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Has anyone found a use for Black Ops yet?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Dimitrios Ypsilanti	Posted - 2008.11.17 07:27:00 - [1] Bought mine six months ago assuming that it was pre-nerfed. Just checking in to see if they're worth anything yet. thx
Stork DK Minmatar Armada.	Posted - 2008.11.17 07:40:00 - [2] Originally by: Dimitrios Ypsilanti Bought mine six months ago assuming that it was pre-nerfed. Just checking in to see if they're worth anything yet. thx Check it yourself.
slothe Caldari Murky Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.17 07:42:00 - [3] paging rajere and waxau...
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.11.17 07:53:00 - [4] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 17/11/2008 07:54:10 Nope, they still suck, and will continue to suck until they get their fuel bay. When they do, they will become decently useful as a mobile jump bridge with a cargo expander fit. They will not become useful combat ships until they get major changes, including the covert ops cloak. The sad truth is without the covops cloak, anything a black ops can do in combat, a carrier can do better and for only a little more ISK (but much better tank to protect your investment).
EYEDOLL Amarr Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.11.17 10:46:00 - [5] They're not too bad if you know their limits and don't try to use them outside of those limits.. And yes they're pre-nerfed and at the very least need a fuel bay but it seems they're "working" at it.
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance	Posted - 2008.11.17 11:04:00 - [6] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 17/11/2008 07:54:10 Nope, they still suck, and will continue to suck until they get their fuel bay. When they do, they will become decently useful as a mobile jump bridge with a cargo expander fit. They will not become useful combat ships until they get major changes, including the covert ops cloak. The sad truth is without the covops cloak, anything a black ops can do in combat, a carrier can do better and for only a little more ISK (but much better tank to protect your investment). I wouldn't mind gimping it damage but giving it a covert ops cloak and big fuel bay. Would be awesome for covert logistics.
dojocan81	Posted - 2008.11.17 11:09:00 - [7] widow = THE perfect cnr carebear buster!!!
Lady Valory Caldari Caldari Strike Force	Posted - 2008.11.17 11:17:00 - [8] We actually found a use for it... In 0.0 when you have an exploration escalation, the follow up plexes are sometimes not that difficult... With the new covert ops blockade runner, you can warp in a gang of black ops and use the blockade runner for the fuel... This lets you put ships close to enemy space, quickly kill the faction spawn, and then get the loot out with less time and less risk... The other use we had was busting enemy mining ops, especially ice mining ops... Cycles on ice miners are so long that many people go afk or to their 2.account, so a quick cyno and boom--bye bye macks and hulks.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.11.17 11:33:00 - [9] Black ops are pretty good if you dont use them for what CCP had in mind and you invest quite some money in them. Dont use the jumpbridge or jump option. When they get a decent (important) fuelbay and a proper reconbonus than they will be good enough to justify regular use in (lowsec/0.0) pvp. With reconbonus i mean: agility bonus --> dampbonus, speedbonus --> webbonus, etc, etc. ** these ing forums, 2e time they eat my post. ing **... _________________________________________________
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.11.17 11:38:00 - [10] Originally by: madaluap Black ops are pretty good if you dont use them for what CCP had in mind and you invest quite some money in them. Dont use the jumpbridge or jump option. Care to elaborate? My Sin is still sitting in my hangar, gathering dust...

