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thoth foc
Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.12.08 15:28:00 -
[61]
The biggest problem in 0.0 is that so few ppl actually "live" in the 0.0 areas they "control".. i'm sure i could start Malachon on sovereignty changes :P but largely i agree.. i notice someone else has already mentioned a similar observation..
An increasing number of players either make their isk in other ways or have accummulated large amounts of isk.. 0.0 is now largely just a playground for PVP, combine this with tech 1 insurance.. there is very little cost to this aspect of eve.. There is nothing to force you to do anything outside a blob (with the hugh potential to petition loses), and that is largely insured.. ------------------ x-DSMA (Menta) x-CA (OMEGA/BOS) x-.5.(ATUK) BOB (DICE) |
Acid Man2
Caldari Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.08 15:29:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Jallem Sims
Originally by: Kurt Ambrose
This. Also adding more 0.0 regions would be good.
been to catch recently? before -A- rolled through, iac had a active system.... now, its dead :-/
the is enough systems, just big alliances holding it, and people have to pay to reside in it.
but to add to what is the deep residing problem with eve... a group of old chars, been playing far to much internetspace ships have too many alts, controlling too much. I mean, these wars are had over msn/or other chat chennels/voice comms not in eve, in eve we just take part!
Funny that I left a JC down there with some implants a while ago, jumped into FAT last night, hoenstly not expecting to be able to get more than a few jumps, there was 1 Goon in FAT, max 3 neuts in any of the systems on the way down, went through F4 was empty, up through Litom to Doril, no one, and Doril had 1 red and 1 neut, for any small corps alliances that want to try 0.0 go through Doril Those systems used to have 100's of IAC and IAC's Reds, now it's like a ghost town. But I don't agree with knee jerk removing JB's, I think they should only work within the one region, so you can hop around there all you like, but not attach any outside the region to them. just my $2
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Narciss Sevar
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.12.08 15:36:00 -
[63]
Originally by: thoth foc The biggest problem in 0.0 is that so few ppl actually "live" in the 0.0 areas they "control".. i'm sure i could start Malachon on sovereignty changes :P but largely i agree.. i notice someone else has already mentioned a similar observation..
An increasing number of players either make their isk in other ways or have accummulated large amounts of isk.. 0.0 is now largely just a playground for PVP, combine this with tech 1 insurance.. there is very little cost to this aspect of eve.. There is nothing to force you to do anything outside a blob (with the hugh potential to petition loses), and that is largely insured..
It has become increasingly harder through game design to even catch anyone making isk in 0.0, so why bother?
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laotse
Gallente The Flying Dutchmen
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Posted - 2008.12.08 15:39:00 -
[64]
1 solution rotate dyspro moons and such after 1 monht its empty and pop,s up somewhere els in eve
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Atropos Kahn
Caldari Solarflare Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.08 15:44:00 -
[65]
First off, 0.0 is a lifestyle, and holding SOV in it is only good for supporting large Alliance industrial projects such as capital production, which is only there to support the 0.0 sov. (vicious cycle)
I lived in 0.0 for 2.5 Years. The endless POS chains, BLOB fleets, SOV defense... was burnt out tbh...
We recently got booted out of Vale... thought it was the end of EVE for me.
Now that we are living in low sec, it is surprisingly a breath of fresh air... We are back to having fun as a corp, no more alliance crapola to deal with. No more SOV worries, no more gate camping blobs... No more finding BLUES all over the place.
It is just about grabbing a beer with corp mates, forming a 5-10 man roaming gang, and heading out into 0.0 for some pew pew... when we are done... head back home to low sec and call it a day... reminisce about the Raven kill.. or how we got pwnd buy some hot dropping black ops BS fleet... it is all about the fun.. How can it get any better than that?... It cant...
So, at first I had the same worries... what if it comes down to 2 factions... But then I thought...so what...I have realized that there will always be people who will be neither, you can count on it.
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Elitus
Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.12.08 15:48:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Elitus on 08/12/2008 15:48:39
Originally by: laotse 1 solution rotate dyspro moons and such after 1 monht its empty and pop,s up somewhere els in eve
All that does is cause problems for both the attacker & the defender.
Defenders have to waste full days Anchoring / unanchoring towers. Attackers have the agro of having to remap the whole region every 30 days inorder to find these new deposits, and try to remove them from enemy hands
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Breaky Uzumaki
Caldari The Greater Moon GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.08 15:55:00 -
[67]
You could just cut the amount of dyspro dependent reaction materials in T2 production down by about 75% and boost the amount of cheaper more available materials up 75% or so.
