Mind expanding on your post just a little? Maybe so far as to where it actually makes sense?

I could buy an old geo (old p.o.s sad excuse for a vehicle) that barely runs, put a brick on the gas pedal, point it at the closest Ferrari dealer and let it go.

is that fair to the dealer?

Because real life is like EVE in that acts of terrorism have no consequences

I could buy an old geo (old p.o.s sad excuse for a vehicle) that barely runs, put a brick on the gas pedal, point it at the closest Ferrari dealer and let it go.

is that fair to the dealer?

And the Police would declare you a bad man and ignore you the next time they saw you down town with a shotgun because you hadn't really done anything, yet.
Using RL fails for a reason.

OP; Yes it's unbalanced. it's CCPs way of saying buy PLEX, blow it up in mindless PvP because that makes EVE betterer.

If a Destroyer is killing your Hulk before CONCORD came and killed him, you are doing something wrong. Either your Hulk fit is crap or you aren't paying attention to your game and deserve to die. So...yes...Destroyer vs 325mil is in fact, balanced.

If you can't handle EVE you may consider WoW. There's a lot less pressure there.

If a Destroyer is killing your Hulk before CONCORD came and killed him, you are doing something wrong. Either your Hulk fit is crap or you aren't paying attention to your game and deserve to die. So...yes...Destroyer vs 325mil is in fact, balanced.

This is clearly fair.

Mining in a 0.5 system with an active tank full of faction mods will attract the wrong kind of people at some point.

But yeah, 18Mil for two gank blaster Catalysts capable of 500+ DPS each is pushing the envelope a bit. Mackinaws can be done with one dessie these days. Of course the smart ones don't mine in obvious places like belts...

If you fit your Hulk for EHP and not max yield you can you will still die from one Tornado.
That's not balanced at all.
If you fit your hulk with shield rigs, shield buffer mids and one Damage Controls in low you should be safe for ganking.

A full tank fitted hulk can have something like 33k ehp

Stop mining in high sec if this bothers you.

-Liang

Ed: Also, how often do you get ganked? Could you take preventative action by mining in anoms, missions, or a less populated area of high sec (Aridia? Genesis? Solitude?)

meh first time. funny thing is it was in one of those dead regions in a dead end system. with no fkin station.

Please, please, please give mi that fit...
subtract like 10k and you have your number.

fk it. canceled my sub.

Btw did you know that 1400mm arty has truly atrocious tracking? Try orbiting your can at 2500m or so. It makes a surprising difference.

My pleasure.
3 t2 strips
Meta 4 MSE, 2x T2 Invulns, t2 em resist amp
T2 DCU, T2 MAPC
2 X CFDEs

My EFT shows 36933 Ehp vs omni damage type with the orca having a mining mindlink, worst is vs thermal. You get 39651 if you give the orca pilot a shield mindlink but then you might a well use a vulture

A boosting tengu takes it to 42788....

Very true and a good point when dealing with Tornado's.

Personally I think I'd prefer to be aligned at 3/4 speed to one of two roughly opposite celestials (preferably stations) while monitoring D Scan.

The better mining equipment has a longer range for reasons other than making it easier to stay together for your hauler or Orca.

Well... all i can say thnx man.
But... thats a "little" $$$$$$$$$ fit and "little" skill intensive to fit...

Very true and a good point when dealing with Tornado's.

Personally I think I'd prefer to be aligned at 3/4 speed to one of two roughly opposite celestials (preferably stations) while monitoring D Scan.

The better mining equipment has a longer range for reasons other than making it easier to stay together for your hauler or Orca.

You cant do that with orca in fleet.

This is clearly fair.

Well... all i can say thnx man.
But... thats a "little" $$$$$$$$$ fit and "little" skill intensive to fit...

You cant do that with orca in fleet.

eject can, tractor with orca

not hard

Btw did you know that 1400mm arty has truly atrocious tracking? Try orbiting your can at 2500m or so. It makes a surprising difference.

Get a friend or two to escort you while you mine. One decent battlecruiser probably would have scared off the attackers or at least possibly give you a bit of time to make your escape.

There are no consequences if you don't get caught. Also, those dessies get concorded.

On a side note: I feel that the dessies should have a chance to escape. because F*** THE PO-LEECE

Thank you, your answer was probably more factual and less sarcastic than mine would have been.

Then 5 minutes later I'd feel bad about it, I always do....

My pleasure.
3 t2 strips
Meta 4 MSE, 2x T2 Invulns, t2 em resist amp
T2 DCU, T2 MAPC
2 X CFDEs

My EFT shows 36933 Ehp vs omni damage type with the orca having a mining mindlink, worst is vs thermal. You get 39651 if you give the orca pilot a shield mindlink but then you might a well use a vulture

A boosting tengu takes it to 42788....

IMPLANTS!

I like this logic.

Hey, guys, when I set my 300M isk mission runner in go mode and wandered off to get coffee it was killed by a 0 isk NPC that spawned without spending anything at all! Unfair! I demand this be balanced away.

