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Kev Hunter	Posted - 2008.12.02 08:40:00 - [1] Has anyone maxed a mining director and had a hulk mine with strip miners to find out the mining cycle time? Assuming mining director is piloting an orca and has: Industrial Command Ships V Mining Director V Mining Foreman V Mining Foreman Mindlink All 3 Mining Foreman Links enabled in top slots. Is booster for the squad. Hulk miner is in the same squad. I'm curious to see how much the Orca helps vs. a bc fully fitted with mining director gear.
Satrani Destiva Just Another Indy Corp Delinquent Habits	Posted - 2008.12.02 09:36:00 - [2] I have all other relevent skills at 5 on both miner and squad booster but only have industrial command to 4 but to give an idea: Miner using hulk, T2 lasers amd T2 crystal no booster: Mining amount 883.83 speciality crystal mining amount 1546.71 Activation time 180 sec Same miner setup with BC booster: Mining amount 1016.41 Speciality crystal mining amount 1778.71 Activation time 139.5 sec Same miner setup with orca booster Mining amount 1016.41 Speciality crystal mining amount 1778.71 Activation time 134.64 sec I'd like to see other peoples amounts and times to see if there is any way to improve (other than indy command 5) -
Dedaf Gallente United Brothers Of Eve Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.02 09:40:00 - [3] Hulk + Orca, with maxed out skills, will get you down to a cycle time of 133,43sec Hulk + EOS, cycle time of 139,5sec Hulk + Rorqual, Cycle time of 129,38 Dont forget that the gang skill"Warefare Link" also helps on the cycle time. ------- Ore & Ice Mining T1 & Capital & Rig Production POS Fueling and Reaction Minerals to Ore calculator
Satrani Destiva Just Another Indy Corp Delinquent Habits	Posted - 2008.12.02 09:42:00 - [4] My booster has warfare link 5 -
Jadin Lazarin Caldari Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.12.02 12:27:00 - [5] Satrani Destiva I am not sure I understand but how can a BC fitted with mining links be equal to the Orca fitted with mining links when the Orca has a ship bonus that increases the effectiveness of the links?
Kev Hunter	Posted - 2008.12.02 13:28:00 - [6] So... roughly 5 seconds shorter mining cycle time.. what a waste of 1 billion ISK. What a disappointment.
Dedaf Gallente United Brothers Of Eve Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.02 13:31:00 - [7] Originally by: Jadin Lazarin Satrani Destiva I am not sure I understand but how can a BC fitted with mining links be equal to the Orca fitted with mining links when the Orca has a ship bonus that increases the effectiveness of the links? The Orca and Rorqual dont give you bonus to mining yield. They only boost the effect that the Mining forman skill effects the gang module "laser Optimizaton" with. Therefore only cycle time is effected by the Orca and Rorqual and not mining yield. ------- Ore & Ice Mining T1 & Capital & Rig Production POS Fueling and Reaction Minerals to Ore calculator
Moonbat Indabrane Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.02 13:45:00 - [8] Edited by: Moonbat Indabrane on 02/12/2008 13:48:34 Originally by: Kev Hunter So... roughly 5 seconds shorter mining cycle time.. what a waste of 1 billion ISK. What a disappointment. lol wut? edit: using the 3 mining foreman boosters we get a cap bonus, a range bonus and RoF bonus... this is a waste exactly how? twitch!
Morgan Lorus Caldari Unstable Reaction Inc. North Domain Defense Forces	Posted - 2008.12.02 13:58:00 - [9] Originally by: Dedaf Therefore only cycle time is effected by the Orca and Rorqual and not mining yield. How does cycletime not effect my yield? I think its a difference, if I mine 2635m¦ per minute instead of 1801m¦.
Dedaf Gallente United Brothers Of Eve Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.02 14:14:00 - [10] Originally by: Morgan Lorus Originally by: Dedaf Therefore only cycle time is effected by the Orca and Rorqual and not mining yield. How does cycletime not effect my yield? I think its a difference, if I mine 2635m¦ per minute instead of 1801m¦. Yes ofcause. But thats still not the mining yield for the laser, its the yield pr minut, and ofcause if you have a faster cycle time, then ofcause you will yield more pr minut. ------- Ore & Ice Mining T1 & Capital & Rig Production POS Fueling and Reaction Minerals to Ore calculator
Satrani Destiva Just Another Indy Corp Delinquent Habits	Posted - 2008.12.02 14:36:00 - [11] Originally by: Jadin Lazarin Satrani Destiva I am not sure I understand but how can a BC fitted with mining links be equal to the Orca fitted with mining links when the Orca has a ship bonus that increases the effectiveness of the links? I ran the test using those ships to get the exact details I posted. I didn't just pull numbers out of thin air, but as has already been pointed out the laser optimisation link gives a bonus to cycle time not to the yield per cycle. This does however translate into a yield bonus/minute -
Kev Hunter	Posted - 2008.12.02 16:57:00 - [12] Originally by: Moonbat Indabrane Edited by: Moonbat Indabrane on 02/12/2008 13:48:34 Originally by: Kev Hunter So... roughly 5 seconds shorter mining cycle time.. what a waste of 1 billion ISK. What a disappointment. lol wut? edit: using the 3 mining foreman boosters we get a cap bonus, a range bonus and RoF bonus... this is a waste exactly how? In comparison to my alt's bc fully fitted gear and implants and skills... getting 139.5 sec cycle times.. and then spending a bill for the orca + roughly 45-50 mill for the industrial command ships skill.. and wasting the time to get it to lvl 5... only getting 5 seconds shorter of mining cycle times. Yes, that constitutes a waste of ISK and time.