This way, moon mining is still necessary, but holding onto one or two particular moon types becomes less profitable.
This in combination with something like being able to invite NPC agents to sov 4 capitals, mining bonuses to Sov 4 linked areas etc, would ensure that people who hold space and have invested in it via outposts get to reap the benefits.
You could even scale up ore amounts and mission payouts against the distance from the nearest lowsec system, making deeper and deeper 0.0 space more worth the additional logistics investment.
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tikki
Caldari Malicious Intentions
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:01:00 -
[68]
I don't see adding 0.0 space make any difference....tell me if I'm wrong here:
Either Current power bloc's NAP another alliance to hold that space and stay blue....OR
Current power blocks have no interest in the new space but do take all the the high end moons in the new space. They take Sov in the important systems and control the moons. The small alliances therefore can live in the new 0.0 space however it's the power blocs that are making all the serious isk from the moons.
Website MI killboard |
Minigin
Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:03:00 -
[69]
having not read a single word in this thread let me preach to you the problem with this game.
problem one... invention.
cheep t2 items are the worst thing that happend to this game. we have total morons flying around in ships with maxed capabilities and being able to replace them in a heartbeat. i am of the opinion that if you cant keep your ship alive you should have some real dificulty replacing it.
problem two... rigs and t1 insurance. no real risk flying a fleet bs. rigs prodomenantly used for extra tanking with no real adverse side effects.
problem three... jump bridges. yes... lets make 0.0 risk free... there can be no real problems with this surely... furthermore lets make it nice and easy for massive blobs to move around their space defending it.
problem four... people. we can complain about all the other things all we want... but tbh... its the player base that makes this game. until people realise that this is a game... and dont run around naping everyone in sight so they can keep carebearing and go around saying to their wives and children "hey i made 1 billion today" "what you got a job?" "no honey im still playing eve" yah screw you thats right im a ****ing kid but at least im playing this a game not as a second rl.
like seriously just change your faces and get back into skirmishes rather than this whole "OH GOD TCF COME TAKE THIS SPACE SO THAT WE CAN JERK EACH OTHER OFF AND NEVER BE THREATEND BY ANYONE!"
no instead i say "lets set everyone neut and go for our lives!"
but what am i saying... most of you have no rl's so depend on success in this game to go to sleep at night saying "ah i achieved something" rather than "ah i had fun"
so go diaf...
oh man im totaly getting a caod ban for this... but whatever... and you all know its ****ing true!
ps. no more rum... its a pirates drink! . MINIGIN! The original colour poster - now surrounding you in limegreen.
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compost
Caldari Hunters Agency
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:03:00 -
[70]
An alternative to power blocks owning all the moons could be to make pos with moon harvesters unstrontable. therefore having to be protected. Yes would be a big pain for the holders but would give smaller gangs something to do. As powerblocks would have to respond straight away not in 24hours |
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K Shara
Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:09:00 -
[71]
Darknesss emo whine thread spotted
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Aya
Gallente coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:11:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Aya on 08/12/2008 16:14:22 There have been some good ideas in this thread so I will add my 2 cents
Already Discussed: -Removed Jump Bridges -Remove Titan Bridges -Add more 0.0 Regions -Remove Insurance from 0.0
I 100% agree with this but I think something that would stop the Catch Dillema would be to make POS work a chore for the alliances involved. If Pos's actually lost you money instead of gained you would not see alliances holding entire regions they are not using.
Instead of making +890M Isk a week on a dyspro moon, what if net profit from holding these moons was -100M/week (remeber this is a theory and not subject to actual game balacing numbers). Do you think that people would run around claiming systems they dont want, just because they didnt like having a neighbor that wanted to shoot them.
Not only would unused regions such as Catch be released but it would reduce the number of PoS's holding sov in a system to a managable number. Make it a real chore to hold space as far as money goes, and make people work to keep their space instead of throw up some pos's, fuel it once every 30 days, and form up a huge nap fest if some new aspiring corp wishes to touch my isk network.
Look at the maps of 1-2 years ago, especially the drone regions, and you will see 10-20 alliances holding areas, now its 2-3 alliances holding 5+ regions, of which they have 1 HQ and 2 other hubs they actually use.
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Minigin
Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:11:00 -
[73]
Originally by: K Shara Darknesss emo whine thread spotted
seriously just go join the NC about it... im not even going to complain anymore... . MINIGIN! The original colour poster - now surrounding you in limegreen.
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Spartan dax
Caldari eXceed Inc. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:15:00 -
[74]
Originally by: thoth foc The biggest problem in 0.0 is that so few ppl actually "live" in the 0.0 areas they "control".. i'm sure i could start Malachon on sovereignty changes :P but largely i agree.. i notice someone else has already mentioned a similar observation..
