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Skill lost do to a clone being inproper.

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Floundere	Posted - 2008.12.01 10:00:00 - [1] Edited by: Floundere on 01/12/2008 10:09:28 Kinda works like this, There are times one finds themselves in the heat of battle in eve. For some of us it is often and we like it that way and don't want or need heavy penalty for our blood lust. So big fleet fight happens you get podded and you find yourself at that lovely station looking at a new clone so you can get right back out there. Now for what ever reason you have a selection of useless clone opportunities. For the guy on the fly and that also uses alts on separate accounts this is detrimental. You select a clone by accident, you are tired, wore down and your enemy is knocking at your front door. The accident you have selected has absolutely no effect because it is under what your skill points are. Instead that clone exactly matches your mining alts sp needs not your mains sp needs. You make 7 jumps get back into the fight manage to get podded gloriously again. Only this time you also get this great message informing you that you have lost bs lvl 5. You say WTF! I bought a clone? What I am getting at is why are you taking isk form me for something that does not work? Is there modules you can buy cheap that don't work at all? I don't think so. Now with this none functioning game mechanic you are not only taking isk but my time to retrain. That to me = RL $. Please eliminate the option to buy useless clones from our list. Why not just say your new clone will cost X-amount, allowing me to do what I want to and fight. For all it is worth can someone explain to me why there are different lvls of clones anyway? isk sink maybe? 1-3 million does squat to a 4 year veterans bank roll. ? Selling me something useless is not acceptable to have in a game especially if it comes with such a heavy toll to the player. I think it needs to be changed and fixed maybe even get rid of clone charging if there is truly no reason for it.
CrayC Gallente CrayC Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.01 10:56:00 - [2] Edited by: CrayC on 01/12/2008 11:06:14 Edit: Totally misunderstood the post, so my previous explanation was irrelevant. Long story short: It's there for roleplaying reasons, like it or not. It's part of the game that you must make a choice on this matter...
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance OWN Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.01 12:38:00 - [3] Suppose if you were skint you could buy the best clone possible, but didnt match your SP. Then when you died you wouldn't lose as much SP as if you just used the free clone. Don't PvP if you are so tired you cannot remember how many SP you have. Its a gameplay mechanic ment to make podding painful and good for the enemy to do.
Gonzo Hadron Gracious Bodily Harm	Posted - 2008.12.01 13:49:00 - [4] No wonder you're dying so much if you can't even upgrade your clone properly.
Slave 775 Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.01 15:40:00 - [5] Originally by: Gonzo Hadron No wonder you're dying so much if you can't even upgrade your clone properly. Nearly fell from my chair laughing. EVE ONLINE Adapt or die ? more like: go and whine on the ForumsÖ
Maleckii Gallente Kismet Foundation Exxxotic	Posted - 2008.12.01 15:50:00 - [6] Your argument would make sense, if not for several caveats: First of all, when you buy a clone your current character's SP is displayed IN THE CLONE PURCHASE WINDOW. You don't have to memorize now many SP you have; it's right there in the window. Even from a roleplaying prospective this makes sense. In clones, you get what you pay for: cheaper clones do not perform as well, and are not grown with the same high standards as more expensive clones. The ISK that is taken from you is significantly less than if you had bought a higher grade clone, so you aren't "losing" money at all: you are simply getting what you pay for. As far as I'm aware, the chance of you losing skill points depends on how good the grade of the clone is compared to how many SP you have. For example, if I have 10 mil SP and have a 9.8 mil SP clone, there is a relatively low chance that I will lose SP when I die. Some people prefer to save a bit of ISK by having a slightly lesser grade clone than they're currently worth. ---------- word.
Snuffer Smith	Posted - 2008.12.01 16:02:00 - [7] Originally by: Maleckiir. Some people prefer to save a bit of ISK by having a slightly lesser grade clone than they're currently worth.[/quote Really? And your evidence for this is? Who the hell likes to save a bit of isk and retrain his or her latest 30 day level 5? Perhaps you could supply a list of their names and addresses? I call BS on this.
