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Master Han
The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency
The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.16 12:50:00 -
[1]
First off, I would like this thread to be about what changes you would like to see for the certificates system. Not a whine about needing 5 ranks for a cert, they called 'Elite' for a reason.
Changes put forth in other threads that have merit:
1) Rights for only corp/alliance members to view certs.
2) Specialized certs for racial drone skills.
3) Specialized certs for remote transfer/boosting.
4) Specialized certs for each racial type ECM.
5) Remove shield skills from armor tank/visa versa.
6) Individual certs for salvaging, hacking, and archeology professions.
7) Mining drones need their own cert, not a pre-req for ice cert.
8) Separate the different leadership warfare specializations.
Not needed but would be nice:
A) COSMOS certs.
B) Add certs for the social skills (help PVE corps find members).
C) Add certs for each racial invention area.
D) Certs for Corporation Management.
E) Learning certs, just to show how Elite you are w/ max learning. |
Marine HK4861
Caldari
Radical Technologies
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Posted - 2008.11.16 13:08:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Master Han
4) Specialized certs for each racial type ECM.
8) Separate the different leadership warfare specializations.
I'm not sure why you need different certificates for each flavour of ECM (LADAR, RADAR, Gravimetric and Magentometric) as all you'd do is fit a different module which uses all the same skills.
If you meant each racial type of ewar, then this is already in the game: ECM Operator, Target Painter Operator, Sensor Damper Operator and Tracking Disruptor Operator cover all 4 racial ewar types.
Again, the 4 leadership specialisations are separated into the various 4 chief certificates (Armoured, Information, Skirmish and Siege).
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2008.11.16 15:11:00 -
[3]
How about
REMOVE MULTI-TASKING FROM ALL CERT REQUIRMENTS
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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Sazkyen
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Posted - 2008.11.16 15:53:00 -
[4]
You basically want perks like the ones in Fallout.
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Kilrex
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Posted - 2008.11.16 16:24:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Ghoest
How about
REMOVE MULTI-TASKING FROM ALL CERT REQUIRMENTS
I can see multi-tasking for Core Targeting Elite and for Logistics ships. The more targets you can hold, the easier I find combat. And a good Logistics pilot should have as many friendlies as possible targeted.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente
Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2008.11.16 18:11:00 -
[6]
Basically I think there should be more granularity of certificates, which should help with higher-end skills requiring silly things. |
Master Han
The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency
The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.16 18:57:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sazkyen
You basically want perks like the ones in Fallout.
Huh? I just want more...
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Hoshi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.16 21:24:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kilrex
Originally by: Ghoest
How about
REMOVE MULTI-TASKING FROM ALL CERT REQUIRMENTS
I can see multi-tasking for Core Targeting Elite and for Logistics ships. The more targets you can hold, the easier I find combat. And a good Logistics pilot should have as many friendlies as possible targeted.
Multitasking is already a requirement for Standard level of both Core Targeting and as a consequence Core Competency. So if you don't get it you will be stuck with just Basic level. Note that the majority of ships in eve can't target enough targets to make multitasking useful. For Minmatar every single t1 ship below battleship size have their their targets maxed out with just Targeting 4 and for battleships you still don't need Multitasking, just Targeting 5.
Anyway back on topic.
1. Add Improved level on all certificates. Right now only a small subset have an improved level which results in either the Standard level having too high requirements or Standard having good requirements but the step to the next level (Elite) being to large.
2. Change the UI so there are only 4 tick instead of 5 as there are only 4 levels (or in the majority of cases only 3) OR add an advanced level between Improved and Elite.
3. Fix the ship recommendations, lots of them are so wrong it's not just a difference of opinions on what is needed but more of a bug. Frigate Advanced Rail Turrets for Flycatcher for example (the Flycatcher is a missile ship with 6 launchers, 2 turrets and 3 missile bonuses). |
Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.16 21:48:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Hoshi
2. Change the UI so there are only 4 tick instead of 5 as there are only 4 levels (or in the majority of cases only 3) OR add an advanced level between Improved and Elite.
or, in case of Remote Detonation cert, it only has basic level.
lol
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.11.17 23:04:00 -
[10]
Each "Profession" and "Race" specialization.
Less generalization, and more specialization. Narrow focus, the way players are doing it now.
Otherwise the system is too complicated, I am afraid, for a new player to even get their head around it.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Rachel Voegel
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Posted - 2008.11.18 14:13:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Hoshi
Multitasking is already a requirement for Standard level of both Core Targeting and as a consequence Core Competency. So if you don't get it you will be stuck with just Basic level. Note that the majority of ships in eve can't target enough targets to make multitasking useful.
