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So Eve is dying...

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Captain Politics JotunHeim Hird X13 Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.30 20:32:00 - [1] Almost new server record... Eve is dead
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.30 20:33:00 - [2] Looks pretty stable over the last year tbh.
Captain Politics JotunHeim Hird X13 Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.30 20:34:00 - [3] Yeah but with all the whine and cheese we have had lately you should think eve is dying...
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.30 20:35:00 - [4] Eve has been dying ever since I started playing.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.11.30 20:37:00 - [5] you think it dying now ... wait until the box comes out all those peep who are willing to givbe it as chance all logging on at once .... my god it will be like the 4 horse men of the apolcypse but in amarr form and riding giant avatars while smoking mushrooms
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2008.11.30 20:39:00 - [6] Originally by: Captain Politics Almost new server record... Eve is dead EVE Online have always been dying. It will just take a few decades... Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.11.30 20:39:00 - [7] We all die just a little each day. Sov is like dust in the wind. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.30 20:40:00 - [8] It will be a nice change to see all the min-max new players going Amarr.
Karille Gallente Cold Templars Templar Initiative	Posted - 2008.11.30 20:50:00 - [9] Netcraft confirms it.
ShadowDraqon The Quantum Company	Posted - 2008.11.30 20:51:00 - [10] Originally by: Armoured C you think it dying now ... wait until the box comes out all those peep who are willing to givbe it as chance all logging on at once .... my god it will be like the 4 horse men of the apolcypse but in amarr form and riding giant avatars while smoking mushrooms EPIC! ======================================= Want to see a trick? snaps fingers Notify: "The Final Countdown" is now playing nonstop in your head. Neat, eh?

Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.11.30 20:54:00 - [11] He said it first! -------- Ideas for: Mining
Essack Leadae Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.30 21:45:00 - [12] Dying ? No. Too much stable ? Yes. April 2008 : 236,510 Today : Still under 250,000 (242,000 ?) It is an impressive amount of new accounts, when we compare with others MMO Games (sarcasm) And we don't know if it is all accounts or if it is paid accounts only. More seriously, we can suppose that EVE suffers of the CCP choices, in a way or another. Maybe not losing players, but not more players too.
Bartholomeus Crane Gallente The Crane Family	Posted - 2008.11.30 22:06:00 - [13] Normally around this time of year you would expect more players, either new ones or players returning. Partly because of the winter expansion, or because of winter itself. That didn't happen this time. Partly because maybe the expansion wasn't interesting enough. On the other hand, other years around this time we had some major 'political' shake-ups. Great wars, invasions, that sort of thing. We haven't had one of thusfar. Yet. But given all this, I don't think EVE has done that badly. Increase in numbers has levelled off certainly, but there are still a healthy number of players around. Or a new epic war maybe just around the corner, energising a lot of players to return. The next expansion is not too far of as well and looks very interesting. Then there's the box thing, although I have no idea how that will affect things. The problem seems to be one that CCP has had for a long time; making good on all the promises they have made. Eventually it may have appeared in the game, but usually quite late. There's a lot riding on what they are going to do now, as people maybe start to lose interest, and there is competition in the works. On the other hand, they say they have more people working on things now than ever before, and we seem to be getting more regular updates and patches as well. So, is EVE going to die? Yes, because everything dies. But I don't see a decline just yet, and there are still a lot of things in the pipeline. Unless you have some marketing data we don't have access to. -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Pesky LaRue Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.30 22:26:00 - [14] Originally by: Captain Politics Almost new server record... Eve is dead is the record still 42711 \|+ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ +\| Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.11.30 22:32:00 - [15] Edited by: MotherMoon on 30/11/2008 22:34:36 Edited by: MotherMoon on 30/11/2008 22:33:06 Originally by: Essack Leadae Dying ? No. Too much stable ? Yes. April 2008 : 236,510 Today : Still under 250,000 (242,000 ?) It is an impressive amount of new accounts, when we compare with others MMO Games (sarcasm) And we don't know if it is all accounts or if it is paid accounts only. More seriously, we can suppose that EVE suffers of the CCP choices, in a way or another. Maybe not losing players, but not more players too. it IS an impressive number of accounts for an mmorpg. also don't forget eve also has 40,000 extra trial accounts not counted towards the total. WoW has 13 million AoC has 190,000 Warhamnmer has 270,000 Final fantasy 11 has 110,000 City of heros has 60,000 EQ has 40,000 EQ2 has 38,000 Linage 1+2 have 400,000 players So eve is the 4th most popular mmorpg on the market, and the only one to show growth. the ONLY ONE.
