| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
   |
Posted - 2008.12.09 04:00:00 -
[1]
I think that CCP is Satan. That's the only explanation. Before QR was introduced, and everyone was screaming about nanos and asking for them to be nerfed, CCP kept reassuring us that 'guerilla warfare' would still be alive and well after the speed changes.
"You'll still be able to do hit and run tactics" CCP says. I guess that to CCP "hit and run" means "ships you can't lock before they warp off, ships running back to gates unless you have 6+ people in your gang to tackle them into oblivion and gates the size of small planets to give anyone jumping in a get out of jail free card."
I really think that these changes are CCP's attempt to ensure that guerilla warfare remains viable post QR, but I find it horribly ironic that it has affected everything in the game PVP-wise *except* guerilla tactics and small gang warfare (in a positive fashion).
The increased agility of all ships wasn't necessary. All that was needed was for blaster ships to be buffed/tweaked a little, and everything would have been fine. Now that every single ship in the game (shuttles, frigs, industrials, mining ships) has had their agility buffed they're almost impossible to catch with like sized ships, even with sensor boosters, and particularly after you factor in the lag/locking issues that have cropped up.
While I think that regional gates at 0.0 entrances/choke points are a good thing, they have had a very negative impact on empire combat. You can't just 'bubble the gate' when you're fighting empire wars and you're chasing someone through a regional gate. It is literally impossible to stop them from fleeing. Even with a Lachesis, Recon V and a 30km domination warp disruptor (60km effective range before gang bonuses). I'm not even going to bring up the difficulties of suicide ganking in empire now after the agility/gate changes.
I have yet to hear from a single person who is a PVP focused player that they like the agility buff and other changes and that it has been good for PVP overall. Big blobs still slaughter small numbers, guerilla warfare is dead, small gangs are forced to increase their numbers to ensure that they can tackle solo targets well enough to complete the kill.
I'm not 'whining'. I've adapted. I'll still continue to succeed in Eve just as I always have. But that doesn't make what the game design has become any more palatable. I really enjoyed fighting solo and in small groups. Without Falcon backup. Now that era of Eve is pretty much over and it's a disappointment to me and quite a few others that have expressed the same thing.
Come on CCP, re-examine your game design as to how it affects the solo/small gang players and work from there, not the other way around.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
|
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Ursa Stellar Initiative
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 04:02:00 -
[2]
I prefer living in interesting times.
|
Haakelen
Gallente
Cassandra's Light
Caeruleum Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 04:22:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Come on CCP, re-examine your game design as to how it affects the solo/small gang players and work from there, not the other way around.
It sucks, they don't care, and it is time to move on. Hail to the blob.
|
jongalt
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 04:22:00 -
[4]
bellum's posts are like emoposts of a girl who never got asked to the prom.
-jg.
|
5pinDizzy
Amarr
Umpteenth Podding
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 04:34:00 -
[5]
All the bad things you could complain about, and you bring up web nerfs and huge gates, which are great, and agility buffs, which is so-so.
You make it sound like every single gate in the game is 100 times bigger.
Move back one jump further into 0.0 for your camp, there only gate they can go through most of the time. boo hoo.
...but that's the thing isn't it? Wasn't enough to have a bubble and a gang and kill everything in sight except cov ops, you wanted to be able to pull back to the gate and jump back into lowsec when something bigger came along, either for sentrygun protection or for a station to retreat to.
|
Zurrar
Gallente
Universal Exports
FOUNDATI0N
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 04:35:00 -
[6]
Originally by: jongalt
bellum's posts are like emoposts of a girl who never got asked to the prom.
-jg.
i stayed clear of prom, no reason to join a socialogistic time honored tradition that entails getting drunk afterwards and being worried about killing your friends your driving home because of all the horror stories the schools show you...
or i was just too drunk to remember.
|
Faife
Noctiscion
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 04:44:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Zurrar
i stayed clear of prom, no reason to join a socialogistic time honored tradition that entails getting drunk afterwards and being worried about killing your friends your driving home because of all the horror stories the schools show you...
or i was just too drunk to remember.
i dropped acid at prom. what is this thread about?
--
i am a humble and inefficient ammo to dps converter |
Terianna Eri
Amarr
Scrutari
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 04:52:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Faife
i dropped acid at prom. what is this thread about?
I went to a nerdy anime convention with my gf and all of my friends instead of going to prom o_O
It was cheaper, we still got to dress up, and we certainly did more socializing there than we would have at prom...
__________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 05:01:00 -
[9]
It's true. CCP has largely rendered solo PvP and small gang (without ECM) warfare pretty much dead. Which is why I no longer PvP, for the most part. I refuse to join the general blob- and grind-fest that is 0.0, and, frankly, I'm tired of my play-style getting nerfed every time I turn around because CCP wants to encourage "cooperation".
