was better...thats how the world works...specing into the raven would have been dumb then. But just changing **** around on a whim is like nVidia releasing new drivers that make 280's less powerful because...well just because. Why was this done? I liked running missions and trading, i was not bored. When new stuff comes out it makes old obsolete, i get that, but how do you plan for "just because".
Balance dear boy, balance.
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2008.11.14 11:53:00 -
[38]
Uhm, the mechanics of EVE lend themselves to nerfing and buffing better than other MMOs. If you've got some diversification in your skills, a horrible game-destroying nerf to one ship or even one faction is pretty much solvable by swapping ships
_____________________
My opinions plus a tablespoon of water may be substituted for your own. |
AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 11:55:00 -
[39]
lol...so i guess i should buy a 280, 260, 9800, and an 8800 so i can be covered for when each ones drivers are docked down a little bit.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2008.11.14 11:55:00 -
[40]
Your misfortune is that ccp balances ships around pvp and not pve, which is a good thing.
The raven just become mroe difficult to solo lvl4s with, but without the changes missiles wouldve just been to good in pvp, thats why it got changed.
Many ppl on this forum posted how you can still get close to your prepatch performance in missions with the raven, its just up to you to take the effort and get your head around it.
If ppl stop a second mourning their fotm setups they could see the numerous more and new strategies that have become available with this patch.
Qr added alot more variety to pvp, thats why my patchface is a happy face ;)
-
Boosters and PirateProfessions
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 12:01:00 -
[41]
that really is my misfortune, because all i really wanted in eve was to make a trillion isk as fast as possible and spend it on nothing. really, thats what i found fun...is making my account balance higher. and their pvp balancing is making things a bit more difficult for me. I trade, mission, and sling mud...thats why lack of new features and content like station walking matter so much to me. I just want to make all the isk in the whole universe...and then talk and trade in some hub...
plus im broke, another reason the accounts are going. trust me hating the game changes or not i would continue training so i could seethe out of game until the training was done
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myrddhyn
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 12:02:00 -
[42]
yes i think this game lends itself well to the nerf/buff/patch cycle. My main does missions in a cnr so i got 'hit' too. But tbh it's only a problem if you're a low sp character. And far too many new players jumped to caldari just to get 'easy' acces to lvl 4's. So they kinda fixed that whilst nerfing the nano's heavily.
Every patch will make people cry but the longer you play the less effect certain 'nerfs' will have on you. Your uber fitting will be less effective but if you spend your time wisely you already have a backup ship.
If you quit over this then it's your loss. But then again as someone said if you're not having fun and this game is causing you sleepless nights it's time to go do something else.
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Valan
The Fated
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Posted - 2008.11.14 12:13:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Valan on 14/11/2008 12:14:41
Ok here is the nub of the issue we tell noobs they can compete with vets by specialising which is a valid comment especially considering the amount of skills now required.
So what do they do they specialise for a good set up now they don't predict what will happen in the future. So CCP nerf soemthing heavily and the specialisation arguement goes out the window as the counter to a severe nerf is to diversify.
The bit I really like is all the bears moan about war des and suicide ganking and CCP back track the harsh reality statement and nerf high sec piracy. So the bears are happy and CCP is happy because uber bears aren't quitting. They then implement a major nerf and lose the uber bears anyway.
The speed nerf was introduced because they were a pain to catch now all ships are a pain to catch because you can tank all the way to the gate.
Anyway none of it applies to me so lol
EDIT and BTW I bet you all love the new certs so you can see exactly how many skills you've wasted rofl. |
Cletus Graeme
Caldari
COLD-Wing
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Posted - 2008.11.14 12:16:00 -
[44]
Originally by: AccesiViale
Ive already cancelled both accounts.
No you cant "haz my stuff"
I'll be playing better games until the next patch and then I'll re-evaluate.
Good riddens! Don't let the door hit you on the way out. EvE is better for this loss tbh. Whiners = EPIC FAIL
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 12:20:00 -
[45]
Edited by: AccesiViale on 14/11/2008 12:21:04
lol, yea certs were the biggest croc of **** ever. If i want to know about what time ive wasted, id open up evemon.
didnt you hear, im only quitting because ill never be as cool as you
gg to me though cuz nothing is gonna change...
ccp's hair is a bird and my argument is invalid
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.14 12:23:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Valan
Edited by: Valan on 14/11/2008 12:14:41
Ok here is the nub of the issue we tell noobs they can compete with vets by specialising which is a valid comment especially considering the amount of skills now required.
.
Specialising, yes. Putting years into hyper-specialising into a single fit on a single ship, no.