Essack Leadae Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.30 22:52:00 - [16] Edited by: Essack Leadae on 30/11/2008 22:53:38 Hum, Linage I & II have 1M each. Runescape 1.1M, Dofus 500K (10M is a lie) and this two still grows. And WOW still attract more and more players each month. The annoying thing is that we can't trust the number as this depends of included paied or not, etc..., but they still give an idea of the situation. The problem is not the amount of accounts on EVE, but we don't know how much are paied (there is trial and there is expired one), and it is stable a little too long. When last year EVE gained nearly 80K account, this year 12K, it can be considered suspect.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.11.30 22:57:00 - [17] Originally by: Essack Leadae Hum, Linage I & II have 1M each. Runescape 1.1M, Dofus 500K (10M is a lie)... And WOW still attract more and more players each month. The annoying thing is that we can't trust the number, but they still give an idea of the situation. The problem is not the amount of accounts on EVE, but we don't know how much are paied, and it is stable a few too long. When last year EVE gained nearly 80K account, this year 12K, it can be considered suspect. opps I thought they totals 1 million players. you can't count free mmorpgs, and no the growth is still going up. linage started at 5 million. eve started at 10,000.only 3 years ago it was at 60,000. and eve even that is considered a lot of money. yes eve is growing slowly because of new features not being WOAH GAWD DMN, but who cares 10,000 more players is still 150,000$ more a month. and please don't count free to play mmorpg. even though to it's credit runscape does get people to pay 5$ for perks, and even if you divide that number of player in 3 because it's cheaper it's still got a **** ton of players. are you saying eve should be more like dofus or RS? I'm sure other people here and seperate games like warhammer and RS into separate categories.
Essack Leadae Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.30 23:09:00 - [18] Yes I included some useless references, sorry. Well, not totally, after all I play at EVE nearly free so why not (GTC) ^^ There is still WOW and Final Fantasy XI as reference. No, I don't want see a EVE with 13M players (well, it could be fun in 0.0 sometimes) but I am not so optimistic about EVE when I see the account progression become more tighten and the unknown paid status. I was in an old MMORTS game who said 400K accounts but with less of 10K paid accounts in reality, and today 300/500...
Bartholomeus Crane Gallente The Crane Family	Posted - 2008.11.30 23:20:00 - [19] Well, I won't argue with numbers I can't verify. The points is though that EVE's growth has slowed over the last year. Normally, by this time, EVE would have had a growth spurt because of more players returning in winter, and the expansion attracting more players to join up or return to play. That hasn't happened. At least, not as I see it. Does this mean that EVE is dead? No, not at all. Players on the server is still good, and although growth has slowed, new players still come to EVE, otherwise the number of players on the server would have declined. But, it does mean that CCP needs to start delivering on some of their promises. And soon as well. New competition in the internets spaceship genre are showing up, and you need to keep peoples attention. The new spring expansion, the box thingy, and WiS when it eventually will arrive will probably do this. They'll have to, otherwise this 'stability' may mean the EVE has peaked last year. Or am I missing something? -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Captain Politics JotunHeim Hird X13 Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.30 23:29:00 - [20] Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane Well, I won't argue with numbers I can't verify. The points is though that EVE's growth has slowed over the last year. Normally, by this time, EVE would have had a growth spurt because of more players returning in winter, and the expansion attracting more players to join up or return to play. That hasn't happened. At least, not as I see it. Does this mean that EVE is dead? No, not at all. Players on the server is still good, and although growth has slowed, new players still come to EVE, otherwise the number of players on the server would have declined. But, it does mean that CCP needs to start delivering on some of their promises. And soon as well. New competition in the internets spaceship genre are showing up, and you need to keep peoples attention. The new spring expansion, the box thingy, and WiS when it eventually will arrive will probably do this. They'll have to, otherwise this 'stability' may mean the EVE has peaked last year. Or am I missing something? It might also be the fact that 16 of the OECD countries just entered recession which should hurt mmorpgs across the boardm and also be a reason for the slowed growth.

Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2008.11.30 23:37:00 - [21] Originally by: Captain Politics It might also be the fact that 16 of the OECD countries just entered recession which should hurt mmorpgs across the boardm and also be a reason for the slowed growth. What he said. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2008.11.30 23:46:00 - [22] Yeah, it is true that CCP was a bit "non focussed" on Eve the last half year maybe but they are now really focussed on Eve again as you can see. Eve64, StacklessIO released in a very short time and quite bug-free as far as we can see. After the QR expansion they released two patches to fix minor stuff. This shows that they are absolutely focussed onto the point now. It is always difficult for a company to grow from a couple of people to a couple of hundred people. That needs time and most of the year was spent for that process I think. But this time is over now and I think they are at a good point where they can become really productive. So we already see the fruits from that burst of productivity and it will become only better in the future. The subscribers numbers? I bet they are ALL invalid and lots of big marketing frauds there too. And who cares about the numbers anyway? It is important if the company is trying to improve the game and develop new stuff and taking the leadership or if the company is using the game only as cash-cow and tries to milk it as long as possible and not investing any money in new stuff there. High subscriber numbers doesn't say any good thing if the investments are going towards zero. It is quite obvious that CCP invests a lot of money into Eve. They taking the leadership (at least regarding some developments) and they work hard to be the frontrunner. This is the secret of continious growth. And that is why Eve will grow further and continue to attract more player.
Pax Ratlin Gallente Woodland Larch	Posted - 2008.11.30 23:48:00 - [23] Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane Or am I missing something? I think your missing something, so just a couple of things to mull over. 1) How many games even after their 1 year post launch are still growing? It is a surprisingly small number of mmo's, which i suspect is due to the prevailing attitude in the games industry, in that a game has a limited shelf life and once you begin to reach the point of decline you cut back staff and resources and start working on the next big thing. 2) Virtually every buisness plan these days is based on one simple principle, the ability to make more profit than the previous year. A company on the stock exchange that dosn't make as much as it did the previous year is classed as being in trouble, EVEN if they made a profit. CCP has decided to go down another route (from what i can see) and avoid the path of unsustainable growth, instead going for sustainable growth, which might not win them any friends on the stock market but will make them more and more subscribers who they can satisfy all at once (well almost). OR in other words don't judge CCP's preformance based on the performance of other companies in the same buisness ... tractors and sports cars all have 4 wheels and an engine but it is rather pointless to compare the one against the other.
Bartholomeus Crane Gallente The Crane Family	Posted - 2008.12.01 00:15:00 - [24] Originally by: Letifer Deus Originally by: Captain Politics It might also be the fact that 16 of the OECD countries just entered recession which should hurt mmorpgs across the boardm and also be a reason for the slowed growth. What he said. That will certainly have had some effect. But if we take the players on the server as a measure, I don't see a sudden drop or even a decline during the period that this happened. This maybe caused because of a certain stickiness when it comes to players having paid subscription for several months in advance. But lets face it, the subscription isn't that high as to be entirely unaffordable, even in times of recession. But yeah, it will have had some effect. -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Ordais	Posted - 2008.12.01 00:33:00 - [25] Well, lets be realistic here: its now a full year since some of us have seen anything new. Most of the ppl didnt get involved into EA-expansion (all the non pvp-ppl and all the 0.0 peeps), and the winter expansion also holds nothing really new (a ship more that has its limited purpose). So, in the end we have a full year of "nothing" and maybe that reflects on the numbers. I am sure thats also the reason why CCP realized they had to focus back on content for 2009, and bringing in T3 as soon as possible to give EVERYONE something new (PvP, Mission, Producers, Explorers). And i have to say, its time. I personaly can live with the status quo, but i still use my old raven (or navy raven) for missions, and T1-BS for fleets, and HACs for small-gangs. All the other stuff like Marauders, BlackOps, and what not didnt have a real impact on the core game. If you consider that we even go further back then a year without nothing new to the core elements of the game. So, lets see what happens after T3. But i hope they get it right.
