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EBANK SentryRaven Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:20:00 - [151] Originally by: KIAEddZ Edited by: KIAEddZ on 18/11/2008 16:41:57 I would trust Ebank with every ISK I own in game, which is a lot more than most.... in fact I already do. EDIT: I have met quite a few of Eve Bank guys in real life, they are a good bucnh of guys with a genuine passion for the game, AND any single man scam could only pick up about 6% of total asset, which is easily covered by their own monies... Safe as houses tbh. waves at Eddz
Banni Vinda Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.18 23:46:00 - [152] This is quite a refreshing change: A thread that has got to 6 pages, and is actually a decent discussion without (too much) trolling/flaming. :) I'm one of the EBANK Directors. I'm not an anonymous alt. One of the most important things to me about EVE is the people I've met playing it over the past 4 years. Real people, many of whom I now call friends. Like LaVista Vista, I was at fanfest this year, and will almost certainly be there next year as well. If it were not for the fact that our staff is split across several continents, I'm sure even more of us could have made it to Fanfest this year. Maybe next year... Some people claim that everyone has a price. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. All the ISK in EVE would be useless to me if it cost me the friendships I have built up over the years. As Ricdic said above, the only point we can ever prove 100% that we are legitimate is the day we close down and all our customers withdraw their funds, and not a single person will be able to say they lost money to EBANK. (Apart from the ones who never opened an account, and so lost out on potential interest :p).
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2008.11.19 00:07:00 - [153] Originally by: KIAEddZ Safe as houses tbh. Houses were part of cause of the current global credit crunch... Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas	Posted - 2008.11.19 09:24:00 - [154] Some of you may remember the older movies where bankers were portrayed in a less-than-favorable light. After spending some time working at a bank in rl, I can attest they had it right back then. Banks trick people out of their money. (read: scam) Sure if you read the fine print and follow all the rules then you won't pay any fees and fines. But the fact is the vast majority of banking income comes from fees and fines, so most people don't avoid them. They target the elderly, the under-educated, and those with habitually bad spending habits, and do their best to sell them banking products that will generate fees, fines, and penalty income later on. so yea, if EBANK is a bank, it's a bad thing. Do yourself a favor, if you already haven't, and find yourself a credit union (in real life). As far as eve goes, why on earth would you risk giving your money to someone for 3% interest... Seriously? That's like saying you can't go buy tritanium for 3.00 isk and sell it somewhere else for 3.09 isk. Onoes, too hard! If you do give ( or have given ) isk to EBANK you have no guarantee you'll get your isk back. They could easily use isk from the deposits to give back as "interest" to drive a false sense of security which would bring in MORE DEPOSITS... to the fella that said they have a TRILLION isk ... so they couldn't possibly be scammers or they would've already absconded with the isk... They could be spending it now... Depending on new deposits coming in to pay out interest on the existing deposits. If the cash cow is still producing, why kill it? WHy settle for a Trillion, when you could get 2 or maybe 3? Let it ride until the deposits no longer come in fast enough to cover the interest payments... And even then, send some apology letters, make up a story... we've over extended our investments... or we had a couple large customers cash out to buy a titan.. and please wait a few days extra for your interest ( that will one day not come ). I'm not saying EBANK is a lie. But you can't prove to me it's not.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.11.19 09:40:00 - [155] Originally by: Ris Dnalor Edited by: Ris Dnalor on 19/11/2008 09:27:25 Some of you may remember the older movies where bankers were portrayed in a less-than-favorable light. After spending some time working at a bank in rl, I can attest they had it right back then. Banks trick people out of their money. (read: scam) Sure if you read the fine print and follow all the rules then you won't pay any fees and fines. But the fact is the vast majority of banking income comes from fees and fines, so most people don't avoid them. They target the elderly, the under-educated, and those with habitually bad spending habits, and do their best to sell them banking products that will generate fees, fines, and penalty income later on. so yea, if EBANK is a bank, it's a bad thing. Do yourself a favor, if you already haven't, and find yourself a credit union (in real life). As far as eve goes, why on earth would you risk giving your money to someone for 3% interest... Seriously? That's like saying you can't go buy tritanium for 3.00 isk and sell it somewhere else for 3.09 isk. Onoes, too hard! If you do give ( or have given ) isk to EBANK you have no guarantee you'll get your isk back. They could easily use isk from the deposits to give back as "interest" to drive a false sense of security which would bring in MORE DEPOSITS... to the fella that said they have a TRILLION isk ... so they couldn't possibly be scammers or they would've already absconded with the isk... They could be spending it now... Depending on new deposits coming in to pay out interest on the existing deposits. If the cash cow is still producing, why kill it? WHy settle for a Trillion, when you could get 2 or maybe 3? Let it ride until the deposits no longer come in fast enough to cover the interest payments... And even then, send some apology letters, make up a story... we've over extended our investments... or we had a couple large customers cash out to buy a titan.. and please wait a few days extra for your interest ( that will one day not come ). But it will buy them a few more days or weeks and that might just net them an extra 20 billion or so scammed, eh? I'm not saying EBANK is a lie. But you can't prove to me it's not. Sorry. I'll be totally blunt here: You OBVIOUSLY haven't done your research.