Screw cooperation. 9 times out of 10, anyone you help game will eventually stick a knife in your back and make off with most of your ISK, or exploit you to make more for themselves. Not that I mind that, of course, but nerfing solo-play into oblivion will not make me suddenly decide that I'm going to join some mega-alliance. If push eventually comes to shove, I'll simply find another game.
|
Neesa Corrinne
Rogue Shadow Squad
Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 05:10:00 -
[10]
I don't give a rats arse if the OP is whining, I completely agree with him.
The constant power creep in EVE is turning the game into a capital blob fest and tossing geurilla warfare down the stairs like paraplegic in a wheelchair.
|
|
|
Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 05:15:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
I have yet to hear from a single person who is a PVP focused player that they like the agility buff and other changes and that it has been good for PVP overall.
I'll be the "PvP focused player" who likes the changes. I really do. At the very least, it changes the game up and its not so stale.
I hate fighting on gates (and stations too) more than anything, I could careless what can get past me on gates. Really, you rarely get that interesting fights on the gates. You collect kill mails gate camping and you get some loot. Its not that exciting.
Tackling was made harder, but its not rocket science. You've said you have adpated, go play the game and wreck havoc and spare us the nerdrage ffs.
***
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2
WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Avaricia
The Accursed
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 05:37:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Come on CCP, re-examine your game design as to how it affects the solo/small gang players and work from there, not the other way around.
didn't you get the memo? shooting other people by yourself isn't multiplayer enough.
it only counts as multiplayer when you blob it to hell. have fun splitting devalued t2 loot 12 ways.
griefmatic 2
reign of terror
griefmatic |
eXtas
Atomic Battle Penguins
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 06:08:00 -
[13]
I agree with the op. its damn impossible to catch anything at gates without a big gang... I tryed some solo roaming today and it was just epic fail after fail :(
a raven warped of before my inty got into scram range :(
a cruiser warped of before I got a lock with 1500 scan res :(
the list goes on... and if you for some reason manage to point something... it will go back to gate..
/me returns to stationhumping 
--------
|
Khandara Seraphim
StarHunt
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 06:19:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
I think that CCP is Satan. That's the only explanation. Before QR was introduced, and everyone was screaming about nanos and asking for them to be nerfed, CCP kept reassuring us that 'guerilla warfare' would still be alive and well after the speed changes.
"You'll still be able to do hit and run tactics" CCP says. I guess that to CCP "hit and run" means "ships you can't lock before they warp off, ships running back to gates unless you have 6+ people in your gang to tackle them into oblivion and gates the size of small planets to give anyone jumping in a get out of jail free card."
I really think that these changes are CCP's attempt to ensure that guerilla warfare remains viable post QR, but I find it horribly ironic that it has affected everything in the game PVP-wise *except* guerilla tactics and small gang warfare (in a positive fashion).
The increased agility of all ships wasn't necessary. All that was needed was for blaster ships to be buffed/tweaked a little, and everything would have been fine. Now that every single ship in the game (shuttles, frigs, industrials, mining ships) has had their agility buffed they're almost impossible to catch with like sized ships, even with sensor boosters, and particularly after you factor in the lag/locking issues that have cropped up.
While I think that regional gates at 0.0 entrances/choke points are a good thing, they have had a very negative impact on empire combat. You can't just 'bubble the gate' when you're fighting empire wars and you're chasing someone through a regional gate. It is literally impossible to stop them from fleeing. Even with a Lachesis, Recon V and a 30km domination warp disruptor (60km effective range before gang bonuses). I'm not even going to bring up the difficulties of suicide ganking in empire now after the agility/gate changes.
I have yet to hear from a single person who is a PVP focused player that they like the agility buff and other changes and that it has been good for PVP overall. Big blobs still slaughter small numbers, guerilla warfare is dead, small gangs are forced to increase their numbers to ensure that they can tackle solo targets well enough to complete the kill.
I'm not 'whining'. I've adapted. I'll still continue to succeed in Eve just as I always have. But that doesn't make what the game design has become any more palatable. I really enjoyed fighting solo and in small groups. Without Falcon backup. Now that era of Eve is pretty much over and it's a disappointment to me and quite a few others that have expressed the same thing.
Come on CCP, re-examine your game design as to how it affects the solo/small gang players and work from there, not the other way around.
