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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Cade Morrigan
Caldari The Terrible Secret
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Posted - 2008.11.26 13:26:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Cade Morrigan on 26/11/2008 13:29:09 I have to side with the op on this. While I think MOST missions are easy peasy, there are some that have left me scratching my head.
1) there is no L2 that a well fitted Caracal shouldn't be able to do marginally well.
2) npc missile ranges are f'ing ridiculous right now. I'm skilled out and set up to fire heavies at 120km with a Caracal, but that is no longer survivable tactic because 10 npcs apparently can do it better.
3) the new grouping of npc salvos (patch notes) intended to reduce the firing rate but increase damage per salvo appears to have only done the latter. If anything, npcs are spewing missiles at a higher rate than prepatch.
I'm not a mission noob by any means. I'm not having significant trouble with missions. But the range and RoF for missile spewing npcs looks to be a bit out of whack now. I suspect the reason all of the high sp arses doing L4s are trolling is because the changes don't bring the npcs up to anythng like a challenge for their CNRs and Nighthawks, but at lower skill levels it is obvious that something is awry.
-= Don't you DARE call her ugly! =-
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Varkyl Wydon
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Posted - 2008.11.26 14:30:00 -
[32]
EVE is a MMORPG. Play it like one.
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Latrodanes
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.11.26 14:33:00 -
[33]
I just completed L2 Blockade in my lil' Moa last night. Dire Pithi frigates were flinging Bloodclaws that were hitting at 95km and Despoilers were jamming at about the same range. That's about twice the pre-patch ranges.
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Rachel Voegel
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Posted - 2008.11.26 15:59:00 -
[34]
I was doing L2s in a Caracal until very recently and had no problems, but I agree that NPCs being able to do stuff which players cannot do (as described above) is a bit silly.
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Cat Molina
Minmatar Psychotic Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.26 16:27:00 -
[35]
Originally by: ShardowRhino no, no ,no, see your thread was completely moronic as it suggested making changes that would challenge the way I play the game and remove easy-mode.
Fixed that for you.
I took a look at the crap you spout here and in Eve.mag, and it's always the same: you attempting to preach down to others from on high. Only problem with that is... you're an idiot, and it shows. Your PvP stats are pathetic (dear god I hope your main really is better) and now you're posting that you're having difficulties with a level 2 mission!
This pretty much determines that you're just not that sharp.
So let's put it all together: You're not good at PvP. You're not good at PvE (which I didn't think was possible!). You obviously don't make a great deal of isk in the game (referring to your little article on Eve.mag where you whine about gamecard prices). You're rude. And you try to pass off your shortcomings as being somehow superior.
I seriously hope this is an act. Are you this much a loser in real life? Why don't you write an article on that? I've always had a morbid fascination with just what you people must be thinking.
tl;dr: Level 2 missions are fine. OP is a fool. If you find them too difficult, I highly suggest you avoid non-blob forms of PvP, as you'd never make it.
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K'uata Sayus
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Posted - 2008.11.26 16:55:00 -
[36]
Ok, I'll take the bait. I'll dust off my cruisers and do a bunch of Level II's this weekend, and see if I've got the cajones of a real mission runner.....
EVERYONE SEEMS NORMAL UNTIL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM. |
Cat Molina
Minmatar Psychotic Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.26 17:05:00 -
[37]
Originally by: K'uata Sayus Ok, I'll take the bait. I'll dust off my cruisers and do a bunch of Level II's this weekend, and see if I've got the cajones of a real mission runner.....
A good idea. I don't fly Caldari, but will put my mission-runner/hauler/miner/trader alt in a T1 cruiser (Vexor) and see if I can get Blockade tonight.
Originally by: ShardowRhino Unless you can get 100+KM range out of light missiles and light rails, don't bother trying to suggest your even close.
Mission rats don't follow player rules... you should know this. Their capacitor is bottomless, their ranges are (and always have been) different from player weapon systems, they don't drop what they would seem to fit, etc., etc.
