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Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.07.15 15:59:00 -
[121]
 Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
my head hurts, its really stupid that we need to use all these formulas to understand how the turrets works, i dont find this any amusing at all...
eve is suppose to be a game, something fun to play, but this is not fun...
if i want math, i would sign up on the nearest math class...
Actually there isn't a lot of formulas to understand.
(transversal velocity/range)*(turret sig radius/target sig radius)=tracking needed to hit.
That's all that's to it.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.07.15 15:59:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
my head hurts, its really stupid that we need to use all these formulas to understand how the turrets works, i dont find this any amusing at all...
eve is suppose to be a game, something fun to play, but this is not fun...
if i want math, i would sign up on the nearest math class...
Actually there isn't a lot of formulas to understand.
(transversal velocity/range)*(turret sig radius/target sig radius)=tracking needed to hit.
That's all that's to it.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.07.16 12:32:00 -
[123]
hmm, will take some time to add that to my gameplay...
"We brake for nobody"
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.07.16 12:32:00 -
[124]
hmm, will take some time to add that to my gameplay...
"We brake for nobody"
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L'Ming
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Posted - 2004.08.01 05:15:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Gariuys
Actually there isn't a lot of formulas to understand.
(transversal velocity/range)*(turret sig radius/target sig radius)=tracking needed to hit.
That's all that's to it.
By "turret sig radius" you mean.....tracking? Or what?
But that would be all-or-nothing, right? If a turret can't track fast enough, it would never catch up to the target, unless the turret just happened to be pointing at the moving enemy as it fired, then it'd hit.
"Tracking" implies that each turret is assumed to have a facing, and can only adjust that facing at a certain speed. Is that how the game works?
So if a ship is coming straight at you tracking is irrelevant - you'd hit every time (yes?). Then as it passes (and then continues straight on), assuming it passes close, you'd miss every time until your turrets come around. Then it's back to hitting every time. Is that how it works?
ie: *hit hit hit* (firing straight down the throat) *zoom* (the ship screams past) *miss miss miss* (the turrets are slowly turning 180 degrees) *hit hit hit* (firing up the bum)
Oh, and am I correct in thinking, then, that the sig radius is the effective "size" of the target? |
L'Ming
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Posted - 2004.08.01 05:15:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Gariuys
Actually there isn't a lot of formulas to understand.
(transversal velocity/range)*(turret sig radius/target sig radius)=tracking needed to hit.
That's all that's to it.
By "turret sig radius" you mean.....tracking? Or what?
But that would be all-or-nothing, right? If a turret can't track fast enough, it would never catch up to the target, unless the turret just happened to be pointing at the moving enemy as it fired, then it'd hit.
"Tracking" implies that each turret is assumed to have a facing, and can only adjust that facing at a certain speed. Is that how the game works?
So if a ship is coming straight at you tracking is irrelevant - you'd hit every time (yes?). Then as it passes (and then continues straight on), assuming it passes close, you'd miss every time until your turrets come around. Then it's back to hitting every time. Is that how it works?
ie: *hit hit hit* (firing straight down the throat) *zoom* (the ship screams past) *miss miss miss* (the turrets are slowly turning 180 degrees) *hit hit hit* (firing up the bum)
Oh, and am I correct in thinking, then, that the sig radius is the effective "size" of the target? |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.08.01 11:45:00 -
[127]
Turret sig radius, is the preffered sig radius of the turret.
400 for large turrets, 125 for medium turrets, 40 for small turrets.
And yes sig radius is the effective size of the target, atleast when it comes to tracking and locking said target.
It's a good idea to show transversal velocities in your scanner, when that is high you won't hit, when it's low you will. And since yes transversal velocity is low on a straight aproach and high during a flyby, then low again when what your shooting at is moving away from you in a straight line again, you will go: hit hit, miss miss miss, hit hit hit.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.08.01 11:45:00 -
[128]
Turret sig radius, is the preffered sig radius of the turret.
400 for large turrets, 125 for medium turrets, 40 for small turrets.
And yes sig radius is the effective size of the target, atleast when it comes to tracking and locking said target.
It's a good idea to show transversal velocities in your scanner, when that is high you won't hit, when it's low you will. And since yes transversal velocity is low on a straight aproach and high during a flyby, then low again when what your shooting at is moving away from you in a straight line again, you will go: hit hit, miss miss miss, hit hit hit.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Azure Skyclad
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Posted - 2004.08.01 12:06:00 -
[129]
In an attempt to put all the maths into context:
If you have to spin your camera drone quickly to follow your target, your guns are having the same difficulty.
The bigger the gun, the harder it gets.
La Maison de tous Les Plaisirs
Star Fraction
http://www.voodoorockers.co.uk/ |
Azure Skyclad
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Posted - 2004.08.01 12:06:00 -
[130]
In an attempt to put all the maths into context:
If you have to spin your camera drone quickly to follow your target, your guns are having the same difficulty.
The bigger the gun, the harder it gets.
La Maison de tous Les Plaisirs
Star Fraction
http://www.voodoorockers.co.uk/ |
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Noin
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Posted - 2004.08.01 17:02:00 -
[131]
Well I fly a Tempest and the thing I do to keep tracking as close to 0 as possible is this:
My Tempest has buttloads of speed modules, I can fly 800m/s indefinately.
So when I warp in at 60km, I turn around 180 degrees and run away. I keep the distance the same to my enemies.
Transversal velocity is the around 8-10 and the other velocity is around 10 as well.
Then I hit around 60% of my shots at 50km with Uranium ammo.
It's about the best way I hit and I do 100-200 damage per shot :)
Ok it takes a while to kill stuff but at least it works now.
