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hawat92
Gallente Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:52:00 -
[91]
Aya please stop spilling your tears. You won't break the game you seem to despise so much by rusting it. I'm volunteering for your assets though.
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thoth foc
Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:52:00 -
[92]
Originally by: hawat92
Originally by: thoth foc An increasing number of players either make their isk in other ways or have accummulated large amounts of isk.. 0.0 is now largely just a playground for PVP
Sorry but this assertion is false. 90% at least of 0.0 players need to farm to sustain their living. You seem like cut out of reality there.
made up internet statistics are just the bestest posts, arent they..
I didnt state a number or players, so stating made up figures is a completely pointless way to "prove" your option correct..
The advent of very profitable lvl 4 agents and jump clones, reduces the need for 0.0 even single account players to make isk in 0.0..
------------------ x-DSMA (Menta) x-CA (OMEGA/BOS) x-.5.(ATUK) BOB (DICE) |
Scagga Laebetrovo
Minmatar Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:52:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Heath Ledger As to the OP's original lament that everyone is aligning with one side or the other, that will pretty generally happen in any game due to the human element.
Since EVE is essentially a sandbox game, the human element is much more potent, and as such emulates real life a bit more than others. This current behavior very closely correlates to the dividing up of the world between the United States and the USSR during the Cold War. Those that wanted to stay in power in terms of lesser nations chose sides, and more often than not suffered the perceived error of their choice through invasion, political intrique resulting in revolution, and other nasty results that are similar to what occurs in EVE right now.
Can't do much about it if its basic human nature.
Naturally there is little on can do about basic human nature - however I think the OP was also lamenting a perceived lack of enjoyment, which resonated with several people in the thread. With regards to making Eve enjoyable for more people, things can be done without compromising for others.
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Jebidus Skari
Amarr Comply Or Die G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:53:00 -
[94]
agree wiht op on this one..tbh its becoming very boring..same power blocs. I mean what about if they create new space..well we all know whos going to take that, no other alliances really have a chance anymore if your not in NC or GBC and really there are controlled by Bob for GBC and Morsus/Razor for NC thats it..congrats of course for such an achievement. and yes gods have achieved by taking deklein by at first not being on anyones side..but NC and co have decided to descend so we can try as much as poss but with 1000s of players not easier to defend lol...
So whats the answer? personally i think space needs to be split up more, more smaller regions, and alliances can only control a maximum of 2 of these smaller regions. thats it they can control no more...
this gives to people having space but also allows more alliances to get involved..if they dont win well the other alliance still cant take over the space...im not saying they cant drive the other alliance out, pos killing is still viable but they cant actually claim the space...this also leads to more skirmish warfare as well as fleet battles
Also make these smaller regions more cash rich, better moons, minerals etc....
You can also limit alliances numbers to say 500 or 1000 perhaps...
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Heath Ledger
Caldari Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:54:00 -
[95]
Well I would argue that although no one cares about the drone regions, the folks out there are a third power bloc as well.
Not that that in any way helps, but just something to think about.
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Wesley Baird
Caldari BURN EDEN Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:55:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
Also make these smaller regions more cash rich, better moons, minerals etc....
You can also limit alliances numbers to say 500 or 1000 perhaps...
Problem is people will work around those kinds of limits, by making associations that are different in name only.
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InSession
Amarr Minmatar Mafia Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:55:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Kal'Kalagan Edited by: Kal''Kalagan on 08/12/2008 10:23:46 The answer is simple, remove jump bridges and the jump bridge ability of Titans. Traffic will re-appear in the pipes, more small gang warefare will take place. Alliance will be forced to reduce their space holdings if they want to effectively defend them. Small alliances will have a chance of remaining independant and warefare will gradually become inter-regional gain as oppssed to the 3 massive power blocks controlling pretty much everything.
Jump bridges and Titans have ruined a lot of good stuff in Eve thats for sure. . Combined with capital blobs skill is no longeer the major factor in Eve, its who can bring the most numbers - thats got to be wrong.