Dr Fighter	Posted - 2008.11.17 11:50:00 - [11] BO are usful, just not greatly and no really for what they are intended for (tho im not sure everyone has the same main goal for them anyhow, inc ccp). They are not BS, looking like them is about as close as they get to performing like one. They are at best a BC with some extra random bonuses, half recon half bomber and half... BC. and a very small covert portion titan (portal). Like bombers, they are only usful in few, very well controlled circumstances, be it baiting certain ship types in belts, gate camp support or simply hauling stuff around sneaky cyno style. While im with every other vet out there with too many skills and too much isk to spare, and agree that BO do need a real role/bonus focus, im happy with my widow as it is, setup the way it is, using the way i am - however im afraid that when ccp eventually sort out these ships, they will completly ruin them for the people who have "adapted and not died" in the pre-nerf stage. A VERY BAD WAY TO BE REALSING NEW SHIP CLASSES IMO. /rant
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.11.17 12:05:00 - [12] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: madaluap Black ops are pretty good if you dont use them for what CCP had in mind and you invest quite some money in them. Dont use the jumpbridge or jump option. Care to elaborate? My Sin is still sitting in my hangar, gathering dust... * You can nearly instawarp, you actually warp out faster than if the ship would have a covert op cloak * AB + cloak trick = 10 seconds of decent speed, good for re-aproaching gate (bubbled gate) * 160K+ EHP is obtainable * +- 700 DPS is obtainable * 2 heavy neuts * 2 webs * AB again for moving away from small targets, large guns easily track AF (not joking) What i needs: * Proper bonus, not agility or speed or whatever FFS. Give them reconbonuses. * Proper fuelbay When this happens, they are valuable assets for any empire, lowsec or 0.0 corporation. _________________________________________________
Baudolino Gallente Royal Crimson Lancers	Posted - 2008.11.17 12:10:00 - [13] I own a panther and i have black ops lvl 5 still there is no way I`m fying that ship until they fix those **ing ****ed stats and bonuses.. if it takes too long i`ll sell the ship and spend the isk on tech III ships when they arrive.. imho - black ops should be allowed to jump while cloaked and you should be able to open the covert cyno WHILE cloaked.. a 400% bonus to cloaked velocity per level would also be nice.. and for gods sake- fix the scan resolution.. Black ops are utter crap and i`m growing increasingly concerned that once tech III arrives, fixing them won`t matter anymore..
Warrio Southern Cross Incorporated Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.17 12:17:00 - [14] Originally by: madaluap * You can nearly instawarp, you actually warp out faster than if the ship would have a covert op cloak * AB + cloak trick = 10 seconds of decent speed, good for re-aproaching gate (bubbled gate) * 160K+ EHP is obtainable * +- 700 DPS is obtainable * 2 heavy neuts * 2 webs * AB again for moving away from small targets, large guns easily track AF (not joking) I'm guessing you're getting at using them in a combat role. Wouldn't a faction fitted Abaddon/Maelstrom/Dominix/Scorpion be just as effective for the same cost? sXe
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2008.11.17 12:25:00 - [15] What black ops need to make them do their intended job is to allow them to jump into a system without the assistance of a cyno. Basically they need to be capable of jumping into a system at a random location in that system. Perhaps reducing the range of the jump if you don't use a cyno.
Yoko Lee Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.17 12:30:00 - [16] I have a redeemer and use it for war empire, Black Ops need a real boost.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.11.17 12:31:00 - [17] Originally by: Nian Banks What black ops need to make them do their intended job is to allow them to jump into a system without the assistance of a cyno. Basically they need to be capable of jumping into a system at a random location in that system. Perhaps reducing the range of the jump if you don't use a cyno. That would be pretty cool, actually. If the range (without cyno) was even more limited, it would probably also be balanced -- you could sneak past choke points, but you seriously need to consider fuel logistics.
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari Katsu Corporation	Posted - 2008.11.17 12:35:00 - [18] Originally by: slothe paging rajere and waxau... I was about to say the same...