Not nearly expensive enough an example. Lets fix that.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12117010

At least you weren't this guy. AFK mining in a honor tanked Machariel in the system right next door to Amamake. This is how it ends up folks

My pleasure.
3 t2 strips
Meta 4 MSE, 2x T2 Invulns, t2 em resist amp
T2 DCU, T2 MAPC
2 X CFDEs

If you can't hande PvP maybe you should go back to Age of Conan.

The point being you can make it harder and more expensive for them to do so, VV

ROFL you are saying killing a hulk is pvp? ha ha ha you must have come from AoC.

There is only one MSE In the fit I posted.

T2 MAPC is released in this last t2 modules pack?
because my EFT don have it (its older)

Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

So all in all you cant choose mid way between mining and tank.
Or full tank and maybe you survive or full mining and you are dead 100%.

Oh you can go with less tank but you will be softer. The tank provided can take the impact from a 1400mm tornado.

ROFL you are saying killing a hulk is pvp? ha ha ha you must have come from AoC.

i just had to spend my last 20 dollars to buy a plex for a new hulk. Now i will have to go hungry for a few days. Thx CCP for making a terrible game.

i just had to spend my last 20 dollars to buy a plex for a new hulk. Now i will have to go hungry for a few days. Thx CCP for making a terrible game.

The refire rate of a tornado means you will not get hit a second time in most of high sec and 20k tank is enough to best any destroyer.

I just tried that in EFT.
How the hell you fitted 2 medium shield extenders
i used all lvl5 skills profile and cant even fit 2 MSE I... only them and t2 strips and power grid is on 79/ 43,75...

[quote=Dbars Grinding]fk it. canceled my sub. [/quote

You'd rather quit than try a different fit?

As i know, didn't try fit because i did not upgrade EFT...
Tornado can get second shoot after cca 18 sec so they can manage it...
Especially if they call concord in some other belt (add warp time).

a different fit to make even less isk than i make right now?

Hmm I tried it and it works like a charm. I did not even put a script.
Also, I tried the opposite, that is being the guy orbiting the can. Takes a LIFETIME to invert direction and align to station / safe spot, so non afk mining becomes much less useful.





Bad suggestion.

1) Friends don't generally stick to a pathetic exhumer for 8 hours a day. They can give you an hand some times but it's too much to do it every day. Also, the already low income per account becomes factually split in half.

2) Mercs, some hire them. I see them every day. They want good money to sit there for the whole day of course and mining income <> incursion income. Plus - and this will become a LOT more evident with the new wardec system - mercs are basically useless for this.

The suicide ganker goes close to target in a cloakie, then warps in 2 catalysts / whatever required to alpha or quasi-alpha the target. Then spams warp to celestial. The merc can do just so much to avoid the target death. When the new wardecs system will be in place it'll be the same: you spend the money to pay the mercs yet you *still* cannot leave the station because you'll still be popped in anything fragile (like industrial ships). The wardeccer objective - having kills and disrupting the corporation - will perfectly work even with mercs around. Mercs will just eventually insure revenge but disruption is still unavoidable.
In the new system have i.e. Orca + 4 macks. You get wardec. Even with mercs around, the wardeccing corp WILL just come in with 2 disco battleships and WILL melt the macks => defending mercs will be useless => corp is disrupted with no defense even if they abide to the new rules and pay mercs.

3) One decent BC won't save anybody from an expendable ship scram put on the target.
If somebody REALLY wants to screw your operation they WILL. You can pay all the money you want, you can fit whatever you want, you can hire whoever you want, you WILL be disrupted.


Give it few days and people will learn to stay docked in stations again and to fly completely crap fittings for maxed yield.
Outside Hulkageddon, being max yield fitted will vastly, massively outpace the loss of revenue you have by pretending an exhumer can resist a real attack and fitting it like a T80 tank gear... Hyunday.

This is clearly fair.

This is clearly fair.

I agree that hiring mercs isn't likely to save you from a suicide gank.

Trying to mine while at war is another topic entirely.

First, if you are under a war dec worrisome enough to hire merc's you shouldn't be mining to begin with. You should be prepared to assist your merc's in ending the war dec.

Second, if your mercs assure you that their scouts can alert you before any war targets enter system, and IF they don't mind you playing target, that's fine. Get assurances. Then fit your Hulks to ensure you can get your butt out of the belt when the scout alerts you. Even then you need to be aware that the people at war with you are perfectly capable of suicide ganking you with neutral alts.

Again, merc use vs suicide gank and merc use vs war dec are two completely different things. Either way, you should be prepared to participate on your own behalf as best you can unless your mercs request otherwise.

This is clearly fair.

Well in a wardec the attackers would not even need to suicide gank. They'd just need to do their job (call it suicide) before the mercs bring them down, if they do.

See, I reason by objectives.

Wardec from competitor corp means they want to disrupt my income / production / cycle / whatever.
If I don't spend a nickel, they will succeed at that. Till now it's all linear.

Now enter the new wardec mechanic. It should kinda be a "version 2" of the current system, i.e. have less open holes and more effectiveness at what covers.

What happens is that with the new wardec mechanic, I would be unable to dec shield (which is OK) but even using the new mechanic and paying a merc corp for me, the attackers STILL disrupt the income, production, cycle and whatever.