Again, it's not like the CNR hasn't been the last word in general missioning running for years. Years. Pre-patch, you could be perfectly competent in a CNR, able to run every mission without warpouts in less than 6 months. The OP has had far more than enough time to diversify his skillset. There have been multiple changes in various ships and weapon types since he started playing, and it's not like the missile changes were kept as any kind of secret. I saw which way the wind was blowing and started preparing back in July.
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Taliph Stillwood
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Posted - 2008.11.14 12:26:00 -
[47]
I'm starting to wonder what is a worse read... emoragequit posts, or emorageicantreadsoi'lljustflamewhatithoughtthetopicwas posts
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Valan
The Fated
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 12:27:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Valan on 14/11/2008 12:36:49
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Valan
Edited by: Valan on 14/11/2008 12:14:41
Ok here is the nub of the issue we tell noobs they can compete with vets by specialising which is a valid comment especially considering the amount of skills now required.
.
Specialising, yes. Putting years into hyper-specialising into a single fit on a single ship, no.
Again, it's not like the CNR hasn't been the last word in general missioning running for years. Years. Pre-patch, you could be perfectly competent in a CNR, able to run every mission without warpouts in less than 6 months. The OP has had far more than enough time to diversify his skillset. There have been multiple changes in various ships and weapon types since he started playing, and it's not like the missile changes were kept as any kind of secret. I saw which way the wind was blowing and started preparing back in July.
I agree to a point old hands can see and predict whats going to happen and diversify. But the less canny and the new probably didn't know what they're letting themselves in for.
When I started I trained generic skills heavily. Then started on specifics that way every ship I flew was useful. But I was always secondary to the ftom specialist.
EDIT : Although I'm of the opinion missiles did less damage (apart from torps) than guns anyway so that offset the always hit issue. This nerf is basically to do with there are too many Caldari and not enough Amarr which is messing with the factional warfare story line. Hence when the box goes on sale you'll get more Amarr now. This isn't the first time CCP has mesed with game play to change the dynamics of the player base.
/start sig
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on.
/end sig |
AccesiViale
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 12:30:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Valan
Edited by: Valan on 14/11/2008 12:14:41
Ok here is the nub of the issue we tell noobs they can compete with vets by specialising which is a valid comment especially considering the amount of skills now required.
.
Specialising, yes. Putting years into hyper-specialising into a single fit on a single ship, no.
Again, it's not like the CNR hasn't been the last word in general missioning running for years. Years. Pre-patch, you could be perfectly competent in a CNR, able to run every mission without warpouts in less than 6 months. The OP has had far more than enough time to diversify his skillset. There have been multiple changes in various ships and weapon types since he started playing, and it's not like the missile changes were kept as any kind of secret. I saw which way the wind was blowing and started preparing back in July.
this is true, i could have prepared had i been paying more attention to eve (was busy getting my masters in cs) and now im pretty much to broke to play anyway
ty for all the input, both the hilariously stupid and the valid points, as there was both. i do feel better about qr if that is any consolation for those of you who went through and replied
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ramzahn
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.14 12:31:00 -
[50]
Originally by: AccesiViale
Hence, me asking if i was the only one who feels this way in a general discussion forum.
I share your opinion but couldn't express it so well.
Changing the rules of this game is completely divergent to having skill trees that take years to complete. Eve's skill system is unique. And because of that system you can *not* change the game as casually as any other game.
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Volarius
Digital assassins
G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.11.14 12:33:00 -
[51]
I haven't read your post.
I saw your threads subject, clicked the second page and clicked reply instantly.
And without ever reading your post or any of the replies I can tell you:
Yes, you are the only one.
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Herring
Caldari
Incessant Onslaught
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Posted - 2008.11.14 12:35:00 -
[52]
Yes, the OP has a point. Although he's been flamed to hell and back, there's no doubt that the continual nerf cycle does not many a happy player make. There's no doubt we've wasted our time training for skills, or races that no longer work very well. It'd be different if skills weren't so time intensive. But they are, so I can empathize. I too feel like my time has been wasted, and I don't like it. And I'm somewhat of a diversified player.
It's just a question of are you still having enough fun to pay for it, or are you not. I still am. But every time they radically change game mechanics, and waste another chunk of my training time, I move a little bit closer to that same fence. It's just not enjoyable. So cut the guy some slack. He's got a point.
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Taliph Stillwood
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Posted - 2008.11.14 12:37:00 -
[53]
Quote:
So cut the guy some slack. He's got a point.
Quoted for great glorious truth.
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AccesiViale
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 12:39:00 -
[54]
Originally by: ramzahn
Originally by: AccesiViale
Hence, me asking if i was the only one who feels this way in a general discussion forum.