Julius Rigel House Rigel	Posted - 2008.11.19 09:50:00 - [156] Originally by: Ris Dnalor He's a Chewlies Gum representative!!!!
SentryRaven Sentry Security	Posted - 2008.11.19 09:50:00 - [157] Edited by: SentryRaven on 19/11/2008 09:51:40 Originally by: Ris Dnalor I'm not saying EBANK is a lie. But you can't prove to me it's not. AFAIK, we could. :) We have logs of every teller transaction, of every deposit with EBANK Ricdic and even our projects could produce every log for sales/purchases or transactions taken there, if we asked for them in detail. Every investment we make during a year can be tracked down, there are 15 people in EBANK who are doing their very best to make sure everything is logged that can be logged. IF we wanted, we could lay open to you how every ISK of our annual profit came to be, however.... as you have worked with a bank in RL already, no bank would do that and neither are we intending to do that. I am sorry to hear that you are not convinced of EBANK being a legit and honest bank, but as it has been said previously: "If you don't trust it, don't give your money to it." There is plenty of opportunities to make more than EBANK's 1.5% interest per month with a little bit of wit, labor and endurance on the markets, however it is up to the players and our customers to decide how they let their ISK work for them. Either by themselves or by proxy... EBANK. Originally by: LVV Sorry. I'll be totally blunt here: You OBVIOUSLY haven't done your research. True as well.
Silver Night Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2008.11.19 10:03:00 - [158] Seems like there are more 1 man corp trolls saying it is likely to be a scam. But really, if you don't know if you would trust EBank, try doing the research and maybe talking to a few of the participants in the EBank channel before you come here and say things that make you look a bit foolish. I've played for 5 years, I'm the CEO of my corporation, and I'm lazy. I put my excess money in EBank so it does something while I don't need it for anything. I've already put in my time trading, manufacturing, ratting, missioning (9.3 faction standing, thanks), and now I PvP, and thanks in part to EBank, I don't need to take time out from that to grind for ISK. I've moved billions through EBank with no problem. It is a product for people who have money they aren't using. If I had a choice between 1% interest and having the money sit in my wallet, I would still send that money to EBank. I trust them more than I trust myself not to go on a spending spree.
