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I just lost my golem after QR

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Epidemis	Posted - 2008.11.16 15:13:00 - [1] But this isnt a whine thread. The scatterbrain that I am, I alt-tabbed out and forgot to return.. not having a perm-boosting setup I alt-tabbed back sometime later and saw only the dust of my once glorious golem. But I did not feel any regret at all. Nope. My only regret is right now not really knowing if the golem is still king after the torp/missile changes or I should spec for kronos or nightmare. The few precious moments I got it left me with the impression of total gimpness, torp not having sufficient range anymore, doing 1/3 the stated dmg on a bs (christ, they should atleast have balanced it so that dmg was status que on BS'es /w 1 tp) I will lose like 4 months of training (+2 ghost months) if I decide to switch to nightmare, but I am seriously comtemplating it, I would like some input from other golems uses, specially how the changes in QR has affected you and comparison with the aforementioned ships. I dont want any strictly subjective (lol noob, I still do the same dmg, but hard math calls bull**** on you) opinion but rather hard numbers. Thanks
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2008.11.16 15:26:00 - [2] What do you mean by +2 ghost months? Anyway, I have not noticed much difference in mission completion times. I use light drones more now, and some missions I break out the NH, but on the whole, there isn't much difference for a well-skilled and well-fitted pilot. The low SP players got hurt by this patch. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Diziet Montoya	Posted - 2008.11.16 15:28:00 - [3] Don't believe the whining on forums, missiles are still great for missions. The whiners are all noobs flying Ravens with 1mill skillpoints and they wonder why their dps is bad. The missile support skills are much more important now. Also check out t2 ammo, it's actually worth using.
DuffmanPeter Perpetua Umbra The Last Brigade	Posted - 2008.11.16 15:41:00 - [4] Edited by: DuffmanPeter on 16/11/2008 15:43:55 What mission was this? I do lvl 4s with a cnr and I have never had a single problem except sometimes in EA 5. Your setup must have sucked or you were alt tabbed on a hard mission. Golem is still a great mission runner and will remain.
Dracthera	Posted - 2008.11.16 15:42:00 - [5] If by 'ghost months' you mean you can start a long training skill and cancel your account, you'll be in for a rude surprise when you get back. It was a glitch, which CCP fixed a few patches ago, so now training stops three days after you cancel your account. In any event, don't listen to the gloom and doom scenarios people are suggesting. Ravens, CNRs, and especially Golems are still fine for missioning. Most of the people complaining are those who either didn't have the skills they needed to fly those ships effectively in the first place, or those who are too lazy to think for themselves and figure out how to overcome these new changes in missiles. Adapt and profit.
Epidemis	Posted - 2008.11.16 15:57:00 - [6] Originally by: DuffmanPeter Edited by: DuffmanPeter on 16/11/2008 15:43:55 What mission was this? I do lvl 4s with a cnr and I have never had a single problem except sometimes in EA 5. Your setup must have sucked or you were alt tabbed on a hard mission. Golem is still a great mission runner and will remain. I was alt-tabbed on pirates smuglers! Quote: If by 'ghost months' you mean you can start a long training skill and cancel your account, you'll be in for a rude surprise when you get back. It was a glitch, which CCP fixed a few patches ago, so now training stops three days after you cancel your account. Yes I know, it was deactivated a few weeks ago, I got my caldari BS and marauders V anyway :P
DuffmanPeter Perpetua Umbra The Last Brigade	Posted - 2008.11.16 16:06:00 - [7] To be honest alt tabbing ever on a mission is kind of dumb. I know they are easy but a non perma boosting setup gets you more money for your time. Why are you playing the game in the first place if you are not going to play? If i had a couple months to kill I would go for the golem. It really is an awesome ship. It can salvage, has a great tank and does great damage. Imply or Implode? There are many Duffman, don't tell the children... It's disillusioning!
Lord Zarcam Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.11.16 16:16:00 - [8] Not to slam the OP, but one should never be able to AFK a mission of any type. Hopefully, with a few more changes, players will actually have to play the game while AT the K/B. Sorry you lost your ship, but why play a game while you alt-tab out to do something else? Where's the fun in doing so?
