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Fortiter
Kurtz's Kommandos
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Posted - 2008.12.09 02:00:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Fortiter on 09/12/2008 02:03:47
Before the web nerf, officer webs like the Mizuro's Statis Webifier had a 25km web range. It also had a 1,500 powergrid usage. After the nerf, it has a 17km range and has the 1,900 powergrid usage slapped onto it.
Compare the Mizuro's modified web to a Domination web and you will see why its broken.
Domination web
Range - 15 km
Meta Level - 9
Powergrid Usage - 1 MW
Mizuro's web
Range - 17 km
Meta Level 11
Powergrid Usage - 1,900 MW
The next officer webs are Hakim's (18km-2,100mw/error should be 2,000mw), Gotan's (19km-1,800mw/error should be 2,1000mw), Tobias' (20km-2,200mw).
So why the high power grid usage? The highest range has gone from 40km to 20km so limiting the shiptypes that these webs are used on is really no longer needed, if it ever was..
As for the person that said it was needed because of a rapier pilot webbing from 240km out, by all means let them. Falcons can jam from that far and if some guy wants to put on a (used to be) 6billion web and go into combat, then by all means let him.
Can we get a comment from a dev on this?
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.12.09 05:47:00 -
[2]
Yes.
The nerf to officer webs in Quantum Rise is just bizarre. If someone wants to throw down a billion ISK for a webifier they should be able to use against targets 30km away.
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Huan CK
Gallente
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
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Posted - 2008.12.09 09:51:00 -
[3]
Agree. Officer webs are totally messed up now.
My videos:
Watch on youtube. |
Fortiter
Kurtz's Kommandos
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Posted - 2008.12.09 23:24:00 -
[4]
bump
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Mikalya
Amarr
Hell's Rejects
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Posted - 2008.12.10 02:17:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Yes.
The nerf to officer webs in Quantum Rise is just bizarre. If someone wants to throw down a billion ISK for a webifier they should be able to use against targets 30km away.
Just because you paid that much for them doesn't mean that they are, or ever have been, worth that much 
But agreed, stats don't fit the rarity/ benefits don't match the drawbacks (which is what "balance" is all about, not price). Decrease the drawbacks or increase the number available to correct perceived value.
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Fortiter
Kurtz's Kommandos
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Posted - 2008.12.10 15:24:00 -
[6]
bump
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Fortiter
Kurtz's Kommandos
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Posted - 2008.12.11 15:02:00 -
[7]
bump, needs dev response
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Fortiter
Kurtz's Kommandos
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Posted - 2008.12.12 06:37:00 -
[8]
bump
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2008.12.12 08:12:00 -
[9]
This is CCP showing their disdain and lack of care for all officer/faction equipment.
Faction ships need a major boost too, it's pathetic that a T2 fitted ship can rival an 8b fitted ship.
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Fortiter
Kurtz's Kommandos
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Posted - 2008.12.13 03:25:00 -
[10]
bump, needs dev response
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Infinion
Caldari
Retribution Enterprises
Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2008.12.13 03:40:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Infinion on 13/12/2008 03:43:07
agreed, the changes completely destroy the value of officer webs.
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Fortiter
Kurtz's Kommandos
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Posted - 2008.12.14 03:04:00 -
[12]
bump, needs dev response
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Random Womble
Minmatar
Master Miners
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Posted - 2008.12.14 04:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Fortiter
Edited by: Fortiter on 09/12/2008 02:03:47
Before the web nerf, officer webs like the Mizuro's Statis Webifier had a 25km web range. It also had a 1,500 powergrid usage. After the nerf, it has a 17km range and has the 1,900 powergrid usage slapped onto it.
Compare the Mizuro's modified web to a Domination web and you will see why its broken.
Domination web
Range - 15 km
Meta Level - 9
Powergrid Usage - 1 MW
Mizuro's web
Range - 17 km
Meta Level 11
Powergrid Usage - 1,900 MW
The next officer webs are Hakim's (18km-2,100mw/error should be 2,000mw), Gotan's (19km-1,800mw/error should be 2,1000mw), Tobias' (20km-2,200mw).
So why the high power grid usage? The highest range has gone from 40km to 20km so limiting the shiptypes that these webs are used on is really no longer needed, if it ever was..
As for the person that said it was needed because of a rapier pilot webbing from 240km out, by all means let them. Falcons can jam from that far and if some guy wants to put on a (used to be) 6billion web and go into combat, then by all means let him.
Can we get a comment from a dev on this?
Slightly off topic but just so you know post patch sansha is better than domination web anyway CPP destroyed the way all faction/officer webs were sorted in effectiveness.
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Fortiter
Kurtz's Kommandos
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Posted - 2008.12.16 23:53:00 -
[14]
bump, needs dev response
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Fortiter
Kurtz's Kommandos
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Posted - 2008.12.18 01:12:00 -
[15]
bump, needs dev response
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Mickey Simon
Noir.
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Posted - 2008.12.18 08:03:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Yes.
The nerf to officer webs in Quantum Rise is just bizarre. If someone wants to throw down a billion ISK for a webifier they should be able to use against targets 30km away.
This.
Meanwhile, on the other side of town . . . |
Esercitare
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Posted - 2008.12.18 13:10:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Yes.
