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What is this about EBANK?

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Dred 'Morte Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.11.15 23:07:00 - [1] I can't find much independent information regarding this. At first sight, it scares me. Having read lots about free market economics, central banking, fractional reserve banking, etc, the idea of EVE having banks scare the living s*** out of me. It would be fraud on a huge scale, no matter how exacly it's put in. But as this EBANK seems to me player controlled, I have good hopes the whole thing is a scam or it will simply fail when people loose confidence, try to make withdrawels en mass, and the whole thing fails. However, admiting much ignorance ragarding this issue, I ask fellow player to please tell me more about this. Thanks in advance.
Kira Mossolini	Posted - 2008.11.15 23:10:00 - [2] Edited by: Kira Mossolini on 15/11/2008 23:11:09 Edited by: Kira Mossolini on 15/11/2008 23:10:23 I have placed billions and received billions out of EBANK, EBANK currently loads about 3.4 Trillion ISK. Honestly the best way to test EBANK is to place 100m in it and try and withdraw it :) Put it like this, unless you're going to putting in trillions, you're fine. Their audit line for you: HERE
Hilion Narath Narath Asteroid Conservation Foundation	Posted - 2008.11.15 23:13:00 - [3] Edited by: Hilion Narath on 15/11/2008 23:13:37 Edited by: Hilion Narath on 15/11/2008 23:13:25 There is both an in-game channel (ebank I believe it is called, handily enough) and a plethora of threads regarding EBank in the Market Discussion forum. They also have website you can visit. Long and short of it is, it actually is extremely unlikely it is a scam. There is usually a thread every month or two by someone who has heard of it, knows nothing, and assumes it is a scam. They have roughly 1T, that is 1 Trillion isk in public money. 1,000,000,000,000isk. If they wanted to scam, I imagine they would have already. They have a variety of measures in place to assure that even should someone with access try and scam, they would only be able to take a small fraction, safeguarding the bank as a whole (which after well over a year of continuous profitable operation has sufficient reserves to cover such an event I'm sure.) Anyway, I would direct your questions to the EBank forums or the market discussion forum here on the e-o website. Or use eve-search of course. --- Hilion Narath - Ex-Angel, Pirate, Very Senior Citizen, Bootlegger, Conservationist?? The Assassin
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.11.15 23:14:00 - [4] I believe EBANK only has about 1 Trillian ATM. I interviewed Ricdic awhile back for eve-mag, see here to some of the answers to your questions. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Dred 'Morte Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.11.15 23:16:00 - [5] Ok, thanks, but one last question please: What are the reserves? That's the most important transparency needed. What % of reserve does the bank have, on average?
Hilion Narath Narath Asteroid Conservation Foundation	Posted - 2008.11.15 23:23:00 - [6] Well, I would hit the in game channel and find a representative for a better number, but I believe they keep something in the 20% area liquid. Now, this being eve, there is a good chance that a lot of their invested assets could be liquidated very quickly, but it isn't likely to be an issue. If for no other reason than there are likely quite a few players who have invested money and since quit the game. There have been several rounds of large withdraws (I imagine that the Orca lead to a few for example) and as far as I know they have never had any liquidity issues. Incidentally, as linked above, they have a pretty detailed stats page. --- Hilion Narath - Ex-Angel, Pirate, Very Senior Citizen, Bootlegger, Conservationist?? The Assassin
ramification	Posted - 2008.11.16 00:21:00 - [7] It's worth pointing out that EBank's interest rate of 3%/month is tiny compared to the amounts you can get by investing the same isk in normal trading. That's not to say it's a scam, just that they're obviously in business for the same reason that real banks are in business.
ShardowRhino Caldari Legion 0f The Damned	Posted - 2008.11.16 13:37:00 - [8] Originally by: Dred 'Morte I can't find much independent information regarding this.in advance. If you want to know a bit about it, go to the source. Jacob Mei did an interview recently for Eve-Mag.com covering the topic. http://www.eve-mag.com/archives/737 Hope it helps clear up some answers for you. I nor Eve-Mag.com actually endorses nor condones the services your interested but scared of. just a disclaimer ;)
Shakari Sween Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.11.16 14:17:00 - [9] Originally by: ShardowRhino Originally by: Dred 'Morte I can't find much independent information regarding this.in advance. If you want to know a bit about it, go to the source. Jacob Mei did an interview recently for Eve-Mag.com covering the topic. Eve-mag linkage fixarma! Hope it helps clear up some answers for you. I nor Eve-Mag.com actually endorses nor condones the services your interested but scared of. just a disclaimer ;) just fixed the link for you
Julius Rigel House Rigel	Posted - 2008.11.16 14:20:00 - [10] If you can't trust a pretend bank with your pretend money, how can you trust a real bank with your REAL money?