Jaabaa Prime Minmatar Quam Singulari Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2008.12.01 17:17:00 - [8] Originally by: Snuffer Smith Originally by: Maleckii Some people prefer to save a bit of ISK by having a slightly lesser grade clone than they're currently worth. Really? And your evidence for this is? Who the hell likes to save a bit of isk and retrain his or her latest 30 day level 5? Perhaps you could supply a list of their names and addresses? I call BS on this. What Snuffer said. If you save ISK on a clone then you are just asking to reinvest training time getting your lost skill(s) back. --
Floundere	Posted - 2008.12.01 18:14:00 - [9] Quote: Some people prefer to save a bit of ISK by having a slightly lesser grade clone than they're currently worth. As far as I know there is no one on eve who enjoys waiting 20 some odd days to relearn a skill. So buying a cheaper clone to save on isk is a crazy notion. Also if we are going by the role playing argument, that should bring player cost to clone to nothing. The reason being, in eve stories that are read right on the eve site cloning is way to costly for the individual player to afford. It is such a costly endeavor that only empires can afford it. So pls don't thrown this stuff at me cause Role playing has nothing to do with a broke feature.
Epi Talis	Posted - 2008.12.01 18:47:00 - [10] Pay more attention ingame, and whine less out of game. Issue solved
Serina Blight	Posted - 2008.12.01 19:10:00 - [11] Edited by: Serina Blight on 01/12/2008 19:10:43 Originally by: Floundere Also if we are going by the role playing argument, that should bring player cost to clone to nothing. The reason being, in eve stories that are read right on the eve site cloning is way to costly for the individual player to afford. It is such a costly endeavor that only empires can afford it. So pls don't thrown this stuff at me cause Role playing has nothing to do with a broke feature. Actualy, most habitant of the Eve universe can't afford it. Pod pilot on the other hand are so rich that they can afford a clone. Their is maybe 5 million individuals that have the isk to buy a clone out of the hundred of billion of people living in the eve universe. Remember that if a car (planetary vehicle) cost around 5000 isk, spending 40k isk on the cheapest clone and million on the most expensive is a lot of cash. Plus its not everyone that can have a brain scanner attach almost 24h/day. Quote: While new techniques in clone creation and retransplantation have made the process cheaper and more efficient today than ever before, the inherent unreliability of non-capsule cloning and the still-extravagant cost involved for prospective clients effectively prohibits the vast majority of planetside inhabitants from considering it an option. ps: its a shame for your knowledge lost
Yalezorn Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.01 19:37:00 - [12] So you weren't paying attention, screwed up, and are trying to make a case that the game is broken? Either don't pvp, or look at what you're clicking on. Not the games fault in any way.
Floundere	Posted - 2008.12.01 19:43:00 - [13] I still don't care about roll playing. If we follow every little roll playing tip and tidbit that was brought up eve would be a mess and not half the game it is today. Sorry mate but players have helped form the game into something playable not eve lore. Since some seem to think that it's a useful option, I would like to take this opportunity to unload some 99% damaged amarr laser crystals on the market.... oh wait I can't cause they are still useless to the eve player base. I am trying to remove useless items not keep them the way they are. Lets get back on point.
Epi Talis	Posted - 2008.12.01 19:49:00 - [14] Its a money sink, mmo's need money sinks. It benefits you and me and everyone else playing in the long term. It is also another part of immersion and depth which makes eve what it is. If its too much effort for you to click 3 buttons after death no one here can really help you, apologies.
CrayC Gallente CrayC Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.01 20:01:00 - [15] Originally by: Floundere I am trying to remove useless items not keep them the way they are. Lets get back on point. Alright, let's stick to the point then. 99% damaged laser crystals are NOT useless. You can still fire them, even if it's only for 1 shot, they still are of use. Clones of various degrees are NOT useless. You are playing a game where there is a lot of risk and you have to take responsibility for your actions. You can actually lose stuff here, as opposed to most other MMOs. One of the things you risk, is your skilltraining, should you pick an inadequate clone. Just because something may seem useless to YOU, doesn't mean there is no reason for it's existance. I don't see a reason for warp core stabilizers, but some people think it protects them. Some people don't see a reason for EM drones. I use them a lot. And so on...
Floundere	Posted - 2008.12.01 20:05:00 - [16] My personal error lost me the sp, fine I have excepted that. I wonder how many actually read the thread? It is an idea thread not a complaint thread, For all the warning and pop up screens that I have seen in eve this should be one of them. Something like "Warning the clone you have chosen does not cover your current sp". Maybe have it scale, if the clone is 500 points away from your current sp remove it from purchase option. What I am getting at is there are very few ways to mess up in eve and it happens to everyone. Altering the cloning option menu so that you can not make a mistake is not going to hurt the player base just make them happy. Try to keep it constructive, if you feel the need for a personal attack head to CAOD.