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.11.17 12:39:00 - [19] Originally by: Nian Banks What black ops need to make them do their intended job is to allow them to jump into a system without the assistance of a cyno. Basically they need to be capable of jumping into a system at a random location in that system. Perhaps reducing the range of the jump if you don't use a cyno. You have my vote sir! Originally by: Warrio Originally by: madaluap Stuff i wrote I'm guessing you're getting at using them in a combat role. Wouldn't a faction fitted Abaddon/Maelstrom/Dominix/Scorpion be just as effective for the same cost? Sounds rather lame for the immense pricetag these blackops have compared to T1 bs, but when i jump into a system i use no scouts so being able to cloak, decloak, instawarp while flying something bs sized is worth a lot to me. They need a proper boost though: EW bonus + proper fuelbay = enough imo.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.11.17 17:05:00 - [20] Wow, now if only a carrier didn't do all of that, and do it far better. Originally by: madaluap * You can nearly instawarp, you actually warp out faster than if the ship would have a covert op cloak * AB + cloak trick = 10 seconds of decent speed, good for re-aproaching gate (bubbled gate) Jump drive + enough fuel to actually use it = no need for reapproaching gates. Quote: * 160K+ EHP is obtainable 1.5 million EHP (10x more) is easily obtainable, with a 5k dps active tank at the same time. Quote: * +- 700 DPS is obtainable 1000 dps is obtainable without even using DCUs. Quote: * 2 heavy neuts Same. Quote: * 2 webs No need for them, drones track just fine. Quote: * AB again for moving away from small targets, large guns easily track AF (not joking) No need, 10x Warrior IIs (with an infinite supply of replacements) kill small ships just fine. ----------- Blaster sig removed for now, pending those "changes we've been working on all day". CCP, don't screw this up.

Bronson Hughes ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2008.11.17 17:59:00 - [21] Black Ops battleships have two uses in my experience: 1. Put a Covert Cyno on your scout CovOps so you can hot-drop recons on a fight. This can make for a nasty suprise, especially if you manage to bait a larger force, but it's only useful in a very limited number of situations due to the range and fuel limitations on the Covert Jumpbridge. 2. Put on a really funky lightshow for a system full of friendlies. Or technically, a 'darkshow'. You have to see it to understand. Any situation that actually involves jumping a BO battleship directly into a combat situation would likely be better served by jumping in a carrier instead. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
baltec1 R.U.S.T. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.17 18:11:00 - [22] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Wow, now if only a carrier didn't do all of that, and do it far better. Originally by: madaluap * You can nearly instawarp, you actually warp out faster than if the ship would have a covert op cloak * AB + cloak trick = 10 seconds of decent speed, good for re-aproaching gate (bubbled gate) Jump drive + enough fuel to actually use it = no need for reapproaching gates. Quote: * 160K+ EHP is obtainable 1.5 million EHP (10x more) is easily obtainable, with a 5k dps active tank at the same time. Quote: * +- 700 DPS is obtainable 1000 dps is obtainable without even using DCUs. Quote: * 2 heavy neuts Same. Quote: * 2 webs No need for them, drones track just fine. Quote: * AB again for moving away from small targets, large guns easily track AF (not joking) No need, 10x Warrior IIs (with an infinite supply of replacements) kill small ships just fine. So you would use a carrier solo in enemy space? Given the option of the two I would take the BO simply because its not going to be found as easily and stands a chance of escaping. It also wont have the problem of being spotted on a scanner and instantly attracting a massive blob
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.11.17 18:25:00 - [23] Originally by: baltec1 So you would use a carrier solo in enemy space? I'd use one solo over a solo black ops, yes. Quote: Given the option of the two I would take the BO simply because its not going to be found as easily and stands a chance of escaping. It also wont have the problem of being spotted on a scanner and instantly attracting a massive blob That's why you hold the carrier somewhere safe, and only jump in once your cyno alt has a target. Jump-out time is going to be better than the black ops, and you have a much better chance of surviving if your target has friends.