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas	Posted - 2008.11.19 10:05:00 - [159] showing me your logs and records doesn't prove anything. first, I would have no way of realistically verifying what you gave me was real. second, and more importantly, logs of what you've done with the isk mean nothing if you plan to steal it in 2 years from now once it can be converted into enough rl cash to retire upon (in rl). Of course I won't give you my isk, because I can make more isk with my isk than I would ever get from you in interest. That's really the point. You offer little in the way of interest, and absolutely nothing in the way of security. It's not your fault that you don't offer any security, eve simply wouldn't allow you to, even if you wanted to. Even if you are trustworthy, that can't be proven. The sad thing is that people will trust you. Just spend an hour in Jita and watch the people in local throw their isk away. If that still happens after 5 years to such an obvious scam, then what hope will people have of resisting something so well thought out as this EBANK? Even if you don't steal their isk, you're still giving them less of a return than they could make themselves... It would be easy to say they deserve what they will get... evolutionary economics! , but really, it is taking advantage of people on a fundamental level... and the end result is that a few people get a free ride... and thus the same type of behavior will be inspired in others. whichever. I won't besmirch your thread anymore. Let the marketing resume. I'm sure you'll do very well, and your wallets will get fat, regardless of whether you run a 'legitimate' bank or not... as if bankers are ever poor... tralala Ris Dnalor -- Quote: "Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are people who want crops without ploughing the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning; they want the ocean without the roar of its many waters. The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand; it never has and it never will." -- FREDERICK DOUGLASS Lastly,
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.11.19 10:13:00 - [160] Originally by: Ris Dnalor first, I would have no way of realistically verifying what you gave me was real. So you don't think the EVE API is a trust-worthy source? Get out troll . Also, cashing our ISK for RL money is illegal. I doubt it's even possible anymore with the secure GTC trading.

SentryRaven Sentry Security	Posted - 2008.11.19 10:17:00 - [161] Originally by: Ris Dnalor Even if you don't steal their isk, you're still giving them less of a return than they could make themselves... It would be easy to say they deserve what they will get... evolutionary economics! , but really, it is taking advantage of people on a fundamental level... and the end result is that a few people get a free ride... and thus the same type of behavior will be inspired in others. Dear Sir, I think you are missing the point that our customers simply do not wish to use the money themselves, but rather have other people work with it. And of course, our interest rate is less than our ROI on our projects, otherwise there would be no point in running a business, would there? In any case, thank you for showing interest in EBANK and participating in the dicussion. We are keen to discuss our bank with its supporters as well as critics.
SSgt Sniper Gallente MAIDS	Posted - 2008.11.19 10:31:00 - [162] Originally by: Daquaris There is quite simply no reason on earth not to steal all the money at a certain point, and, every reason to do so. C'mon, let's be honest with ourselves, if you had let's say.... 3 tril in the corp coffers, in front of you, and, no real deterrent to keep you from running off with it... wouldn't you? No. Then again, I've spent my years in EVE trying to better those around me. Not Rip them off quick as I can.
ouroboros trading Gallente Medics On Fire	Posted - 2008.11.19 10:42:00 - [163] a question to ebank: do you facilitate secure 3rd party transactions (for a % of course)? for mothership/titan sales, gambling bets, duel wagers, etc? so many people are attacking ebank for it's potential to scam, something that's potentially inherant in everything and everyone, when infact Ebank's existance may actually make eve more secure. The rate of intrest may be minor compared to what an active trader makes (though most player traders enjoy no protection from loss by simply having massive capital), but if there is an additional featureset then putting money with Ebank may not be simply about a % :)
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2008.11.19 11:04:00 - [164] Originally by: ouroboros trading do you facilitate secure 3rd party transactions (for a % of course)? for mothership/titan sales, gambling bets, duel wagers, etc? I actually brokered a 70b transaction between two parties this morning. We are happy to consider these kinds of things when approached however we wont advertise it as a service. We have too much respect for Chribba to try and steal his business away. Quote: but if there is an additional featureset then putting money with Ebank may not be simply about a % :) As above we won't be doing it in 3rd party brokering. Instead we will be launching merchant services (think paypal) and a highly operational stock exchange.
RaTTuS BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.11.19 11:26:00 - [165] Ebank Ricdic - could you edit your ingame bio so it say something useful ;-P i.e with hoy links to the bank etc...
RaTTuS BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.11.19 12:36:00 - [166] also there are some character generated for Impsonating you Recdic i.e. EBANK RICDC EBANK Ridic so you may want to make sure about who people send isk to ...