Jaabaa Prime Minmatar Quam Singulari Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2008.12.01 20:18:00 - [17] Originally by: Floundere My personal error lost me the sp, fine I have excepted that. I wonder how many actually read the thread? It is an idea thread not a complaint thread, For all the warning and pop up screens that I have seen in eve this should be one of them. Something like "Warning the clone you have chosen does not cover your current sp". Maybe have it scale, if the clone is 500 points away from your current sp remove it from purchase option. What I am getting at is there are very few ways to mess up in eve and it happens to everyone. Altering the cloning option menu so that you can not make a mistake is not going to hurt the player base just make them happy. Next thing you'll be asking for is "Auto-Clone" services. The client helps you in loads of respects, but upgrading your clone is an option. If you can't read the screen and see how many SPs you need to cover, why should the client warn you ? BTW, this post was more concise and ideas are THIS WAY ----> --
Floundere	Posted - 2008.12.01 20:24:00 - [18] Well lets hope the mod moves it then. Quote: f you can't read the screen and see how many SPs you need to cover, why should the client warn you ? Why shouldn't it?
Epi Talis	Posted - 2008.12.01 20:34:00 - [19] I enjoy escalating-heat of the moment angry whine posts which the op tries to save by argueing with every person contradicting his ******ed ideas. It wastes the hours very well.
Snuffer Smith	Posted - 2008.12.01 23:30:00 - [20] Originally by: Floundere Well lets hope the mod moves it then. Quote: f you can't read the screen and see how many SPs you need to cover, why should the client warn you ? Why shouldn't it? So by that logic the game should warn you every time you try to undock in a ship you can't afford to replace... Dude, we all feel your pain on this and I'm sorry it happened but once the pain fades a little and you re-read this thread you'll see what a whine it is.
Felix Macey	Posted - 2009.01.07 19:12:00 - [21] Just having a warning when undocking that your clone is out of date would be great. I've never lost a clone with too few saved skill point but I have undocked when eager to get back to the fight. It is far too easy to do!
acs Sacred Templars	Posted - 2009.01.07 21:17:00 - [22] Originally by: Floundere Well lets hope the mod moves it then. Quote: f you can't read the screen and see how many SPs you need to cover, why should the client warn you ? Why shouldn't it? Imagine you've been podded and you find yourself in the station seconds after. Your clone by then will automatically be the 800.000 SP-version, i.e. a clone holding less SP than you currently have trained for. If you choose to undock immediately, should be game then also warn you about that? My friend, that is one of the many "risks" players in Eve are subjected to. I'm justing pointing out that the warning: your clone is out of date-mechanic you're talking about would take away exactly that. I'm sorry for your loss of SP, but really - learn from it instead; put yellow post-it notes on your monitor. Anything that works for you.
Greek Dionysus	Posted - 2009.01.07 23:54:00 - [23] Honesty a pop-up saying your clone is out of date that can be disabled like nearly everything else would be nice. My main has only once ever got podded without a clone. Otho my alt that I hardly play was recently podded, unkowningly I had no clone in. lost 12 days of training. Just a pop-up that could be disabled by a little checkbox would be nice, Or at least if only pops up if your only at a basic clone. That way it limits it to freshly podded people, and not people who forget to update their clone as their SPs increase.
Lui Kai Better Than You	Posted - 2009.01.08 00:16:00 - [24] In answer to the "What's the point of lower clones at all??" question - If podded with an out of date clone, you don't just lose "X level of Y skill" The game takes your current SP, subtracts the clone's SP, then takes 5% of that amount. It then looks at the highest SP/level you have, and removes that 5% from there, to a max of a full rank. So, if your clone was only slightly out of date - 10k SP - the loss is negligable. If your clone is 30M sp out of date, the loss is surprise buttsex.
hellsknights SniggWaffe	Posted - 2009.01.08 10:29:00 - [25] This is all i gotta say.....LOL
Gadawan	Posted - 2009.01.08 10:45:00 - [26] Originally by: Yalezorn So you weren't paying attention, screwed up, and are trying to make a case that the game is broken? Either don't pvp, or look at what you're clicking on. Not the games fault in any way. Man I hate the 'not the games foult' idiots plaguing this forum... Your thinking is even more ridiculously stupid than those in the 'no skill queue' gang. The suggestion in OP is very good and should be implemented.