Nothing's changed (except that they do their damage in one burst now instead of several shots)... and I remain unaware of any changes to make missions harder.
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ShardowRhino
Caldari Legion 0f The Damned
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Posted - 2008.11.26 17:11:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Cat Molina
I took a look at the crap you spout here and in Eve.mag, and it's always the same: you attempting to preach down to others from on high. Only problem with that is... you're an idiot, and it shows. Your PvP stats are pathetic (dear god I hope your main really is better) and now you're posting that you're having difficulties with a level 2 mission!
This pretty much determines that you're just not that sharp.
So let's put it all together: You're not good at PvP. You're not good at PvE (which I didn't think was possible!). You obviously don't make a great deal of isk in the game (referring to your little article on Eve.mag where you whine about gamecard prices). You're rude. And you try to pass off your shortcomings as being somehow superior.
I seriously hope this is an act. Are you this much a loser in real life? Why don't you write an article on that? I've always had a morbid fascination with just what you people must be thinking.
tl;dr: Level 2 missions are fine. OP is a fool. If you find them too difficult, I highly suggest you avoid non-blob forms of PvP, as you'd never make it.
hhahahahah, what a total noob. man, lets see how i should carve up this turkey of a post you've presented me with.
First off, cat is a noob that suggested removing the pathetic,worth less then scordite, ice from empire. Ice that people mine for who knows what reason due to its low value. his idea was beyond stupid as the reason behind his proposed change was to force 0.0 alliance to mine ice themselves. It is in no way a stretch for someone to then suggest removing veldspar because 0.0 alliances also buy it to be used in capship production.
his idea would screw up ice prices. It would create a 100% reliance on 0.0 alliances for ice products regardless if your an empire corp. CCP just broke up the high end moon mineral monopoly so he wants to create a new one for alliances. GG, bob pet!
Now with that down onto the idea that hes able to look up my pvp stats. I don't recall posting links to the various KBs i would have kills on. So I have to ask what your going off of in order to make such a judgement?
He mentions he reads my articles on www.Eve-Mag.com , which makes me ROFL since he continues to read them even though he clearly does not like me. I love it when the morons join my fanclub. Oh and by the way, I even said i dont have the biggest kill count in my last article
so rolling with a gang is automatically blob warfare? Is gang fights really something you look down on? I'm sure you've snubbed about 90% of pvpers with that move. also its funny to mention blobs as i seem to be on the recieving end of massive numbers instead of the other way around. my favorite example is taking on a massive TRI gang in my drake in order to buy RK time. Massive kill spam? no. Balls? Yes
Cat, theres an RL skill called "Reading comprehension" i suggest you get that to level 1. you clearly missed the point of this thread. instead you let your "little man" syndrome get the better of you"omg your a noob that can't do L2s!" that shows how stupid you must be if thats what your getting.
As for my isk, I make plenty without trying. hell your reading my primary source of isk. You know, the stuff where i preach down at everyone else. Which if your reading my articles and coming away with me basically talking down to people, you need that skill bad! Also it shows how bad your case of "little man"syndrome is.
please, stop embarrassing yourself. Oh and keep reading my articles on www.Eve-Mag.com
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ShardowRhino
Caldari Legion 0f The Damned
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Posted - 2008.11.26 17:13:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Cat Molina
Nothing's changed (except that they do their damage in one burst now instead of several shots)... and I remain unaware of any changes to make missions harder.
oh spouting off while being completely ignorant of the facts? hm, how am I not surprised!
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ShardowRhino
Caldari Legion 0f The Damned
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Posted - 2008.11.26 17:25:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Latrodanes I just completed L2 Blockade in my lil' Moa last night. Dire Pithi frigates were flinging Bloodclaws that were hitting at 95km and Despoilers were jamming at about the same range. That's about twice the pre-patch ranges.
You sir have proven that you wear your head on top of your shoulders! unlike certain people that have responded that wear theirs in their rectum.
