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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:13:00 -
[1]
That thinks that the mechanics of eve do not lend itself to the nerf/buff mmo cycle well? This game takes hours/days/weeks of learning and planning and testing to learn to do certain things well and to get skills in line to do them efficiently. For those who say adapt or die, I just don't see the logic. To adapt will require that I learn and train something else other than missles, by the time that is complete, the next trash patch will be out and ruin what it is I just spent six months trying to perfect. I would have no complaints if I could "re-roll" a new char to max skills in some area in a few days with some hard work. However, nothing I can do can make "adaptation" in this game any faster. All I can do is start from scratch learning a new skill tree and hand ccp more money. The only saving grace I thought of the missle changes would be the Jav Torps getting 50% more range and losing 10% damage. However that isnt in place either as no changes were made leading me to believe its a bug with the patch or simply ccp misrepresenting a current mechanic as a new "change".
Ive already cancelled both accounts.
No you cant "haz my stuff"
I'll be playing better games until the next patch and then I'll re-evaluate.
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Kransthow
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:14:00 -
[2]
adapt or die, can I have your stuff and first
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:15:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: AccesiViale
That thinks that the mechanics of eve do not lend itself to the nerf/buff mmo cycle well? This game takes hours/days/weeks of learning and planning and testing to learn to do certain things well and to get skills in line to do them efficiently. For those who say adapt or die, I just don't see the logic. To adapt will require that I learn and train something else other than missles, by the time that is complete, the next trash patch will be out and ruin what it is I just spent six months trying to perfect. I would have no complaints if I could "re-roll" a new char to max skills in some area in a few days with some hard work. However, nothing I can do can make "adaptation" in this game any faster. All I can do is start from scratch learning a new skill tree and hand ccp more money. The only saving grace I thought of the missle changes would be the Jav Torps getting 50% more range and losing 10% damage. However that isnt in place either as no changes were made leading me to believe its a bug with the patch or simply ccp misrepresenting a current mechanic as a new "change".
Ive already cancelled both accounts.
No you cant "haz my stuff"
I'll be playing better games until the next patch and then I'll re-evaluate.
/me wonders why people cancel their accounts then asks if things are right? If we all say all is fine would you re-subscribe?
Secure 3rd party service ■ Veldspar |
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:20:00 -
[4]
because i have less than a month on my sub left, i cant be curious as to how the other people feel about this? Of course none of you have any influence on how im spending my money and time. Hence, me asking if i was the only one who feels this way in a general discussion forum.
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Mat rix
Caldari
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:20:00 -
[5]
I thought this was appropriate
Quote:
never gonna give you up,
Never gonna let you down,
Never gonna run around and desert you,
Never gonna make you cry,
Never gonna say goodbye,
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you
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Lana Lanee
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:22:00 -
[6]
adapt or die
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Chienka
Viziam
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:23:00 -
[7]
Let me guess, another bitter nano/carebear pilot (This encompasses everyone in EVE?) bitter about recent changes and can't handle adapting.
[] Adapt
[X] Die
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:23:00 -
[8]
i used to think that eve players were a bit smarter then those of other mmo's. i stand corrected...gg to me i guess
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Karille
Gallente
Lordless
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:39:00 -
[9]
Originally by: AccesiViale
To adapt will require that I learn and train something else other than missles, by the time that is complete, the next trash patch will be out and ruin what it is I just spent six months trying to perfect.
Guess what. Once you train both missiles and something else you'll have two options. After that if you train something else you'll have three options. I assume you can see where I'm going with this. You don't need every skill at level 5 to be good. You nerfed yourself with your lack of options. I used to fly a nos domi. When nos changed, I changed. Then I flew an ishkur with medium drones. When bandwidth changed, I changed. So you're stuck learning something instead of missiles? At least you CAN learn something else. How many times have you seen a priest respec into a ranger? (Guild wars doesn't count!)
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: AccesiViale
i used to think that eve players were a bit smarter then those of other mmo's. i stand corrected...gg to me i guess
Well you're the one who's quitting 2 days after a patch that's encouraging you to learn new fits and tactics. Jesus man, the hypocrisy.
There will be new optimal fits, there will be ways for smart players to use their ships, modules & skills to overwhelming advantage, there will be tears from those unable or just plain unwilling to adapt.
Man up and find them, for God's sake. It's fun. It's what the game is about: challenge, winning, losing, discovery, success, failure, go and god damb play the game. And then send a nice thank you note to the devs for prying you out of your cosy, cramped, stale little comfort zone.
Or run off crying. Whatever.