I completely agree with this. I have been in both big alliances and small alliances, and even single corporations. I prefer being small, because I enjoy small skirmishes, however they are extremely rare. Before JB's, I remember being a noob in a big alliance reading intel "5 neuts are terrorizing our pipe, let's get a gang up and kill them." That was always fun for the big alliance, and fun for the small group of PvPers. Now that I am not a noob anymore, I'm the guy disrupting the pipe, but due to JB's I run into two problems.
1) People don't use pipes anymore, unless it's the first time to their new 0.0 home and they don't have the JB passwords.
2) I go attack the alliance now at their station risking my ship and pod to station systems with 50+ people in system just so I can get a fight. Usually I manage to kill a blind ratter in a belt, and I leave. On my way out of the pipe I find the same people that were 15 jumps away now in front of me camping me. How is that fair? Now I have to go all the way around some other way to just get out of their space.
JB's have really hurt small gang warfare. CCP, if you want to revive skirmish warfare, remove the JB system. Make EVE feel big again, and remove rewards for lazy people.
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The Mittani
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:55:00 -
[98]
ok so let me get this straight
goodfellas and tri are itt whining about powerblocs and napfests
yet they only have their space on account of being bob-installed pets
live by the sword, etc
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attitude man
Minmatar eXceed Inc. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:56:00 -
[99]
Originally by: The Mittani ok so let me get this straight
goodfellas and tri are itt whining about powerblocs and napfests
yet they only have their space on account of being bob-installed pets
live by the napland, etc
fix for u
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The Mittani
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:57:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Heath Ledger Well I would argue that although no one cares about the drone regions, the folks out there are a third power bloc as well.
Not that that in any way helps, but just something to think about.
that's the expanded RA + independent oligarchs bloc (death and mactep's crew)
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The Mittani
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:58:00 -
[101]
Originally by: attitude man
Originally by: The Mittani ok so let me get this straight
goodfellas and tri are itt whining about powerblocs and napfests
yet they only have their space on account of being bob-installed pets
live by the napland, etc
fix for u
ok im glad we cleared that up
next time don't be pets
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Wesley Baird
Caldari BURN EDEN Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.08 17:01:00 -
[102]
Originally by: The Mittani ok so let me get this straight
goodfellas and tri are itt whining about powerblocs and napfests
yet they only have their space on account of being bob-installed pets
live by the sword, etc
Please try and stay on topic, if you feel the game is heading in the right direction fine, make that statement. If you believe changes to various mechanics can improve the game for the better for most people post your idea's...if you will notice, some people who are enjoying the success of their respective powerblocs have posted great ideas and suggestions rather than played the political game.
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EangleOne
Gallente The Maverick Navy Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.08 17:05:00 -
[103]
Originally by: attitude man
Originally by: EangleOne Wasn't there a discussion about make jumpbridge become standalone object in space, instead of module of POS; fuel-free, show on overview, and accessable for anyone?
This could be an interesting idea for this thread maybe?
i guess it called "stargate"
Well, "player-owned-stargate" than. This seems to be a much better design and causing lots less problem than current JB system.
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hawat92
Gallente Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.12.08 17:05:00 -
[104]
Edited by: hawat92 on 08/12/2008 17:05:55 Useless.
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SkwisgaarSkwigelf
Minmatar C.R.M Productions Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2008.12.08 17:10:00 -
[105]
If all you do is remove Jump Bridges, it makes pos warfare even more interminable than it already is. Large hostile fleet forms up, reinforces a system before any defenders can organize and get there, due to being spread out. No Defensive fights happen, Pos's go into reinforced, defending fleet forms up as big as possible with as many advantages as they can get (titans etc) and repairs the pos's. Next week they go and do the same thing. While not terribly different than the way it is now, you effectively remove any defensive fleet battle.
My $0.02 based on my limited experience with pos warfare thus far in eve.