If someone is doing L4s where they have weapons that can hit at 95km the change isn't going to be as big of a problem. At least not when compared to people who's weapons reach maybe 50-70km or even less. When I did some L4s after the recent patch, the long range was just an annoyance. It wasn't until i relocated and started doing low level missions again that I noticed how game breaking it is.
Ships with weapons with those shorter ranges are bound to have smaller tanks making the increased attack range of npcs far more noticeable.
Newer players that cannot use T2 or even afford it are going to be at a serious disadvantage against such rats. Their weapons are going also do less damage and have shorter ranges.
For me its annoying. For a new player, it could be game killing. I can afford to replace my ship hundreds of times over. However my friend who is less then 2 months old isn't going to be able to and thats someone with someone to advise him on how to fit his ship correctly. New players who have no friends in the game ahead of them will be at a greater disadvantage.
IF CCP wants to run off new players, thats fine. its their game. Im sure the new players will be looking at wow again where they don't try to drive off new players by killing them without mercy. Missions should have some challenge to them, same with ratting in 0.0 or mining, there should be a challenge to it all. However when you place to great of a challenge against a player who is still getting used to the game, your going to drive them off.
Like me, hate me for what ever reason, Latrodanes speaks the truth about the insane ranges of the rats in missions. Anyone that suggests we drive off new players needs to get their heads checked.
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Cat Molina
Minmatar Psychotic Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.26 17:27:00 -
[41]
Originally by: ShardowRhino hhahahahah, what a total noob. man, lets see how i should carve up this turkey of a post you've presented me with.
First off, cat is a noob that suggested removing the pathetic,worth less then scordite, ice from empire. Ice that people mine for who knows what reason due to its low value. his idea was beyond stupid as the reason behind his proposed change was to force 0.0 alliance to mine ice themselves. It is in no way a stretch for someone to then suggest removing veldspar because 0.0 alliances also buy it to be used in capship production.
his idea would screw up ice prices. It would create a 100% reliance on 0.0 alliances for ice products regardless if your an empire corp. CCP just broke up the high end moon mineral monopoly so he wants to create a new one for alliances. GG, bob pet!
Now with that down onto the idea that hes able to look up my pvp stats. I don't recall posting links to the various KBs i would have kills on. So I have to ask what your going off of in order to make such a judgement?
He mentions he reads my articles on www.Eve-Mag.com , which makes me ROFL since he continues to read them even though he clearly does not like me. I love it when the morons join my fanclub. Oh and by the way, I even said i dont have the biggest kill count in my last article
so rolling with a gang is automatically blob warfare? Is gang fights really something you look down on? I'm sure you've snubbed about 90% of pvpers with that move. also its funny to mention blobs as i seem to be on the recieving end of massive numbers instead of the other way around. my favorite example is taking on a massive TRI gang in my drake in order to buy RK time. Massive kill spam? no. Balls? Yes
Cat, theres an RL skill called "Reading comprehension" i suggest you get that to level 1. you clearly missed the point of this thread. instead you let your "little man" syndrome get the better of you"omg your a noob that can't do L2s!" that shows how stupid you must be if thats what your getting.
As for my isk, I make plenty without trying. hell your reading my primary source of isk. You know, the stuff where i preach down at everyone else. Which if your reading my articles and coming away with me basically talking down to people, you need that skill bad! Also it shows how bad your case of "little man"syndrome is.
please, stop embarrassing yourself. Oh and keep reading my articles on www.Eve-Mag.com
Sounds like I struck a nerve. But I suppose if you use enough smiley faces, people won't see how angry you are... right?
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Cade Morrigan
Caldari The Terrible Secret
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Posted - 2008.11.26 17:35:00 -
[42]
Would be nice to have a thread about ... oh, changes in the QR npcs, without a bunch of personal **** coming up. How about that part be shut down in favor of action reports.