The nerf to officer webs in Quantum Rise is just bizarre. If someone wants to throw down a billion ISK for a webifier they should be able to use against targets 30km away.
agreed
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Jonatan Sycritix
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Posted - 2008.12.18 14:38:00 -
[18]
...and nerf NPC web.
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Fortiter
Kurtz's Kommandos
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Posted - 2008.12.19 14:18:00 -
[19]
bump, needs dev response
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Fortiter
Kurtz's Kommandos
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Posted - 2008.12.20 16:13:00 -
[20]
bump, needs dev response
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Fortiter
Kurtz's Kommandos
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Posted - 2008.12.23 23:43:00 -
[21]
bump, needs dev response
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Fortiter
Kurtz's Kommandos
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Posted - 2008.12.27 02:21:00 -
[22]
bump, needs dev response
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Fortiter
Kurtz's Kommandos
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Posted - 2008.12.29 01:17:00 -
[23]
bump, needs dev response
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Osric Wuscfrea
Gallente
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.12.29 02:21:00 -
[24]
Would appear to need some buffing...
--
Rgds
Mike
Dead-Fish, Deep Sea Daddies...
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Haargoth Civire
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Posted - 2008.12.29 06:27:00 -
[25]
bump
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nemmes
Mithril Dawn
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Posted - 2008.12.29 08:44:00 -
[26]
Edited by: nemmes on 29/12/2008 08:44:36
In my view, it would appear that the officer webs have been designed (at least in CCP's view) to be used on capitals and BS's. With limited experience in the use of capitals and/or officer mods, i would presume these two would be much more common than say, having one on a frigate. hence the PG issues
"Take me up in the arms of fate, with the strength of conviction and the hope of dreams" |
Fortiter
Kurtz's Kommandos
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Posted - 2008.12.29 20:12:00 -
[27]
Thank you all for the friendly bumps and input on the webs.
bump, needs dev response
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
AccesiViale
Gallente
Vox de Lucis
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Posted - 2008.12.29 21:13:00 -
[28]
Originally by: nemmes
Edited by: nemmes on 29/12/2008 08:44:36
In my view, it would appear that the officer webs have been designed (at least in CCP's view) to be used on capitals and BS's. With limited experience in the use of capitals and/or officer mods, i would presume these two would be much more common than say, having one on a frigate. hence the PG issues
if thats the case, and that would be fine if ccp would actually state so then they are still broken because with that kind of pg use, then you should be able to web at 50-80km
The sky was blue but there was no god. |
Vitrael
Reaper Industries
Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2008.12.29 22:24:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Vitrael on 29/12/2008 22:27:15
It's unnecessary to continually bump a topic if you have no information to add.
That said, officer webs are totally borked by QR balance, but that's just part of the problem. All webifier balance is broken at the moment. The nerf to effectiveness across the board was extreme- 60% is far too low. Even accounting for the fact that the stacking nerf has been removed, consider:
Pre QR webifier effectiveness:
0 webs - 100% velocity
1 web - 10% velocity
2 webs - 2.16% velocity
Post QR webifier effectiveness:
0 webs - 100% velocity
1 web - 40% velocity
2 webs - 16% velocity
3 webs - 6.4% velocity
4 webs - 2.56% velocity
As such, just about any cruiser with a microwarpdrive can escape many situations by running back to a gate. A cruiser capable of max velocity of 2km/s (pretty average now) can burn back to a gate with 2 webs on it in 34 seconds, accounting for the ship being webbed before it ever begins to accelerate. In practice, even with fast locking tacklers the time will be less than 10 seconds due to lock delay and inertia slowing the deceleration process. Combined with the relatively fast to-warp time of ships with the current mass/agility settings, it is now more difficult than ever to kill cruisers (and all ships, even battleships) that flee at gates.
In Nozh's own words, the problem with nanoships was their ability to break engagement at all times, negating the need to dedicate to a fight (same problem as WCS before nerf). However in all their heavy-handed and poorly tested balancing, they actually made combat even easier to escape for all ships with the webifier nerf.
Overall the number of webs required to slow anything is, broadly speaking, doubled. Very few ships have the mid slots to dedicate multiple webifiers, and as such tackling is very much becoming a multiple-ship process now. A rapier with 2 webs can no longer keep a battleship from reapproaching a gate in a reasonable time. Instead, it will take three webs or a warp scrambling buddy. Those of us who don't travel in packs of 10 or more at all hours of the day are having more and more trouble tackling anything at gates.
I find it pretty ridiculous that the Marauders got a webifier effectiveness boost after the webifying balance, yet the Hound, Rapier, Huginn, and Blood Raider ships have been totally ignored.
Please boost webs.
[and cruiser velocity... meanies.]
-----
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Fortiter
Kurtz's Kommandos
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Posted - 2008.12.30 02:38:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Vitrael
Edited by: Vitrael on 29/12/2008 22:28:18
It's unnecessary to continually bump a topic if you have no information to add.
While I agree with almost everything else that you stated, this I do not. This section of the forum is our only option to bring attention to the Dev's, problems or ideas that we believe need changed.
Keeping this post up to the top is the best chance of getting it changed or at least getting some sort of response from a Dev on the issue and their plans, if any, to address the problem.
"bump, needs dev response"
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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