This. Sov mechanics aside, the number one issue with these superlarge alliances isn't the fact that they have many pilots or have huge cap fleets or great logistics, the problem is that it's too easy (all relative obviously) for them to control all their vast amount of space.
There is no small corp that can get into an area controlled by any entity "under the radar" of a large alliance, put up a small POS and carefully rat/mine/pirate. Local and DED messages will give them straight away and thus we're seeing huge vasts of space just being unused. Territorial control is just way too easy.
With a 0.0 that isn't controlled via evemail or a quick local check, alliances would actually be forced to exert control over their territory making upkeep a ***** in terms of man hours and not just isk through towerfuel.
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Smith
Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:24:00 -
[75]
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Aceoil To destroy a power bloc, one has to think outside the blox.
or have bob help steal their targets
You redeemed yourself.
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Wesley Baird
Caldari BURN EDEN Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:25:00 -
[76]
Good thread some nice idea's (thanks for the troll angel, just couldnt stop yourself I guess).
Human nature naturally leads to larger and larger coalitions of people. There is no way to stop that, and as someone rightly pointed out, much of the current conflicts are played out via MSN, TS and email.
Massive changes to mechanics are probably not going to happen, as most alternative sov mechanics still favour those who can maximize their relationships.
The addition of more NPC space, between sov holding space seems like an idea most would accept.
The removal of Jump Bridges, titan portals and jump freighters also seems to be something that would help limit an alliances ability to project power.
I found Shadoo's idea of holding sov causing rat bounties and or moon mining efficiency to drop to be very interesting and one I had not considered. I suspect most would disagree with this notion, however even in game terms it would make sense that the more valuable (see wanted) NPC's are forced out of systems as a sov holder gains a presence, not sure how you could explain less moon material, but rat value dropping makes sense.
Great thread CAOD! More idea's please.
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EangleOne
Gallente The Maverick Navy Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:27:00 -
[77]
Wasn't there a discussion about make jumpbridge become standalone object in space, instead of module of POS; fuel-free, show on overview, and accessable for anyone?
This could be an interesting idea for this thread maybe?
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hawat92
Gallente Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:29:00 -
[78]
Originally by: thoth foc An increasing number of players either make their isk in other ways or have accummulated large amounts of isk.. 0.0 is now largely just a playground for PVP
Sorry but this assertion is false. 90% at least of 0.0 players need to farm to sustain their living. You seem like cut out of reality there.
Second, Minigin is delusional in his post. Chill out, relax, have a beer.
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Aya
Gallente coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:34:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Aya on 08/12/2008 16:34:32
Originally by: The Mittani Edited by: The Mittani on 08/12/2008 14:50:27 nostalgia is a fallacy in eve just as elsewhere; people revise history into a rosier picture than it was
in early 2006 there were four power blocs (soco, ra, d2, bob)
today there are four power blocks (rsf, nc, bob, aaa/se/rol)
Ok mr. goonie I have drawn you a map to help explain this, because we all know goonswarm cannot read
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9403/newmapyk2.jpg
P.S. now accepting job offers for my pro-paintshop abilities
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The Mittani
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:36:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Aya Edited by: Aya on 08/12/2008 16:34:32
Originally by: The Mittani Edited by: The Mittani on 08/12/2008 14:50:27 nostalgia is a fallacy in eve just as elsewhere; people revise history into a rosier picture than it was
in early 2006 there were four power blocs (soco, ra, d2, bob)
today there are four power blocks (rsf, nc, bob, aaa/se/rol)
Ok mr. goonie I have drawn you a map to help explain this, because we all know goonswarm cannot read
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9403/newmapyk2.jpg
P.S. now accepting job offers for my pro-paintshop abilities
man im glad someone from tri was able to teach me about 0.0 politics
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Scagga Laebetrovo
Minmatar Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:37:00 -
[81]
Some of these ideas have been mentioned before.
POS/Stations - Make moon mining modules only operate outside of POS shields - Make it possible to damage stations to the extent that they are 'derelict', requiring extensive investment to return to operational capacity - Allow mobile infrastructure (i.e. sub-POS capacity) in the form of mobile ship hangars, ship-fitting arrays, refineries and factories. These can operate as solo modules and act as hidden, undefended supply points for mobile gangs
Ship classes - The Anti-Capital ship: Form of T2 battleship that can fit XL guns, but no siege ability. Moderate tank, is effectively a glass cannon vs capitals - Suicide ships: Introduce a module that can rig any ship to turn it into a moving bomb, while sacrificing HP and ability to fit any other significant modules or receive insurance. Excellent at making blob warfare very risky if used en masse. Ask for details if interested, I've written this one up
Module changes - Cloaks: Make cloaks use cap + cancel capacitor recharge when cloak is activated. This means one cannot remain AFK cloaked indefinitely, nor use a cloak hide while recharging cap for repeated DD's on a titan.
