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Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2008.12.08 18:51:00 - [1] Yea yea...3 threads in an hour or so. I'm bored at work what can I say? Originally it was thought that since the universe is expanding, it would snap back and be the "end" of the universe. Now-a-days it's widely believed that the universe will be ripped apart. Well...The way I look at it...take a balloon for example. It stretches as it expands, not just parts of it, the whole thing expands, even if some parts near what would be the "center" don't expand as much as the outter most parts, they still expand even to the tiniest fraction of distance. There's a few things that are different between the expanding balloon and our expanding universe. The balloon has resistances. It can't keep expanding because it has boundries, limitations, lack of material to forever expand. So what can we say about the Universe? What resistances does it have? Antimatter isn't a resistance to the expanding universe...Dark Matter is supposedly causing the expansion... So if every part of the balloon is expanding, shouldn't the same happen with the universe? I don't seem to be stretching in any way...(exaggerated example I know) All the planets are staying intact... Now one thing about this expansion that gets me is if everything came from one big bang...one sigularity...then it was just like an explosion right? No boundries, no resistance, no drag. So let just go outside the box just a tad bit here. On Earth we have explosives. We get to see these all the time. Fireworks is a great example so I'll use that. When you see a regular firework go off in the sky what happens to it? There's a great flash, and the explosion expands uniformly, slows down, and falls back to earth. Expands due to force of explosion. Slows down due to resistance to air and drag, falls to Earth due to gravity. Space is vacuum, expansion is unknown to be uniform, expansion has no resistance so is supposedly speeding up. Now then, the Milky Way is going to merge with Andromedia(sp?). Gravity of the two galaxies are bringing them together. Well, I'm not even sure how to word what I want to say for this part. The uniformity and "big bang" should cause all matter to travel in a straight direction from the source of the singularity, due to increasing expansion speed, I don't see any possible way for two galaxies to merge due to gravity unless the expansion/speed the galaxies are moving has slowed down. The further two objects travel from a single source, even at very close interval, will be significantly farther from each other with a large ammount of time. It might just be the strange way I think about things, but is it at all possible that there were multiple "Big Bangs." No, I'm not an expert on this stuff. I just like to question everything I see/hear/learn about before I actually claim it as proof, and I'm sure not all of my little ramblings are 100% true or accurate. Using comparisons isn't always the right way to go, but I have to use "something" to explain my thoughts, and thought processes. Holy wall of text I know... I have a cute little theory on why the moon has one side always facing us that supplements the common center of mass theory. Voluntold, Webcomic Podlings, EVE based Webcomic
kor anon Amarr The Tuskers	Posted - 2008.12.08 18:53:00 - [2] i think it will expand for eternity until all stars fade away into nothingness. not an exciting way to go tbh
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2008.12.08 18:57:00 - [3] Originally by: kor anon i think it will expand for eternity until all stars fade away into nothingness. not an exciting way to go tbh Just realized that was what I was going to say at the end of that wall-o-text...Or something similar anyways. That's pretty much my thesis. I'm pretty horrible at write-ups like this. Voluntold, Webcomic Podlings, EVE based Webcomic
kor anon Amarr The Tuskers	Posted - 2008.12.08 18:58:00 - [4] Originally by: Karrade Krise Originally by: kor anon i think it will expand for eternity until all stars fade away into nothingness. not an exciting way to go tbh Just realized that was what I was going to say at the end of that wall-o-text...Or something similar anyways. That's pretty much my thesis. I'm pretty horrible at write-ups like this. no worries i have trouble with single sentences at times
Arianhod	Posted - 2008.12.08 18:59:00 - [5] Universe expands, we exist in a hole that we cannot see the edges of. There may exist other Universes expanding in our hole towards us, but because of the fact we are moving at approx c then we cannot see it till it hits us. tl;dr Look out for that universe! What Universe? Splat. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. Haruhiists - Supporting Linkification since 2008