Bartholomeus Crane Gallente The Crane Family	Posted - 2008.12.01 00:34:00 - [26] There is a problem with comparing EVE to other MMOs though. For one, there's the difference of genre. There is currently no competition in the internets spaceships game out there. It's a niche, with niche appeal, but within that niche EVE is currently the only player. The question is how many players will go to the competition when they will show up, for example the trekky internets spaceship game in preparation? Most other MMOs are also focussed on either the fantasy genre, or the first person perspective genre. EVE doesn't do either. The skill-based real-time setup also works to keep players engaged longer, although that's a setup that is being copied more and more in other MMOs. Then there's the demographic. EVE players are older, more highly educated (I think), have more funds to pay for the game, and are more willing to put up with the learning cliff that EVE presents. I also happen to think that they are more loyal to the games they play. All relatively speaking ofcourse. This is not so much the case for the other MMOs out there. On the other hand, older players are more demanding (they have other things to do) and are less easy to please, and are more sceptical. So they may stick around longer for the features that they want, but there is a threshold beyond they will simply leave when they think they aren't taken seriously. Then there is the chance of a failure cascade as well. Not unheard off in the MMO world. So while I'm still fairly optimistic about the potential EVE has still left in it, that still has come to pass. QR was pitched as an incremental expansion. To me, the first instantiation of it lacked the oomph previous expansions had. I do expect more things to come out before the next full expansion. And that next expansion really has to make up for this one as well. Otherwise, I'm going to be somewhat disappointed. Fanfest fanfare, or no Fanfest fanfare. I'm quite sure I'm the only one who feels like this. -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Bartholomeus Crane Gallente The Crane Family	Posted - 2008.12.01 00:39:00 - [27] Originally by: Ordais Well, lets be realistic here: its now a full year since some of us have seen anything new. Most of the ppl didnt get involved into EA-expansion (all the non pvp-ppl and all the 0.0 peeps), and the winter expansion also holds nothing really new (a ship more that has its limited purpose). So, in the end we have a full year of "nothing" and maybe that reflects on the numbers. I am sure thats also the reason why CCP realized they had to focus back on content for 2009, and bringing in T3 as soon as possible to give EVERYONE something new (PvP, Mission, Producers, Explorers). And i have to say, its time. I personaly can live with the status quo, but i still use my old raven (or navy raven) for missions, and T1-BS for fleets, and HACs for small-gangs. All the other stuff like Marauders, BlackOps, and what not didnt have a real impact on the core game. If you consider that we even go further back then a year without nothing new to the core elements of the game. So, lets see what happens after T3. But i hope they get it right. Although I did engage in FW, my sentiments exactly. T3 looks good, a lot of the other stuff looks good as well, but it is about time, and CCP still has to deliver on that. I'll stick around for a while longer for that, but ... -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Zivoril	Posted - 2008.12.01 00:43:00 - [28] Edited by: Zivoril on 01/12/2008 00:46:08 Edited by: Zivoril on 01/12/2008 00:44:07 FIRST IN CAPITALS! Why does Karille- alway post in every post! It, because wether he is a he or she feels free to make a statmnet in everyfing thin said! I say patheitc!
Benedic The Aftermath	Posted - 2008.12.01 00:50:00 - [29] MSU doesn't mean much for the bottom line when most people have 2-3 alts that are sitting expired. I'm logging in around the same amount that I have for the past 2 years, very little. Yet I have 4 less subscribed accounts than 7 months ago.
Ordais	Posted - 2008.12.01 00:51:00 - [30] Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane Originally by: Ordais Well, lets be realistic here: its now a full year since some of us have seen anything new. Most of the ppl didnt get involved into EA-expansion (all the non pvp-ppl and all the 0.0 peeps), and the winter expansion also holds nothing really new (a ship more that has its limited purpose). So, in the end we have a full year of "nothing" and maybe that reflects on the numbers. I am sure thats also the reason why CCP realized they had to focus back on content for 2009, and bringing in T3 as soon as possible to give EVERYONE something new (PvP, Mission, Producers, Explorers). And i have to say, its time. I personaly can live with the status quo, but i still use my old raven (or navy raven) for missions, and T1-BS for fleets, and HACs for small-gangs. All the other stuff like Marauders, BlackOps, and what not didnt have a real impact on the core game. If you consider that we even go further back then a year without nothing new to the core elements of the game. So, lets see what happens after T3. But i hope they get it right. Although I did engage in FW, my sentiments exactly. T3 looks good, a lot of the other stuff looks good as well, but it is about time, and CCP still has to deliver on that. I'll stick around for a while longer for that, but ... Well, i always thought that after the implementation of Titans the previous, the FIRST vision of EVE was completed (sure FW was part of that vision too, but it always was some kind of SOON-thing). I, and i'm sure many others as well, where then in some kind of suspension waiting for new visions to come. Ambulation was anounced, but it was clear from the beginning that it would take 2-3 years to complete. But what for the time in between? EA came, and was a nice idea, but CCP lost the focus on that. Nothing new came to it, as if they were lacking ideas. Now, we have T3 as some kind of "damage control" i think. They surprised me with it and thats a good thing. But they will have to deliver now, not only T3, but then also complete Factional Warefare and get a new 0.0-soveregnity system in place. Its time to optimize on the core elements again, and expanding on them. Next thing i see is first a new 0.0-sov-system, then an integration of planets into the territorial control scheme. If that happens i'm sure 0.0 will again become something to aspire for because of the FUN involved. Today its just work with a limited benefit (just the moons).

