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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
117
   |
Posted - 2012.07.22 23:30:00 -
[841] - Quote
Akita T wrote:The current T2 BPO cost of one unit is 100 mil ISK (out of which 50 mil technetium), while the invented unit costs 160 mil ISK (out of which 70 mil technetium) and the market price is 170 mil ISK.
T2 BPO profit is 7 bil ISK/month, inventor profit per line is 0.6 bil, but can be scaled up to 6.6 bil ISK/month via multiple lines (and a lot more effort).
Now, technetium price gets slashed in half.
T2 BPO production costs fall to 75 mil ISK (out of which 25 mil tech) while invented units cost 125 mil ISK (35 mil technetium). The market price will most likely settle at around 135 mil ISK, maybe a tad bit higher.
T2 BPO profit is now 6 bil ISK/month (1 bil ISK less), while the inventor profit remains the same or even goes up a little bit.
I already know profit for T2 BPO owner is bigger than for inventor.
T2 BPO profit will go up after the buff. It can't drop if production costs drop and everything else stays the same. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1185
|
Posted - 2012.07.22 23:33:00 -
[842] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:That will benefit Inventors more than it will benefit BPO owners.
Actually, prices are generally set by invention, so the most likely scenario is that inventor profit will not be altered much.
Since decreased prices for T2 items doesn't make demand for them go up as much as for similar cheaper items, inventor profits, f they are affected at all, they will ever so slightly go UP, because more inventors will be needed, so inventors that would desire a bit more profit need to be added to the mix to match demand.
Also, for the exact same initial reason, that for all "in demand" items invention actually sets prices, T2 BPO profits will go down with absolute certainty, with no chance whatsoever to go up - the fall in unit sales price will necessarily be greater than the fall in BPO manufacture material costs.
To recap : cheaper T2 components means BPO profit down, invention profit same or slightly up.
Jorma Morkkis wrote:T2 BPO profit will go up after the buff. It can't drop if production costs drop and everything else stays the same.
Everything else DOES NOT stay the same.
In the hypothetical example before, technetium price was halfed, so T2 components that use technetium are cheaper, so price of the T2 item in question drops 35 mil (or a bit less), almost the very same amount by which invention manufacture costs go down because tech is cheaper.
T2 item sell price HAS to go down, because if it doesn't, that's a huge extra profit per inventor, so more will flock in.
The end balance will be either the same or slightly higher profit per inventor, NOT a lot more profit for inventor.
At the same time, while sales price per T2 item drops by roughly 35 mil, T2 BPO manufacture costs go down only by 25 mil, so the BPO owner makes 10 mil ISK less profit per unit compared to before, when tech was twice as expensive, earning 1 bil ISK per month LESS because of it.
Again : cheaper T2 components means BPO profit down, invention profit same or slightly up.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T
http://eve-search.com/stats/Akita_T
T2 BPO poll : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 |
Pipa Porto
462
|
Posted - 2012.07.22 23:38:00 -
[843] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Akita T wrote:The current T2 BPO cost of one unit is 100 mil ISK (out of which 50 mil technetium), while the invented unit costs 160 mil ISK (out of which 70 mil technetium) and the market price is 170 mil ISK.
T2 BPO profit is 7 bil ISK/month, inventor profit per line is 0.6 bil, but can be scaled up to 6.6 bil ISK/month via multiple lines (and a lot more effort).
Now, technetium price gets slashed in half.
T2 BPO production costs fall to 75 mil ISK (out of which 25 mil tech) while invented units cost 125 mil ISK (35 mil technetium). The market price will most likely settle at around 135 mil ISK, maybe a tad bit higher.
T2 BPO profit is now 6 bil ISK/month (1 bil ISK less), while the inventor profit remains the same or even goes up a little bit.
I already know profit for T2 BPO owner is bigger than for inventor. T2 BPO profit will go up after the buff. It can't drop if production costs drop and everything else stays the same.
Well, see, that's where you're an idiot. You're forgetting that this is a competitive market, so the end product price will drop. It will drop by more than the amount that the BPO owner's cost to manufacture will drop, reducing the BPO owner's profits.
Akita just showed you exactly how it works.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
117
|
Posted - 2012.07.23 00:51:00 -
[844] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Well, see, that's where you're an idiot. You're forgetting that this is a competitive market, so the end product price will drop. It will drop by more than the amount that the BPO owner's cost to manufacture will drop, reducing the BPO owner's profits.
Akita just showed you exactly how it works.