-= Don't you DARE call her ugly! =-
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ShardowRhino
Caldari Legion 0f The Damned
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Posted - 2008.11.26 17:45:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Cade Morrigan Would be nice to have a thread about ... oh, changes in the QR npcs, without a bunch of personal **** coming up. How about that part be shut down in favor of action reports.
hahaha, that would be cool but apparently my #1 fan follows me into every thread.
Personally I wish applebabe didn't move this thread to this section. It reduces its visibility and feels as though it was a sweeping under the rug move.
Hopefully enough people with common sense will dust off that cruiser of theirs in their hangar and go pay a visit to their old l2 and l3 agents and see for themselves. I doubt the new players are going to tell CCP anything, instead blaming themselves for being so new.
So I think we really need to have players that should be able to destroy low level missions checking it out. If enough people confirm the problem does in fact exist then that could get CCP to reevaluate what they are doing and have done to low level missions.
I myself will be back to L4s in a few days. My raven or mega can tank the changes without a problem. However that leaves new players to fend for themselves. I know i hate being the new guy without a voice so i think its up to us to speak up for them.
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Fixxi Hard
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Posted - 2008.11.26 18:11:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Artemis Rose
Originally by: Frug Never needed a bs for lvl 3 though. Just know what ships not to shoot.
I still remember taking a Caracal into this level 3 (my first one) and going "Hey, look, a destroyer, its small I'll pop it first"
Just to trigger another spawn.
hehe, I know that one, had the same but sitting in a Cormorant in a lvl 3 :D although I was in fleet with a Caracal then .. if we wouldnt have found someone friendly in local we would play still the same mission :D
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0rch1d
Caldari Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.11.26 19:09:00 -
[45]
So get a better ship.
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Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.11.26 19:14:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Drake does it pretty well.
I hear a Nighthawk is good too
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Taulian
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Posted - 2008.11.26 20:33:00 -
[47]
To your point of the difficulty driving away new players, I've been playing for about 2 months and have less than 3 mil SP. This is the first mission I got when I moved up to level 2's, and I admit I found it pretty hard. I lost 2 stabbers and a bellicose because I didn't really have a clue. In level 1 missions, I was able to pretty much waltz in in my arty Thrasher and kill everything without worrying about anything. Once I put together a ship with a decent tank and learned a little bit more about how NPCs behave, the mission became pretty easy although it does take me a while. The challenge of figuring out how not to get blasted into oblivion was the most fun I've had in Eve so far.
To the other point of the mission being hard, I'm wondering what pirate faction you're getting. I haven't been getting long range aggro like that in this mission. I'm pretty sure that I've had only Angel Cartel for this mission, and I maybe that's why I haven't had any of them shooting at me from 100km. On the other hand, my ship is using mostly autocannon's which force me to get close, so I end up with the entire group firing on me anyway, and it's not causing problems now that I've got my tanking problems figured out. |
Kery Nysell
Caldari Nysell Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.11.26 20:48:00 -
[48]
Well, that's wierd ...
I did a bunch of lvl 2s in my old, rusty Caracal recently, and yes, I did see missiles coming my way from 80+ kms (not had a respawn farther than that, yet), jamming/EWAR from outside of their own lock range (you know, when the brackets are flashing yellow and not yet red), volleys of hybrids/projectiles/lasers from insane distances ...
In fact, I'm reminded of the very first missions I did, 4 years ago when I started in this game ... back then, a NPC in a Condor could spew Rockets from 75+ kms at you ...
And guess what ? The answer to this problem is still the same as 4 years ago : good tank, afterburner to reduce the range to your own "fighting range", and target prioritisation, wash, rinse, repeat.
Still, I'll do more lvl 2s in the next days (well, as much as I can, what with classes, Real Life and other little things that get in the way of game-time), take notes, and compare those with the bunches of notes I've archived during my carebearing career in eVe. <~ sig starts here
My Skills |
Cat Molina
Minmatar Psychotic Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.26 21:12:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Cade Morrigan Would be nice to have a thread about ... oh, changes in the QR npcs, without a bunch of personal **** coming up. How about that part be shut down in favor of action reports.