Moonbat Indabrane Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.02 17:06:00 - [13] Originally by: Kev Hunter Originally by: Moonbat Indabrane using the 3 mining foreman boosters we get a cap bonus, a range bonus and RoF bonus... this is a waste exactly how? In comparison to my alt's bc fully fitted gear and implants and skills... getting 139.5 sec cycle times.. and then spending a bill for the orca + roughly 45-50 mill for the industrial command ships skill.. and wasting the time to get it to lvl 5... only getting 5 seconds shorter of mining cycle times. Yes, that constitutes a waste of ISK and time. you'd have a valid point if the orca was only boosting 1 hulk; and that hulk only mined for 1 cycle. twitch!
Morgan Lorus Caldari Unstable Reaction Inc. North Domain Defense Forces	Posted - 2008.12.02 17:42:00 - [14] Originally by: Kev Hunter In comparison to my alt's bc fully fitted gear and implants and skills... getting 139.5 sec cycle times.. and then spending a bill for the orca + roughly 45-50 mill for the industrial command ships skill.. and wasting the time to get it to lvl 5... only getting 5 seconds shorter of mining cycle times. Yes, that constitutes a waste of ISK and time. Isnt it more like, you waste resources when you have a BC with Link just sitting there doing nothing? Instead you could use these resources for hauling, boosting with a little bonus at the same time and never got to deal with canflippers anymore.
Kev Hunter	Posted - 2008.12.03 04:16:00 - [15] Originally by: Morgan Lorus Isnt it more like, you waste resources when you have a BC with Link just sitting there doing nothing? Instead you could use these resources for hauling, boosting with a little bonus at the same time and never got to deal with canflippers anymore. I have 3 accounts. One is a miner, one is a mining director, and one is a hauler. The mining director just idles there and gives mining bonuses. She's equipped with 2 command processors, so all 3 mining foreman links are equipped, active and running. The hauler hauls.. The miner mines.. If the orca docks, the mining bonuses go away until the orca undocks and re-enables all the mining foreman links. The investment is still a waste of ISK if it's all for 5 seconds less cycle times. The yield bonus is given in the same percentage proportion as the cycle times... all that time taken discussing the development of this ship was completely wasted and high sec mining is still not going to be efficient.
Bia Bri	Posted - 2008.12.03 04:45:00 - [16] Originally by: Kev Hunter Originally by: Morgan Lorus Isnt it more like, you waste resources when you have a BC with Link just sitting there doing nothing? Instead you could use these resources for hauling, boosting with a little bonus at the same time and never got to deal with canflippers anymore. I have 3 accounts. One is a miner, one is a mining director, and one is a hauler. The mining director just idles there and gives mining bonuses. She's equipped with 2 command processors, so all 3 mining foreman links are equipped, active and running. The hauler hauls.. The miner mines.. If the orca docks, the mining bonuses go away until the orca undocks and re-enables all the mining foreman links. The investment is still a waste of ISK if it's all for 5 seconds less cycle times. The yield bonus is given in the same percentage proportion as the cycle times... all that time taken discussing the development of this ship was completely wasted and high sec mining is still not going to be efficient. You seem to be overlooking the EXTREMELY relevant fact that if you have 3 characters (which are now miner, hauler, and command ship) you could, with an orca, combine the roles of hauler and command ship and thus have TWO hulks and an orca. Ignoring the other benefits of the orca, this alone doubles the ore coming in over your current setup. Being inside a station for 1 minute out of every 15 or so is not that big of a deal. On a side note, I know your characters might not have skills distributed to do so...but why are you using a miner a command and a hauler currently instead of 2 miners and a hauler? 1 transport ship can easily keep up with 2 hulks with a station in system and that has a significantly higher yield over your current setup. Bottom line, by FAR the most efficient use for exactly three characters in a high sec mining squad is 2 hulks and 1 orca (with the orca hauling). other setups aren't even close (using exactly three characters mind you).
Kev Hunter	Posted - 2008.12.03 07:41:00 - [17] Edited by: Kev Hunter on 03/12/2008 07:40:59 Originally by: Bia Bri On a side note, I know your characters might not have skills distributed to do so...but why are you using a miner a command and a hauler currently instead of 2 miners and a hauler? 1 transport ship can easily keep up with 2 hulks with a station in system and that has a significantly higher yield over your current setup. Bottom line, by FAR the most efficient use for exactly three characters in a high sec mining squad is 2 hulks and 1 orca (with the orca hauling). other setups aren't even close (using exactly three characters mind you). Are you aware that with the current setup of my 3 accounts, my mining lasers have a firing range of 22.5km instead of the typical 15km? The miner sits within 22km of the ore.. the long range stuff that's mined.. the mining director docks = bye bye mined ore = wasted mining cycle. Again, the orca replacing the mining director's bc for such a small increase = waste of isk/time. MOAR Bonusez 4 teh Orka plz!