I think I've read this thread at least three or four different times now only they had different titles and slightly different wordings.
|
Arcon Telf
Gallente
Death of Virtue
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 06:35:00 -
[15]
I agree with Bellum (let's be honest, I usually do). But don't take my word for it...he's only one of the most successful and experienced PVP pilots in the game. CCP, I hope you're reading this thread. 
|
Norwood Franskly
Minmatar
Fleet of the Damned
Dark Trinity Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 06:35:00 -
[16]
You can still catch plenty of fast stuff at gates, I could link half a dozen ceptor mails if you'd like.
neuts plus multiple webs are needed now as people tend to run back to the gate when they hit a camp. The big problem is when some buffer tanked BS jumps in and manages to slowboat back to the gate, you need to make sure not everyone agresses so someone can jump out and tackle him over the other side of the gate.
|
Gut Punch
Shade.
Penumbra Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 06:38:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Gut Punch on 09/12/2008 06:40:28
The OP is correct. The trend for the past two years has been the increase in the supercapital usage along with sov rules that favor he who has the biggest numbers. That was the whole reason that nano was so popular. We, those of us who try and avoid blob/supercap/pos warfare, were allowed to fight in smaller groups; to give hit and run pvp a place in EVE.
Now you have to bring overwhelming force to deal with just a small group because if the increased inability of pilots to do their jobs solo. More tackle is required to hold targets. More people are required to counter the massive buff to ECM (Falcons especially). Smaller ships don't survive unless they zerg (See AF swarms). What we get is an escilation on both sides that doesn't allow for the fun that pvp used to be because you need everyone you know in the fight to hope you can walk off the field with a victory.
Before if a person had human skill and a decent fitting he or she could do more on their own. But with the slowing down and overall stagnation of pvp, the random and uncoordinated actions of noobs can bring down anyone due to the effect of having so many numbers on the field and the field moving so slowly.
Those of us who were successful before are still successful; adaptation has occured. But the fun factor has diminished greatly.
|
rValdez5987
Amarr
32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 06:59:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Vikarion
It's true. CCP has largely rendered solo PvP and small gang (without ECM) warfare pretty much dead. Which is why I no longer PvP, for the most part. I refuse to join the general blob- and grind-fest that is 0.0, and, frankly, I'm tired of my play-style getting nerfed every time I turn around because CCP wants to encourage "cooperation".
Screw cooperation. 9 times out of 10, anyone you help game will eventually stick a knife in your back and make off with most of your ISK, or exploit you to make more for themselves. Not that I mind that, of course, but nerfing solo-play into oblivion will not make me suddenly decide that I'm going to join some mega-alliance. If push eventually comes to shove, I'll simply find another game.
I still solo in anything from a t1 frig to a bs, usually against gangs. I die 50% of the time, but I always kill more then I lose.
Then again, I did have to buy another account just so that I could have 3 accounts to use if a decent gang gets dropped on my head.... Guess that probably doesn't count as solo play anymore if your using 3 of your own chars at once.
|
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 07:32:00 -
[19]
Originally by: rValdez5987
Originally by: Vikarion
It's true. CCP has largely rendered solo PvP and small gang (without ECM) warfare pretty much dead. Which is why I no longer PvP, for the most part. I refuse to join the general blob- and grind-fest that is 0.0, and, frankly, I'm tired of my play-style getting nerfed every time I turn around because CCP wants to encourage "cooperation".
Screw cooperation. 9 times out of 10, anyone you help game will eventually stick a knife in your back and make off with most of your ISK, or exploit you to make more for themselves. Not that I mind that, of course, but nerfing solo-play into oblivion will not make me suddenly decide that I'm going to join some mega-alliance. If push eventually comes to shove, I'll simply find another game.
I still solo in anything from a t1 frig to a bs, usually against gangs. I die 50% of the time, but I always kill more then I lose.
Then again, I did have to buy another account just so that I could have 3 accounts to use if a decent gang gets dropped on my head.... Guess that probably doesn't count as solo play anymore if your using 3 of your own chars at once.
<note: this reply isn't directed at you personally rvaldez5987>
For me personally, 50% kill/death ratio is completely unacceptable. And *in my opinion*, flying with 3x accounts isn't flying solo, even if you're doing it all by yourself.
I'm a pirate. PVP is my *profession*. I kill to make money. My ships are extremely expensive, and it takes literally hundreds of kills for me to make the ISK to afford a single one of my ships.
I always kill more than I lose, but I'm talking ISK here, not numbers of ships. Trinity has been out for a little over a year. I really like the permanent in-game record of killmails. In that years time, I've lost less than two dozen total ships, and of those only 16-18 or so were legit losses (others were shuttles or whatever).
Latest KB stats show something like 70b in ISK destroyed by myself, and that's an extremely conservative estimate, given the killboard item/ship prices, and I haven't really earned all that much ISK for the amount of time I spend killing stuff, and the sheer volume of ships that I kill.
Anyway, I'd never have any ISK if I didn't have something like a 72:1 kill/death ratio. If it were 1:1 I'd have to run missions or something to be able to afford to PVP.