I share your opinion but couldn't express it so well.
Changing the rules of this game is completely divergent to having skill trees that take years to complete. Eve's skill system is unique. And because of that system you can *not* change the game as casually as any other game.
lol, thanks. i could have used the support before the flames/ rick rolls/ and adapt or die posts.
I feel better about it now as there is only so long you can argue about something that wont change before you dont care anymore. It doesnt matter for me anymore anyway because im broke and cannot sustain two accounts, nor do i much want to. Ill be back...its just to bad i cant ghost train while im gone now either. |
Melthariumin
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 12:41:00 -
[55]
I dont understand all the whining about "teh great missile nerf".
The Raven is compared to average rail-/gunboats still better for running lvl 4's.
Just try to hit an orbiting tacklerfrig with a bs-sized railgun and then try it with a cruise missile and you see the difference. You dont do much damage with a cm anymore but you do NO damage with the rail(regardless of gunnery-SP ). And for missions where it's risky to use drones this li'l cm damage makes a huge difference.
oh and..
can i haz your...? |
AccesiViale
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 12:44:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Melthariumin
I dont understand all the whining about "teh great missile nerf".
The Raven is compared to average rail-/gunboats still better for running lvl 4's.
Just try to hit an orbiting tacklerfrig with a bs-sized railgun and then try it with a cruise missile and you see the difference. You dont do much damage with a cm anymore but you do NO damage with the rail(regardless of gunnery-SP ). And for missions where it's risky to use drones this li'l cm damage makes a huge difference.
oh and..
can i haz your...?
lol...ill be hazing my own stuff as soon as i get a job and renew my subscription. so one day when i haz all the sp and nerfs no longer effect me i can laugh and flame and tell people to adapt or die. |
ramzahn
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 12:51:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Herring
I too feel like my time has been wasted,...
You do realize that spending your time inside a computer game is wasted time anyway.
Or do you not?
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.14 12:51:00 -
[58]
Originally by: AccesiViale
Originally by: Melthariumin
I dont understand all the whining about "teh great missile nerf".
The Raven is compared to average rail-/gunboats still better for running lvl 4's.
Just try to hit an orbiting tacklerfrig with a bs-sized railgun and then try it with a cruise missile and you see the difference. You dont do much damage with a cm anymore but you do NO damage with the rail(regardless of gunnery-SP ). And for missions where it's risky to use drones this li'l cm damage makes a huge difference.
oh and..
can i haz your...?
lol...ill be hazing my own stuff as soon as i get a job and renew my subscription. so one day when i haz all the sp and nerfs no longer effect me i can laugh and flame and tell people to adapt or die.
That's the spirit! |
AccesiViale
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 12:54:00 -
[59]
Edited by: AccesiViale on 14/11/2008 12:55:08
Originally by: ramzahn
Originally by: Herring
I too feel like my time has been wasted,...
You do realize that spending your time inside a computer game is wasted time anyway.
Or do you not?
i guess my time has been double wasted then. I thought i was wasting it one way, but the way in which i was wasting it was ****d. So yea...double. lol |
Tellnan Matkiel
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 12:56:00 -
[60]
The skill system is wonderful, because it is reasonably easy to adapt and adjust to changing game mechanics. Far easier than other MMOs as far as I can tell. |
AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 12:57:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Tellnan Matkiel
The skill system is wonderful, because it is reasonably easy to adapt and adjust to changing game mechanics. Far easier than other MMOs as far as I can tell.
as far as i know i cant max an eve char out in 3 days like any other mmo...so i would say its a bit less forgiving
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.14 12:58:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Tellnan Matkiel
The skill system is wonderful, because it is reasonably easy to adapt and adjust to changing game mechanics. Far easier than other MMOs as far as I can tell.
yeah, think about some game where you have fixed classes. If your class gets nerfed, you're SOL. Start again.
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ramzahn
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 12:58:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Malcanis
That's the spirit!
No, it isn't. It's just recycling the same old erroneous conclusions and reiterating the wrongs of others done to you. Transmutating you into what you hate.
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Zanpt
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 12:58:00 -
[64]
Originally by: AccesiViale
...I guess I just don't understand why the need for perpetual balancing exists.
I agree. Btw, the inability of ppl here to simply discuss what you tried to raise is appalling.
Originally by: AccesiViale
Is the goal to go around and around w/ the balance until every ship within the same class performs the same?
Perhaps so. And if so, Eve will start the long, irreversible downward spiral and become just another footnote in the history of MMOGs. It seems like business in general has a serious self-defeating background task running, where success is followed before long by shooting themselves in the feet, and the game industry seems particularly bad in this regard.