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.12.03 08:39:00 - [18] Originally by: Kev Hunter Edited by: Kev Hunter on 03/12/2008 07:40:59 Originally by: Bia Bri On a side note, I know your characters might not have skills distributed to do so...but why are you using a miner a command and a hauler currently instead of 2 miners and a hauler? 1 transport ship can easily keep up with 2 hulks with a station in system and that has a significantly higher yield over your current setup. Bottom line, by FAR the most efficient use for exactly three characters in a high sec mining squad is 2 hulks and 1 orca (with the orca hauling). other setups aren't even close (using exactly three characters mind you). Are you aware that with the current setup of my 3 accounts, my mining lasers have a firing range of 22.5km instead of the typical 15km? The miner sits within 22km of the ore.. the long range stuff that's mined.. the mining director docks = bye bye mined ore = wasted mining cycle. Again, the orca replacing the mining director's bc for such a small increase = waste of isk/time. MOAR Bonusez 4 teh Orka plz! Here's an idea, ditch the range and cap usage links given that they are pretty much useless. Also your setup is much worse. 2 hulks + hauler will mine more than 1 hulk + bonus BC + hauler. 2 hulks + Orca will mine even more, even if you did lose the whole cycle when it docked. Of course given it won't need to dock as often as the hauler, you could quite feasibly still use the range link and just mine closer roids when it needs to go dock. If you had 2 hulks + orca, you would mine almost twice as much as you mine now, with the same number of chars. If almost twice is 'small' well, please continue. _____________________________ ░▒▓ ORCAs Available Early and Cheap ▓▒░
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.12.03 08:44:00 - [19] Edited by: Lord Fitz on 03/12/2008 08:43:57 Originally by: Kev Hunter The investment is still a waste of ISK if it's all for 5 seconds less cycle times. The yield bonus is given in the same percentage proportion as the cycle times... all that time taken discussing the development of this ship was completely wasted and high sec mining is still not going to be efficient. Replacing 2 ships with 1 means an extra hulks worth of yield will more than make up for it, and pay for the ship very quickly. The only reason you need to have one AND a hauler (or another Orca) is for very large ops where the extra yield will make a difference across many ships. _____________________________ ░▒▓ ORCAs Available Early and Cheap ▓▒░
Satrani Destiva Just Another Indy Corp Delinquent Habits	Posted - 2008.12.03 09:37:00 - [20] Originally by: Kev Hunter Are you aware that with the current setup of my 3 accounts, my mining lasers have a firing range of 22.5km instead of the typical 15km? Are you aware that with indy command ships trained to level 4 (my booster's current level) I can hit roids at 23 km? At level 4 probably at more like 24-25km. HOWEVER, if you re so inflexible that you are only ever going to use one hulk then your current setup is just fine and would never warrent paying out for an orca (or at least it would take a heeeeeeeellll of a long time to gain the money through the extra bonuses the orca gives). You'll notice though that everyone who has argued against you uses more than one miner in which case the bonuses given will be more than usefull. -
Kev Hunter	Posted - 2008.12.03 10:48:00 - [21] Edited by: Kev Hunter on 03/12/2008 10:55:00 Originally by: Satrani Destiva Are you aware that with indy command ships trained to level 4 (my booster's current level) I can hit roids at 23 km? At level 4 probably at more like 24-25km. Again, small potatoes. 1-2km is a pittance of an upgrade for the amount of ISK spent. Originally by: Satrani Destiva HOWEVER, if you re so inflexible that you are only ever going to use one hulk then your current setup is just fine and would never warrent paying out for an orca (or at least it would take a heeeeeeeellll of a long time to gain the money through the extra bonuses the orca gives). You'll notice though that everyone who has argued against you uses more than one miner in which case the bonuses given will be more than usefull. I'm not going to waste 3-6 months time plus x amount more ISK to make him pilot a hulk. Besides, I'm sure you're using auto-scripts to efficiently manage 2 hulks and an orca which is by CCP's TOS illegal. And if that's the case, can we have a moderator come into this thread please? There needs to be some bot/script users that need their accounts banned/cancelled! "OMG there's moar pplz arguing against you and no one supporting your argument! You're wrong! LOLZ" That's hitting a bit below the belt. You hurt my e-feelingz lulz! What's right isn't always popular.. and what's popular isn't always right. By the way, let's do some math. Industrial command ships 5 = 15% bonus to all mining foreman link stats. My mining director has 139.5 sec mining cycles fully decked out. If the Orca is designed to give a 15% bonus on top of that, then it should be another 15% shorter. 15% of 139.5 sec = 20.925 Therefore 139.5 - 20.925 = 118.575 sec. A fully decked out Orca with all skills maxed + mining foreman links and the mining foreman mindlink should be putting strip miners at 118.575 sec, not 134 sec. My mining director's range is 22.5km. 15% of 22.5km is 3.375km. Therefore 22.5km + 3.375km = 25.875km... almost 26km. I won't discuss the cap usage because I've not the time or patience to discuss that... especially with the various T2 crystal types. Either way, we've been ripped off with the Orca guys. CCP needs to fix this immediately! And if this outperforms the Rorqual, then the Rorqual stats/calculations need to be fixed as well!