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Noin
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Posted - 2004.08.01 17:02:00 -
[132]
Well I fly a Tempest and the thing I do to keep tracking as close to 0 as possible is this:
My Tempest has buttloads of speed modules, I can fly 800m/s indefinately.
So when I warp in at 60km, I turn around 180 degrees and run away. I keep the distance the same to my enemies.
Transversal velocity is the around 8-10 and the other velocity is around 10 as well.
Then I hit around 60% of my shots at 50km with Uranium ammo.
It's about the best way I hit and I do 100-200 damage per shot :)
Ok it takes a while to kill stuff but at least it works now.
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qyros
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Posted - 2004.08.01 18:20:00 -
[133]
There is another workaround, that has nothing to do with long range. It was posted before, can¦t remember where...
The displayed tracking speed takes the moving direction of your ship and the speed into account.
You can get a low transversal speed flying a parallel course to your target with the same speed. And this works also with short range ammo.
Make "look at" at your target, turn the camera behind the target, so that you are looking accurately into the direction it¦s flying. Double-click behind the targeted ship and your ship fly into the same direction like your target...
With some dedication it¦s possible to outmanoeuvre every npc except npc frigates.
The damage is still bad (phased plasma, typhoon) :
Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I is well aimed at Blood Dark Priest, inflicting 118.7 damage.
Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I hits Blood Dark Priest, doing 90.8 damage.
Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I hits Blood Dark Priest, doing 90.5 damage.
Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I hits Blood Dark Priest, doing 131.8 damage.
Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I places an excellent hit on Blood Dark Priest, inflicting 174.0 damage.
Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I hits Blood Dark Priest, doing 95.3 damage.
Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I is well aimed at Blood Dark Priest, inflicting 117.7 damage.
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qyros
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Posted - 2004.08.01 18:20:00 -
[134]
There is another workaround, that has nothing to do with long range. It was posted before, can¦t remember where...
The displayed tracking speed takes the moving direction of your ship and the speed into account.
You can get a low transversal speed flying a parallel course to your target with the same speed. And this works also with short range ammo.
Make "look at" at your target, turn the camera behind the target, so that you are looking accurately into the direction it¦s flying. Double-click behind the targeted ship and your ship fly into the same direction like your target...
With some dedication it¦s possible to outmanoeuvre every npc except npc frigates.
The damage is still bad (phased plasma, typhoon) :
Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I is well aimed at Blood Dark Priest, inflicting 118.7 damage.
Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I hits Blood Dark Priest, doing 90.8 damage.
Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I hits Blood Dark Priest, doing 90.5 damage.
Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I hits Blood Dark Priest, doing 131.8 damage.
Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I places an excellent hit on Blood Dark Priest, inflicting 174.0 damage.
Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I hits Blood Dark Priest, doing 95.3 damage.
Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I is well aimed at Blood Dark Priest, inflicting 117.7 damage.
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Marcus Soban
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Posted - 2004.08.03 07:55:00 -
[135]
I'm pretty sure the equation to determine accuracy is this:
Note that this gives you a value between 0 and 1, multiply by 100 to get a percentage number. I have a theory that the 2.8 exponents are actually supposed to be e (as in the natural logarithm base, approx 2.72), as 2.8 seems a little arbitrary to me.
At any rate, this is obviously not an equation you can just do in your head... I made a 3D graph of accuracy vs transversal velocity and range for a 225mm railgun fitted with plutonium charges shooting at your average frigate. The graph can be seen here: http://public.clunet.edu/~sjfahmie/accuracy.jpg
I'm working on an excel spreadsheet that can give useful accuracy data based on these formulas.
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Marcus Soban
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Posted - 2004.08.03 07:55:00 -
[136]
I'm pretty sure the equation to determine accuracy is this:
Note that this gives you a value between 0 and 1, multiply by 100 to get a percentage number. I have a theory that the 2.8 exponents are actually supposed to be e (as in the natural logarithm base, approx 2.72), as 2.8 seems a little arbitrary to me.
At any rate, this is obviously not an equation you can just do in your head... I made a 3D graph of accuracy vs transversal velocity and range for a 225mm railgun fitted with plutonium charges shooting at your average frigate. The graph can be seen here: http://public.clunet.edu/~sjfahmie/accuracy.jpg
I'm working on an excel spreadsheet that can give useful accuracy data based on these formulas.
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Mitram
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Posted - 2004.08.03 10:58:00 -
[137]
When shooting at a station a bit below optimal range I see like 25% or more slight hits.
Hell, the station stands still and my ship stands still too. How can I miss or slightly hit it?
I think the formula is a bit more random than expected.
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Mitram
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Posted - 2004.08.03 10:58:00 -
[138]
When shooting at a station a bit below optimal range I see like 25% or more slight hits.
Hell, the station stands still and my ship stands still too. How can I miss or slightly hit it?
I think the formula is a bit more random than expected.
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Mitram
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Posted - 2004.08.03 11:00:00 -
[139]
Also your formula does not show that you can not hit thing if they are too close even if everything stands still.
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Mitram
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Posted - 2004.08.03 11:00:00 -
[140]
Also your formula does not show that you can not hit thing if they are too close even if everything stands still.
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Amira
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Posted - 2004.08.03 15:26:00 -
[141]
This would all be fixed if Transversal Velocity were related on your combat scanner in Radians. You would instantly know if you could hit the target or not based on your tracking.
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"The Spartans ask not how many, but where they are." -Agis II of Sparta
'Valor is the contempt of death and pain.' -Tacitus |
Amira
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Posted - 2004.08.03 15:26:00 -
[142]
This would all be fixed if Transversal Velocity were related on your combat scanner in Radians. You would instantly know if you could hit the target or not based on your tracking.
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"The Spartans ask not how many, but where they are." -Agis II of Sparta
'Valor is the contempt of death and pain.' -Tacitus |
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