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Reverand Pastor
Caldari Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2008.12.08 17:12:00 -
[106]
It seems when a serious discussion comes up CCP is nowhere around. If a goon starts a thread its locked within 30 minutes. I find that rather strange and telling of the attitude put forward.
So far most(and im using these words losely as there isnt any stats to back it up) agree more NPC regions between sov systems and low sec/empire would be outstanding.also dyspro moons need to be revised.
Some feel jumpbridges need to be removed/reworked, and yet even more feel poses for sov are teh suck.
Having more 0.0 NPC space would be an outstanding way to create and craft your corp and having a ton of fun at the same time.
Im interested to hear more about jumpbridges amd there rework? or removal?
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The Mittani
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.08 17:20:00 -
[107]
Edited by: The Mittani on 08/12/2008 17:20:54
Originally by: Wesley Baird
Please try and stay on topic, if you feel the game is heading in the right direction fine, make that statement. If you believe changes to various mechanics can improve the game for the better for most people post your idea's...if you will notice, some people who are enjoying the success of their respective powerblocs have posted great ideas and suggestions rather than played the political game.
the core assumption of the topic has been debunked (4 powerblocs in 2006, 4 powerblocs in 2008)
all that remains is to point out the motivation behind those whining the loudest itt (tri, goodfellas) and expose the real issue: they are upset about losing their space.
my position re: titan doomsdays being dumb is hardly a new contribution, the best fleet slugfest we've had in ages was in vng when titans were broken due to a bug, it was a massive battle with tremendous casualties and no one-click fight enders
edit: IMPORTANT UPDATE: ~fart~
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Arcanoil
Caldari Corsairs Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.08 17:31:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Malcanis I've been saying it for a long time, and I still think I'm correct: We need at least 4 more NPC 0.0 regions like Curse.
I agree with him and also would say that more entry to 0.0 regions is required. And some 0.0 npc area need to be balanced, some are really lacking of staions.
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Janu Hull
Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.12.08 17:31:00 -
[109]
I don't agree with this assessment at all.
Quote: The problem as I see it is that Eve is polarising into basically two power blocks who I think within a not too long period of time will control all of 0.0. Sure there are different alliances but these alliances are gonna basically come down to either being NC friendly or GBC friendly.
So what? The existance of the major power blocs stabilizes 0.0 enough to develop it. You have hot and heavy action on the borders, and you have enough safe space to feed the war machine. That's kinda the point of a player 'empire'. Its not just logging in, undocking, and blasting everything in sight, you have to have the ability to support that effort, or you've got maybe a month, at best, before you're reduced to running missions in empire or buying GTCs.
As far as I'm concerned, the big blocs open the door for players to do everything from building ships, fitting ships, and going off to blow them up in style without ever having to leave 0.0. Completely divorced from the lunacy of empire.
And believe me, the sovreignty mechanics aren't what keeps the major alliances alive and kicking, kick ass leadership is. Say what you will about BoB or Goonswarm, somewhere in the core of those alliances are people who know how to keep members friggin' MOTIVATED. That's a compliment to both sides, they deserve to be where they are in the game because of it. I've seen entrenched alliances with all the sovreign mechanical advantages you could ever ask for implode and die horribly because the leaders failed to motivate their members.
The power blocs exist for a reason. No matter how you shift the mechanics, you won't avoid the inevitable accumulation of power through consent and concensus. Successful people accumulate respect (however begrudging) and authority. Human nature. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
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mad27k
Caldari Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.12.08 17:32:00 -
[110]
due to changes in the game, the term "blob or be blobbed" becomes more and more true....
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David Godfrey
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2008.12.08 17:35:00 -
[111]
I agree with the OP, but like others said solutions which are practically viable need to be offered aswell. And its not about so and so whine! its fact the direction of the game at the moment sucks imho. ---------------------------------
A fun loving guy :( |
Aristrat
Amarr SRBI Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2008.12.08 17:53:00 -
[112]
Considering blobs...EVE is not to blame for this. It's simple in human nature to do things that way. People are social beings and that kind of behavior is embedded in our psychology. Forming power blocks and polarizing will occur in virtual world as in real one we are living in. You can not stop that process...only encourage or discourage it, but the tendencies will always remain.