Aion Amarra Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.12.03 11:28:00 - [22] Originally by: Kev Hunter By the way, let's do some math. Industrial command ships 5 = 15% bonus to all mining foreman link stats. Exactly. They multiply the percentage bonus of the mining foreman LINK by 1.15. Which leads to the exact results we're getting. It's not applied as direct modifier to the ship stats. And as you can see in the second response in this thread, the Rorqual does slightly better.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.12.03 11:32:00 - [23] Edited by: Akita T on 03/12/2008 11:35:07 Quote: By the way, let's do some math Assuming "all relevant L5" character with mining mindlink and BC/CS with proper links as baseline... BC or CS: baseline w/ Orca : +4.5492% overall yield Rorqual : +7.8219% overall yield Now, consider that a 5% mining yield implant costs around 60-70 mil ISK, while a 3% mining yield implant under 10 mil, giving you a mere +1.94% actual yield increase... well... multiply that by the number of miners that COULD get MORE THAN DOUBLE that increase by having an Orca around... well, you get the idea. IF you don't care for that, FINE. Originally by: Kev Hunter I'm not going to waste 3-6 months time plus x amount more ISK to make him pilot a hulk. THEN FRIGGING DON'T. The Orca was NOT intended for pretentious solo nitpickers and their paltry three accounts, but for corp-level mining ops. Quote: Besides, I'm sure you're using auto-scripts to efficiently manage 2 hulks and an orca which is by CCP's TOS illegal. You need a SCRIPT to drag and drop stuff once every 2+ minutes or so per account ? What are you, disabled or something ? _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.12.03 11:42:00 - [24] Edited by: Akita T on 03/12/2008 11:41:59 gah doublepost _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Lauri Andromedae	Posted - 2008.12.03 11:45:00 - [25] I did EFT warrioring with EFT and Hulk with T2 strips, T2 mining drones, V skills, implants, all bonuses etc can get little over 2900 yield with Orca. 2x Hulks 1x Orca with 3.50 tritanium price gets around 36 M ISK per hour. No delays or target switching calculated in. That's pure maximum, sorry if I miscalculated something. That means that with 4x Hulks, 1x Orca and 1x IttyV you can get 72 M ISK per hour if the tritanium price is 3.50.. It's now around 4.00 in Jita... So basically, dude with 6 accounts, and characters little over average skills can certainly pull atleast 50-55 M ISK per hour by mining tritanium Myself, I would start doing that but I lack PC's to do so. I have planned to buy 3x laptops and put 2x clients on each running the client with 1024*768 resolution and all connected with KVM switch. But my wife doesn't agree that masterplan - so it will have to wait. And I also lack skilled characters to do so For the fun.. If you would have those maxed out characters and you would use 6 characters you would pull out 8640 M ISK per month by mining 4 hours a day. If you could sell with 4.00 price, you would get around 9875 M ISK per month. It would cost 1800 M ISK to keep your characters paid with ISK. OMG Now everyone take this as FOTM and start buying characters and start mining Wait..
Voltaeis Gemini	Posted - 2008.12.03 11:45:00 - [26] Yes I agree with the assessment the ORCA in its current incarnation is a poor investment unless you are collectively mining in a group of 3 or 4 hulks. Less than this and the orca pilot is probably better served by just piloting a hulk with his buddies for a higher group yield. In any case unless the number of hulk miners is large it will take an aweful long time for the net benefit of the ORCA bonuses to yeild to break even against the price of the vessel. Although it is not the intent the orca may be just what the doctor ordered for isk farmers that perma mine as they are likely the only parties to derive enough benefit to maike the purchase worthwhile. In general i think there is more to be done to buff mining in high sec... a more abundant supply of veld / scord / pyroxers is not a bad point to start from.. either more belts or lower respawn times.. Anyhow those discussions are not for this thread.. Back on topic I just dont think this ship represents value.. for my purposes i would rather a vessel with mining turrets and command bonuses in line with those of a bc... or if the current bonuses simply must stand i would prefer a mining drone yield bonus of say 200% per level, this would make the ship unique and at level 5 each drone would yield approximately the same as 10 drones used by any other vessel. Well light ur flamethrowers and hose me down u d1cks..
Warrio Southern Cross Incorporated Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.03 12:25:00 - [27] Good to see that most of the posts in this thread are arguing two completely different points. Yes, the Orca is a waste if you plan on only using a small number of characters. No, the Orca is not a waste if you are running a large mining op. It's fine, L2P as they say. sXe
Girabaldi D'Protagonist Minmatar In Theory.	Posted - 2008.12.03 13:03:00 - [28] Here is where you see some benefit to the orca. What we have done is replaced our BC with the orca for Ice mining. When I run the orca with 3 Mackinaws in support I can fill the orca (129 Blocks current setup) in 45 minutes. With 3 Mack pilots of equal skills I can start a new cycle, warp the orca to station and back and start the link, and retrieve the ice from the macks before the new cycle starts.. How do you do that you say that thing is a pig.. its easy.. have one of your macks equiped with a webber. The orca actually spins pretty quick and with the web it warps right away.. so the only slow warp off is from the station.. This thing also makes you a social god.. because you can invite other miners into the fllet and give them bonuses.. and most enjoy that. Improvise adapt and overcome.. oh and did i mention.. it is damn secksy sitting out there with its mackinaw drones hovering around it.. Imagine mining command ship with mackinaw ice mining drones.. woohooo
Fitzwilliam Bookworm	Posted - 2008.12.03 13:31:00 - [29] Originally by: Kev Hunter Besides, I'm sure you're using auto-scripts to efficiently manage 2 hulks and an orca which is by CCP's TOS illegal. And if that's the case, can we have a moderator come into this thread please? There needs to be some bot/script users that need their accounts banned/cancelled! Total rubbish - its very easy to do
Satrani Destiva Just Another Indy Corp Delinquent Habits	Posted - 2008.12.03 13:48:00 - [30] Edited by: Satrani Destiva on 03/12/2008 13:53:38 So let me get this straight. You asked for advice on whether the orca gave any benefits Vs a BC. You were told that it does but then decided that they weren't enough to warrant you paying the isk to buy one which is a fair comment, but then you try to totaly trash talk the ship even though you have been told by some of the bigger industrial names in this forum that the ship is VERY worthwhile for larger ops, and still you disagree. Well done you are a successful troll. -
Wardo21	Posted - 2008.12.03 15:19:00 - [31] Here's another implementation tip for the orca used to move the ore/ice to station. Align to the station while you're waiting for the hold to fill. That webber idea is also a good one, I will have to put one on the ships I intend to use.