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2008.12.08 19:01:00 - [6] Originally by: kor anon Originally by: Karrade Krise Originally by: kor anon i think it will expand for eternity until all stars fade away into nothingness. not an exciting way to go tbh Just realized that was what I was going to say at the end of that wall-o-text...Or something similar anyways. That's pretty much my thesis. I'm pretty horrible at write-ups like this. no worries i have trouble with single sentences at times You forgot your period. Everything has an end dammit! /end derailment of my own thread. I fail at Forums. Voluntold, Webcomic Podlings, EVE based Webcomic
kor anon Amarr The Tuskers	Posted - 2008.12.08 19:02:00 - [7] Originally by: Karrade Krise Originally by: kor anon Originally by: Karrade Krise Originally by: kor anon i think it will expand for eternity until all stars fade away into nothingness. not an exciting way to go tbh Just realized that was what I was going to say at the end of that wall-o-text...Or something similar anyways. That's pretty much my thesis. I'm pretty horrible at write-ups like this. no worries i have trouble with single sentences at times You forgot your period. Everything has an end dammit! /end derailment of my own thread. I fail at Forums. i loled good one
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2008.12.08 19:03:00 - [8] Edited by: Karrade Krise on 08/12/2008 19:05:38 Originally by: Arianhod Universe expands, we exist in a hole that we cannot see the edges of. There may exist other Universes expanding in our hole towards us, but because of the fact we are moving at approx c then we cannot see it till it hits us. tl;dr Look out for that universe! What Universe? Splat. looks at OP looks at above post I wish I could think as simply as that... edit just thought of something else...The Universe to me is like a run-on-sentence that never ends. HA! yea suck it universe! Voluntold, Webcomic Podlings, EVE based Webcomic
Last Wolf Umbra Wing	Posted - 2008.12.08 20:10:00 - [9] What if our universe was a "Cell" to another organism. The Milky way and all other galaxies would be "Molecules" and Solar Systems would be "Atoms" The stars would be "Nuetrons/Protons" and Planets would be "Electrons". So in the grand scheme of things were just little insignificant dots on a single electron that makes up part of a cell on some celestial being's ass. Enjoy your meaningful life! Besides, I'm never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.12.08 20:12:00 - [10] actually, nowadays an emerging theory is that the universe is flat, and therefor has the capacity to be infinite. This opens up the door to multiple dimensions existing solely due to quantum mechanics. _______________ Pwett Founder <Q> QUANT Hegemony

Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2008.12.08 20:49:00 - [11] Originally by: Pwett actually, nowadays an emerging theory is that the universe is flat, and therefor has the capacity to be infinite. This opens up the door to multiple dimensions existing solely due to quantum mechanics. Interresting, I may look into this. However no matter what direction you look into space, you'll see other galaxies...So I'm not exactly sure how this theory of a flat universe is played out...Will look into it out of curiosity. :D Voluntold, New Webcomic
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.12.08 20:54:00 - [12] It involves lasers and triangles - the interpretation is either the universe is flat - OR it has a curve that is so slight we don't have the ability to measure it. However, if it is curved, it has to have a finite size because eventually it will fold in upon itself. _______________ Pwett Founder <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.12.08 21:09:00 - [13] In my opinion: 1. Mankind will likely be either extinct by the time this has become an issue have come along technologically to the point to either create a "bubble" to encase their civilization to survive in, find a way to stop it or move onto another dimension. 2. Ill be long dead and not giving a damn. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Arianhod	Posted - 2008.12.08 21:14:00 - [14] Edited by: Arianhod on 08/12/2008 21:17:03 Originally by: Jacob Mei In my opinion: 2. Ill be long dead and not giving a damn. Maybe not, in theory if we get nanotechnology working in the next few decades we may be able to stop the decay of the brain and with stem cell regenerate/regrow body parts. I hope we get to this within the next few decades.... Originally by: Karrade Krise looks at OP looks at above post I wish I could think as simply as that... It's not simple, I just figure that's what it boils down to given what we understand about physics. We can see the past from echoes of the big bang by looking downstream with our vantage point. Given the expansion of the universe at c we wouldn't be able to see an incoming universe until it impacted. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. Haruhiists - Supporting Linkification since 2008