Gadawan	Posted - 2009.01.08 10:51:00 - [27] Originally by: CrayC Originally by: Floundere I am trying to remove useless items not keep them the way they are. Lets get back on point. Alright, let's stick to the point then. 99% damaged laser crystals are NOT useless. You can still fire them, even if it's only for 1 shot, they still are of use. Clones of various degrees are NOT useless. You are playing a game where there is a lot of risk and you have to take responsibility for your actions. You can actually lose stuff here, as opposed to most other MMOs. One of the things you risk, is your skilltraining, should you pick an inadequate clone. Just because something may seem useless to YOU, doesn't mean there is no reason for it's existance. I don't see a reason for warp core stabilizers, but some people think it protects them. Some people don't see a reason for EM drones. I use them a lot. And so on... Lets have a check box for hiding the clones which are out of date so you can still get kicks for selecting the right clone, without cheating, like the smart boy you are!
Rayban Aviator	Posted - 2009.01.08 11:36:00 - [28] This. For whining.
Draeca Tharri and Co.	Posted - 2009.01.08 15:36:00 - [29] Originally by: Snuffer Smith So by that logic the game should warn you every time you try to undock in a ship you can't afford to replace... Eve meets Windows Warning: Your ship looks quite expensive, are you sure you want to undock? ___
Shaen Vesuvius	Posted - 2009.01.09 14:38:00 - [30] Its not such a bad idea to have a warning window pop up to warn of the risk. I mean, you get a pop up when you do something trivial like repackage an item. Why not a pop up when you put yourself at risk of losing SP?
Greek Dionysus	Posted - 2009.01.09 17:23:00 - [31] To the above poster, just to add on that, Make it only if you have more then 900,000 SP and a basic clone, then the message pop up. But under only those circumstances, not when you simple forgot to update your clone with a better one to fit all your SP in. And the message can be disabled, like nearly everything else. Problem solved and everyone is happy.
Dahak2150 Chaos Monkeys	Posted - 2009.01.09 19:43:00 - [32] You didn't lose the skill due to the clone being improper, you lost it due to you being a moron.
Grarr Dexx Amarr Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.09 20:15:00 - [33] Originally by: Dahak2150 You didn't lose the skill due to the clone being improper, you lost it due to you being a moron. Ka-ding. Take it like a man. ----- Nexus stamps of approvalÖ count: 1
Cilvius Sanctus Gallente The Order of Chivalry Nex Eternus	Posted - 2009.01.10 02:07:00 - [34] Originally by: Lui Kai In answer to the "What's the point of lower clones at all??" question - If podded with an out of date clone, you don't just lose "X level of Y skill" The game takes your current SP, subtracts the clone's SP, then takes 5% of that amount. It then looks at the highest SP/level you have, and removes that 5% from there, to a max of a full rank. So, if your clone was only slightly out of date - 10k SP - the loss is negligable. If your clone is 30M sp out of date, the loss is surprise buttsex. OP, the above post (aside from making me laugh hysterically) is the answer to why the lower grade clones still appear.
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa Minmatar The Perfect Harvesting Experience	Posted - 2009.01.10 19:53:00 - [35] Warning: You have started a session of EVE, be prepared for some serious spanking. ----------------------------------------------- Originally by: Paper Rock's fine, nerf Scissors
Draeca Tharri and Co.	Posted - 2009.01.10 20:44:00 - [36] Originally by: Shaen Vesuvius I mean, you get a pop up when you do something trivial like repackage an item. Without that popup it would be possible to accidentally repackage your rigged ship.
Marine HK4861 Caldari Radical Technologies	Posted - 2009.01.11 14:04:00 - [37] Originally by: Lui Kai If podded with an out of date clone, you don't just lose "X level of Y skill" The game takes your current SP, subtracts the clone's SP, then takes 5% of that amount. It then looks at the highest SP/level you have, and removes that 5% from there, to a max of a full rank. All correct except that the maximum loss is capped to 50% of the skill, not one rank. It was one rank prior to Revelations. Since then it's been 50% (last tested on the current Tranquillity build).