annoing Fallen Angel's	Posted - 2008.12.01 01:01:00 - [31] Originally by: Essack Leadae Runescape 1.1M My 9yr old kid play Runescape. Even he considers it a bit too childish for him and he wants to play Eve or WoW. I wont pay for WoW but i'm not sure he can handle the compexity of Eve at 9 .. mind you, I need a miner .. hmmmmmm an idea has come to mind ..........
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.01 01:12:00 - [32] Originally by: annoing Originally by: Essack Leadae Runescape 1.1M My 9yr old kid play Runescape. Even he considers it a bit too childish for him and he wants to play Eve or WoW. I wont pay for WoW but i'm not sure he can handle the compexity of Eve at 9 .. mind you, I need a miner .. hmmmmmm an idea has come to mind .......... The sooner he starts, the sooner he'll learn.
Neesa Corrinne Rogue Shadow Squad Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.12.01 02:38:00 - [33] Honestly I prefer the population of 2005 with the game mechanics of QR.
Kessiaan Minmatar Army of One	Posted - 2008.12.01 02:41:00 - [34] Originally by: Malcanis Eve has been dying ever since I started playing. lol, I saw this thread title and thought the same thing. Lowsec and solo pvp have also been dying for a long time.
Ronha Ottrit Minmatar	Posted - 2008.12.01 03:11:00 - [35] Edited by: Ronha Ottrit on 01/12/2008 03:13:33 Edited by: Ronha Ottrit on 01/12/2008 03:13:02 Edited by: Ronha Ottrit on 01/12/2008 03:12:20 Originally by: MotherMoon also don't forget eve also has 40,000 extra trial accounts not counted towards the total. WoW has 13 million AoC has 190,000 Warhamnmer has 270,000 Final fantasy 11 has 110,000 City of heros has 60,000 EQ has 40,000 EQ2 has 38,000 Linage 1+2 have 1,000,000 players So eve is the 4th most popular mmorpg on the market, and the only one to show growth. the ONLY ONE. Where are you getting these numbers? I know for a fact FFXI recently censused around 400k subscribers.. EQ2 has atleast half a million... where are you getting these sub numbers? http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/guide/development/census/08/index.html
Shant City of Certitude Coalition of the ExtraOrdinary	Posted - 2008.12.01 09:36:00 - [36] Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane the box thingy Wait, what? /offtopic
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.12.01 09:41:00 - [37] Edited by: MotherMoon on 01/12/2008 09:42:34 Originally by: Ronha Ottrit Edited by: Ronha Ottrit on 01/12/2008 03:13:33 Edited by: Ronha Ottrit on 01/12/2008 03:13:02 Edited by: Ronha Ottrit on 01/12/2008 03:12:20 Originally by: MotherMoon also don't forget eve also has 40,000 extra trial accounts not counted towards the total. WoW has 13 million AoC has 190,000 Warhamnmer has 270,000 Final fantasy 11 has 110,000 City of heros has 60,000 EQ has 40,000 EQ2 has 38,000 Linage 1+2 have 1,000,000 players So eve is the 4th most popular mmorpg on the market, and the only one to show growth. the ONLY ONE. Where are you getting these numbers? I know for a fact FFXI recently censused around 400k subscribers.. EQ2 has atleast half a million... where are you getting these sub numbers? http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/guide/development/census/08/index.html there are more sites. also a game doesn't lost 150,000 accounts and then doesn't lose or gain any for 2-3 years, I don't buy it. but I could be wrong about FF11 /i can;t find the more resent charts, it's possible EQ2 grew, find me the info.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.12.01 09:50:00 - [38] Originally by: annoing My 9yr old kid play Runescape. Even he considers it a bit too childish for him and he wants to play Eve or WoW. I wont pay for WoW but i'm not sure he can handle the compexity of Eve at 9 .. mind you, I need a miner .. hmmmmmm an idea has come to mind .......... Yeah, why let the kid play something that could fit him nicely(WoW) due to selfish apprehensions on the game, and just make him a slave for dear ol papa My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.12.01 09:50:00 - [39] Gah... we're up to 42,000+ now? More people need to quit, get it back down to the quiet 20k it was when i joined ------------ Originally by: Nexus Kinnon I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
Erdiere Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.12.01 09:54:00 - [40] Originally by: annoing My 9yr old kid play Runescape. Even he considers it a bit too childish for him and he wants to play Eve or WoW. I wont pay for WoW but i'm not sure he can handle the compexity of Eve at 9 .. mind you, I need a miner .. hmmmmmm an idea has come to mind .......... ET voice activated Start popping roids!! ET voice deactivated

Alt MKII Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.01 09:57:00 - [41] 250,000 paying accounts. Peaks around 40ish thousands. Taking into consideration weekend warriors, casual/hardocore players and alt-R-us players, makes you wonder what is the actual number of real persons playing this game. With the number of multiple accounts going, I wouldn't be surprised that the real number is half that.