Competitive market? Selling at a loss? What? |
Pipa Porto
462
|
Posted - 2012.07.23 01:20:00 -
[845] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Well, see, that's where you're an idiot. You're forgetting that this is a competitive market, so the end product price will drop. It will drop by more than the amount that the BPO owner's cost to manufacture will drop, reducing the BPO owner's profits.
Akita just showed you exactly how it works. Competitive market? Selling at a loss? What?
When did I say anyone would be selling at a loss? You're being intentionally (I hope) stupid by trying to suggest that I did.
The end product price will drop. That drop will be far larger than the drop in the BPO owner's manufacturing cost because the drop in final product price is determined by the drop in an Inventor's manufacturing cost. Akita T explained pretty clearly exactly how that works.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Pleiades Borealis
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.23 07:47:00 -
[846] - Quote
Shaking my big soapy and firm boobs. |
shredgod
Cyberdust Industries
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.23 08:31:00 -
[847] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Q D) How should they be removed?
1. Immediately by returning spent RP and taking the BPO out of game
2. If owning player paid ISK for them the trade should be reverted and ISK returned while original owner is reimbursed with research points
Yeah that's a good idea.....not.
How do you suggest reverting the trade if the person they traded the BPO with no longer has the isk? Should they be put into a negative isk value because of it?
What if there have been two or more trades since then? What then?
I'm sorry but you've not thought this through at all. T2 BPOs are here to stay, like it or not. There's always a thread where people whine about T2 BPOs and I bet it's because they don't own one. |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
105
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 09:53:00 -
[848] - Quote
Who cares if there were more than 2 traders just follow the transaction trail applying negative balances if needs be.
Kugutsumen - My signature insures that my post is always read by an ISD or Dev, does yours? |
Pipa Porto
475
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 09:58:00 -
[849] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Who cares if there were more than 2 traders just follow the transaction trail applying negative balances if needs be.
So create ISK out of nowhere on a massive scale. I thought that was what you were pissed about.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Ore Bunny
Perkone
Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 11:52:00 -
[850] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Who cares if there were more than 2 traders just follow the transaction trail applying negative balances if needs be.
true, but on the other hand who honestly cares about your baby-like moaning?
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1192
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 20:29:00 -
[851] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Who cares if there were more than 2 traders just follow the transaction trail applying negative balances if needs be.
To put it simply, that is borderline impossible to do (huge amounts of ancient logs, not all trades are standard so some of them are a lot more difficult to even realize they happened, let alone determine how high the transaction fee was, if it was even ISK), and even if it wasn't, throwing huge negative ISK balances around (of which you can be sure the MAJORITY of people who handled T2 BPOs will end up having, and that's not a negligible number of players) is an extremely bad thing to do - you might as well claim you want a 25% chance to biomass all characters ever involved with a T2 BPO, because the end result would be pretty much the same. And there would also be a HUGE amount of ISK created out of nowhere equal in total to the sum of negative balances that have been applied.
There is no redeeming quality to this idea.
It's unreasonably hard to implement, and its implementation would result in a lot of bad things.
In other words, not going to happen, absolutely no chance whatsoever.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T
http://eve-search.com/stats/Akita_T
T2 BPO poll : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
118
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 21:13:00 -
[852] - Quote
Ore Bunny wrote:true, but on the other hand who honestly cares about your baby-like moaning?
Oh nice... More T2 BPO owners.
Hulk, Mackinaw and Skiff BPOs will be very good items to have. A lot of profit after Inferno 1.2 hits TQ.
CCP should give more free T2 BPOs. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1192
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 23:02:00 -
[853] - Quote
Are you intentionally playing the village idiot right now ?
I refuse to believe somebody could have the ability to properly write without being able to comprehend something explained in a way that an average smarts tween should be able to understand.
Especially after being given concrete examples with simple numbers.
Technetium alchemy means cheaper tech, which means cheaper T2 components that use tech, which means price of T2 items that use tech goes down by however much the INVENTION manufacture cost goes down, but BPO manufacture cost goes down less than that, which means BPO owners make less profit.
Also, not only are T2 ship BPOs negatively affected profit-wise, BUT ALSO there will be a revamp of mining vessels which actually makes T1 ones more attractive compared to the current situation, so that would also hurt Hulk/Mack/Skiff BPO owners additionally.