EBANK SentryRaven Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2008.11.19 13:02:00 - [167] Originally by: RaTTuS also there are some character generated for Impsonating you Recdic i.e. EBANK RICDC EBANK Ridic so you may want to make sure about who people send isk to ... Thank you for bringing it to our attention, we will investigate and petition right away. ---- ------------------------------------- SentryRaven - Forum Manager
Imperius Blackheart Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.19 13:44:00 - [168] I've been an EBANK customer since early on in its formation, I consider some of its Directorship friends and Ricdic gave me a heads up when they started. I've made use of both their deposit and loan facilities and trust them completely for what its worth. People might complain that the interest is low but I often find myself with billions that I cannot utilise and I always make sure any spare ISK I'm not needing or I'm unable to use is placed in one of my accounts simply because it makes more sense than having it sit around not working for me and I recommend all my friends do the same. I'm of the opinion that if you have ISK your not using EBANK is the best place to put it. Imp.
TheVad Amarr Metalworks	Posted - 2008.11.19 14:20:00 - [169] Many of the nay sayers are missing the point that EBANK is meant for those looking for a passive investment (earning isk on their isk without working). EBANK, like other secondary market offerings (IPO's Bonds, etc), are all passive investment opportunities. Of course active money (money you invest into your own business) will produce greater ROI then passive investments. This is referring to the checking service it offers. Newer or less wealthy players may not realize that as your wealth grows, there is less and less things you can invest in and you find it very hard to reinvest your entire cash flow. Thus the secondary market exists to help people find ways to do this. Any passive investment will require trust on the individual or corporation youÆre investing in. EBANK just happens to be one of the less riskier secondary market investments and therefore the reason why they have so many customers. The risk level that people use in deciding to deposit money into EBANK is based off the reputation of the individuals running it, EBANKÆs track record, willingness to allow CCP and/or a trusted 3rd party auditor to audit the business, and the time invested to make the whole operation run (coders, tellers, loan officers, new letter development, PR, etc.. 1000Æs of hours have been and continue to be put into creating and running EBANK. . TheVad Project Manager & Chief Editor\| www.eve-bank.net
SencneS Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2008.11.19 15:27:00 - [170] There is two things I say to people when they ask me "What is EBANK or why use it?" 1) EBANK is an entity that manages ISK to pay interest and itself at the same time. We make no bones about saying "Make ISK for itself" we have had between 70B and 120B profit made off the ISK people have deposited into EBANK. That's profit too, that's after considering all deposits and interest accumulated. The profit goes to things like scam recovery, if EBANK made an investment that turned out bad. We would use that profit to recover the lost ISK, bad loans and defaults, anything that causes EBANK to lose ISK. We also pay ourselves to manage deposits, no one can fault us for doing that. We have paid ourselves about 1/8th the total profit, the rest is toward growth and loss recovery. We still have about 70B on hand. The second thing I say is:- Don't see it as an investment, you'll always make more buying/selling trit in Jita. However, if you go on vacation, plan on not playing for a long time, have ISK you just can't use anywhere. Then EBANK is for that ISK, that's what you use it for. It's true we are going to offer a LOT more features in which people will use more often but at the moment it's just a place you can store ISK and get low return on. The most unfortunate thing of all is the only way to guarantee it's not a scam to those would think otherwise, is the day EBANK closes it's doors and returns all deposits with interest to the account holders. Call it whatever you like, but the day EBANK closes down and does just that you just have use your gut feeling. Don't let anyone sway you one way or the other. As an EBANK Director it's my job to represent EBANK and show the EVE community what we're about. We don't force anyone to use EBANK, all we can do is say what we stand for, what we do and how we do it.

Liranan M'8'S Frontal Impact	Posted - 2008.11.19 15:28:00 - [171] Edited by: Liranan on 19/11/2008 15:29:35 I read the 26 page report and I am impressed. For a scam you sure put a lot of effort into it. I should stop trolling COAD and read this and the market thread more often (COAD is fun sometimes). Can someone post the link to the EBank site please? I'm really tired and about to fall of my chair. I typed in 'EVE bank' in google and guess what the first link was? I am really tired and going to bed before I look like an even bigger fool.
Thudin	Posted - 2008.11.19 15:28:00 - [172] LOL, wow, this scam is gonna be good when it finally hits. Can't wait!