ouroboros trading Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.11.16 14:20:00 - [11] Originally by: ramification It's worth pointing out that EBank's interest rate of 3%/month is tiny compared to the amounts you can get by investing the same isk in normal trading. That's not to say it's a scam, just that they're obviously in business for the same reason that real banks are in business. can't help but agree tbh, you can make several 100% trading over their offered 3%. But that said, if you can't, or won't trade, eBank is probably not going to scam you.
AkRoYeR Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.16 14:37:00 - [12] Why would anyone trust a virtual bank for a long time anyway. Eventually some pirate will take it all, it's happened before and will happen again. Withdraw while you can, the end is near!
ouroboros trading Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.11.16 14:41:00 - [13] Originally by: AkRoYeR Why would anyone trust a virtual bank for a long time anyway. Eventually some pirate will take it all, it's happened before and will happen again. Withdraw while you can, the end is near! STOP TRYING TO CAUSE A RUN ON EBANK YOU FILTHY COMMIE REDISTRIBUTIONIST
Shakari Sween Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.11.16 14:53:00 - [14] Currently it looks like ebank is growing slowley, but steadily. When the release this share/baond thing it will become alot more active(not that its not active atm). What I hope they are thinking about is weither or not they will need more staff(tellers etc) when this happens, and how trust worthy the new staff they may need are. Atm I would say I trust ebank 95%, but if they do have to take on an influx of staff(ie really quickly) to cope with an influx of customers, how trust worthy are the NEW staff going to be, I would defintly see this as an oportunity for a posible scammer(thief) to get into the ranks of Ebank. So I just hope they are thinking ahead and posibly start veting posible staff now.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.11.16 14:54:00 - [15] Originally by: ouroboros trading Originally by: AkRoYeR Why would anyone trust a virtual bank for a long time anyway. Eventually some pirate will take it all, it's happened before and will happen again. Withdraw while you can, the end is near! STOP TRYING TO CAUSE A RUN ON EBANK YOU FILTHY COMMIE REDISTRIBUTIONIST Runs on the bank makes me cry
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.11.16 14:58:00 - [16] Originally by: Shakari Sween Currently it looks like ebank is growing slowley, but steadily. When the release this share/baond thing it will become alot more active(not that its not active atm). What I hope they are thinking about is weither or not they will need more staff(tellers etc) when this happens, and how trust worthy the new staff they may need are. Atm I would say I trust ebank 95%, but if they do have to take on an influx of staff(ie really quickly) to cope with an influx of customers, how trust worthy are the NEW staff going to be, I would defintly see this as an oportunity for a posible scammer(thief) to get into the ranks of Ebank. So I just hope they are thinking ahead and posibly start veting posible staff now. Trust me, we vet our staff. I recall a case where a programmer was hired(They CAN'T access our live server and all the code is audited), but there was very little information passed on. But that is obviously no good, so I personally made sure that it was corrected and the board of directors was properly informed about it. The person in question was obviously a very fine person. But you are right; we MUST vet our people very very carefully. There's not that much overhead with customers. We have 2000 customers and our in-game followers in our chat channel, as well as our staff, are extremely helpful. So everything is well
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2008.11.17 00:56:00 - [17] Hi guys. EBANK have been in operation for about 12 months now. Prior to this EBANK was in design and construction for approximately 5 months. We host a completely automated website and deposit tracking system and security (both on site and ingame) are our biggest priority. We host a large board of directors and very specific limitations on the amounts of funds one can have access too. As I am the character that recieves the deposits (and the CEO/Founder) I am generally the one with the most access. In the event that I scammed EBANK, I might be able to net approximately 150 billion isk. This is about 9% of the value of EBANK. The idea behind EBANK is that in the event of a scam the bank itself can take on the loss and continue to operate. Take a look at our annual report here. It's a 26 page document but it's a really good read.