Veryez	Posted - 2008.11.16 18:00:00 - [9] While I agree that torps were overnerfed, I've lost about 3k effective range and need to use a double painter setup. I've found that using a 2xpainter setup allows torps to hit BS moving up to 250 m/s for full pre-QR damage. The double painter helps against cruisers and BC's, they still go down fairly quickly - and even helps your drones w/the frigates (single painting frigates for your drones, although I use t2 lights most of the time). I would like it is torps were balanced so that they could hit battleships for full damage with 1 bonused painter at speeds up to 250 or if they slowed down NPC battleships to match players, so they seem a bit overnerfed to me too, but with good skills the golem still performs very well.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.11.16 18:10:00 - [10] Originally by: Diziet Montoya The whiners are all noobs flying Ravens with 1mill skillpoints and they wonder why their dps is bad. Lol. (I'm at 30mil+ btw, 95% of it dedicated to speeding up missionrunning, and I think they went way overboard with the nerf.) Originally by: DuffmanPeter ...never had a single problem... Lol. (For thinking that's the issue.) Originally by: Lord Zarcam Not to slam the OP, but one should never be able to AFK a mission of any type. I really should break out the lollerskates by now. To OP: Go for Nightmare, it's great in any case and remains the tool of choice for not only Sansha, Blood, Drones and Mercs, but EoM(in Gone Berserk) as well. Haven't tried it against serps yet though, the Golem had it there, might still have it. Wait for more actual reports to come in. Not from people who "don't have problems" or "think everything is fine", or even from people who think "this sucks", but from people who give actual numbers. I've only seen one such Golem report so far, and a couple sig/speed torp damage diagrams. THEN, armed with better, more reliable info, get another Golem, if it really still is as good as "the forums" claim.

Epidemis	Posted - 2008.11.16 20:27:00 - [11] Originally by: Lord Zarcam Not to slam the OP, but one should never be able to AFK a mission of any type. Hopefully, with a few more changes, players will actually have to play the game while AT the K/B. Sorry you lost your ship, but why play a game while you alt-tab out to do something else? Where's the fun in doing so? Are we playing the same game? How do you survive doing missions without alt-tabbing? Well, I wanted a perm-boosting setup, but I havent gotten a deadspace booster. I like to pop out doing other things, while popping back down to acquire a new target, this is how I have fun with EvE online. Anyway, the point of my training to the golem was actually to play more intensely, with salvage-micro and fast target-popping. The moments I got with it, indicated 33% of the tooltip dmg was actually being done to the target BS. Dmg per missile being roughly on par with cruise missiles... on a raven Quote: To OP: Go for Nightmare, it's great in any case and remains the tool of choice for not only Sansha, Blood, Drones and Mercs, but EoM(in Gone Berserk) as well. Haven't tried it against serps yet though, the Golem had it there, might still have it. I would spec for it in a heartbeat, but I kind of like the salvage aspects of the marauders, and I have the level 5 skill for it, thinking of the kronos or perhaps the paladin. Quote: While I agree that torps were overnerfed, I've lost about 3k effective range and need to use a double painter setup. I've found that using a 2xpainter setup allows torps to hit BS moving up to 250 m/s for full pre-QR damage. Well, there goes the perma-boosting setup, 2x painter also seems abit excessive, I agree.
Anna Tilton	Posted - 2008.11.16 21:02:00 - [12] Well if you're looking for numbers, here's some, Golem vs AB Apoc (firing EM missiles so 0 resist), 3xBCU's, Marauder 4, Sig Focus 4, Torp Spec 4, all other missile skills maxed. Apoc 200 m/s (400 sig) (damage per missile) Torps : 0xpainter - 1130.4/ 1xpainter - 1621.2/ 2xpainters - 1736.2 Cruise: 0xPainter - 1102.3/ 1xpainter - 1102.3/ 2xpainters - 1102.3 Apoc 250 m/s (400 sig) (damage per missile) Torps : 0xpainter - 877.2/ 1xpainter - 1259.3/ 2xpainters - 1736.2 Cruise: 0xPainter - 1047.5/ 1xpainter - 1102.3/ 2xpainters - 1102.3 Under 200 m/s you need 1 painter to hit the apoc for full damage, but torps are always better than cruise at low speeds vs BS. Additionally, I now watch speed in the overview, to decide if I need one or two painters. Curisers and BC always get 2 painters. My next experiments will be to see if 2xwebber drones are better than 5 mediums. Anyone having any info on this would be helpful, my initial results don't look promising. Lastly I don't permaboost, I prefer a DPS tank as it lets me run missions faster. When I only have an hour or so to play I prefer to run 2 missions instead of one.
Jennz	Posted - 2008.11.16 21:22:00 - [13] Missioned with a friend yesterday who was in a Golem, he wasn't having any trouble with stuff - didn't need to paint BS, and was still doing a decent amount of damage to frigates when they were painted. Dunno about Raven/CNR users but the Golem is just fine. I suspect a lot of the people moaning have next to no skillpoints in the missile support skills, or drones.