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2008.12.08 21:31:00 - [15] Originally by: Arianhod Edited by: Arianhod on 08/12/2008 21:17:03 Originally by: Jacob Mei In my opinion: 2. Ill be long dead and not giving a damn. Maybe not, in theory if we get nanotechnology working in the next few decades we may be able to stop the decay of the brain and with stem cell regenerate/regrow body parts. I hope we get to this within the next few decades.... Originally by: Karrade Krise looks at OP looks at above post I wish I could think as simply as that... It's not simple, I just figure that's what it boils down to given what we understand about physics. We can see the past from echoes of the big bang by looking downstream with our vantage point. Given the expansion of the universe at c we wouldn't be able to see an incoming universe until it impacted. I was kinda comparing how I wrote all that, and then it was simplfied with just a few sentences. But yea I totally agree with you, I'm now curious and thinking...moon orbits earth, earth orbits sun, sun orbits galaxy, galaxies...fly away from big bang? Perhaps the universe isn't really expanding, but all the galaxies are orbiting the center of the universe, so what would be at the center of the universe? A super duper massive blackhole larger than anything we could imagine? Is the universe orbiting something else with billions of other universes? Is that thing orbiting something else???? POP! My head just exploded! Voluntold, New Webcomic
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.12.08 21:45:00 - [16] Originally by: Arianhod Edited by: Arianhod on 08/12/2008 21:17:03 Originally by: Jacob Mei In my opinion: 2. Ill be long dead and not giving a damn. Maybe not, in theory if we get nanotechnology working in the next few decades we may be able to stop the decay of the brain and with stem cell regenerate/regrow body parts. I hope we get to this within the next few decades.... Being able to extends a life is not immortality. I seriously doubt that nano machines could keep the human brain running indefinitely and for that brain to be lucid, eventually something had to give be it the body or mind. All of it moot though so long as humanity has the single point failure known as earth as its only planet. Asteroid or Nova sun comes along and poof. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Arianhod	Posted - 2008.12.08 21:51:00 - [17] Never said it was immortality, it's just an indefinite lifespan. Could live to see the end of science (in theory). Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. Haruhiists - Supporting Linkification since 2008
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.12.08 21:57:00 - [18] Originally by: Arianhod Never said it was immortality, it's just an indefinite lifespan. Could live to see the end of science (in theory). Immortality: able to have eternal life or existance. Indefinite: Not fixed or limited in length, size, duration or quality. Same thing diffrent word. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
ReaperOfSly Gallente Zetsubou Corp	Posted - 2008.12.08 22:02:00 - [19] But don't you know? You're already immortal. Linkage ____________________
Calvin Firenze Minmatar Malum Crusis IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.12.08 22:06:00 - [20] Watch this show It's kinda dumbed down so the average person can understand what they're talking about, so it really only scratches the surface of any theory. They also use pretty cgi bits and flashy lights to get their point across. It's more of a thought catalyst show than an educational show for me. The episode that discussed light speed also went into theories about how light speed might be attained by human spacecraft. They even talked about futuristic warp drives that created a bubble to warp space time and transcend the speed of light. My first thought was "I wonder if these guys play eve...?" It also went further to point out that the farthest they've been able to see is 13 billion light years away, either due to the fact that light hasn't been able to reach us from that far away, or that is the end of the universe. Interestingly enough, the spectrum at the "end of the universe" is also almost completely uniform, unlike how it would be if the big bang theory were true. Bah, I have to get ready for work... I could fill up the entire post with my thoughts but I just don't have time.

