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Serra Serac
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Posted - 2008.12.05 08:02:00 -
[1]
SO I just started placing buy orders and they don't seem to work the way I thought they would. When I place it, I'm charged the amount of isk that it would cost for me to buy the items at the price I set, along with the fees (which is what I expected). But when someone sells some of the items to me, I'm charged again for the price those items, even though I already "bought" them al. Is this supposed to happen or do I get the isk I originally used to place the order back once the buy order is complete or canceled?
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Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
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Posted - 2008.12.05 08:04:00 -
[2]
You're not paying attention. You pay the entire cost of the buy order up front. Say for example you want fifty widgets at 1m each. You pay 50m plus fees. Then as people sell to your buy order, the money you put into the order is used to to pay them for their items.
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Serra Serac
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Posted - 2008.12.05 08:10:00 -
[3]
Thanks, I guess I wasn't checking my wallet balance. So will I get the remaining isk back if I cancel an order?
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Cheopis
Amarr
One Stop Mining Shop
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Posted - 2008.12.05 08:15:00 -
[4]
Do you have the Margin Trading skill?
If you do, you will see only part of the money pulled out of your account when you set up the buy order, and the rest incrementally, as that buy order fills.
If you do not have the Margin Trading skill, you will see one of your wallet logs display the cost of the entire purchase, while the other will track what you pay for each item. This is important, as it is possible for someone to sell into your buy order at less than your buy price, if they manually set a sale price unwisely. It also lets you review how much you paid for individual items, even after a buy order has closed.
Think of one of the wallet tabs as a stack of receipts, but the other as the actual list of stuff on those receipts.
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.12.05 08:16:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Serra Serac
Thanks, I guess I wasn't checking my wallet balance. So will I get the remaining isk back if I cancel an order?
Yes, minus the fees
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Cheopis
Amarr
One Stop Mining Shop
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Posted - 2008.12.05 08:17:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Serra Serac
Thanks, I guess I wasn't checking my wallet balance. So will I get the remaining isk back if I cancel an order?
Yes, minus the broker fee, iirc.
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Serra Serac
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Posted - 2008.12.06 09:29:00 -
[7]
Thanks everyone! I checked my wallet and it is working how I thought it would. I just started this type of stuff so I don't have that margin skill yet, but it sounds useful.
-serra
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.12.06 10:35:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Serra Serac
I just started this type of stuff so I don't have that margin skill yet, but it sounds useful.
Indeed it can be useful, and then there are other times I wish I had never trained it. Living in the "margin" while trading is great if you working quick turn around, but sometimes when you run a long term trade, it becomes a hassle to have it.
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.06 10:59:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Treelox
Indeed it can be useful, and then there are other times I wish I had never trained it. Living in the "margin" while trading is great if you working quick turn around, but sometimes when you run a long term trade, it becomes a hassle to have it.
I never have a problem with it, since I just check the 'orders' page of the wallet/market for the total amount of isk still due.
FREE! jumpclone service |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.06 16:39:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Treelox
Originally by: Serra Serac
I just started this type of stuff so I don't have that margin skill yet, but it sounds useful.
Indeed it can be useful, and then there are other times I wish I had never trained it. Living in the "margin" while trading is great if you working quick turn around, but sometimes when you run a long term trade, it becomes a hassle to have it.
Gotta agree here, as I shifted more of my actual trading into long term manipulation, margin has become more of a hassle than a benefit.
Makes me wish there was a 'Untrain' option |
Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.12.06 16:57:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Makes me wish there was a 'Untrain' option
I would be happy if there was just a check box on the order entry screen, similar to the checkbox for corp wallet, that would allow me to apply or not apply my margin skill to that particular order. Not something I am going to bother CCP with, just a pie in the sky dream of mine.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.06 17:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Treelox
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Makes me wish there was a 'Untrain' option
I would be happy if there was just a check box on the order entry screen, similar to the checkbox for corp wallet, that would allow me to apply or not apply my margin skill to that particular order. Not something I am going to bother CCP with, just a pie in the sky dream of mine.
Simple and effective
Once Im done cleaning the house, I think I'll go post up something of a request for that in the features discussion forum. |
Rho'varo
Minmatar
Diversified Operational Services
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Posted - 2008.12.06 20:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Treelox
A check box on the order entry screen, similar to the checkbox for corp wallet, that would allow me to apply or not apply my margin skill to that particular order.
