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Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2008.12.03 01:30:00 -
[61]
This may be pure heresy, but what if you used the MWD bonus and orbited at long range with rails on? going fast enough at a long enough distance it would be very hard to hit, speed tanking it in a way.
I've never flown a HAC so please tell me if that wouldn't work for some reason.
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Joachim Kato
LDK
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Posted - 2008.12.03 01:40:00 -
[62]
OK, now that was a serious K.O. - looked like a Gozilla knock out a 5 year old (Gozilla would be Vrabac and the 5 year old would be.... well, you know who you are). 
Aniways, back to ze topic - I fly deimos (only instead of "diemost", i call it "dpsmost") and I can tell you that it's an awesome boat in gang. Solo it can be turned off with 1 med neut in some time, but if we are talking about 1 vs 1 (considering its not battleship), that guy whos neuting is prolly dead in 40 (if thats dual reppin hac, its prolly dead in 20 or less than that) secs aniways and with new mwd you can get more cap than you originaly have if we are talking about half decent mwd such as t2 version.
Deimos is completely fine in my book. What is not fine tho are people who wanna fit neutrons, mwd, dual rep, over 9k mm plate and they need a 4th mid for a cap injector with additional grid and cpu to fit it. Get over it, there are no solo pwnmobiles - every ship has a weak point: vaga cant kill a **** if its not in belt and not crapily fitted + tanking tripple bs spawn, rapier cant kill a ****, cuz it has less dps than interceptor, bs cant kill a ****, cuz it cant lock a ****, but deimos can kill anyone if its correctly set up and the target hasnt got serious amount of neuts. How come rapier and vaga are perfectly fine altho they cant do most of the things and have counters yet they are fine, but deimos is wrong, cuz it can deal 700 dps, can mwd, wd, web....
OH WAIT!!!1 NOW I GET IT!!!1 You wanna kill without dieing - typical ganker mentality right there.
Glad yer done with ze thread tbh. 
P.S. I usually wouldnt post, but this made me smile how one dude totally proved you all wrong inna nice manner and still made some fun and made you look completely tarded inna process of being a nice fella.
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BiggestT
Caldari
Resurrection
Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.12.03 02:46:00 -
[63]
 Originally by: Knawt Ongrid
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Originally by: Knawt Ongrid
bla bla usuall matar whine
try out caldari ships before you say how good they are, they arent
I bet you wont even train for caldari because you know matar ships >> caldari ships especially in pvp
Oh but I have, it's called alts. Rather like my Caldari ships. What's not to like. Experience less fitting problems with them than with any other race. Not a single role that can't be filled very well, except solo. But so many people didn't get the memo, CCP does not want solo ships. So, I also laugh at all the non-Caldari whines of non-Caldari players that are crying over their diminishing ability to solo.
Btw, cute that your alt Caldari booster forum poster is Amarr.
Id believe you if any one of your arguments actually made sense.
Your talking about ships being good for pve makes them balanced..lol?
Your saying that the hawk is good..(rivaling minmi af's!)??? dbl lol!
And i wont even bother with your other comments...
EVE history
t2 precisions |
Amarr'd
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.12.03 03:20:00 -
[64]
Originally by: suza
It really is that simple, a stabber can keep you at 19km all day and hit big holes using auto's and barrage ammo.
This was still the same pre QR
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.12.03 04:13:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 03/12/2008 00:37:49
Originally by: Derek Sigres
The problem with this suggestion is once the ship is inside blaster range the fight is already over in favor of the Deimos.
That is the kind of the whole idea of the deimos.
Yes, the diemos is supposed to be a brutal, close range slugger. If the HAC's are supposed to explempify the ethos of the race (such as the ishtar as the penultimate example of the mobile, flexible drone spewing monster or the Cerberus' long reach and nasty bite) then we find the trouble with the Deimos: for the price and job being done there is little reason to use it over the Brutix.
The changes you suggest effective mean that the Deimos is an utter death sentence should it close within range. Without the ability to effectively target and track the ship only battleships have an effective defensive measure agains the ship: the heavy neutralizer, and even then the presence of a cap booster would offset the neut effectively enoungh to ensure the Deimos could handily rip apart almost any battleship by itself.
Worst of all the change does little to address the actual issues the Deimos suffers, namely the simple fact that it is too slow to effectively close range with it's mobile peers and it carries substantially less firepower than it's hardier cousin the Brutix. Giant and unprecedented bonuses to AB speed usage is hardly the answer. I believe we can find a solution in a simpler fashion.