Tibilo	Posted - 2008.12.08 22:06:00 - [21] Felt i had to post in a universe thread and I always think that we just dont have the language or words to properly talk about this stuff. Anyway, here's some thoughts. There are 3 possibilities for the universe. That it will continue expanding forever, expand to a point and just 'stop' or expand to a point and then collapse back in on itself. If it collapses back in on itself then surely that would then lead to another big bang and the whole process would repeat and this would happen or has happened an infinite amount of times. Then theres the idea of parallel or membrane universes and extra dimensions. Each of these could be one of the 3 types of universe. It could be possible for these to collide with each other across dimensions and these collisions form the big bangs creating other universes. you then have an infinite amount of different universes each one either forever expanding and collapsing, forever expanding or getting to a point of motionless and all occasionally colliding with each other creating new universes. Then there's spacetime. We apparently move through time at the speed of light and the faster we move in space the slower we move in time, if there is an infinite amount of spacetime how can you move from one defined point to another.Possibly anything within an infinite universe is also either infinite or infinitely nothing/doesnt exist. Also as you have many different 'kinds' of infinity and even 'new' infinities forming. If you have an infinite universe then surely it contains or is made up of an infinite amount of spacetime and then our perception of everything having a beginning and an end is just the way our consciousness works and that in fact every possible event already exists and neither past nor future can be created but can only be discovered. Trying to imagine all of this becomes very tricky as we tend to just think of a really big number instead of an actual infinity The great thing about all of this is really it comes down to which idea you like most, or belief instead of actual fact Anyway enough ramblings
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2008.12.08 22:10:00 - [22] Originally by: Tibilo Felt i had to post in a universe thread and I always think that we just dont have the language or words to properly talk about this stuff. Anyway, here's some thoughts. There are 3 possibilities for the universe. That it will continue expanding forever, expand to a point and just 'stop' or expand to a point and then collapse back in on itself. If it collapses back in on itself then surely that would then lead to another big bang and the whole process would repeat and this would happen or has happened an infinite amount of times. Then theres the idea of parallel or membrane universes and extra dimensions. Each of these could be one of the 3 types of universe. It could be possible for these to collide with each other across dimensions and these collisions form the big bangs creating other universes. you then have an infinite amount of different universes each one either forever expanding and collapsing, forever expanding or getting to a point of motionless and all occasionally colliding with each other creating new universes. Then there's spacetime. We apparently move through time at the speed of light and the faster we move in space the slower we move in time, if there is an infinite amount of spacetime how can you move from one defined point to another.Possibly anything within an infinite universe is also either infinite or infinitely nothing/doesnt exist. Also as you have many different 'kinds' of infinity and even 'new' infinities forming. If you have an infinite universe then surely it contains or is made up of an infinite amount of spacetime and then our perception of everything having a beginning and an end is just the way our consciousness works and that in fact every possible event already exists and neither past nor future can be created but can only be discovered. Trying to imagine all of this becomes very tricky as we tend to just think of a really big number instead of an actual infinity The great thing about all of this is really it comes down to which idea you like most, or belief instead of actual fact Anyway enough ramblings But I like your ramblings :( Voluntold, New Webcomic
Calvin Firenze Minmatar Malum Crusis IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.12.08 22:25:00 - [23] I get ready for work quick huh? Anyways, that episode on light speed is on tomorrow night at 11:00pm CST if you have the history channel and feel like watching it.
F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Celestial Industrial Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.09 06:26:00 - [24] One theory is that the universe, whether it is infinite or not, will continue to expand "forever". Not that gravity plays some part in this, so things like the Local Group, the Milky Way, Andromeda, and a few others, will be held together "forever", though some/most will eventually merge. The rest of the universe beyond the Local Group will continue to expand and be lost to us as they move beyond the range of any light (they'll be moving apart at relatively faster than the speed of light). "Forever," however, isn't as long as we think. In 10^(1+72 zeroes) years, everything of consequence will cease to exist. All Protons will have decayed, all black holes will have evaporated/dissolved, and the cosmic background radiation will have reached/approached asymptotically Absolute Zero. At that point the universe will be completely dead. Nothing will be able to exist there, not even photons, since there will be nothing to give them energy. Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said Originally by: Chribba Go F'nog! You're a hero! Not a Zero! /me bows
Taua Roqa Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.12.09 07:24:00 - [25] the universe is that of creation which we can see, there is probably so, so much more 'out there', in ways and forms we simply can't dream of nor comprehend, yet still grasp at with our gods. It is just a tiny fluctuation, a fluke of infinite probability.