So, no, those would not be good items to have.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T
http://eve-search.com/stats/Akita_T
T2 BPO poll : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
540
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 23:07:00 -
[854] - Quote
Just report the troll OP, please, don't feed it
In irae, veritas. |
Pipa Porto
485
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 00:54:00 -
[855] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Ore Bunny wrote:true, but on the other hand who honestly cares about your baby-like moaning?
Oh nice... More T2 BPO owners. Hulk, Mackinaw and Skiff BPOs will be very good items to have. A lot of profit after Inferno 1.2 hits TQ. CCP should give more free T2 BPOs.
If you think they're so great, then buy one.
At the moment, a Hulk BPO earns about 3b in profit a month. (a Scimi BPO, which has a similar profit, is selling for ~190b or 290b). Even assuming the Hulk BPO is worth only 100b on the open market, 3% a month is a terrible return on your 100b ISK investment.
T2 BPOs have never been free. Stop drinking Kuvakei's Kool-Aide.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
119
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 07:04:00 -
[856] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:T2 BPOs have never been free. Stop drinking Kuvakei's Kool-Aide.
Yes they were. Maybe some RP, but that has been easy, no effort income for years until CCP nerfed it recently. |
Pipa Porto
487
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 07:15:00 -
[857] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:T2 BPOs have never been free. Stop drinking Kuvakei's Kool-Aide. Yes they were. Maybe some RP, but that has been easy, no effort income for years until CCP nerfed it recently.
1. Standings weren't as easy to grind then as they are now.
2. Research Agents didn't work the way they do now.
3. They weren't an income source during the Lottery, they were lottery tickets.
4. You don't seem to have any idea how the Lottery worked.
http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=BPC#Historical:_Blueprint_lottery
"In the past, research points were like lottery tickets. So the more research points you had the bigger chance you had of getting some T2 BPO from your research agent. You got more research points for each mission if the skill that is necessary for doing missions was trained higher."
http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Research_agents
"Previously, the primary use for RPs was the GÇ£T2 lottery.GÇ¥ When CCP released a new GÇ£batchGÇ¥ of T2 BPOs, every GÇ£activeGÇ¥ research point in the lottery was a GÇ£ticketGÇ¥ into the lottery. The more tickets you had, the better chance you had to win a T2 BPO.
There was some debate as to how the winner was chosen. Argue among yourselves.
You lost all your RP when you accepted a BPO, and had to talk to the agent again and restart your research. You only lost the RP from the agent that made you the offer; others were not affected."
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
119
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 07:28:00 -
[858] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:1. Standings weren't as easy to grind then as they are now.
Yes, they were easy to get.
Pipa Porto wrote:2. Research Agents didn't work the way they do now.
Go to agent -> accept research project and log off. It has been like that from beginning.
Pipa Porto wrote:3. They weren't an income source during the Lottery, they were lottery tickets.
And more alts you got more likely you got T2 BPOs.
Pipa Porto wrote:4. You don't seem to have any idea how the Lottery worked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY |
Pipa Porto
487
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 07:38:00 -
[859] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:1. Standings weren't as easy to grind then as they are now. Yes, they were easy to get. Pipa Porto wrote:2. Research Agents didn't work the way they do now. Go to agent -> accept research project and log off. It has been like that from beginning. Pipa Porto wrote:3. They weren't an income source during the Lottery, they were lottery tickets. And more alts you got more likely you got T2 BPOs. Pipa Porto wrote:4. You don't seem to have any idea how the Lottery worked. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY
Again, nope, and not Relevant anyway. I'm tired of following you down every little tangent your addled mind takes you to in an attempt to keep the goalposts moving.
If they're too good and should be removed, why haven't you purchased one?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134122&find=unread
20b, Earns 255m Isk/Month profit if fed.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136667&find=unread
7b, Earns 280m ISK/Month profit if fed.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=135167&find=unread
13b, Loses 42m Isk/Month if fed. 
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
105
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 11:07:00 -
[860] - Quote
He says he wants to purchase them with research points not isk. Anyway I call upon CCP to destroy tech 3 manufacture by seeding t3bpo's.
Anyone who defends t2bpo either has access to it's overpowered manufacturing ability or is just plain dumb.
CCP please ruin T3 by seeding T3BPO's. Please destroy Serenity server by dropping gifted items there too.
Kugutsumen - My signature insures that my post is always read by an ISD or Dev, does yours? |
Pipa Porto
488
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 11:16:00 -
[861] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:He says he wants to purchase them with research points not isk. Anyway I call upon CCP to destroy tech 3 manufacture by seeding t3bpo's.