This is something that generally needs looking at - many certificates have similar strange requirements. |
Elegbara
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Posted - 2008.11.19 11:00:00 -
[12]
Scientific certificates like 'Hull upgrades inventor' for having Minmatar Encryption, Nanite and Molecular engineering or 'Armor upgrades inventor' for Amarr Encryptions, Nanite, Molecular and Hydromagnetics.
Some certificate to cover Cynosural Field Theory.
Core Fitting Elite requires AWU 5. That's ok. But Core Fitting Improved requires AWU 4 and there's no AWU or even WU requirement for any level below. These should be tweaked.
Also I want leveled ship recommendations: Currently if you check ship info there's 'Recommended' tab with a set of recommended certificates. This is called 'Recommendations Level 0'. It would be nice to see a set of further recommendations once you meet all these ('Recommendations Level 1'). |
Mariokoli Mianana
Gallente
Cloak and Daggers
Ocularis Inferno
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Posted - 2008.11.19 18:18:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Hoshi
2. Change the UI so there are only 4 tick instead of 5 as there are only 4 levels (or in the majority of cases only 3) OR add an advanced level between Improved and Elite.
The fourth, Advanced, level is currently reserved by CCP for future use
Originally by: Hoshi
4. Add Capital ship certifications.
This would be as useful as any other certificate to see in-game if, for example, someone has the skill to pilot a capital ship before letting them into a capital pilots channel. It doesn't need to be much. Even basic certifications for the three tier 1 capitals (Carrier, Dread, Rorq) would be sufficient to start, where basic is can fly, and standard is can siege?
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StarStryder
Zero-Hour
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Posted - 2008.11.19 18:33:00 -
[14]
A history tab like on the skills page.
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Master Han
The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency
The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.20 04:07:00 -
[15]
Originally by: StarStryder
A history tab like on the skills page.
Very good idea. In the same vein, add a line at top (like skills) that states how many certificates you have. And maybe a count for number of each type; i.e. basic, standard, improved, and elite.
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Death's Lolita
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Posted - 2008.11.20 07:47:00 -
[16]
an idea i have had is, as u r already grouping skills together, y no make it like shool. u are already 'learning' skills. and u r getting certificates...so y not, like when u r creating a character, have a major?
covt ops pilot, or marine, or miner, or whatever. so u have a name, and under the 'major' u have all the certificates required for it.
not just core standard, but that i have completed the ----- major and have this----. we already have mining foreman and such....
anyone expand on this? |
Kessiaan
Minmatar
Army of One
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Posted - 2008.11.20 07:52:00 -
[17]
I posted my suggestions here. |
Killer Kelly
Allied Tactical Unit
Brutally Organized Ruthless Gangsters
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Posted - 2008.11.20 11:19:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Death's Lolita
an idea i have had is, as u r already grouping skills together, y no make it like shool. u are already 'learning' skills. and u r getting certificates...so y not, like when u r creating a character, have a major?
covt ops pilot, or marine, or miner, or whatever. so u have a name, and under the 'major' u have all the certificates required for it.
not just core standard, but that i have completed the ----- major and have this----. we already have mining foreman and such....
anyone expand on this?
In a way, we already have this. AS a Caldari Special Forces, my "major" would be missile fire, while a Gallente Special Forces' major would be drones, an Amarr soldier, lasers, any miner, mining, so on and so forth.
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Lockefox
Caldari
Darkmatter Conglomerate
Abyss Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.20 18:54:00 -
[19]
First thing I would employ is Boolean OR. For a lot of trees you would never train all to 5, but perhaps 1 or 2 specialist skills in the tree.
Example: One would never train for ALL the Leadership Mindlinks (okay, I know one guy), so why not make a Leadership Elite cert that read:
-Fleet Warfare: x
-Warfare link: 4 (or 5)
-ANY Leadership spec: 5
-Cybernetics: 5
In this case, you cover a USEFUL goal with a cert. Also, if the program can only handle AND, you can still implement OR's with AND/NOT combos.
This kind of archetecture would be useful for other specialist trees and industry trees.
Lastly, there need to be some general adjustments:
-Multitasking for ELITE certs only please
-Scrapmetal for more advanced certs in refining tree.
-Capital cert trees please.
There's my 2 isk
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Mara Rinn
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.22 12:19:00 -
[20]
One of the refinery foreman certificates (basic?) has 'scrapmetal processing' as a requirement. The next level up of that certificate has 'metallurgy 3' as a requirement, which is a little odd since metallurgy 5 is a prereq for scrapmetal processing.
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Troezar
Fatality.
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Posted - 2008.11.22 12:43:00 -
[21]
I prefer to look past the whole concept entirely. I suspect they added them to encourage people to train more skills they don't stricly need, hence more revenue.