baltec1 R.U.S.T. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.12.09 11:39:00 - [26] Edited by: baltec1 on 09/12/2008 11:39:30 I think that the universe is endless and we are only limited by how far we can see. But I also think that Michael Moor made some good points in some of his films... Take that as you will.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.12.09 12:15:00 - [27] How it's going to end is easy. Tell me how it began. - DesuSigs
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.12.09 12:22:00 - [28] I'd say there are two options. Either it expands forever until the density of material approaches 0. (Assuming there is infinite emptiness to expand into, see brief history of time by S. Hawking), or at some point it collapses again into a singularity which subsequently can cause a new big bang and re-start the whole process. The second option has the most 'appeal' to me though it seems impossible. The first one makes our existence here and now even more precious but conforms with the anthropic principle. Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
RevJim Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.12.09 19:50:00 - [29] I tend to agree with the 'heat-death' theory myself. The Universe will expand and stars will eventually die, all nuclear reactions will cease all energy will be used up, even photons as a previous poster mentioned. My own theory is that once this state has been reached, the universe will be an infinite expanse of 'quantum foam' which is one of the possible starting points of the big-bang... Rev
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.12.09 22:18:00 - [30] Edited by: Janu Hull on 09/12/2008 22:19:55 Originally by: baltec1 Edited by: baltec1 on 09/12/2008 11:39:30 I think that the universe is endless and we are only limited by how far we can see. But I also think that Michael Moor made some good points in some of his films... Take that as you will. Actually, the estimated "size" of the universe is about 76 billion light years across, because of speed of light delays, we're limited to about a 13.7 billion year "event horizon" of observability. As for the impending galaxy collision, in local terms, where matter is clumped into stars and whatnot, space and time won't "expand" and tear everything apart because gravity of mass will hold it together. The increasing expansion of the universe is occurring in the supervoids between galaxy clusters where there's no mass to create gravity to counter Dark Energy. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.

Donatien de'Sade Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.12.09 22:36:00 - [31] There is a theory which states that if anybody ever discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened Someone had to quote it.. In the beginning the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.12.10 06:24:00 - [32] Originally by: Donatien de'Sade There is a theory which states that if anybody ever discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened Someone had to quote it.. <3 bob ad Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
Arianhod	Posted - 2008.12.10 19:36:00 - [33] Just watched a Horizon episode seen here. It's got me wondering upon the dark energy concept. Using E=mc^2 a significant amount of the needed mass to keep the universe together would be taken account of by the fact that the universe is accelerating. But here's what I want to ask to anyone who can answer. The previous assumption was that due to the gravity of all Galaxies acting on each other, the Universe should be slowing down. Given I have been taught the Universe expands at close to c, this indicates that we are moving relativistically in comparison to the rest of the universe. When you jump out a plane, fall then open the parachute, it gives the illusion that you are accelerating due to the rapid deceleration. Given we are moving relativistically, could our deceleration from the gravity of the sum of the Universe be reducing the component making our perception of time speed up from what we had before? That from the origin of the universe we are slowing down but because we are so close to c, it gives the illusion of the rest of the universe speeding up? Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. Haruhiists - Supporting Linkification since 2008