I would like this as well. My recollection is that it was previously suggested (though perhaps now so long ago that the thread is locked).
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari
XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.12.06 20:37:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Treelox
Originally by: Serra Serac
I just started this type of stuff so I don't have that margin skill yet, but it sounds useful.
Indeed it can be useful, and then there are other times I wish I had never trained it. Living in the "margin" while trading is great if you working quick turn around, but sometimes when you run a long term trade, it becomes a hassle to have it.
Personally I like to put up very large volume, low value buy orders that way when a market goes into free-fall I can catch it there and make a small fortune in the process. The downside is that this doesn't happen all that often so I have to tie up a ton of money doing nothing for months or even years (all the while paying interest on it) so margin trading is what allows me to get away with that. I wish I could train it even higher.
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Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.07 00:18:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Originally by: Treelox
Originally by: Serra Serac
I just started this type of stuff so I don't have that margin skill yet, but it sounds useful.
Indeed it can be useful, and then there are other times I wish I had never trained it. Living in the "margin" while trading is great if you working quick turn around, but sometimes when you run a long term trade, it becomes a hassle to have it.
Personally I like to put up very large volume, low value buy orders that way when a market goes into free-fall I can catch it there and make a small fortune in the process. The downside is that this doesn't happen all that often so I have to tie up a ton of money doing nothing for months or even years (all the while paying interest on it) so margin trading is what allows me to get away with that. I wish I could train it even higher.
This sort of thing is why margin is valuable. The ability to place huge quantities of book orders to catch far out of balance markets. Ever since my trade alt has reached margin trading 4, I've maintained book orders a few times my cash assets for months. The day that I get cleaned out will be a good day.
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flakeys
Tier 3 Technologies Inc
Lazy is our middle name
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Posted - 2008.12.07 18:08:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Originally by: Treelox
Originally by: Serra Serac
I just started this type of stuff so I don't have that margin skill yet, but it sounds useful.
Indeed it can be useful, and then there are other times I wish I had never trained it. Living in the "margin" while trading is great if you working quick turn around, but sometimes when you run a long term trade, it becomes a hassle to have it.
Personally I like to put up very large volume, low value buy orders that way when a market goes into free-fall I can catch it there and make a small fortune in the process. The downside is that this doesn't happen all that often so I have to tie up a ton of money doing nothing for months or even years (all the while paying interest on it) so margin trading is what allows me to get away with that. I wish I could train it even higher.
Same here i do about 500 regional orders at the moment and the margin skill comes in handy for those verry low priced/high profit orders that occasionally start running.For example morphite at 1200 per unit is what i have running in one of my regions at the moment.
I have about 50 of those types of orders wich fill up slowly and unregularly but do have a verry high margin on them.With the margin skill i have a much smaller amount stuck in the trade-wallet for these types.
When i started training the skill a year ago and didn't have much isk spare for trades i must say it was more of a hassle then a help a lot of the times.But once you get more isk in the wallet and see how you can use this skill on a better way it is a verry nice thing to have.I have to agree though that it would be nice for starter traders with a small wallet to be able to turn this skill of and on as suggested.
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Zube Zwartraider
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Posted - 2008.12.08 12:18:00 -
[17]
A question on the margin trading skill, I changed the exact numbers for something more workable with the actual question:
If I place a buy order I pay around 1% broker fee and the buy price goes into escrow.
If I have margin trading only 25% of the buy price goes into escrow. Do I only pay the 1% of those 25% on the broker fees as well? Or do I pay the 1% of the whole order anyway?
So in numbers:
Without Margin trading:
- I place buy order for gizmo for 100 isk.
- Cash goes in escrow plus broker fees, my wallet shrinks with 101 isk.
With Margin trading:
- I place buy order for gizmo for 100 isk.
- 25 isk goes in escrow plus broker fees, my wallet shrinks by 25.25 isk (and 75 isk has to stay around in the wallet to pay the order as it gets filled)
Is the above true? Thanks.
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flakeys
Tier 3 Technologies Inc
Lazy is our middle name
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Posted - 2008.12.08 12:45:00 -
[18]
Yes you pay the full brokers fee.The margin skill only affects the price for the item itself.
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