Originally by: AccesiViale
Anyway im done here, you guys sure showed me...
I canceled nine accounts immediately after the unsubbed training nerf went into effect. I would never, though, base a decision to be in the game or out of the game on forum posts by other players, many of whom show themselves to be complete morons. Any time I have allowed accounts to expire it has always been to punish CCP for actions/inactions of theirs that I deemed unacceptable. The only weapon I have in the real world for dealing with shoddy or dodgy vendors is my money. I use it ruthlessly.
Originally by: AccesiViale
and for reference i didnt delete my charactors that would be stupid.
Right. Neither have I been pushed quite that far. Yet. But the game is so addictive (although much less so since the unsubbed training nerf and the lies and spin about it) that the only effective way to truly leave the game forever is to spend all your ISK, trash all your stuff, and terminate your chars. To ever come back and start over completely from scratch you'd have to be an unmatched masochist.
I would only ever give away or sell stuff if I were leaving for my own reasons, not because of displeasure with CCP. Leaving due to being fed up with CCP is best done by keeping all your stuff or trashing it, either way keeping it out of the Eve economy.
Originally by: AccesiViale
Just frozen after the account expires so maybe later i can take them out of the freeze dried packaging when ccp finishes something noteworthy.
Quite so... at least until that irreversible decision day comes.
I just reactivated some accounts for 30 days to check out the Orca. Once I have experienced the new ship and determined the details of what it can and can't do I won't be curious anymore and will once again go inactive. Unless, of course, I'm so thrilled with the Orca that it changes my whole view of the game. That is unlikely, though.
Originally by: AccesiViale
Like i said previous as well, im quitting for many reasons, QR changes just tipped the scale.
In my book CCP descended so far into the depths with the unsubbed training nerf and lies and spin that it will take a huge amount of CCP doing things right, and time, before I can ever feel right about doing business with them again on a regular, sustained basis. Then, even just trying to reactivate some accounts to check out the Orca, I ran into the incompetence of their CC processor and I seem to be blocked and can't reactivate the last two accounts. I'll be damned if I'll ever buy another GTC again, so I filed the petition and told them further reactivation won't take place until they deal with the CC processor problems.
I may as well point out the other side of my displeasure... the new cycle indicator is brilliant and has already been useful... damn, I can't recall the other few small but good things they did in QR.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.14 13:01:00 -
[65]
Originally by: AccesiViale
Originally by: Tellnan Matkiel
The skill system is wonderful, because it is reasonably easy to adapt and adjust to changing game mechanics. Far easier than other MMOs as far as I can tell.
as far as i know i cant max an eve char out in 3 days like any other mmo...so i would say its a bit less forgiving
Maybe not, but on the other hand, a bare nekkid level 70 ain't much use in WoW - how long does to take you to get all the Tier-865 PurpleGreenPaisleyTartanStrobe items you "need" to be equivalent to a specialised character in EvE? At least as long, I suspect.
At least in EvE, the nerfwheel eventually swings your way again (ref: smug 2004 amarr players right now). In WoW, once your gear is obselete, it's worthless for ever.
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 13:04:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Tellnan Matkiel
The skill system is wonderful, because it is reasonably easy to adapt and adjust to changing game mechanics. Far easier than other MMOs as far as I can tell.
yeah, think about some game where you have fixed classes. If your class gets nerfed, you're SOL. Start again.
LOL sol...you mean work hard for a week and be back on top, maxed out with a new class. that is in no way comparable to what happens here. were talking months/ years
not talking gear, you can be done "adapting" in a week or so.
I probably wouldnt have even cared if new learning skills were implemented because an outlet to speed my transition would have been provided. But now ive got one maxed tree, all learning skills, +5 set.
i think ill try t2 rails "oh just wait 130 days, it will be awesome"
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 13:09:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: AccesiViale
Originally by: Tellnan Matkiel
The skill system is wonderful, because it is reasonably easy to adapt and adjust to changing game mechanics. Far easier than other MMOs as far as I can tell.
as far as i know i cant max an eve char out in 3 days like any other mmo...so i would say its a bit less forgiving
Maybe not, but on the other hand, a bare nekkid level 70 ain't much use in WoW - how long does to take you to get all the Tier-865 PurpleGreenPaisleyTartanStrobe items you "need" to be equivalent to a specialised character in EvE? At least as long, I suspect.