ReaperOfSly Gallente Zetsubou Corp	Posted - 2008.12.10 23:06:00 - [34] Originally by: Arianhod Just watched a Horizon episode seen here. It's got me wondering upon the dark energy concept. Using E=mc^2 a significant amount of the needed mass to keep the universe together would be taken account of by the fact that the universe is accelerating. But here's what I want to ask to anyone who can answer. The previous assumption was that due to the gravity of all Galaxies acting on each other, the Universe should be slowing down. Given I have been taught the Universe expands at close to c, this indicates that we are moving relativistically in comparison to the rest of the universe. When you jump out a plane, fall then open the parachute, it gives the illusion that you are accelerating due to the rapid deceleration. Given we are moving relativistically, could our deceleration from the gravity of the sum of the Universe be reducing the component making our perception of time speed up from what we had before? That from the origin of the universe we are slowing down but because we are so close to c, it gives the illusion of the rest of the universe speeding up? Not really - the accelerating expansion is observed in every direction, so he Earth would have to be shrinking or something to produce that illusion. And it isn't. Remember that if you're decelerating in one direction, you're accelerating in the opposite direction. Basically, nobody knows why the universe appears to be accelerating outwards. "Dark Energy" is basically scientist-speak for "we don't know". ____________________
Taua Roqa Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.12.11 04:12:00 - [35] the funny thing is, we don't even know what 96% of the universe is made from
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.12.11 07:17:00 - [36] Originally by: ReaperOfSly Basically, nobody knows why the universe appears to be accelerating outwards. "Dark Energy" is basically scientist-speak for "we don't know". A hundred years ago it was called 'aether' Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
ReaperOfSly Gallente Zetsubou Corp	Posted - 2008.12.11 10:43:00 - [37] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: ReaperOfSly Basically, nobody knows why the universe appears to be accelerating outwards. "Dark Energy" is basically scientist-speak for "we don't know". A hundred years ago it was called 'aether' Aether was a very specific concept though. It was the medium through which light travelled. Light is a wave, so it must be a wave IN something, right? It was the Michelson-Morley experiment that inadvertently proved that it didn't exist. ____________________
Sweety Peachbottom Minmatar We Hate Scotty	Posted - 2008.12.11 14:54:00 - [38] Originally by: kor anon Originally by: Karrade Krise Originally by: kor anon i think it will expand for eternity until all stars fade away into nothingness. not an exciting way to go tbh Just realized that was what I was going to say at the end of that wall-o-text...Or something similar anyways. That's pretty much my thesis. I'm pretty horrible at write-ups like this. no worries i have trouble with single sentences at times Yeah, me too lol. Sometimes my sentences don't even
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2008.12.11 16:17:00 - [39] Originally by: Sweety Peachbottom Originally by: kor anon no worries i have trouble with single sentences at times Yeah, me too lol. Sometimes my sentences don't even You must tell me! Don't even what? I NEED TO KNOW! It's like a cliffhangar episode of your favorite tv series that suddenly gets cancelled! Voluntold, New Webcomic
ReaperOfSly Gallente Zetsubou Corp	Posted - 2008.12.11 16:37:00 - [40] Originally by: Karrade Krise Originally by: Sweety Peachbottom Originally by: kor anon no worries i have trouble with single sentences at times Yeah, me too lol. Sometimes my sentences don't even You must tell me! Don't even what? I NEED TO KNOW! It's like a cliffhangar episode of your favorite tv series that suddenly gets cancelled! I know what it is. It's really quite fascinating. Basically, she said ____________________

Liberator 1 Gallente Remnants of the Flame	Posted - 2008.12.12 11:35:00 - [41] Edited by: Liberator 1 on 12/12/2008 11:37:11 I think you have to look at the expansion/big bang theory in the light of the fact that we live on a tiny wee speck of a planet, our view of the universe is extremely limited and narrow. We haven't even got off the planet properly yet. I suspect making sweeping statements about how This Is How The Universe Began is a little premature. Given that we are talking about a hypothetical event an unimaginably long time ago of which we have absolutely no direct data for, it is possible that our current model may have some flaws. Or be entirely wrong. Take quasars for example. How can something be receding from us at that speed? (see redshift), and if the redshift gives you the distance how can it be outputting such VAST quantities of energy? I put it to you that the model might be wrong and that the models answer about quasars is spurious because it might be wrong. ------------------------------------------- ôIf you are in a spaceship that is traveling at the speed of light, and you turn on the headlights, does anything happen?ö -------------------------


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