Shant City of Certitude Coalition of the ExtraOrdinary	Posted - 2008.12.01 10:05:00 - [42] C'mon, what's this, uh, "box thingy"?
Cairn Metalhand Swedish Aerospace Inc G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.12.01 10:21:00 - [43] Wait til after ambulation? I bet lots of people will be joining just because the haxxorz leet graphics that doublessly will be on adds everywhere, just like the ship graphics is on adds everywhere now.
Bartholomeus Crane Gallente The Crane Family	Posted - 2008.12.01 10:30:00 - [44] Originally by: Shant C'mon, what's this, uh, "box thingy"? EVE'll be available in retail stores soon through Atari, hence, EVE in a box. It may open up some new markets for EVE, people who otherwise would not buy the game. How much the effect of this will be is (to me) unclear, given the large number of TV spots and all, but it's bound to have some effect. -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Karille Gallente Cold Templars Templar Initiative	Posted - 2008.12.01 10:32:00 - [45] Originally by: Shant C'mon, what's this, uh, "box thingy"? 1. Cut a hole in a box. 2. Put your EVE in that box 3. ??? 4. Hope your PR department doesn't suck.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.12.01 10:41:00 - [46] Originally by: Alt MKII 250,000 paying accounts. Peaks around 40ish thousands. Taking into consideration weekend warriors, casual/hardocore players and alt-R-us players, makes you wonder what is the actual number of real persons playing this game. With the number of multiple accounts going, I wouldn't be surprised that the real number is half that. honestly it's the same with every mmorpg though, so really it's just nerds trying to make the make the whole market look mainstream :P
Shant City of Certitude Coalition of the ExtraOrdinary	Posted - 2008.12.01 10:59:00 - [47] Edited by: Shant on 01/12/2008 11:02:18 Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane Originally by: Shant C'mon, what's this, uh, "box thingy"? EVE'll be available in retail stores soon through Atari, hence, EVE in a box. It may open up some new markets for EVE, people who otherwise would not buy the game. How much the effect of this will be is (to me) unclear, given the large number of TV spots and all, but it's bound to have some effect. Copy. I thought for a moment it might be the (semi-? un-?)official Eve-Wiki that will be integrated into the igb, which was mentioned somewhere. Not that much of an expansion feature to go tooting about if that would've been the case. edit Yeah Eve in a box will bring nubs to New Eden, people like to touch and feel products in a store and also it will tap the impulse buy facet Ok, now, /offtopic
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.12.01 11:02:00 - [48] Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane EVE'll be available AGAIN in retail stores Fixed that hugs his own box My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Shant City of Certitude Coalition of the ExtraOrdinary	Posted - 2008.12.01 11:04:00 - [49] Edited by: Shant on 01/12/2008 11:05:05 Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane EVE'll be available AGAIN in retail stores Fixed that hugs his own box Ebayer detected edit /derail lol
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.12.01 11:05:00 - [50] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 01/12/2008 11:05:03 Originally by: Shant Ebayer detected 2003 person who bought his EVE in store detected you mean I also own an anarchy online box... My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.