Grarr Dexx Amarr Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.11 21:48:00 - [38] Originally by: Marine HK4861 Originally by: Lui Kai If podded with an out of date clone, you don't just lose "X level of Y skill" The game takes your current SP, subtracts the clone's SP, then takes 5% of that amount. It then looks at the highest SP/level you have, and removes that 5% from there, to a max of a full rank. All correct except that the maximum loss is capped to 50% of the skill, not one rank. It was one rank prior to Revelations. Since then it's been 50% (last tested on the current Tranquillity build). I lost 61%. ----- Nexus stamps of approvalÖ count: 1
Marine HK4861 Caldari Radical Technologies	Posted - 2009.01.12 00:32:00 - [39] Originally by: Grarr Dexx All correct except that the maximum loss is capped to 50% of the skill, not one rank. It was one rank prior to Revelations. Since then it's been 50% (last tested on the current Tranquillity build). I lost 61%. I advise you to double check your numbers. Note that the 50% is of the ENTIRE skill, so if losing the full amount from a rank 8 skill (2.048 million SP), that'd be 1.024 million SP. This is 61% of level 4 to level 5, NOT 61% of the entire skill: SP from level 4 to level 5 in a rank 8: 1,685,961 SP. SP loss (1,024,000) / 1,685,961 = 61%.
Grarr Dexx Amarr Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.12 06:26:00 - [40] Originally by: Marine HK4861 Originally by: Grarr Dexx All correct except that the maximum loss is capped to 50% of the skill, not one rank. It was one rank prior to Revelations. Since then it's been 50% (last tested on the current Tranquillity build). I lost 61%. I advise you to double check your numbers. Note that the 50% is of the ENTIRE skill, so if losing the full amount from a rank 8 skill (2.048 million SP), that'd be 1.024 million SP. This is 61% of level 4 to level 5, NOT 61% of the entire skill: SP from level 4 to level 5 in a rank 8: 1,685,961 SP. SP loss (1,024,000) / 1,685,961 = 61%. Guess you could be right, Medium Energy Turret. ----- Nexus stamps of approvalÖ count: 1
Marine HK4861 Caldari Radical Technologies	Posted - 2009.01.12 17:28:00 - [41] Originally by: Grarr Dexx Guess you could be right, Medium Energy Turret. Going to need more info than that. When you're podded without an up to date clone, you get an EVEmail listing how much SP was lost and from what skill. Listing that, along with the SP in Medium Energy Turret before and after the podding, how much SP you had before the podding and what quality clone you had, would show you that my numbers are correct.
Writ Insand	Posted - 2009.01.13 19:59:00 - [42] Edited by: Writ Insand on 13/01/2009 20:01:59 A more sensible UI would be to have a slider bar. Over the slider is a text box that displays number of SP and total isk cost, which changes as you move the slider. The bar would default to 100% of your current SP (far right) but you could slide it to the left if you choose to purchase less SP protection. Would take up less space than the current UI, is less error prone, no silly clone names, and no need to update it manually every time one of elder gods passes another SP milestone.
Kordel Trask	Posted - 2009.01.21 00:54:00 - [43] Bottom line. This is suppose to be a game and not constant maintenance. Player's shouldn't be penalized for making a mistake and losing a month or more of skill points for a simple error. God forbid you were in the game for a year or more and it happened to you! (You would be crying a lot louder than anyone here right now) Hasn't happened to me, but I came close ONCE. Just like the listed scenario, In a fight, blood pumping, adrenaline coursing I got fragged and wanted to get back to the fray. Not so hard to overlook a simple setting like that. I didn't get fragged the second time but almost had a stroke when I realized what I had risked!! I had to drink a serious number of beers to calm down. At the minimum a pop up warning should be generated every time you leave a station in this condition and enter any low sec area. Best case: Remove the skill points for the jump clones. It's a game mechanic that really serve's no purpose at all.
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa Minmatar The Perfect Harvesting Experience	Posted - 2009.01.21 08:00:00 - [44] Wrong bottom line... Right bottom line... PAY ATTENTION ! Especially after you find yourself in a cloning-facility right after being podded. ----------------------------------------------- Originally by: Paper Rock's fine, nerf Scissors
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.01.21 13:59:00 - [45] Originally by: Kordel Trask . Player's shouldn't be penalized for making a mistake Yes, they should.
Zambious	Posted - 2009.01.21 14:16:00 - [46] Originally by: Floundere Edited by: Floundere on 01/12/2008 20:08:08 My personal error lost me the sp, fine I have excepted that. I wonder how many actually read the thread? It is an idea thread not a complaint thread, Although it is an idea, albeit a bad one; what other features would you like the game to play for you? You made your decision, and got burnt. Your current SP is at the top of the Clone window. How much do you think a clone is for a 40-50mil SP player? It really isnt the cpst of "1-3mil" that you suggest in your opening post.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2009.01.23 17:21:00 - [47] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Kordel Trask . Player's shouldn't be penalized for making a mistake Yes, they should.

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