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:56:00 -
[11]
While I will agree that my situation could have been partially avoided by diversifing early on, certainly you can agree that cycling like this in a game where progress takes so much time is certainly less than productive. Its like...the only way to not get screwed is to have all the skill points. Then you can say adapt or die because the choice is simple. For example, i just spent almost a month training caldari bs 5, finishes in 2 days. Thats a whole month and 14$ that was needlessly wasted. Time is everyones most valuable resource, and ccp is squandering ours, as well as their own. All of the mechanics were fine pre-qr. As a caldari spec player in gallente space engaged in FW (which also sucks) it just seems like anything else would have been a better use of everyones time and certainly my money. Like...where is the storefronts and product branding talked about for QR in the dev interview....oh pushed back...because it would have been cool. No, instead we want to focus on whats ok already. Certs are a joke, align top w/ the hud, and the drone window staying put....lol. c'mon really. seriously a joke like gw bush's presidency. Maybe hes a dev at ccp. Everything was fine in america, then him, everything fine in eve then ccp...hmmm
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:58:00 -
[12]
Edited by: AccesiViale on 14/11/2008 10:05:43
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: AccesiViale
i used to think that eve players were a bit smarter then those of other mmo's. i stand corrected...gg to me i guess
Well you're the one who's quitting 2 days after a patch that's encouraging you to learn new fits and tactics. Jesus man, the hypocrisy.
lol... im pretty sure i made the smart move...my money is in my pocket until i'm confident im spending it in the right place.
anyway i suppose ive gotten my answer to the question of this post anyway. I must be the only one then. Suppose I might see you all next patch/expansion...its been a real pleasure
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Kransthow
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.14 09:59:00 -
[13]
umm
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:02:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Malcanis on 14/11/2008 10:03:09
Originally by: AccesiViale
While I will agree that my situation could have been partially avoided by diversifing early on, certainly you can agree that cycling like this in a game where progress takes so much time is certainly less than productive. Its like...the only way to not get screwed is to have all the skill points. Then you can say adapt or die because the choice is simple. For example, i just spent almost a month training caldari bs 5, finishes in 2 days. Thats a whole month and 14$ that was needlessly wasted. Time is everyones most valuable resource, and ccp is squandering ours, as well as their own. All of the mechanics were fine pre-qr. As a caldari spec player in gallente space engaged in FW (which also sucks) it just seems like anything else would have been a better use of everyones time and certainly my money. Like...where is the storefronts and product branding talked about for QR in the dev interview....oh pushed back...because it would have been cool. No, instead we want to focus on whats ok already. Certs are a joke, align top w/ the hud, and the drone window staying put....lol. c'mon really. seriously a joke like gw bush's presidency. Maybe hes a dev at ccp. Everything was fine in america, then him, everything fine in eve then ccp...hmmm
You have Caldari BS V? Nice. Your Rokhs and Scorpions will be pretty sweet.
And hey, even your Ravens too if you fly 'em right.
Hint: look at your drone bandwidth. Hey now, there are some possibilities there...
Hint: Caldari ships are all meant to be flown as part of balanced gangs, and they're still unmatchable when this is done properly. Got any friends who fly Hyenas, Huginns or Rapiers?
EDIT: and if you actually didn't do anything while BS V was training, so that you really did get no value out of your $14, then more fool you tbh.
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Solasta Kovacs
Total Mayhem.
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:03:00 -
[15]
The point is that adapting to these changes does not neccessarily require you to retrain and stop using missiles...
Hint: work out how to use them in the new context.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:07:00 -
[16]
Originally by: AccesiViale
i used to think that eve players were a bit smarter then those of other mmo's. i stand corrected...gg to me i guess
Give us a break, this is the 90th thread on the same thing.
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:13:00 -
[17]
if you put on your thinking cap and read the first sentence you will see that is not the 90th thread on the same thing. The primary question being, do you or do you not think eve lends itself well to the nerf/buff cycle that most mmos seem to have.
And to those above id prefer not to remove any of my tank for painters or the ability to stay out of range...and im also quite a bit slower now too, which is great. You guys dont have to "talk me into it." i've evaluated my options on what i could do to adapt as a primarily solo carebear running 4s. I just dont see the raven as a good choice anymore for that purpose...and the rokh might be great.....if i had any skills....in ... gunnery...
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Lana Lanee
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:15:00 -
[18]
Originally by: AccesiViale
if you put on your thinking cap and read the first sentence you will see that is not the 90th thread on the same thing. The primary question being, do you or do you not think eve lends itself well to the nerf/buff cycle that most mmos seem to have.
And to those above id prefer not to remove any of my tank for painters or the ability to stay out of range...and im also quite a bit slower now too, which is great. You guys dont have to "talk me into it." i've evaluated my options on what i could do to adapt as a primarily solo carebear running 4s. I just dont see the raven as a good choice anymore for that purpose...and the rokh might be great.....if i had any skills....in ... gunnery...
adapt or d..
...
oh..