At least in EvE, the nerfwheel eventually swings your way again (ref: smug 2004 amarr players right now). In WoW, once your gear is obselete, it's worthless for ever.
simply waiting all that time for skills to complete is still a bare char as well...im pretty sure i wasnt issued officer gear when i finished torpedo spec 5.
at least making old gear obsolete makes sense where as our **** is now worse....because. Not just us but any races equipment...why should we settle for no new content being introduced. The nerf wheel keeps going around...smug 2004 chars waited almost 5 years...but there **** is the same...
it just seems like it just keeps going around until we have all the same hardware in a different case.
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Love Exchange
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 13:13:00 -
[68]
Nope, not you are the only one... the guys who thought CCP went too far with - basically not only with missile nerf, but the recent changes in the last 6 months ie: removing 30/90 day gtcs, removeing the ghost training feature are already canceled their subscription.
I can completely understand you. Hate to see something which was good and worked properly - from my viewpoint - gets "balanced". Then i hate to read from guys who "knows better" that how good it is now, and how happy i should be about it.
The only thing i personally dont like about respecing is the reason. Why would i respec to something just to see it will get "balanced" so i will have to respec again. The motivation is just sux. And since we are talking about a game, this is a very important factor.
In other words, why to pay more to get less and less - and here i think of the all the changes of the last 6 months. This missile "boost" was just the period at the end of the sentence.
I have 3 accs, a caldari mission runner, a caldari capital pilot and a scanner/miner.
All paid till mid december, and i really think of not renewing them till I - as a player - receives something which really makes me come back.
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Demeterus
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 13:19:00 -
[69]
Originally by: AccesiViale
Originally by: Tellnan Matkiel
The skill system is wonderful, because it is reasonably easy to adapt and adjust to changing game mechanics. Far easier than other MMOs as far as I can tell.
as far as i know i cant max an eve char out in 3 days like any other mmo...so i would say its a bit less forgiving
Why would you even want to max an eve char? It's not like there's a heck of a lot of difference between Level IV and Level V in most cases. For a skill like drone interfacing, I can see the point of going for level V given the 20 % increase in damage, but for many other skills it is quite pointless to "max" it unless you're heading for a skillset that level v unlocks. |
Haakelen
Gallente
Fire Mandrill
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 13:22:00 -
[70]
Originally by: AccesiViale
LOL sol...you mean work hard for a week and be back on top, maxed out with a new class. that is in no way comparable to what happens here. were talking months/ years
Perhaps once you realize Eve isn't a level-based minmax game, you will see why this is completely irrelevant. |
AccesiViale
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 13:24:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Demeterus
Originally by: AccesiViale
Originally by: Tellnan Matkiel
The skill system is wonderful, because it is reasonably easy to adapt and adjust to changing game mechanics. Far easier than other MMOs as far as I can tell.
as far as i know i cant max an eve char out in 3 days like any other mmo...so i would say its a bit less forgiving
Why would you even want to max an eve char? It's not like there's a heck of a lot of difference between Level IV and Level V in most cases. For a skill like drone interfacing, I can see the point of going for level V given the 20 % increase in damage, but for many other skills it is quite pointless to "max" it unless you're heading for a skillset that level v unlocks.
I was unaware my want for all 5 was even the point. Would it make you feel better if i said all level 4 cannot be done in a week and that no matter how hard i "try" pvp or mission running, i cannot make it go faster. Making changes like this a bit more devasting then some other mmo where it can be done INSTANTLY (when compared to eve timetables) |
AccesiViale
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 13:26:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: AccesiViale
LOL sol...you mean work hard for a week and be back on top, maxed out with a new class. that is in no way comparable to what happens here. were talking months/ years
Perhaps once you realize Eve isn't a level-based minmax game, you will see why this is completely irrelevant.
could you comprehend the first sentence of the first post, youd see its entirely relevant to the purpose of discussion in this thread |
pausert
Caldari
AFK
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 17:24:00 -
[73]
Good post and you are correct, this is the worst MMO when handling nerfs. The first 6 months are hard due to learning skills and trying to figure out a skill tree path.When the nerfbat swings and hits you its hard to switch gears, ie going from missiles to guns and from shield tanking to armor tanking. These skill changes while not that big a deal for older players, since most have all the core skills trained, are a big deal to the newer player.
For example, a couple of months back a new player needed a hand in a lvl 3. I hopped into a drake and gave him a hand, he was amazed that I agro the entire room and just whacked all including those nasty BS (mission was that lvl 3 storyline 9/10 10/10 ?) I explained that I had 6 million + SP in missiles, which was more SP than his entire character. Lucky for him he is going Minnie not Caldari.
This missile nerf hurts the new mission runners the most,the rest of us should have other skills already to offset the nerf. Do what I did if you can, buy a CNR and use a target painter or Nighthawk, which is better than a CNR now. |
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