baltec1 R.U.S.T. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.17 18:36:00 - [24] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: baltec1 So you would use a carrier solo in enemy space? I'd use one solo over a solo black ops, yes. Quote: Given the option of the two I would take the BO simply because its not going to be found as easily and stands a chance of escaping. It also wont have the problem of being spotted on a scanner and instantly attracting a massive blob That's why you hold the carrier somewhere safe, and only jump in once your cyno alt has a target. Jump-out time is going to be better than the black ops, and you have a much better chance of surviving if your target has friends. very expencive way to kill something. If you had a small pos in the system and assigned fighters to two inties then it would be worth it but realy going solo in a carrier (unless hugging a pos or station) just isnt a good idea. Plus it cant activly hunt things is a hostile system. The BO has a few things going for it that the carrier doesnt, cloak bonuses and size being the biggest, but realy I would just use a pilgrim.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.11.17 18:41:00 - [25] Originally by: baltec1 very expencive way to kill something. If you had a small pos in the system and assigned fighters to two inties then it would be worth it but realy going solo in a carrier (unless hugging a pos or station) just isnt a good idea. Plus it cant activly hunt things is a hostile system. Of course it isn't a good idea, a carrier is best used with support. But given a choice between solo carrier and solo black ops (and nothing else), the solo carrier wins by far. Same scan resolution, better dps, much better tank, much greater ability vs. small targets (except the Sin), much more useful outside of solo-only, and only slightly higher cost. And sure, you can hunt things in a hostile system, you're hunting with a cyno alt. Which is a fair assumption for "solo" PvP, as a black ops needs one too, otherwise it's far worse than a T1 battleship. Quote: The BO has a few things going for it that the carrier doesnt, cloak bonuses and size being the biggest, but realy I would just use a pilgrim. Cloak on a black ops is useless, and size is irrelevant as both ships will take full damage from any sub-capital weapon (and if hostile capitals are involved, you're screwed either way). ----------- Blaster sig removed for now, pending those "changes we've been working on all day". CCP, don't screw this up.
Khandara Seraphim StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.11.17 18:58:00 - [26] Ask Seladrine if his/her black ops is useless... That damn widow has been impossible to catch for weeks now

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2008.11.17 19:00:00 - [27] Black Ops+Covert Portal + Covert Ops+Covert Cyno = Zoom zoom with Transports without anyone knowing Secure 3rd party service ■ Veldspar

baltec1 R.U.S.T. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.17 19:22:00 - [28] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Quote: The BO has a few things going for it that the carrier doesnt, cloak bonuses and size being the biggest, but realy I would just use a pilgrim. Cloak on a black ops is useless, and size is irrelevant as both ships will take full damage from any sub-capital weapon (and if hostile capitals are involved, you're screwed either way). I would hardly call no locking delay and 125% speed boost while cloaked per level useless. Flown correctly you should be able to get out of crappy situtions that a carrier cannot (and most battleships cannot). By size I ment the speed, a carrier is like trying to manover the titanic, get the thing tackled and your screwed and it cannot stop a target from running since it cannot give chase. Fitting wise the BO is not all that bad the only problem is the fuel taking up all the cargo bay meaning you cant get any cap boosters in there if your going yo use its jump drive for anything.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.11.17 19:27:00 - [29] Originally by: baltec1 I would hardly call no locking delay and 125% speed boost while cloaked per level useless. Flown correctly you should be able to get out of crappy situtions that a carrier cannot (and most battleships cannot). It's not a covops cloak, so it's useless for anything but hiding in safespots. There just isn't any plausible scenario for cloaking in combat that doesn't start with "must use a cloak". Quote: By size I ment the speed, a carrier is like trying to manover the titanic, get the thing tackled and your screwed and it cannot stop a target from running since it cannot give chase. Why run away when your best escape plan is your jump drive, which doesn't require aligning?
baltec1 R.U.S.T. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.17 19:43:00 - [30] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: baltec1 I would hardly call no locking delay and 125% speed boost while cloaked per level useless. Flown correctly you should be able to get out of crappy situtions that a carrier cannot (and most battleships cannot). It's not a covops cloak, so it's useless for anything but hiding in safespots. There just isn't any plausible scenario for cloaking in combat that doesn't start with "must use a cloak". Quote: By size I ment the speed, a carrier is like trying to manover the titanic, get the thing tackled and your screwed and it cannot stop a target from running since it cannot give chase. Why run away when your best escape plan is your jump drive, which doesn't require aligning? Manovering while cloaked is a massive tactical advantage in a fight. I use it all the time in my SB to great effect. It not only helps me to get into position and set up traps but in a fleet fight allows me to minimise my exposure to the enemy. It is also most effective at getting me past gate camps and out of bubbles. Its also rather hard to use a jump drive in a bubble.



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