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:18:00 -
[19]
Originally by: AccesiViale
if you put on your thinking cap and read the first sentence you will see that is not the 90th thread on the same thing. The primary question being, do you or do you not think eve lends itself well to the nerf/buff cycle that most mmos seem to have.
And to those above id prefer not to remove any of my tank for painters or the ability to stay out of range...and im also quite a bit slower now too, which is great. You guys dont have to "talk me into it." i've evaluated my options on what i could do to adapt as a primarily solo carebear running 4s. I just dont see the raven as a good choice anymore for that purpose...and the rokh might be great.....if i had any skills....in ... gunnery...
in that case stop talking about the nerf itself and maybe people would discuss your point.
also just get some small drones, your tank should be fine just look up the NPC damage type before hand and fit only 2 resistance amps for those dmg types. then fit a painter. Train up some drone tracking skills and get minmatar medium tech 2 drones (they track better right?) Now your large missles with the painter will chew through bigger ships and your medium drones wll eat frigates. bring some light drones just in case.
sentries might be a good idea too.
another idea would be webbing drones. send them out web a target at long range, paint him, and take him out.
oh wait what did you want this thread to be about?
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:22:00 -
[20]
Edited by: AccesiViale on 14/11/2008 10:23:51
i only started to discuss particular problems im dealing w/ for this patch in general when the first 5 replies i got were flames, rick rolls, and spam. The question remains yet no one answers...18 replies later.
i will concede that this thread has digressed quite a bit as i am leaving eve for many reasons both gameplay and non-gameplay related. Do i dislike QR, yea, but I was already on the fence.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:24:00 -
[21]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 14/11/2008 10:25:14
Quote:
I just spent six months trying to perfect. I would have no complaints if I could "re-roll" a new char to max skills in some area in a few days with some hard work. However, nothing I can do can make "adaptation" in this game any faster. All I can do is start from scratch learning a new skill tree and hand ccp more money. The only saving grace I thought of the missle changes would be the Jav Torps getting 50% more range and losing 10% damage. However that isnt in place either as no changes were made leading me to believe its a bug with the patch or simply ccp misrepresenting a current mechanic as a new "change". Ive already cancelled both accounts.
no offense but this has the vibe of "whine whine whine"
you should of kept yourself out of the subject.
Also saying you allready quit pretty much made everyone just glaze over.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:24:00 -
[22]
Originally by: AccesiViale
if you put on your thinking cap and read the first sentence you will see that is not the 90th thread on the same thing. The primary question being, do you or do you not think eve lends itself well to the nerf/buff cycle that most mmos seem to have.
And to those above id prefer not to remove any of my tank for painters or the ability to stay out of range...and im also quite a bit slower now too, which is great. You guys dont have to "talk me into it." i've evaluated my options on what i could do to adapt as a primarily solo carebear running 4s. I just dont see the raven as a good choice anymore for that purpose...and the rokh might be great.....if i had any skills....in ... gunnery...
Start training, then. When you can use turrets, drones and launchers you'll be nerfproof. You don't need T2 guns for missions - gauss prototypes or even DG/Serp rails are pretty easy to train for. Get your gunnery supports up to 4, train large hybrids 4, and you're off.
Meanwhile maybe consider not running level 4s solo if you're truly finding them difficult.
Seriously, I'm finding great difficulty in sympathising with your implicit assertion that you should be allowed to endlessly, risklessly, mindlessly run level 4 missions in exactly the same way with exactly the same fit, bar the occasional upgrade to faction/deadspace/officer mods. I've seen some other posters suggest that this is the start of CCP nerfing level 4 missions, which is a long, long, long overdue change.
PS You have tried Precision Cruise, right?
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:32:00 -
[23]
its only riskless and mindless because i spent a year and a half training the needed skills to make it so. My adaptation will be to train the newly needed skills to make it possible again. I dont know why its such a problem that i be "allowed" to abide by the rules of the game and run missions how i please and have spent so much time/effort/training/money(all the same i guess) on.
And besides...again...not the point of the topic. Nobody wants to acknoledge that the only way to not get screwed with a nerf cycle is to have been playing for long enough to have comprehensive skills in most areas?
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LordSwift
INTERSTELLAR ENTERPRISE
StarFleet Federation
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:45:00 -
[24]
Dont know about you. But i think this killmail proves that missiles are still awesome and worthwhile to train up.
Linkage
Get over it. I think it might be a good idea you do take a break. You dont seem to be enjoying the game and only logging in to train a skill. (Ive done it before)
Find something else to do other than missions. I recently moved with my alliance down to 0.0 and i am having a great time.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:50:00 -
[25]
If you just train for turrets and get a rokh, you will understand one thing very fast. Raven is still a very good mission runner. I dont got perfect missile skills and i barely do missions slower since quantum rise, some missions can even be done faster.