Anyone who defends t2bpo either has access to it's overpowered manufacturing ability or is just plain dumb.
CCP please ruin T3 by seeding T3BPO's. Please destroy Serenity server by dropping gifted items there too.
If they're Overpowered, why haven't you purchased any?
If you want to buy them with RP, go ahead and get in your time machine and do so. You'll be sad to find that that's not how the lottery worked. Anyway, the lottery's been over for 5 years. It's not relevant.
If they're so overpowered that they're ruining inventors, why are inventors making more Isk with less capital investment?
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
119
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 11:21:00 -
[862] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:If you want to buy them with RP, go ahead and get in your time machine and do so. You'll be sad to find that that's not how the lottery worked.
So, how it worked if RP wasn't any part of it? |
Ore Bunny
Perkone
Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 11:28:00 -
[863] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Ore Bunny wrote:true, but on the other hand who honestly cares about your baby-like moaning?
Oh nice... More T2 BPO owners.
Hello there!
how do you feel about that now?
|
Pipa Porto
488
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 11:29:00 -
[864] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:If you want to buy them with RP, go ahead and get in your time machine and do so. You'll be sad to find that that's not how the lottery worked. So, how it worked if RP wasn't any part of it?
1. Please, go to your Junior High English teacher and tell them that they badly failed you and that you would like remedial lessons in sentence parsing.
2. You did not buy BPOs with RP, each RP was a lottery ticket and if one of yours won, you had the option of accepting the offer (wiping your RP with the agent), or hoping for a better BPO.
3. Still not relevant unless you have a time machine. You and Brewlar have as yet shown nothing to suggest that T2 BPOs cause any trouble for Inventors or the game as a whole. You claim that they're overpowered, but when asked why you haven't gotten a piece of that sweet, sweet, overpowered Isk, you whine that you want CCP to give you a time machine instead.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
119
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 12:53:00 -
[865] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:1. Please, go to your Junior High English teacher and tell them that they badly failed you and that you would like remedial lessons in sentence parsing.
English isn't the only language in the world.
You do that just to move goalpost. We all know that you own T2 BPOs. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1195
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 21:39:00 -
[866] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis, Brewlar Kuvakei, you've both kind of given up even trying to sound rational, intentionally "forget" or outright ignore clear-cut comments that directly demolish your arguments and just keep repeating the same things that have been debunked multiple times, and so on and so forth.
I refuse to believe you're idiots with anterograde amnesia, so I'll have to assume you've simply giving up on decently thought-out trolling and reverted to low-class low-effort irrational trolling.
This discussion is no longer useful, because it ceased being a discussion quite a while ago.
We can resume talks as soon as you actually address the issues that maul your opinions in a logical manner. It CAN be done, to some degree, but I won't do your work for you.
Become smarter trolls that are interesting to verbally spar with, or simply buzz off already.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T
http://eve-search.com/stats/Akita_T
T2 BPO poll : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 |
Pipa Porto
491
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 21:44:00 -
[867] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:1. Please, go to your Junior High English teacher and tell them that they badly failed you and that you would like remedial lessons in sentence parsing. English isn't the only language in the world. You do that just to move goalpost. We all know that you own T2 BPOs.
If I owned a T2 BPO, I'd have sold it already. Know why? Because they're terrible investments.
If you think T2 BPOs are overpowered at this point in time, why haven't you bought any?
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
shar'ra matcevsovski
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
110
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 22:10:00 -
[868] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:[quote=Pipa Porto] We all know that you own T2 BPOs.
and we all know that you two DONT own one, nor can afford one, otherwie you wouldnt have this discussion.
I dont believe its a coincidence that its only non-industrialists and kinda bitter new players who see the issues on T2 BPO`s, if you want to talk about prejudices ;) |
Pipa Porto
494
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 02:23:00 -
[869] - Quote
@Jorma and Brewlar,
If you think T2 BPOs are overpowered at this point in time, why haven't you bought any?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136821&find=unread
70b-120b, 700m ISK/Month profit if Fed.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 06:08:00 -
[870] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Sentence parsing is a useful skill in any language.
Oh... we have expert here.
I'd be ready to bet that you can't complete one single sentence in Finnish or Swedish
Pipa Porto wrote:If I owned a T2 BPO, I'd have sold it already. Know why? Because they're terrible investments.
If T2 BPOs are terrible investments then why do they still exists in-game?
Obviously there's something good in them.
- Profit
- Owner dominates market. |
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