I'm just returning a favor. But very well. We'll try one last attempt to get through to this Champion of Eve Noobs... but I bet it won't work.
Rhino: I don't have a problem with you disagreeing with me or my ideas. To be totally honest, I find your opinions halfway informative. However, you lack the ability to disagree without being rude... and I can only assume (hope!) that you're young and inexperienced. Case in point:
Originally by: ShardowRhino There was 1 person that has responded that seems to have actually grasped what I'm saying.
As you can see, your wording might tend to make people feel you're a bit pretentious. Not sure if that's what you're aiming for. I seriously wonder at the social abilities of someone who resorts to calling those with opposing ideas 'stupid'.
You see, I don't need your agreement on a topic for it to be recognized by CCP. Neither do you need mine. All I need are about 5 or 6 pages or responses to keep it bumped for two days. Then it can be assured CCP sees it.
In any case, I believe you'd be taken a bit more seriously if your wording was a bit less antagonistic. You'll notice that, in spite of my dislike of you, I still offered to jump into a T1 cruiser to test out your theory that things have gone horribly wrong. You'll also notice that you failed to say anything about that... I wonder why?
So: Do unto others and all that. Take it for what it's worth. Rant and rail about it if it makes you feel better.
I'll stop trolling your thread now. I'd actually never trolled before, and thought it might be fun. But it made me feel kinda... icky. Do not want.
Good luck.
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Natsume Saito
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Posted - 2008.11.27 06:14:00 -
[50]
I can agree that the ranges of mission NPC's are a bit weird, sometimes they do hit you from insane ranges, but mostly they miss. Anyhow, I'm rather new to the game. And I can't say I really had any problem with L2's in cruisers, infact I could afk run them. I only started struggling a little bit with L3's, and a week later I'm doing L4's efficiently.
Can't really say its broken or too hard, Oh.. and I used Caracal too, now using drake in L4's.
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Karanth
Gallente Independent Fleet Space Exploration and Logistic Services
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Posted - 2008.11.27 07:07:00 -
[51]
I've been shot at by NPCs 10 AU away after undocking right after logging in. I've been hit by torpedoes from NPCs that are over 150km from me. I've been permajammed more times than I can count, and used to get damped down to about 450m targeting range.
I've taken it all, including The Blockade level 3 in my Harbinger, blowing away rats willy-nilly and letting them spawn as they like. As long as you move you'll live.
Seriously. Learn to play the game. ---
Wheel of Whineage |
Lagerstars
Caldari Repo Industries R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.11.27 13:27:00 -
[52]
LOL this thread is funny. Virtually all the posts totally ignore the point being raised and decide to just say learn to do missions, when that has nothing at all to do with what the thread was started for.
If NPC's are hitting from so far out since the latest changes, then i would probably suggest reporting some kind of bug or something so its flagged properly, instead of the ignorant on here just posting crap -----------------------------------------
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Kept
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Posted - 2008.11.27 14:34:00 -
[53]
I am a completely new player and I run lvl 2 blockades in a t1 caracal on a daily basis with absolutely no issues what so ever.
Check your fit perhaps.
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FT Diomedes
Gallente Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2008.11.27 14:42:00 -
[54]
The simple fact of the matter is that missile spewing rats have always sent missiles screaming in from absurd ranges. It isn't just since QR, it's always been like that. I remember my first fight against Guristas as a noob thinking it really sucked that my Catalyst couldn't close the range on them without getting blasted to hell and gone. The NPCs cheat. Welcome to Eve. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome. |
Cade Morrigan
Caldari The Terrible Secret
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Posted - 2008.11.27 15:21:00 -
[55]
Originally by: FT Diomedes The simple fact of the matter is that missile spewing rats have always sent missiles screaming in from absurd ranges. It isn't just since QR, it's always been like that. I remember my first fight against Guristas as a noob thinking it really sucked that my Catalyst couldn't close the range on them without getting blasted to hell and gone. The NPCs cheat. Welcome to Eve.