I mean, what's the point of a new mechanic if it does not introduce a new dimension of gameplay?

I want to be able to pay well and be defended in my interests. I mean, the PvP will happen so both attackers and defending mercs are happy (which is all nice and dandy) but I just paid for others to have fun (less nice but still OK) while I don't reap a single benefit (the part that I am not OK with).

Imagine what would happen in RL if you pay mercs to defend your camps / your cargo ships (vs sea pirates), the mercs shoot and "win" yet you lose both your camps and your ships. How longer would anybody care to still hire mercs if they lose all anyway?

Translated into EvE terms, how longer till industry corps (the huge majority of war targets) realize it's pointless to get defenders and thus make the whole new mechanic sit unused, while the industry corpies still stay docked for the wardec duration like now?

you guys r too easy. :(

i just had to spend my last 20 dollars to buy a plex for a new hulk. Now i will have to go hungry for a few days. Thx CCP for making a terrible game.

a different fit to make even less isk than i make right now? Think i might keep this account open to post daily about how bad this game is.

The only thing considered unfair in EVE is when you can't be killed for some reason.

And the Police would declare you a bad man and ignore you the next time they saw you down town with a shotgun because you hadn't really done anything, yet.
Using RL fails for a reason.

This is clearly fair.

Because real life is like EVE in that acts of terrorism have no consequences

Why are Hulks so @#!#!@ing expensive.
ORE must manufacture Hulks by welding ISK together.

This is clearly fair.

a different fit to make even less isk than i make right now? Think i might keep this account open to post daily about how bad this game is.

Because real life is like EVE in that acts of terrorism have no consequences

I've heard about a line of ships called logistic ships. I've heard they were able to keep a ship alive despite a whole fleet shooting at it.
Is that kind of thing ganked miners are looking for ?

No don't. Please cancel your sub as you stated you had earlier in the thread. That would be win/win. You would get food and we would have better forums.

This is clearly fair.

Ed: Also, how often do you get ganked? Could you take preventative action by mining in anoms, missions, or a less populated area of high sec (Aridia? Genesis? Solitude?)

Like real life the only justice and order is what you create for yourself. Three thousand dollar rockets wielded by illiterate 13 year olds destroy million dollar tanks too. You have the same chance as everyone else in game to build a ten thousand man coalition and make a safe place for you to mine veldspar.

Because random people in real life are all friendly and trustworthy...
Because leaving your garage door open when you leave your house won't result in it getting robbed...
Because a group of teenagers would only talk trash to someone in a video game and never in real life...

Like real life the only justice and order is what you create for yourself. Three thousand dollar rockets wielded by illiterate 13 year olds destroy million dollar tanks too. You have the same chance as everyone else in game to build a ten thousand man coalition and make a safe place for you to mine veldspar.

I could buy an old geo (old p.o.s sad excuse for a vehicle) that barely runs, put a brick on the gas pedal, point it at the closest Ferrari dealer and let it go.

is that fair to the dealer?

This is clearly fair.

i just had to spend my last 20 dollars to buy a plex for a new hulk. Now i will have to go hungry for a few days. Thx CCP for making a terrible game.

So what your saying is Cruisers should be able to kill Titans.

I AGREE!

I could buy an old geo (old p.o.s sad excuse for a vehicle) that barely runs, put a brick on the gas pedal, point it at the closest Ferrari dealer and let it go.

is that fair to the dealer?

If you fit your Hulk for EHP and not max yield you will still die from one Tornado.
That's not balanced at all.
If you fit your hulk with shield rigs, shield buffer mids and one Damage Controls in low you should be safe from ganking.

i just had to spend my last 20 dollars to buy a plex for a new hulk. Now i will have to go hungry for a few days. Thx CCP for making a terrible game.

Industrial ships are not combat ships, GET OVER IT!

i just had to spend my last 20 dollars to buy a plex for a new hulk. Now i will have to go hungry for a few days. Thx CCP for making a terrible game.

You should fit it like this again. That fit is a pure winner.

i just had to spend my last 20 dollars to buy a plex for a new hulk. Now i will have to go hungry for a few days. Thx CCP for making a terrible game.

A hulk has 3 turret hardpoints and a destroyer has 8. With 8 mining lasers, the destroyer yields less then the hulk

clearly unbalanced

Because real life is like EVE in that acts of terrorism have no consequences

A hulk has 0, actually.

You know what I mean't ;) You know how unbalanced and unfair it is that a catalyst has more mining lasers then a hulk but doesn't mine as much as a hulk.

If hulks could fit turrets... that would be hilarious. Can anyone imagine a battle hulk? It would be totally awful, but very funny when you pop the -10 guy preparing a gank before he gets a shot off.

Hulks don't use mining lasers, yet another invalid point.

If hulks could fit turrets... that would be hilarious. Can anyone imagine a battle hulk? It would be totally awful, but very funny when you pop the -10 guy preparing a gank before he gets a shot off.

stop postin in this thread, holy **** it was a troll.

Don't be mad at your own success

stop postin in this thread