Nickodeavich Caldari Isabella Manufacturing	Posted - 2008.12.03 17:35:00 - [32] Some info I've read seems to indicate that the best ice cycle time you can get (perfect ice mining for both chars with any implants available) with an orca director and a mack is 245 seconds. Does anyone have more info on this? appreciated.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.12.03 17:37:00 - [33] I get 247 with a director in an EOS without the mining implant, so that does not sound right. _______________ Pwett Founder <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Girabaldi D'Protagonist Minmatar In Theory.	Posted - 2008.12.03 18:12:00 - [34] Edited by: Girabaldi D''Protagonist on 03/12/2008 18:13:44 My other character who is an exhumers 5 pilot with 2 Ice Harvester Upgrade II's and Ice Harvester II's on board is currently at 217 sec. With the Yeti 2 implant I expect it to be in the 205-207 range. Mind you Girabaldi has MF 5 MD 5 WFLS 5 and the Mining Mindlink installed ICS 4 Total reduction to cycle time at present is 25.2%
Krylon Rhae	Posted - 2008.12.03 18:40:00 - [35] Originally by: Kev Hunter Besides, I'm sure you're using auto-scripts to efficiently manage 2 hulks and an orca which is by CCP's TOS illegal. And if that's the case, can we have a moderator come into this thread please? There needs to be some bot/script users that need their accounts banned/cancelled! As a rookie many many moons ago I remember someone mining with 3 hulks in system with me while I was using a retriver. I thought he must have been a multi-armed robot to manage all of that activity. Now, a couple of years later and I am running 4 accounts (2 hulksters, Iteron V and a new Orca, formerly running in a Vulture). Once you have the rhytem going it's actually quite easy to manage all of these characters. In fact, giving serious consideration now to adding another Hulkster to my team. Let's see, where did I put that credit card for the new PC?
DarkonRhoe Professional Interstellar Support Initiative	Posted - 2008.12.03 20:10:00 - [36] Originally by: Satrani Destiva I have all other relevent skills at 5 on both miner and squad booster but only have industrial command to 4 but to give an idea: Miner using hulk, T2 lasers amd T2 crystal no booster: Mining amount 883.83 speciality crystal mining amount 1546.71 Activation time 180 sec Same miner setup with BC booster: Mining amount 1016.41 Speciality crystal mining amount 1778.71 Activation time 139.5 sec Same miner setup with orca booster Mining amount 1016.41 Speciality crystal mining amount 1778.71 Activation time 134.64 sec I'd like to see other peoples amounts and times to see if there is any way to improve (other than indy command 5) now what about factoring in the hardwire mining foreman mindlink Calmarri FTW
Satrani Destiva Just Another Indy Corp Delinquent Habits	Posted - 2008.12.03 20:12:00 - [37] Originally by: Nickodeavich Some info I've read seems to indicate that the best ice cycle time you can get (perfect ice mining for both chars with any implants available) with an orca director and a mack is 245 seconds. Does anyone have more info on this? appreciated. Again I quote that my indy command is only at level 4 but my ice cycle time with a BX-2 imp is 227 sec. My other 2 chars only have the BX-1 imp and their cycle time is 232 sec. For those extra 5 secs you might ask if it's worth training cybernetics to 5 for the imps, but then every 5 seconds counts as they all add up to quite a hefty bonus. Originally by: Girabaldi D'Protagonist Edited by: Girabaldi D''Protagonist on 03/12/2008 18:13:44 My other character who is an exhumers 5 pilot with 2 Ice Harvester Upgrade II's and Ice Harvester II's on board is currently at 217 sec. With the Yeti 2 implant I expect it to be in the 205-207 range. Mind you Girabaldi has MF 5 MD 5 WFLS 5 and the Mining Mindlink installed ICS 4 Total reduction to cycle time at present is 25.2% As for getting the cycle time down to 205-207 you must be using a hulk in which case I can't comment as I use the mack, which has a small cycle handicap for ice, but it does do 4 pieces to the hulks 3. I'm hoping for 224 sec in the mack at indy command lvl5. By the way while we are all taking about cycle times, does anyone know of a way to fit 2 IHUs to a mack while being able to shield boost? I can only fit the one at the moment. I'm thinking imps for CPU but not sure what they are called. -
Satrani Destiva Just Another Indy Corp Delinquent Habits	Posted - 2008.12.03 20:13:00 - [38] Originally by: DarkonRhoe Originally by: Satrani Destiva I have all other relevent skills at 5 on both miner and squad booster but only have industrial command to 4 but to give an idea: Miner using hulk, T2 lasers amd T2 crystal no booster: Mining amount 883.83 speciality crystal mining amount 1546.71 Activation time 180 sec Same miner setup with BC booster: Mining amount 1016.41 Speciality crystal mining amount 1778.71 Activation time 139.5 sec Same miner setup with orca booster Mining amount 1016.41 Speciality crystal mining amount 1778.71 Activation time 134.64 sec I'd like to see other peoples amounts and times to see if there is any way to improve (other than indy command 5) now what about factoring in the hardwire mining foreman mindlink Sorry that is including the mindlink -
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.12.03 20:19:00 - [39] you can use imps - I think it's under the Gypsy series or you can see if the old trick of offlining one of the IHUs, undock, online it. _______________ Pwett Founder <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Tramp Oline	Posted - 2008.12.03 20:20:00 - [40] I currently run two hulks and an orca and to me the orca was worth every isk. The extra ore that I bring in from having a 2nd hulk mining instead of having one hulk, a command ship, and a hauler has paid for the ship already. The ability to hold 136,913 m3 (5 jet cans) of ore without having to dock and without having to worry about ore thieves and can flippers is PRICELESS!
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.12.03 21:56:00 - [41] Originally by: Pwett I get 247 with a director in an EOS without the mining implant, so that does not sound right. Why do people spell 'Eos' with all caps? It's not an acronym and thus should be capitalized just like any other word out there. It's E-os, not E.O.S. Sorry to get off-topic, but the prevalence of this bugs the hell out of me.