Richie Blackmoore	Posted - 2008.11.16 22:54:00 - [14] I can't fly the golem and have no experience with it but I will give you my thoughts about the patch (as you seem to search for an alternative). I fly a Rattlesnake (aktive and passive) with cruise since about 8 months and my missile skills are below average (I concentrated on other skills and don't need more for PvE). I've never lost the Snake and therefore would never return to a CNR again. I never used painters (just tried but don't need them) and don't see any big differences after the patch, bs go down as before, some even faster and some a lil bit slower (enemies abound 5/5 was easy today, AE bonus I didn't try yet after patch). Cruiser are harder to kill and frigs even more when close BUT the patch woke me up from my PvE dream - first I use now 5 medium AND in addition 5 light t2 drones (exactly 75m3 in my dronebay) which is much more fun and - second, from now on I will skill up my missile skills as every good Caldari should Unfortunately the Rattlesnake is very expensive atm but it is universal too (nightmare isn't much cheaper). Maybe I have no idea of doing real big damage with my ship but your golem skills would make it a beast for sure - try it and fly a ship not everyone does o/ Richie (the alt)
Abyss Wyrm Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.17 00:22:00 - [15] Lol, man, i lost 8 marauders in 4 monthes (neither of which was reimbursed btw, even though none was lost on my fault). And golem have best tank among non-capships btw.
Joss Sparq Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.17 00:25:00 - [16] Originally by: DuffmanPeter Why are you playing the game in the first place if you are not going to play? Some people can perform multiple tasks at once. For all you knew, they could have been running two game clients and alt-tabbed into the other for purposes other than missioning. As for the OP, consider a Nightmare if you consider anything new.
DuffmanPeter Perpetua Umbra The Last Brigade	Posted - 2008.11.17 01:42:00 - [17] @Qui: wtf are you talking about? @Joss: that still doesnt make it a good thing to do. You are still not paying attention so if you lose your ship then it is the players fault. It has nothing to do with the ship and all to do with the player. To be honest the OP is allowed to do whatever he wants but wasting time going for another ship isnt going to change anything. The golem is an amazing ship and a great mission runner. The nightmare is awesome too though but it is on par with the Golem I think overall.
Arakidias Murky Inc. Power Of 3	Posted - 2008.11.17 09:24:00 - [18] The torp-golem is just fine, just fit a second TP for the cruisers.
Oftherocks Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.11.17 10:38:00 - [19] The Golem is still a great ship, and honestly I don't think we've seen the last of missiles being tweaked (I can hope can't I?). But with the current missile mechanics, I think the mission flavor of the month is the NH. The nice thing about the NH is that it can be equipped for a fairly reasonable price, and its tank is one of the best in game. Originally by: Sheriff Jones No, i play hello kitty online and just paid for 5 years to come here and make comments about stuff i know nothing about and Wranglers pants.
Joss Sparq Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.17 11:13:00 - [20] Originally by: DuffmanPeter @Joss: that still doesnt make it a good thing to do. I never said it was.

Epidemis	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:08:00 - [21] Just bought a new golem and I'll go test it as soon as my training to torp 5 finished, then I'm gonna stack target painters until I get 100% dmg.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.11.19 05:58:00 - [22] most of my sp is dedicated to nightmare/paladin. and most of my alts pvp skills are in raven stuff. paly would be too much a pain in the ass against only guristas, where as raven isn't so great against em/thermal. although last I checked my 4 t2 tachs with amarr navy multi, and 3 t2 heatsinks, beat the cal bs 5, cruise 4, cn launchers, t1 ammo, in kill speed on gur/angel bs, really been meaning to put him in a t2 torp golem, but basiclly too lazy to buy the golem and maruader skill, that and we seem to have been at war for the last month or so. not seeing much of a point in that.
Aurora Tagan Epic Army	Posted - 2008.11.19 08:36:00 - [23] Torp Golem? What is this? I'm still using cruise missiles on my one and haven't found any problems, am I missing out?
Umbriele Gallente Insurgent New Eden Tribe Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2008.11.19 15:23:00 - [24] Originally by: Diziet Montoya Don't believe the whining on forums, missiles are still great for missions. The whiners are all noobs flying Ravens with 1mill skillpoints and they wonder why their dps is bad. The missile support skills are much more important now. Also check out t2 ammo, it's actually worth using. Totally agree, I still do high end lvl4 in my torpgolem in 15-30 minutes
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.11.19 20:13:00 - [25] Originally by: Aurora Tagan Torp Golem? What is this? I'm still using cruise missiles on my one and haven't found any problems, am I missing out? techie two torps. dual pithi b-type small shield boosters, hardeners, painter, afterburner 4 bcus missile speed and/or flight time rigs with all level 5, caldari navy torps, faction bcus, and some hammerhead II's it shows 1228 dps out to 40ish km. and I'm not sure how they changed jav torps, so I wont comment on them, but they did good dps out to a very reasonable range for most missions.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.11.19 20:24:00 - [26] Originally by: Anna Tilton Lastly I don't permaboost, I prefer a DPS tank as it lets me run missions faster. When I only have an hour or so to play I prefer to run 2 missions instead of one. thanks for the data, I was about ready to do this exact thing myself and dps tank ftw!


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