I have over 11mill in gunnery and no Elite certs, that doesn't make me bad at gunnery but might make me want to train a 30+ day skill for 2% if I was anal
They're window dressing time spent "fixing" then will take time spent better elsewhere...
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Mother Sheeana
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Posted - 2008.11.22 12:44:00 -
[22]
1) Rip the code and art out of the game, and replace it with EveMon which is a much better tool for planning a character out.
2) The CCP system is confusing and poorly designed, and seems to miss the boat on reality of what you really need to be good a particular aspect of this game.
3) Finally Eve is a nice testbed for a system that will perfect for a Vampire game, 5 years of people playing the game, lets now wrap our distorted view of Eve to the customers? sure why not? thanks CCP.
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Jonas Cooke
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Posted - 2008.11.22 12:51:00 -
[23]
I'm pretty sure the idea for certs is primarily an "achievement", "trophy" or goal system, not as a guide to say "This is what you'd need to be an effective 'X'"
Though, it could be used as that too, it doesn't nessicarily mean you *have* to follow it to the letter. Like the leadership training, Lockefox mentioned. Just because it says get all the skills to lvl 5, doesn't mean you have to do that, in order to be effective in one part or another.
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Master Han
The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency
The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.22 13:43:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jonas Cooke
I'm pretty sure the idea for certs is primarily an "achievement", "trophy" or goal system, not as a guide to say "This is what you'd need to be an effective 'X'"
Though, it could be used as that too, it doesn't nessicarily mean you *have* to follow it to the letter. Like the leadership training, Lockefox mentioned. Just because it says get all the skills to lvl 5, doesn't mean you have to do that, in order to be effective in one part or another.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Besides the Core skills, I dont see the point in getting most of the elite certificates. But they do make a great bragging right. Most of both my chars main focus areas are in the Standard/Improved range and I am ok with that.
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Patrice Macmahon
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.22 17:20:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ghoest
How about
REMOVE MULTI-TASKING FROM ALL CERT REQUIRMENTS
Multi tasking level 1 allows for maximum number of targets locked in most battle cruisers and destroyers. Multi tasking level 3, allows for maximum locks when under the effects of an auto targeting system.
Auto targeting systems are under rated, they allow for faster mission running under the right condidtions.
From a targeting stand point, it makes sense. You only really need basic targeting (whcih I assume you have), hence why its considered basic. Standard gives you full targets in ships without module upgrades. l33t gives you just that, the extra edge with the right setup.
The Intakis have an obligatin to defend the Federation, but not to assult others on its behalf. |
SharpMango
14th Legion
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Posted - 2008.11.22 19:02:00 -
[26]
getting multi tasking 3 is rather easy, only 3-4 days going from targeting IV to multi tasking iii. so i have no problem with that being a requirement at all.
what i WOULD like to see are some learning certificates placed in. for example getting learning to 5 on basics and 4 on advanced should be considered an improved skill..
perhaps something like this.
5/5s elite
5/4s improved
4/3 standard
As to WHY i would like to see this? its really useful for old and new players alike to see how to develop their learning skills. when i was a new player, i barely understood them and didnt really understand how to develop them properly...
and as someone a couple of weeks away from having 5/4s, i can certainly say that is a BIG moment for any semi-experienced eve player. because at that point we get to stop fretting about learning, learning skills or learning other key skills!
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Jaabaa Prime
Minmatar
Quam Singulari
Warp to Desktop
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Posted - 2008.11.22 21:47:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Jaabaa Prime on 22/11/2008 21:48:40
For starters:
What is a "Harvesting Comptroller" ? Typo ?
And, to and insult to injury, why should an "Elite Tactical Commander" need "Mining Foreman V" (for "Harvesting Comptroller") ?
Aren't these two totally different skill trees, and they all of a sudden "join" at the elite level, WTF ?
So basically, my fix would be to completely separate trades in the certificate tree.
--
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Sven Xai
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Posted - 2008.11.23 19:35:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Sven Xai on 23/11/2008 19:38:12
the harvester skills need to be fixed. Seperate miner certs from refiner certs up to standard or advanced, combining them again for advanced/elite. As is a hulk pilot not into refining so much, barely qualifies for a basic harvester cert. This is due to things like needing refining efficiency to level 5 so you can have bistot processing, just to get a standard cert?
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.11.24 00:39:00 -
[29]
The three purposes of Certificates, in order of importance:
#1
Training Hints for newbies
#2
A tool to help would be recruits advertise what they can do, and to help Player Corp recruiters estimate the usefulness of a potential recruit.
#3
E-peen
Anything that helps certificates help #1 and #2 is good. Helping with #3 is a minor issue, although E-peen can be fun.
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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