AkRoYeR Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.19 15:42:00 - [173] It is truly sad to see that people are still fooled even by the best of "legitimate" plans. They forget that this is a game made up of pirates.
Athre Minmatar The Higher Standard	Posted - 2008.11.19 15:58:00 - [174] Originally by: Liranan Can someone post the link to the EBank site please? I'm really tired and about to fall of my chair. EBANK
SencneS Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2008.11.19 16:19:00 - [175] Edited by: SencneS on 19/11/2008 16:19:18 Originally by: AkRoYeR It is truly sad to see that people are still fooled even by the best of "legitimate" plans. They forget that this is a game made up of pirates. Spoken like a true pirate. I've never really enjoyed going out and killing something. I am very much drawn to the Industrial side of EVE. Yes my toons training would have you believe otherwise... or would it... I have a motto for my "Main" the one I use to fly around in, run mission, explore etc. Never train for anything above a Battle Cruiser class hull, never train any Electronic Warfare that, jams, scrambles, disrupts or reduce tracking speed or turret range, even weber. This is my In-EVE Main (It claims old, however I did send the data to In-EVE, I wonder if it's because that was when I stopped training that particular character and am training an alt on that account.) As you can see I do not have any electronic warfare apart from one thing... Target Painters. And what does that do? Makes the target ship's Signature larger, all it does is help me hit the targets, it doesn't prevent anyone from doing whatever they would normally be able to do. Just because you don't play EVE any other way then being just a Pirate doesn't mean everyone else is exactly the same way. How very narrow minded of you.. Edit:- Fixed Link
Thudin	Posted - 2008.11.19 16:22:00 - [176] Edited by: Thudin on 19/11/2008 16:23:03 He is very narrow minded...invest your money in EBank now, you will get billions of ISK in return.
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.11.19 16:24:00 - [177] For those who say its a Scam consider this for a moment: They have spent over 300 USD on the first year for their site out of their own pocket. They recieved donations for their site for the second year, again 300 USD so in total they have spent 600 USD on the site alone. Several of their representitives were at Fanfest spending their time handing out information about EBANK, consider the price of the round trip to iceland for some individuals. Every time someone or someones says its a scam they spend a great amount of time to explain in detail how things work. They could quite easily go the "be silent" route and not give any information. Lord knows they have repeated themselves several times already in this thread alone. They have been in service for over a year and have lost and brought in new people. Heck one individual from what I recall left on less than ideal terms with them and still said EBANK is not a scam (they could have easily said it was just for spite but they didnt). If this were a scam, they would have put 600 USD into the site and lord knows how much for the fanfest tickets, spent countless hours explaining in detail how their bank works to those who contantly call it a scam not to mention the hours spent building the program they use to read the API key and properly give out the revelant information, create the accounts and so forth. If you think all this time, effort and real world money is worth over one trillian split 15 ways in currency that has no monitary value what so ever (hell the icelandic dollar is worth more than ingame isk atm!) then to be honest your an idiot.
Thudin	Posted - 2008.11.19 16:30:00 - [178] So you think because someone spends hundreds of dollars on a game that they will not try to scam people? And I am the idiot...okay.
Emywn Vanya Caldari Redemption or Retribution Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.19 16:39:00 - [179] No, you are a troll Go away and pod yourself and save the rest of us from your genius
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.11.19 16:45:00 - [180] Edited by: Jacob Mei on 19/11/2008 16:46:06 Originally by: Thudin So you think because someone spends hundreds of dollars on a game that they will not try to scam people? And I am the idiot...okay. Money, effort and butt load of patience. The average scammer spends 15 USD a month and maybe a few days worth of time to scam someone out of their money. If EBANK were a scam they would have spent 600 USD on top of their subscription fees for their accounts and the entire group would have to be so commited to the scam to log on daily to take care of withdrawl requests. The amount of time, effort and everything in between to me does not show that all this work would be worth the price of having to abandon all their characters linked to EBANK (which is all the training time lost), have to start over with their rep and the effort put into making EBANK just so they can say "We stole 1 trillian isk, we won eve, now we have nothing to do."



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