Still, through game mechanics changes EVE can become much more fun place. Few months ago i proposed 'Target Saturation' model with DPS stacking penalties based on number of turrets, their sig resolutions, signatures of target etc. This would discourage large blobs (they would be hard to organize and be effective and efficient like small gangs) and make PVP experience more complex and enjoyable (now PVP is mostly ALL shoot PRIMARY). With such model it would be possible to achieve victory with inferior numbers but with superior skills, over some big blob... Big battles would be more complex and interesting this way too.
If you want to reanimate solo/small gang PVP you have to change current LOCAL system, and make it less transparent, less alarming and more hard to acqure information and be aware who is sneaking upon you. Nowadays it is too damn hard to kill someone who dont want to fight but want to run.
Personally, I would like to see those aggression timers (both NPC and PVP) to last much longer, so logoffski tactics can not be used as it is used now and everyone who log off to avoid fight should be easely scanned and killed.
Jump to gate (station) to zero should be canceled, and new jump probability mechanics should be introduced so the lower sec system you are in, the lower chance you will jump at zero to gate/station will be and distance from it will be bigger. At the same time in zone around gate/station it would be not possible to make BMs so it's all ok...
Lowering scanning time with cov ops (recon probe launcher) would be good idea too, and some changes to ship scanner mechanics...
There is no any MOON PROBLEM in EVE. Moons have to be rewarding, and whole 0.0 has to be more rewarding than it is now. What do you want?! To cancel all reasons for living in 0.0 and space holding so everyone can back to empire and mine veldspar so we all can be one big happy family? There must be some valuable resources to fight for or game will become totally stagnant as there is enough everything for everyone. Who wants to be rich and powerful...well...come and get some! Why should be possible for weak and bad organized corporations and alliances to enjoy wealth which elite can provide for themselves?
And one more thing...TITAN is not overpowered ship. In fact it's underpowered. What do you want and expect from ship which cost over 60b isk? That things can be said only by people who didn't try to undertake such a enterprise as building/buying/acquiring one of those is! Same is for logistics (jump bridges/freighters/carriers). Try to plan, organize and get things done than say its too damn easy. Not all of us are living one jump from empire you know...
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HakanSherif
Minmatar Amok.
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Posted - 2008.12.08 17:56:00 -
[113]
There is lots of b**** in this thread, ppl who cant do or doesnt want to do what it takes to do are complaining so the game is nerfed and they will have a better chance.
Granted nano nerf was uber bull and lag is still annoying but the mechanics of the game are still allowing ppl to build things up even from scratch.
Ofcourse it will be harder compared to already established ones but the answer is never to nerf the excisting ones to make room for new ones coz you wont like it when it happens to you.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.12.08 18:04:00 -
[114]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 08/12/2008 18:06:06
Originally by: hawat92
Originally by: thoth foc An increasing number of players either make their isk in other ways or have accummulated large amounts of isk.. 0.0 is now largely just a playground for PVP
Sorry but this assertion is false. 90% at least of 0.0 players need to farm to sustain their living. You seem like cut out of reality there.
Second, Minigin is delusional in his post. Chill out, relax, have a beer.
I have probebly not made a single isk from farming 0.0 in about 2 years. Hardly anybody I know can be arsed to make any isk from 0.0 other than moon mining, which is a mostly alt affair anyway. Therefor, I can never go bankrupt as my alt will keep making the cash.
I personally make more isk in high sec with a alt than any ratter/miner could dream of making. Most people I know have half a dozen ships stockpiled. heck, even myself have a pile of Navy Apocs ready to blow. Even making isk nowadays is compleatly brain dead.