I also got a navy megathron, faction fitted (my cnr is t2/best named), it is way slower than a CNR for most missions, even after quantum rise.
Why do you only want to have the best? You dont give a crap if it is balanced or not, because then you would know that if you want it balanced for pve ravens would need another nerf (together with amarr BS and domi probably). Raven is still better than all non amarr turret BS.
You say your raven is useless now, which ship do you want instead?
Minmatar BS? LOL
Gallente turret BS? LOL
Dominix? A decent replacement, with some fittings faster than raven, but not much better.
Amarr BS? Great against blood raiders and sanshas, against everything else raven is better.
Rokh/Scorpion? LOL
So in general the only BS that might now be better than raven in general is the dominix, but you could allready say that before quantum rise since ravens for missions are barely affected.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.14 11:10:00 -
[26]
Originally by: AccesiViale
its only riskless and mindless because i spent a year and a half training the needed skills to make it so. My adaptation will be to train the newly needed skills to make it possible again. I dont know why its such a problem that i be "allowed" to abide by the rules of the game and run missions how i please and have spent so much time/effort/training/money(all the same i guess) on.
And besides...again...not the point of the topic. Nobody wants to acknoledge that the only way to not get screwed with a nerf cycle is to have been playing for long enough to have comprehensive skills in most areas?
But you said it yourself: it is riskless and mindless. So what were you wanting? to finish cruise spec V and then run exactly the same missions in exactly the same way for ever and ever, amen? God, no wonder you said you were already leaving EvE. You were paying $14/mo to essentially be a macro.
Seriously, by your description, you had already won EvE. You had pretty much perfect skills for the optimal ship with it's optimal fit. And you're ready to play a new game.
So: pretend you've biomassed your character and quit EvE, and you're starting a new space MMO. Except that you're starting with great stats, lots of cash and assets, and loads of more or less applicable support skills. Do something completely different. Become a pirate, or a han solo-style rogue blockade runner in NPC 0.0 (BRs are awesome now btw), or join a merc corp or FW or get into exploration. Seriously, instead of just reflexively saying I DUN WANNA, give 'em a try. You clearly 'dun wanna' carry on missioning either, so what the eff have you got to lose?
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.14 11:22:00 -
[27]
*sigh* since nobody seems to be able to read the first sentence of this thread and answer that question and also seem to want to persist in trying to change this to another thread about telling an ailing raven pilot should do to his fit to make it better. I think its safe to say we can let this thread die. Im not talking all about QR but nerf/buff cycling in general. The game was fine before the patch. QR is an "expansion" that expands nothing. Wouldnt we like to see actual progress made on all the other lofty ideas ccp has put forth? Like i said previous, i dont like the changes but i also dont require input on why i should. Nit picking game mechanics for eternity is total suck when cool **** like walking in stations, storefronts, all that **** sees no progress. ESPECIALLY for an expansion. The only thing "new" is the orca and the stargates.
So in short I think this game does not lend itself well to the cycle, not only does it cycle the players that are ****ed about something, it takes our money, wastes our time, and distracts us from the new things we actually want or the stuff that is really broken. For god sakes, the game has no native AA setting... its 2009 and the client is leaking and their nerfing **** that wasnt broken. Then, im sure they will release mini patches based on the feedback they are receiving now, ... more wasted time and effort by everybody. We all could be saying thanks for the cool storefronts you promised for this patch instead of fighting the merits of playstyles and how we each have chosen to train thus far. If anything we should be uniting to kill each other in game...or make **** for others to kill with. Instead thousands of us are in here...complaining about something, or complaining that others are complaining about something.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.11.14 11:25:00 -
[28]
Adapting does not mean training for the new FoTM.
That is not adaptation as you have not changed your basic strategy.
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DesuSigs |
Furb Killer
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.14 11:25:00 -
[29]
FYI, raven was broken for missions, it was way better than most other battleships for missions, some could outperform it against certain opponents, but in general raven was just the best.
And when you make a nice rant, and then put somewhere in your rant: "this topic is about bunnies", doesnt mean this topic is about bunnies.
This is just a whine topic by someone who insists on using cruise missiles against frigates, adapt or die.
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Captator
Universal Securities
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Posted - 2008.11.14 11:30:00 -
[30]
I don't understand why people who limit themselves to training along one narrow path complain when that path is made less useful. If you specialise in a field, there will come a point where anything more is training spec 5 or something. At this point, you just start cross-training, and you will find that it takes very little time to cross-train for a race.
I cross-trained over to minmatar from amarr in 2 months, and can now fly all of their t2 ships upto command ship proficiently (just got to get med arty and hml spec to completely t2 fit them).
You can also do it the other way, which is train everything at start, and then just spec in what you enjoy, completely illogical to train what you enjoy rather than what is best isn't it...
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