Shant City of Certitude Coalition of the ExtraOrdinary	Posted - 2008.12.01 11:07:00 - [51] Edited by: Shant on 01/12/2008 11:08:43 Edited by: Shant on 01/12/2008 11:08:26 Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 01/12/2008 11:05:03 Originally by: Shant Ebayer detected 2003 person who bought his EVE in store detected you mean I also own an anarchy online box... Yeah I'm not being serious, doesn't happen that much in threads where you appear after the incident where the devs put up your grandma for sale along with some Eve stuff edit frickin spelling
Kessiaan Minmatar Army of One	Posted - 2008.12.01 11:25:00 - [52] Originally by: Ronha Ottrit Originally by: MotherMoon also don't forget eve also has 40,000 extra trial accounts not counted towards the total. WoW has 13 million AoC has 190,000 Warhamnmer has 270,000 Final fantasy 11 has 110,000 City of heros has 60,000 EQ has 40,000 EQ2 has 38,000 Linage 1+2 have 1,000,000 players So eve is the 4th most popular mmorpg on the market, and the only one to show growth. the ONLY ONE. Where are you getting these numbers? I know for a fact FFXI recently censused around 400k subscribers.. EQ2 has atleast half a million... where are you getting these sub numbers? http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/guide/development/census/08/index.html Yes, but do all those accounts play on the same server? I don't really understand why people throw around huge sub numbers like they're some kind of fun metric, when you can actually only interact with a tiny fraction of that, perhaps a few thousand.
Guttripper State War Academy	Posted - 2008.12.01 12:30:00 - [53] Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane On the other hand, older players are more demanding (they have other things to do) and are less easy to please, and are more sceptical. So they may stick around longer for the features that they want, but there is a threshold beyond they will simply leave when they think they aren't taken seriously. I agree and disagree with this point. Older players are more demanding of quality content, not quantity. Yes, they have less time to invest than their younger counterparts, but part of the appeal of Eve is the slow advancement without requiring that time investment. Without being too stereotypical, how many threads have been created demanding the Learning skill tree ("...give us +10 stats...") to the missile debate especially among Achura pilots do you feel were created by and supported by older players? To me, it seems the younger crowd, those spoiled by instant gratification from other online games, are seeking quantity to zerg rush through just to claim "first!" And since Eve is dying, what happened to all those open threats that since CCP took away the players' (God given) right to ghost train, they and their friends are taking their two dozen plus accounts to other games? Surely the charts should have presented a huge drop in subscribers, no? Would you claim that an older player, more likely holding a stable income, would react in such a fashion? Are older players more susceptible to "emorage" when they feel they are not taken seriously? I could be wrong; but I feel older players are demanding of quality, not quantity. They will allow more time to pass, and if presented with issues, are more prone to be civil about the matter. Of course, there are always exceptions on both sides of the age brackets.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.12.01 12:35:00 - [54] Every day is one day closer to EVE's last day. - DesuSigs
Schalac Caldari Apocalypse Reign	Posted - 2008.12.01 13:03:00 - [55] EVE does not get new accounts. It's either A.) Current player wants to do this and it takes 5 months to train into specialization. Well it's not needed on my main I'll just get an alt. or B.) 14 days have passed and the ISK sellers need new accounts so they can spam the rookie channel with their deals. That is all it is and ever will be now.
fuze Gallente Chosen Path Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2008.12.01 13:12:00 - [56] How about what happened with the GTC? And I don't think CCP would give us the numbers on that I suppose.
Frida Frogger	Posted - 2008.12.01 13:34:00 - [57] Edited by: Frida Frogger on 01/12/2008 13:35:23 We need to get something new. We need to get down on a planet, build a house, and skip around like some character in WoW with a flashy smurfblaster. :) Ahem! srsly... There can be new game rules on planets etc. I prefer no 1st person combat system , but invasions possible. Nuking armies of boarding troopers where players can ship troopers or shoot with guns on planet :D Maybe more sieges? we got some siege system already but its not much used or what?