People can even have a high-sec lvl4 alt running a t2 fitted afk tank who brings in enough isk to permanently fund t2 fitted BS's due to how insurance works. Lets go a step further - the 2 alts on each account bringing in datacores can fund quite a few BS's by themselves. Afk tank means that they can make isk while they pvp on their main, meaning no loss of combat presence.
Just because 90% of your alliance might see farming 0.0 as making isk, that does not mean its true. If anything, its probebly the other way around. 0.0 is just a battleground for most pvpers, not a breadwinner. --
Billion Isk Mission |
Wesley Baird
Caldari BURN EDEN Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.08 18:06:00 -
[115]
Originally by: The Mittani
the core assumption of the topic has been debunked (4 powerblocs in 2006, 4 powerblocs in 2008)
I disagree as all four you indicated are in fact aligned down the middle...meaning we have a GBC side of things and a Goons/NC side of things.
I suspect that relatively soon there could very well be one aligned side with the other broken. I hope this is not the case, but I cannot see how the GBC side of things can withstand the combined power of Goons/NC powerbloc. NC alone can field 200+ dreads, combine that with the large capital fleet of the Goons and Drone regions and you have a capital fleet that is unstoppable.
I don't want to derail this thread, as the discussion for the most part has been excellent! I hope CCP is reading!
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Raketefrau
Caldari Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.08 18:14:00 -
[116]
I expected to see a huge thread of "shut up whiner," instead most everyone posting seems to be in agreement.
I started playing Eve thinking it would be cool to get the feeling of huge expanses of space. That's just not the case anymore. You can go from deep 0.0 to empire in 5 or 6 jumps max in a non-cap ship, and even less in a cap ship.
It doesn't feel like deep space anymore. At all. 80 jumps out from empire might as well be 3 jumps out from empire.
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Orange Faeces
Minmatar THE INTERNET.
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Posted - 2008.12.08 18:14:00 -
[117]
Confirming this as the worst thread ever...
Also, there are two other things that you people need to consider...
1. When CCP gets rid of local, there will be massive changes in the way 0.0 operates. Many of the whines in this thread about how jump bridges make it too easy to project power and all that fail stuff will be critically different. Small and even large gangs will be able to slice into carebear areas with ease getting the gank on high-value assets. Looking forward to that...
2. "Dyspro moons and blobbing and naptrain, ONOES!" Let me explain it all to you. BoB confirms their intent to cleanse all of 0.0 for themselves, snatching moons and everything of value for themselves. This is an existential threat to everyone else in 0.0 (unless you don't hold space but i'll get to that in a second). So, they all react by setting each other blue. It may not have happened over night, but consider how different 0.0 looked before MAX. Or before D2 was cleansed. Think about it.
You can, of course, just fly around and not hold space like tri... but they only do that because they have so much ebay isk they don't need to rat or mine.
anyway...
go back to touching each other.
--- The Other Orange |
Ivana Cuminski
Gallente Inter Stellar Terror
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Posted - 2008.12.08 18:15:00 -
[118]
Poasting in "Get off my lawn" thread.
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Kirana Si
Amarr Tri-Mining Corp Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.12.08 18:21:00 -
[119]
The biggest problem is that little effort that is needed to keep Sov. running. Have a dedicated person per corp with a JF and you are done. Look @ ***** ( won`t name here any alliance because every1 here taking internet spaceships too serious ) 3 month ago, a core of 100 actives could maintain all the spread out systems they hold Sov. in. When I joined the game and had to get my stuff 40-50 jumps into 0.0 it was a huge hazzle and was a 2-3 hour trip when you were lucky, now its a 10min trip via jumpbridges, thats just plain wrong.
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Presidio
Minmatar ZipZoom Kaboom Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.12.08 18:32:00 -
[120]
1.) more 0.0 space 2.) 0.0 needs to be more rewarding. L4-5 missions in high sec shouldn't rival the income of an average pilot in 0.0. -
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