First, we have the extraneous high slot. In the grand scheme of what the Deimos is supposed to represent it adds nothing. If the slot is moved to the mid, the Deimos has teh ability to carry the holy trinity of PVP along with a cap booster - certainly a plus. If it's moved to the low you can substantilly increase the ability of the ship to shrug off damage. Second, we have the double damage bonus. Instead of having a strict "blasters do more damage" one of the bonuses should simply be changed to an equal ROF bonus - the result is of course a noticable increase in DPS, bringing it to an almost equal level as that of the Brutix. By offsetting the firepower difference and potentially increasing the tanking ability of the Deimos, you are left with a vessel that is clearly superior in many applications to the Brutix. The Brutix would be relegated to the same place most BC's sit when compared to their HAC cousins - somewhat hardier but substantially cheaper investments for PVP, all without granting near invulnerability to the Deimos.
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
Lotto Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.12.03 05:04:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Vrabac
Now now. You're the one fitting RCUs and pg rigs on it. I wouldn't tell others they have no real knowledge on something if I were you. 
I said I wouldn't respond to you, but I'll respond to this.
That deimos was orig. a 250 rail gate camp deimos I had sitting for nearly 2 years. I had it nearby when a friend asked for help, so I fit what I had. Given what showed up it didn't make a difference. =/
My usual blaster setup is more like this:
2x trimarks
2x ion 2s
small diminishing (mostly for heatsink)
3x neut 2s
faint ep warp scram
fleeting
y-t8
DCU2
800 tung
and then either 2x EANM2 and 2x MS2 or 1x EANM2 and 3x MS2
I run slaves so even with an 800 I get 50K EHP, and I generally prefer it to a 1600 plate setup.
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"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
Lotto Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.12.03 05:46:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 03/12/2008 05:47:27
Originally by: Derek Sigres
The changes you suggest effective mean that the Deimos is an utter death sentence should it close within range. Without the ability to effectively target and track the ship only battleships have an effective defensive measure agains the ship: the heavy neutralizer, and even then the presence of a cap booster would offset the neut effectively enoungh to ensure the Deimos could handily rip apart almost any battleship by itself.
20% certainly could prove to be too much, but that is what testing is for. Let us also not forget that an AB vaga can already do speeds comparable to what an AB boosted deimos would do. The deimos would simply be better in the dmg department.
Quote:
Worst of all the change does little to address the actual issues the Deimos suffers, namely the simple fact that it is too slow to effectively close range with it's mobile peers and it carries substantially less firepower than it's hardier cousin the Brutix.
Yes, brutix has more firepower than a deimos. The harbi also has substantially more firepower than the zealot, but it manages to separate itself from the harbinger quite wonderfully.
Quote:
Giant and unprecedented bonuses to AB speed usage is hardly the answer.
It gives the deimos an area the brutix can't fill.
Quote:
If the slot is moved...
I see where you're going with this, but ~60 dps and losing a utility/heatsink for a low are NOT going to fix the deimos. Better? Yep. Fixed, nope.
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"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Vanthropy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.03 07:51:00 -
[68]
if it really sux so damn bad.. then how****it's not cheap as heck like inties are now?
"SPEED + GANK = SPANK... Spank that ***** up" |
Precisionist
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Posted - 2008.12.03 12:09:00 -
[69]
some of these bozos dont know sht about ship setups or the stuff u can, deimos for point blank gank is good for speed and gang, rail deimos is not bad dont have the dmg output but it can do some stuff put a 24km scramb and a fast mwd maybe a overdrive and a cap booster. if u really need a web put 2 webbing drones or use ecm or cap neut med drones wutever or 5 small warr II's 1 web something of that sort its a good ship got to keep a open mind, most ppl mad cause its not the all dmging hack that can tank bs's at point range and have no cap cause of large neuts.
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Crellion
Art of War
Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.12.03 12:22:00 -
[70]
Too many people posting here who do not understand what this ship is or what it is supposed to be doing.
Why don't you go wash some dishes or something???
And take Vanthropy with you, the idiot who thinks a Munnin is fine because its more expensive than an Inty...LOL
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.12.03 12:35:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Joachim Kato
Aniways, back to ze topic - I fly deimos (only instead of "diemost", i call it "dpsmost")
Kinda ironic, calling it the "dpsmost", when both the Brutix and Myrm casually outdamage it, and in gang the force projection capability of blasters is crippled by the need to MWD up to your target.
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Joachim Kato
LDK
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Posted - 2008.12.03 14:24:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Joachim Kato
Aniways, back to ze topic - I fly deimos (only instead of "diemost", i call it "dpsmost")
Kinda ironic, calling it the "dpsmost", when both the Brutix and Myrm casually outdamage it, and in gang the force projection capability of blasters is crippled by the need to MWD up to your target.
Ummm.... Battleship can outdamage brutix or myrm - so whats exactly your point? I mean sure, dread in siege can outdamage battleship yer completely right and yet whats yer point? Are you saying that deimos sux, cuz larger vessel with more turrets can outdamage smaller one - SHIEEET.... now that was unexpected, aye?