Rada Ionesco Caldari Prometheus Industrial	Posted - 2008.12.03 22:41:00 - [42] Not really meaning to comment on the question from OP, but a related question if that's OK with people. I heard you could stack Laser Optimization links and get reduced cycle times. I tried this with my corp members and they said they didn't see any decrease when I turned the second link on. Any body know if two of the same link cancels the second bonus?
Satrani Destiva Just Another Indy Corp Delinquent Habits	Posted - 2008.12.03 23:35:00 - [43] The links don't stack. The first one is the only one that works. -
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.12.04 01:08:00 - [44] Originally by: Kev Hunter Originally by: Moonbat Indabrane Edited by: Moonbat Indabrane on 02/12/2008 13:48:34 Originally by: Kev Hunter So... roughly 5 seconds shorter mining cycle time.. what a waste of 1 billion ISK. What a disappointment. lol wut? edit: using the 3 mining foreman boosters we get a cap bonus, a range bonus and RoF bonus... this is a waste exactly how? In comparison to my alt's bc fully fitted gear and implants and skills... getting 139.5 sec cycle times.. and then spending a bill for the orca + roughly 45-50 mill for the industrial command ships skill.. and wasting the time to get it to lvl 5... only getting 5 seconds shorter of mining cycle times. Yes, that constitutes a waste of ISK and time. The orca will become cheaper than that. It'll be down to 450-500 mil in a few months too. I figure 420 mil difference over a bc. Another thing to consider is that a 5 second reduction is roughly a 3.5% reduction in cycle time. If a ganged hulk scoops say 8 mil isk an hour when you're there with the bc. Then you get an extra 280k isk per hour per hulk with the orca. That's 1500 hours of mining with the orca. If your hulks are scooping 20 mil/hr (which I've heard some do in 0.0), then that'd drop the necessary number of hours to 600. Either way, a large gang can eventually pay for the orca from that mining bonus alone. But then we have the other advantage of the orca. Namely that it vastly simplifies can management for haulers (with tractor beams and corporate hangar) and that it can be used as a hauler itself (using a second orca). That reduces the number of people needed to haul and means your gang puts more beams on roids.
Lyvanna Kitaen Minmatar Noonday Sun Corp	Posted - 2008.12.04 03:10:00 - [45] I've been using a hybrid approach. I have one character mining in a Hulk, another in an Orca, and a third mines until the Orca is near full and then swaps her mining ship for a hauler from the Orca's bay and hauls until the Orca is empty. She then switches back to mining and the cycle repeats. This allows the Orca to stay on station and boosting and gives an increased overall yield vs the Hulk/Command Ship/Hauler setup. Plus -- no jet cans.
Krylon Rhae	Posted - 2008.12.04 03:54:00 - [46] Edited by: Krylon Rhae on 04/12/2008 03:54:58 Originally by: Lyvanna Kitaen I've been using a hybrid approach. I have one character mining in a Hulk, another in an Orca, and a third mines until the Orca is near full and then swaps her mining ship for a hauler from the Orca's bay and hauls until the Orca is empty. She then switches back to mining and the cycle repeats. This allows the Orca to stay on station and boosting and gives an increased overall yield vs the Hulk/Command Ship/Hauler setup. Plus -- no jet cans. Yeppers... works great. I do the miner/hauler switch while in belts only. When I am mining out a mission the roids are sometimes many klicks away from the warp-in point so I just use the hauler to make the trek back to station. Generally a round trip through the gates to the warp-in point almost has the Orca sitting with a full load tractored in from the hulksters ready for the hauler.
Ralph Larsen	Posted - 2008.12.04 15:07:00 - [47] Originally by: Kev Hunter Originally by: Morgan Lorus Isnt it more like, you waste resources when you have a BC with Link just sitting there doing nothing? Instead you could use these resources for hauling, boosting with a little bonus at the same time and never got to deal with canflippers anymore. I have 3 accounts. One is a miner, one is a mining director, and one is a hauler. The mining director just idles there and gives mining bonuses. She's equipped with 2 command processors, so all 3 mining foreman links are equipped, active and running. The hauler hauls.. The miner mines.. If the orca docks, the mining bonuses go away until the orca undocks and re-enables all the mining foreman links. The investment is still a waste of ISK if it's all for 5 seconds less cycle times. The yield bonus is given in the same percentage proportion as the cycle times... all that time taken discussing the development of this ship was completely wasted and high sec mining is still not going to be efficient. I've been using a hybrid approach. I have one character mining in a Hulk, another in an Orca, and a third mines until the Orca is near full and then swaps her mining ship for a hauler from the Orca's bay and hauls until the Orca is empty. She then switches back to mining and the cycle repeats. This allows the Orca to stay on station and boosting and gives an increased overall yield vs the Hulk/Command Ship/Hauler setup. Plus -- no jet cans.
Pluribus Onion	Posted - 2008.12.04 15:13:00 - [48] Originally by: Kev Hunter Besides, I'm sure you're using auto-scripts to efficiently manage 2 hulks and an orca which is by CCP's TOS illegal. Utter nonsense. I can operate a mining fleet of 4 Hulks, 2 haulers and either a booster BC or Orca, entirely manually and very efficiently. That's seven ships without any macro stuff. What's more, I can also fly a combat patrol, kill rats and loot and salvage the wrecks without any noticeable decrease in mining or hauling. So that's 8 ships run by one person with no macros. In another context I can fly 7, 8, 9 ships all in different directions on different shopping trips, all at the same time. If you know anything about POSs you know that the non-ice supplies are always in different stations, never together in the same station. So one can either spend hours flying around to buy the supplies, one station at a time, or one can fly multiple ships to buy all the supplies concurrently.