Harrent Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.17 01:11:00 - [18] Edited by: Harrent on 17/11/2008 01:11:23 Originally by: EBANK Ricdic Hi guys. EBANK have been in operation for about 12 months now. Prior to this EBANK was in design and construction for approximately 5 months. We host a completely automated website and deposit tracking system and security (both on site and ingame) are our biggest priority. We host a large board of directors and very specific limitations on the amounts of funds one can have access too. As I am the character that recieves the deposits (and the CEO/Founder) I am generally the one with the most access. In the event that I scammed EBANK, I might be able to net approximately 150 billion isk. This is about 9% of the value of EBANK. The idea behind EBANK is that in the event of a scam the bank itself can take on the loss and continue to operate. Take a look at our annual report here. It's a 26 page document but it's a really good read. Read your document, will look into Ebank in the future! :) =----------= Semper Fi
ShardowRhino Caldari Legion 0f The Damned	Posted - 2008.11.17 05:13:00 - [19] Originally by: ouroboros trading Originally by: AkRoYeR Why would anyone trust a virtual bank for a long time anyway. Eventually some pirate will take it all, it's happened before and will happen again. Withdraw while you can, the end is near! STOP TRYING TO CAUSE A RUN ON EBANK YOU FILTHY COMMIE REDISTRIBUTIONIST Obama where?!?!?
Bloody Rabbit Jita Miners	Posted - 2008.11.17 05:28:00 - [20] Originally by: EBANK Ricdic In the event that I scammed EBANK, I might be able to net approximately 150 billion isk. This is about 9% of the value of EBANK. The idea behind EBANK is that in the event of a scam the bank itself can take on the loss and continue to operate. Take a look at our annual report here. It's a 26 page document but it's a really good read. The only way I see Ebank scamming is it all the directors got together and did it, not going to happen or someone slips a keylogger in on the web site and steals the account names and PS which is illegal in most countries. BTW the second one is the only way I see EBank failing fast and hard, I do see EBank falling apart over time as its a monster with all the work that the people do for free(don't tell them its a game, they might quit).

Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.11.17 06:05:00 - [21] Originally by: Bloody Rabbit Originally by: EBANK Ricdic In the event that I scammed EBANK, I might be able to net approximately 150 billion isk. This is about 9% of the value of EBANK. The idea behind EBANK is that in the event of a scam the bank itself can take on the loss and continue to operate. Take a look at our annual report here. It's a 26 page document but it's a really good read. The only way I see Ebank scamming is it all the directors got together and did it, not going to happen or someone slips a keylogger in on the web site and steals the account names and PS which is illegal in most countries. BTW the second one is the only way I see EBank failing fast and hard, I do see EBank falling apart over time as its a monster with all the work that the people do for free(don't tell them its a game, they might quit). Staff members get paid ISK, if I recall its 150 million per month with the potental of up to a 500 million bonus.
Polly Prissypantz Dingleberry Appreciation Society	Posted - 2008.11.17 06:45:00 - [22] eBank = Biggest. Ponzi scheme. Ever. Those who forget the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it. It may not happen today, it may not happen tomorrow, but it will happen. Enjoy your ISK while you still have it, suckers.
Stealing Honest	Posted - 2008.11.17 07:01:00 - [23] Edited by: Stealing Honest on 17/11/2008 07:01:02 How much isk was stolen in the last Bank Scam? Wasn't it 700 billion or so? How maybe GHSC members are working thier way into this one?