Yes they do, and after a couple years in game I think I have a grasp on that fact. But there also exists the fact that I could out-range npc heavy missiles with my pimped caracal before, but now cannot. Something changed and since the devs messed with npc firing rates / damage, perhaps they could review those changes to ensure things are behaving as they intend. Good point from the author a couple posts up... this should just be petitioned as a bug rather than bounced around the forums which are pretty much a waste of pixels for serious discussion.
-= Don't you DARE call her ugly! =-
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Van Disaster
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Posted - 2008.11.27 17:05:00 -
[56]
Was in a passive shield 'cane inside a month of starting & did l3 blockade without any particular difficulty, other than it taking forever thanks to low dps, low SP & most slots used for tanking mods didn't help much. I got halfway through it in the stabber I was using for l2s, but it couldn't OD the HAC tank rep & still live, so I moved up to the BC way too early, albeit with total success. Couple of weeks later & it's a breeze. If this is hard I hate to think how easy they used to be.
Eve PvE needs some major reworking though.
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zombeee
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Posted - 2008.11.27 19:39:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Cade Morrigan But there also exists the fact that I could out-range npc heavy missiles with my pimped caracal before, but now cannot.
So what?
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.27 20:32:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Kept I am a completely new player and I run lvl 2 blockades in a t1 caracal on a daily basis with absolutely no issues what so ever.
Check your fit perhaps.
Against Guristas or Caldari navy?
At least half of the problem of Shadowrhino is that.
The guristas have insane ranges as they mirror the Caldari ship philosophy of long range combat + long range ECM, combining it with the cheating of the NPC in all the computer games, to get excessive results.
Some of the other NPC have some similar insane advantages (Amarr and Bloodraider ships NOSssing/capdisrupting at 50+ km), but not in so deadly a combination as ECM+very long range fire.
Naturally it is much more perceptible in low level missions than in high level missions, as the players will be using lighter weapons with shorter ranges while the NPC will still be getting ranges unreachable by a player using the same kind of weapons.
As different NPC use different tactics and weapons the difference can be more or less perceptible.
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Daergaar
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.11.28 20:17:00 -
[59]
The only way around the problem is to fit an insane tank, which, while easy to do on a battlecruiser, is not so easy on a cruiser.
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Kaelo LePetit
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.28 23:55:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Kaelo LePetit on 28/11/2008 23:56:44 hello, 2.4 mil SP player here, running L2's since 3 days ago in a vexor usually.
The L2 missions I've done so far have been reasonable mostly. In my experience I get missile hits from frigs at about 50-55km's out when flying vs angels and caldari navy. I've never been warp jammed like someone mentioned earlier, but occasionally dampened to about 25km lock range. Never got webbed so far. there were two missions so far which were too hard to tank.
One mission was the first part of a three mission ark, where you have to scout certain areas. in the first room there was a dessy, a thorax and a brutix. I engaged the thorax but couldn't break his tank. in the course of the next seconds, more and more cruisers spawned and I had to disengage after killing nothing but a destroyer. however killing all enemies was not required for the mission.
the other time I was set upon by about 7 frigs or so that were hammering my vexor into oblivion with missiles. I had to get out my brutix (which I usually don't use because its slower) in order to survive. With the brutix It was no problem at all.
imo yes, some missions are really hard and you may have to adapt your ship/fitting accordingly. but I manage okay despite not fitting rat-specific hardeners (always one explosive resist and one that gives 14% across the range), not being cap stable by a long shot (despite up to three cap rechargers and only running a small named repper) and not having a single T2 piece of equipment.
One thing I do have though and which has always been an integral part of my strategy was having an afterburner, I'm not sure i'd have survived even half the missions I did without it. <3 |
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