Grell Holoborg	Posted - 2008.12.04 15:21:00 - [49] Originally by: Girabaldi D'Protagonist ...have one of your macks equiped with a webber. The orca actually spins pretty quick and with the web it warps right away.. so the only slow warp off is from the station.. You will notice that since QR, kicking a ship into warp by use of a webber is not working as well as it used to work. It used to be very consistent and used to act very fast except after undocking, when there was either a significant delay or the large ship had to completely stop or both. Now the webber trick is highly inconsistent, sometimes having no effect whatsoever, with the large ship taking the full time it would take to turn and get into warp with no webbing, and other times working OK but always taking somewhat longer to get into warp than it used to. This is very noticeable if you fly many jumps with a large ship and a webber escort. I'm afraid this may be yet another one of those things CCP broke in a patch and didn't notice, and perhaps no longer knows how to fix.
Lyvanna Kitaen Minmatar Noonday Sun Corp	Posted - 2008.12.04 22:11:00 - [50] Originally by: Grell Holoborg You will notice that since QR, kicking a ship into warp by use of a webber is not working as well as it used to work. It used to be very consistent and used to act very fast except after undocking, when there was either a significant delay or the large ship had to completely stop or both. Now the webber trick is highly inconsistent, sometimes having no effect whatsoever, with the large ship taking the full time it would take to turn and get into warp with no webbing, and other times working OK but always taking somewhat longer to get into warp than it used to. This is very noticeable if you fly many jumps with a large ship and a webber escort. I'm afraid this may be yet another one of those things CCP broke in a patch and didn't notice, and perhaps no longer knows how to fix. It seems like I read somewhere that the devs didn't like the web and jump trick and intended to nerf it.
Noggin TheNog Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2008.12.05 14:50:00 - [51] And you've all missed the real point of the Orca, which is to serve as a mobile base of operations for -10 sec status pirates in empire space...
Girabaldi D'Protagonist Minmatar In Theory.	Posted - 2008.12.05 15:12:00 - [52] Edited by: Girabaldi D''Protagonist on 05/12/2008 15:15:41 Originally by: Satrani Destiva Originally by: Nickodeavich Some info I've read seems to indicate that the best ice cycle time you can get (perfect ice mining for both chars with any implants available) with an orca director and a mack is 245 seconds. Does anyone have more info on this? appreciated. Again I quote that my indy command is only at level 4 but my ice cycle time with a BX-2 imp is 227 sec. My other 2 chars only have the BX-1 imp and their cycle time is 232 sec. For those extra 5 secs you might ask if it's worth training cybernetics to 5 for the imps, but then every 5 seconds counts as they all add up to quite a hefty bonus. Originally by: Girabaldi D'Protagonist Edited by: Girabaldi D''Protagonist on 03/12/2008 18:13:44 My other character who is an exhumers 5 pilot with 2 Ice Harvester Upgrade II's and Ice Harvester II's on board is currently at 217 sec. With the Yeti 2 implant I expect it to be in the 205-207 range. Mind you Girabaldi has MF 5 MD 5 WFLS 5 and the Mining Mindlink installed ICS 4 Total reduction to cycle time at present is 25.2% As for getting the cycle time down to 205-207 you must be using a hulk in which case I can't comment as I use the mack, which has a small cycle handicap for ice, but it does do 4 pieces to the hulks 3. I'm hoping for 224 sec in the mack at indy command lvl5. By the way while we are all taking about cycle times, does anyone know of a way to fit 2 IHUs to a mack while being able to shield boost? I can only fit the one at the moment. I'm thinking imps for CPU but not sure what they are called. Nope I do this in a mack.. the only thing missing from my mack pilot is the yeti implant.. and I will have that within 22 days or so after i finish some other training.. I think 206 sec is as low as you can go.. and since they made the changes to the mack it allows you to use 2 IHU II's that's why you can do it without spending the isk for the uber mods.. The webber trick works just fine.. We used it for the 22 jump run from Jita to home and we use it in the belt.. And for the gentleman with the hauler in the bay.. that is a pretty good Idea... will look into that maybe utilize one of our nubbling miners for that purpose until he is fully mack trained
Harry Caray Caldari Windy City Mineral Group New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.12.05 16:48:00 - [53] Originally by: Nickodeavich Some info I've read seems to indicate that the best ice cycle time you can get (perfect ice mining for both chars with any implants available) with an orca director and a mack is 245 seconds. Does anyone have more info on this? appreciated. i was in an orca boosted gang last week. i have exhumers V, T2 ice harvesters, 2 X T2 ice harvester upgrades, the Yeti 5% implant, and using a mackinaw. my cycle time without gang was around 276sec. with the fleet it was down to 204sec. i do not know what the orca pilots skills were, it was just a friendly corp in the belts offering a free boost
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.12.06 09:10:00 - [54] Originally by: Lyvanna Kitaen It seems like I read somewhere that the devs didn't like the web and jump trick and intended to nerf it. They don't like it and they do. Promotes team work, wasn't intended to work that way. However there's not much they can do about it without making each ship have a minimum time to warp or something. Because currently the way you get into warp is to be > 75% speed and be aligned in the correct direction. When you are stopped (after jumping through a gate for instance) you have 0 velocity and so are aligned in all directions. Ships don't actually 'turn' in eve, they simply alter their velocity, webbing affecting speed means that you get to 75% speed very quickly, given that your top speed is greatly reduced. _____________________________ ░▒▓ ORCAs Available Early and Cheap ▓▒░