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.11.17 07:02:00 - [24] Originally by: LaVista Vista Runs on the bank makes me cry Just get a bucket and prepare for the diarrhea of ISK that's about to come out My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2008.11.17 07:14:00 - [25] Originally by: Polly Prissypantz It may not happen today, it may not happen tomorrow, but it will happen. Enjoy your ISK while you still have it, suckers. Its interesting people said the same thing as we reached our 50b landmark, then our 100b landmark, then our 500b landmark. Further, these same people were absolutely certain that 1 trillion isk would be our scam point. Like come on, it's a huge number and can't be topped!!. But wait, we are now moving towards 1.5 trillion at a high pace and will keep going in that direction. Usually the naysayers or ones saying we will scam are those who are scammers, teenagers or people without morals. People who would backstab their friends for personal gain in an instant. I don't pirate, I don't hide my mains and alts (search Ricdic ingame) and myself and the EBANK team see a far bigger picture than some fairytale endgame scam which would in turn cause a person to quit Eve anyway. A lot of those who have done large scams have quit Eve. Not because of personal shame but simply because there was nothing else to do. They had (in their minds) won Eve. PvP was no longer fun as loss wasn't laced with fear and adrenaline. Mining, missions, trading was pointless as they had more cash than they could ever need. So, they quit Eve. Some were stupid enough to attempt to sell on EBAY. Their rumored 700b scams may have netted them enough to buy a 1997 Toyota Corolla before CCP shut them down. A scam is not an achievement in Eve. Proving every naysayer wrong is the true achievement. Unfortunately the only time we will ever be able to truly prove our legitimacy will be the day we close shop and repay all customers. Therefore, we just keep on chugging along, we focus on brand awareness, consistency and quality of service.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.11.17 07:56:00 - [26] Originally by: Jacob Mei Staff members get paid ISK, if I recall its 150 million per month with the potental of up to a 500 million bonus. That was true for the first year. We are reworking that to make it participation based. But yes, it's fundmentally right so far. It's subject to change however. The standard payout will be lower. We don't want to risk the integrity of the bank if we pay out too much ISK in wages
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.11.17 07:58:00 - [27] Originally by: Polly Prissypantz eBank = Biggest. Ponzi scheme. Ever. Those who forget the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it. It may not happen today, it may not happen tomorrow, but it will happen. Enjoy your ISK while you still have it, suckers. Ponzi scheme? WHAT? Have you seen our annual report? We have people working with 8 characters doing work for EBANK in order to make ISK. You can even see what we have invested ISK into if you look on the forum. It's really not hard to find. Also, tell the people whom we have given out loan to, that it's a ponzi scheme.
All Knowing Eyes of Justice	Posted - 2008.11.17 08:02:00 - [28] Originally by: Stealing Honest Edited by: Stealing Honest on 17/11/2008 07:01:02 How much isk was stolen in the last Bank Scam? Wasn't it 700 billion or so? How maybe GHSC members are working thier way into this one? Wait, how are they working their way into this one? Simple, they're already there :D Don't you know the main director is a Tyraxx alt? :)
Trebor Locke Gallente Round Table Enterprises Leather Rose Syndicate	Posted - 2008.11.17 08:02:00 - [29] Edited by: Trebor Locke on 17/11/2008 08:05:04 In economics, you have every right to be scared. There is no way you can assure total trust in the EBANK system. With this in mind, according to modern economic theory, the lack of trust makes it too much of a danger to invest in. Anyone who has been to an ECON 101 class would recognize this problem. You can test it by throwing a little money in and then getting it back but, even with that, the EBANK shouldn't have gained this much trust in the first place. There is no form of insurance in case of loss (even though Ricdic has stated he could only obtain 9% of the funds if he decided to steal). The 9% possible loss stated would actually be a huge hamper on whoever wants their cash. The reason? Because the EBANK (Like the REAL BANKS in REAL LIFE are having right now) would simply collapse on itself as it would have to (to keep good faith) report to its customers that ISK was stolen (or for the real banks, that the money they said they had didn't exist because of faulty policies). What happens as a result? You have a financial collapse. Everyone, to assure their money is safe, would make a withdrawl from the EBANK before it could recover (As what happened on the stock market) and it would either hurt for business or go away completely with debt owed to its customers (who are promised their ISK back as a result of the EBANK agreement). The lesson i'm trying to get through? EIB made off with hundreds of billions of isk doing the EXACT same operation. Have a nice day :) -------------- CEO of Round Table Enterprises Chairman of the Leather Rose Syndicate Your friendly economic management and trade orginization.
Verx Interis Amarr Aurora Security Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2008.11.17 08:03:00 - [30] Originally by: ramification It's worth pointing out that EBank's interest rate of 3%/month is tiny compared to the amounts you can get by investing the same isk in normal trading. That's not to say it's a scam, just that they're obviously in business for the same reason that real banks are in business. It has almost no effort needed though. Your bad loan management perfectly strikes the stock market, wrecking for -777.68 points. A.SEC is recruiting



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