Hopey Gallente L.O.S.T. Industries	Posted - 2008.12.01 14:28:00 - [58] Originally by: Frida Frogger Edited by: Frida Frogger on 01/12/2008 13:35:23 We need to get something new. We need to get down on a planet, build a house, and skip around like some character in WoW with a flashy smurfblaster. :) Ahem! srsly... There can be new game rules on planets etc. I prefer no 1st person combat system , but invasions possible. Nuking armies of boarding troopers where players can ship troopers or shoot with guns on planet :D Maybe more sieges? we got some siege system already but its not much used or what? they have already said a lot of this will be on the table after ambulation. \|~~~~~~~~~~~\| Hopey CEO & Founder, L.O.S.T. Industries \|~~~~\|
Frida Frogger	Posted - 2008.12.01 14:34:00 - [59] Quote: they have already said a lot of this will be on the table after ambulation. Yay!!! Sounds great I hope it will turn out so people can do pve/pvp related stuff within it. That means combining pvp and pve so pve-minded people also will have to pvp to survive. btw i like both aspects of a game
Bartholomeus Crane Gallente The Crane Family	Posted - 2008.12.02 12:28:00 - [60] Originally by: Guttripper I agree and disagree with this point. Older players are more demanding of quality content, not quantity. Yes, they have less time to invest than their younger counterparts, but part of the appeal of Eve is the slow advancement without requiring that time investment. Without being too stereotypical, how many threads have been created demanding the Learning skill tree ("...give us +10 stats...") to the missile debate especially among Achura pilots do you feel were created by and supported by older players? To me, it seems the younger crowd, those spoiled by instant gratification from other online games, are seeking quantity to zerg rush through just to claim "first!" And since Eve is dying, what happened to all those open threats that since CCP took away the players' (God given) right to ghost train, they and their friends are taking their two dozen plus accounts to other games? Surely the charts should have presented a huge drop in subscribers, no? Would you claim that an older player, more likely holding a stable income, would react in such a fashion? Are older players more susceptible to "emorage" when they feel they are not taken seriously? I could be wrong; but I feel older players are demanding of quality, not quantity. They will allow more time to pass, and if presented with issues, are more prone to be civil about the matter. Of course, there are always exceptions on both sides of the age brackets. Just a couple remarks. First, the posters on this forum do not represent the playerbase. I used to be in a corps with a lot of older players. Even older than I am. None of them posted on the forums. They had neither the time nor the inclination to do so. Second, the learning skill issue is an abomination, most players agree, and CCP agrees as well. On the other hand, there is now no fair way to get rid of it. Third, what happened after the ghost-training thing is that a lot of players probably contracted their number of subscriptions, putting their trained up alts on one subscription. The probably play those alts the same amount of time as before. The players on server metric doesn't measure that. Most of the emoragequiters never really did any quitting anyway, and again, these were forum actives, which do not represent the playerbase. But without an active subscriber graph, we'll never know if this had an effect. I agree though that older players demand quality over quantity and are more civil over changes. That doesn't reduce the fact that EVE's gameplay has gone a bit stale. T3 and WiS will probably change that, but there are other things out there that need to be addressed as well, Sovereignty, POS warfare, NPC AI. These have been long overdue for change as well. -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Illwill Bill Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.12.02 12:38:00 - [61] Eve isn't dying - it's whining!
Squably Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.12.02 13:21:00 - [62] its dead again? how many lives does eve have lol it died so many times now Signature removed. Please do not imply profanity in your signature. Navigator
Anomara	Posted - 2008.12.02 18:06:00 - [63] One of the problems with low growth is that it gets harder and harder for new players to do PvP if 95% of the players in space have 2 years of training advantage on him. (I know you can tackle with a T1 frig but how much fun is that really?) Subscription growth is thus needed so a good supply of similarly trained/skilled players are available for new players to fight so that they do not give up in their 3rd month of play.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.12.02 18:25:00 - [64] Edited by: Janu Hull on 02/12/2008 18:24:58 Originally by: Anomara One of the problems with low growth is that it gets harder and harder for new players to do PvP if 95% of the players in space have 2 years of training advantage on him. (I know you can tackle with a T1 frig but how much fun is that really?) Subscription growth is thus needed so a good supply of similarly trained/skilled players are available for new players to fight so that they do not give up in their 3rd month of play. The obvious counterargument to the "two year head start" is "diminishing returns". You can train a skill from level 1 to level 3 in the time it takes to train from 3 to level 4, and from level 1 to 4 in the time it takes to train a skill from 4 to 5. A player with two years of skill advantage probably doesn't have more than a 10-25% advantage across the board, which is significant on a 1 to 1 basis, but how often does this game ever come down to one on one, except in the mind of someone about to get seriously ganked for stupidity? Slightly more subtle is considering that a player with 30 or 40 million skill points is pretty damned dangerous with a fair array of ships, but he can only fly one at a time, so against someone just passing the ten million mark who's focused himself on getting good at one particular ship is probably not so gimped as you might imagine. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.


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