More coming up when I remember them.
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hawat92
Gallente Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:37:00 -
[82]
You forgaot to put AAA as GBC pets.
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Aya
Gallente coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:38:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Aya on 08/12/2008 16:39:04
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Aya Edited by: Aya on 08/12/2008 16:34:32
Originally by: The Mittani Edited by: The Mittani on 08/12/2008 14:50:27 nostalgia is a fallacy in eve just as elsewhere; people revise history into a rosier picture than it was
in early 2006 there were four power blocs (soco, ra, d2, bob)
today there are four power blocks (rsf, nc, bob, aaa/se/rol)
Ok mr. goonie I have drawn you a map to help explain this, because we all know goonswarm cannot read
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9403/newmapyk2.jpg
P.S. now accepting job offers for my pro-paintshop abilities
man im glad someone from tri was able to teach me about 0.0 politics
Its not hard, 1. Blue everything in site (Goons already did this - see map for more details) 2. Call all your friends in a 30 man corp attacks you (Goons did this - see map for list of friends you can call on) 3. Smack on forums how elite your alliance is (Another check for goons - see Caod)
I'd say you already have the politics down therefore I do not need to teach you much more
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attitude man
Minmatar eXceed Inc. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:38:00 -
[84]
Originally by: EangleOne Wasn't there a discussion about make jumpbridge become standalone object in space, instead of module of POS; fuel-free, show on overview, and accessable for anyone?
This could be an interesting idea for this thread maybe?
i guess it called "stargate"
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The Mittani
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:39:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Aya
Its not hard, 1. Blue everything in site (Goons already did this) 2. Call all your friends in a 30 man corp attacks you (Goons did this) 3. Smack on forums how elite your alliance is (Another check for goons)
I'd say you already have the politics down therefore I do not need to teach you much more
oh hey thank you maybe you can teach me how to improve my k/d ratio next
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Popperr
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:39:00 -
[86]
I'm glad to see that despite serious competition a clear frontrunner for worst thread ever to appear on caod has appeared.
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Heath Ledger
Caldari Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:45:00 -
[87]
As to the OP's original lament that everyone is aligning with one side or the other, that will pretty generally happen in any game due to the human element.
Since EVE is essentially a sandbox game, the human element is much more potent, and as such emulates real life a bit more than others. This current behavior very closely correlates to the dividing up of the world between the United States and the USSR during the Cold War. Those that wanted to stay in power in terms of lesser nations chose sides, and more often than not suffered the perceived error of their choice through invasion, political intrique resulting in revolution, and other nasty results that are similar to what occurs in EVE right now.
Can't do much about it if its basic human nature.
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Aya
Gallente coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:45:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Aya on 08/12/2008 16:45:18
Originally by: The Mittani
oh hey thank you maybe you can teach me how to improve my k/d ratio next
Another easy lesson, 1. Blob, your chance of being called primary will be lower if you bring more pilots (4-1+ ratio prefered). Also you will make it on many many killmails in the process (if enemy fights) 2. ??? Blob again?
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The Mittani
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:51:00 -
[89]
are you suggesting that goonswarm has no honor and blobs?
why
my god
i'd better quit the alliance right now
whats next, metagaming?
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Wesley Baird
Caldari BURN EDEN Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.08 16:51:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Heath Ledger As to the OP's original lament that everyone is aligning with one side or the other, that will pretty generally happen in any game due to the human element.
Since EVE is essentially a sandbox game, the human element is much more potent, and as such emulates real life a bit more than others. This current behavior very closely correlates to the dividing up of the world between the United States and the USSR during the Cold War. Those that wanted to stay in power in terms of lesser nations chose sides, and more often than not suffered the perceived error of their choice through invasion, political intrique resulting in revolution, and other nasty results that are similar to what occurs in EVE right now.
Can't do much about it if its basic human nature.
We agree 100% about human nature, but what mechanics and or changes can we introduce to make 0.0 viable outside of the two powerblocs, or what will become one powerbloc? Or is this even a concern for eve as a whole?
From my perspective I would like to see alliances exist in an non-aligned fashion, however the community as a whole may not even agree with this notion...from what I have read it appears most would agree changes should take place.
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