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Razor Blue
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Posted - 2008.12.11 09:17:00 -
[73]
Well... First, im atm training for the HACs so i have limited experience of them. So im in a situation of choosing Deimos or Ishtar. Altho Deimos might have problems im still going to go with it.
Why people want move 1 high slot into mid slot? True that this would add more flexibility and make the ship more soloable. Seriously now... Flexibility and soloing are the Ishtars trademarks, right?
Deimos is supposed to be "the ultimate close-range blaster cruiser." As the description says.
So heres suggestions that i didnt see in this thread:
 Change the +10% falloff bonus to +10% armor hp bonus
Move 1 mid into low 
Yes, only 2 mids will effectively murder all soloing capabilities, but for soloing you have the Ishtar.
With the armor hp bonus no plates or smaller plates would be needed, keeping the ship more agile/faster than Brutix and the MWD bonus would be more useful. While 7 lows give the ability fit high resistance and damage mods.
Its almost like the whole ship has been designed with Minmatar ideology: Forget the electronic gadgetry and mount as much firepower as possible. Deimos having high dps and close range will always make it top primary, so it needs strong armor.
I dont think Deimos would be overpowered with these changes, because it would be pretty much useless without a gang.
Yea / Nay ?
Flame away...
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Haalanii
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Posted - 2008.12.11 10:09:00 -
[74]
I want to like the ship. I really do.
However, the situations I find myself in always are such that I am better off in an Ishtar (if I have isk) or a Brutix (if I am poor).
I feel the thorax has some level of balance against the vexor. Sadly, at the T2 level the drone-boat gains a whole lot more than the blaster-boat does.
HACs that fight outside web/scram range are less vulnerable than those that do. Those that do need to be good enough in this high-risk area to justify building and flying them. Currently it is my opinion that the Deimos costs far too much for what it is capable of. It is purchased by a few die-hard fans that have some special use for it and many players who have not considered other options carefully enough.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.12.11 10:13:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Joachim Kato
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Joachim Kato
Aniways, back to ze topic - I fly deimos (only instead of "diemost", i call it "dpsmost")
Kinda ironic, calling it the "dpsmost", when both the Brutix and Myrm casually outdamage it, and in gang the force projection capability of blasters is crippled by the need to MWD up to your target.
Ummm.... Battleship can outdamage brutix or myrm - so whats exactly your point? I mean sure, dread in siege can outdamage battleship yer completely right and yet whats yer point? Are you saying that deimos sux, cuz larger vessel with more turrets can outdamage smaller one - SHIEEET.... now that was unexpected, aye?
Myrm and Brutix aren't battleships.
Given that the Brutix and a gank Myrm have exactly the same role as a Deimos, are used in exactly the same fashion and have the same size guns, yes, I am indeed saying that "deimos sux" as you so eloquently put it.
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RisingDragon
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Posted - 2008.12.11 16:02:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Razor Blue
So heres suggestions that i didnt see in this thread:
Change the +10% falloff bonus to +10% armor hp bonus
Move 1 mid into low
Yea / Nay ?
Flame away...
I quite like the 10% hp per level idea as it would give around 3825 hp without plates, but losing that third mid is too much bearing in mind it currently really needs 4 mids to solo well. I think a current gang fit deimos may end up using dual webs and an mwd with no scram. Dropping the useless 6th high for an extra low would be a much better idea. Many deimos pilots (myself included), only fit a mod in the 6th high as a heat sink for overloading.
However I also really like the afterburner bonus as well, if bonuses were changed to tracking and afterburner boost as discussed previously we could be on to a winner. A pilot with high nav and hac skills could effectively leave the afterburner on during a fight to negate the effect of being webbed, th skill being judgin between going fast to tank but also slow enough to track.
Previously people moaned that taking away the mwd bonus for the repping bonus would make it too much like other ships, how unique and also highly ironic would it be if post QR, one of the most viable hacs for speed tanking (albeit withing web range) was a blaster fit deimos!! The great thing is, you would still have to be nuts to fly it as your tank can be easily beaten with webs of which you are in range of.
If CCP announced they were looking back into buffing the deimos i'd have a very very happy christmas! (Hint Hint)
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Seibicoe
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Posted - 2008.12.11 16:43:00 -
[77]
One of the problems with the Deimos as I see it is that people insist on fitting neutrons on it even at the expense of fitting loads of PG mods and rigs, if you down size the turrets you can plate it up fit trimarks and get over 55k ehp and over 500dps (with null) and still 300+ m/sec faster than a plated and trimarked BC and still have much better agility. It may not be ideal for chasing down nimble HACs like the zealot but its a match for tankier HACs and HICs and in a gang would help to ruin a BC or BS pilots day.
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