Clansworth Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.12.06 10:51:00 - [55] Edited by: Clansworth on 06/12/2008 10:53:55 Not sure if a definitive answer was given yet, but Max Ice Harvesting Yield is as follows: Best Possible Cycle Times: Leader Mackinaw Hulk None 276.6 250.8 BC/CS 214.3 194.3 Orca 205.0 185.9 Rorqual 198.8 180.2 Yield in Blocks/Hour with max fit/skills: Leader Mackinaw Hulk None 52.07 43.07 BC/CS 67.18 55.57 Orca 70.24 58.10 Rorqual 72.44 59.92 This is based on the harvester having Ice Harvesting V, Exhumers V, 'Yeti' BX-2 Implant, and 2 Ice Harvester Upgrade II's. The Director has Mining Director V, Warfare Link Specialist V, Mining Foreman Mindlink, and Industrial Command Ships V or Capital Industrial Ships V (where applicable). System Influence
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.12.06 21:20:00 - [56] Originally by: Lyvanna Kitaen I've been using a hybrid approach. I have one character mining in a Hulk, another in an Orca, and a third mines until the Orca is near full and then swaps her mining ship for a hauler from the Orca's bay and hauls until the Orca is empty. She then switches back to mining and the cycle repeats. This allows the Orca to stay on station and boosting and gives an increased overall yield vs the Hulk/Command Ship/Hauler setup. Plus -- no jet cans. This is exactly what I was considering and you're the only person that I've seen mention it. People seem to forget that the Orca can hold assembled ships. I haven't figured the effiency of doing this versus other methods, but it seems pretty logical to me. I'd imagine the Orca would take a while to fill before someone would have to switch out to haul, and the miners could even take turns hauling. For large ops, a dedicated hauler would be a must, but for just a few barges and an Orca I'd think this'd be a good method.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.12.06 21:23:00 - [57] Originally by: Ralph Larsen I've been using a hybrid approach. I have one character mining in a Hulk, another in an Orca, and a third mines until the Orca is near full and then swaps her mining ship for a hauler from the Orca's bay and hauls until the Orca is empty. She then switches back to mining and the cycle repeats. This allows the Orca to stay on station and boosting and gives an increased overall yield vs the Hulk/Command Ship/Hauler setup. Plus -- no jet cans. I'm confused. Is this an epic quoting failure or did you just copy and paste someone else's post as your own?
Satrani Destiva Just Another Indy Corp	Posted - 2008.12.06 23:32:00 - [58] She said- Originally by: Lyvanna Kitaen I've been using a hybrid approach. I have one character mining in a Hulk, another in an Orca, and a third mines until the Orca is near full and then swaps her mining ship for a hauler from the Orca's bay and hauls until the Orca is empty. She then switches back to mining and the cycle repeats. This allows the Orca to stay on station and boosting and gives an increased overall yield vs the Hulk/Command Ship/Hauler setup. Plus -- no jet cans. Then he said Originally by: Ralph Larsen Originally by: Kev Hunter Originally by: Morgan Lorus Isnt it more like, you waste resources when you have a BC with Link just sitting there doing nothing? Instead you could use these resources for hauling, boosting with a little bonus at the same time and never got to deal with canflippers anymore. I have 3 accounts. One is a miner, one is a mining director, and one is a hauler. The mining director just idles there and gives mining bonuses. She's equipped with 2 command processors, so all 3 mining foreman links are equipped, active and running. The hauler hauls.. The miner mines.. If the orca docks, the mining bonuses go away until the orca undocks and re-enables all the mining foreman links. The investment is still a waste of ISK if it's all for 5 seconds less cycle times. The yield bonus is given in the same percentage proportion as the cycle times... all that time taken discussing the development of this ship was completely wasted and high sec mining is still not going to be efficient. I've been using a hybrid approach. I have one character mining in a Hulk, another in an Orca, and a third mines until the Orca is near full and then swaps her mining ship for a hauler from the Orca's bay and hauls until the Orca is empty. She then switches back to mining and the cycle repeats. This allows the Orca to stay on station and boosting and gives an increased overall yield vs the Hulk/Command Ship/Hauler setup. Plus -- no jet cans. Which was picked up by Originally by: Kyra Felann Originally by: Ralph Larsen I've been using a hybrid approach. I have one character mining in a Hulk, another in an Orca, and a third mines until the Orca is near full and then swaps her mining ship for a hauler from the Orca's bay and hauls until the Orca is empty. She then switches back to mining and the cycle repeats. This allows the Orca to stay on station and boosting and gives an increased overall yield vs the Hulk/Command Ship/Hauler setup. Plus -- no jet cans. I'm confused. Is this an epic quoting failure or did you just copy and paste someone else's post as your own? I can't believe no-one else saw it sooner. Brilliant. /derail. -
abraheam Dirty Denizens	Posted - 2008.12.08 00:16:00 - [59] Edited by: abraheam on 08/12/2008 00:21:11 I have not bought an Orca yet, but I will if I ever mine again. A three account mining gang would recieve a pretty big upgrade to the operation. Replacing the itty 5 hauler with an Orca adds ore through its bonuses, ore that was not there before. It is essentialy a combination of a command ship, and an itty 5 on steroids. Any additional ore would go directly to paying off the added cost of the Orca. The mining bonus of the Orca (you lose a little when you haul, but it is still a good enough), saved hauler reps (most important to me), tractor beam enhancements for management, and a little more immunity from can flippers is enough to justify the cost of an Orca. I do not operate as a minmaxer in real operations, and I dont mind being in investments for the long haul if the investment is me.

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