But as it sits now, it looks like I'll have to consider doing just that, as splitting loot 10+ ways nets me next to zero ISK. QR has been really bad for pirates of all sorts.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
|
Hesed
Amarr
Hamartia.
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 08:05:00 -
[20]
Small ship gate warfare in empire is dead.
Time to nerf local, and let the multitudes wander far and wide.
<3
- Good.
+ - Bad. |
|
|
ollobrains2
Gallente
New Eve Order Holdings
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 08:09:00 -
[21]
everyones now got their falcon alts ( which is due a nerf) so time to train amarr and minmatar
|
Jesum
Amarr
Crimson Pact
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 08:11:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Jesum on 09/12/2008 08:15:49
This has been argued since 2003. They're not going to make PvP a profitable career.
____________
[-..-] Jesum |
CrestoftheStars
Recreation Of The World
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 08:19:00 -
[23]
i strongly disagree.
___________________________________________
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded |
Tippia
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 08:31:00 -
[24]
While I can sympathise and even agree with the OP, I just want to counter-whine about the misuse of "guerilla warfare" in EVE. Guerilla warfare is not about being a small gang (or even worse, as it was often described in the nano days, about attacking a larger force with a smaller one) — it's about being nimble enough to attack your target and scatter before he can assemble his forces and come after you. You can do guerilla work and still be the large blob in the galaxy.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Ticondrius
Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 08:42:00 -
[25]
I really don't get what the OP is on about. In a Deimos, I got an AF kill, Thrasher kill, and 3 pods today. Oh, and no scram fitted, I was still fleet fit with a pair of webbers.
My corp is getting kills left and right in small 5-10 man gangs. We use bubbles, HICs, and bog standard tackling tactics.
Hell, the infamous "Adapt or Die" doesn't even apply here. We're STILL doing exactly what we did before, to great effect.
All I can say is: L2PvP. 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
PROPOSAL: Chaos Incarnate's Face
MMORPG: Many Men Online Role Playing Girls |
burek
Mercenary Forces
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 08:50:00 -
[26]
The OP is the truth. Pointing out facts is not whining.
Pretty much all the "pvpers" that don't mind these changes or aren't even affected, are the blobbers, the brainless zombies of eve. |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 08:55:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Tippia
While I can sympathise and even agree with the OP, I just want to counter-whine about the misuse of "guerilla warfare" in EVE. Guerilla warfare is not about being a small gang (or even worse, as it was often described in the nano days, about attacking a larger force with a smaller one) ù it's about being nimble enough to attack your target and scatter before he can assemble his forces and come after you. You can do guerilla work and still be the large blob in the galaxy.
Just to be clear: don't mistake my using 'guerilla warfare' in the same sentence as 'nano ships' etc. that I think that is what the definition of guerilla warfare is. I'm just saying that this is what CCP seems to think it is and how they're taking measures to perpetuate it, regardless of how misguided their attempts are.
It always amazes me that with all that talent and intelligence that CCP clearly has they seem to come up with some amazingly abstract changes to the game and take it in seemingly strange directions with zero explanation as to their thinking or developmental direction. It's like trying to predict the flight path of a house fly.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
|
Esmenet
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 09:04:00 -
[28]
Well a 50-100 man gang is considered a small gang now so i guess thats what they balance for.
Apparantly bigger blobs are more "epic".
|
Jalif
Scorpion's Sting
Blades of Serenity
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 09:17:00 -
[29]
I agree Bellum. Notting more to say. Lucky I still got a Vegabond but that isn't anymore as it used to be.
I geuss I have to recruit a bunch of falcon pilots for my cop
|
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 09:26:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ticondrius
I really don't get what the OP is on about. In a Deimos, I got an AF kill, Thrasher kill, and 3 pods today. Oh, and no scram fitted, I was still fleet fit with a pair of webbers.
My corp is getting kills left and right in small 5-10 man gangs. We use bubbles, HICs, and bog standard tackling tactics.
Hell, the infamous "Adapt or Die" doesn't even apply here. We're STILL doing exactly what we did before, to great effect.
All I can say is: L2PvP.
You simply don't understand the issues here because your combat environment isn't the same as others and (this is the key point here) you're too stupid to look beyond that.
Bubbles and HICs only work in 0.0. Killing an AF a Trasher and three pods in less than 24 hours means what exactly? I usually don't even bother with targets smaller than BCs because there's so little ISK to be made by killing them. I simply can't be asked to chase them down.
You tell me you're unaffected by the changes. I believe you 100%. Ten man gangs and 0.0 where you can use bubbles would probably be the exact combat environment where the changes would matter the least. I applaud you for your insight that the changes haven't had much of an impact on your play style.
And you managed to get some kills without a scram fit? This tells me one of two things: either five targets were so stupid as to let you kill them without trying to run, meaning that it took zero capability on your part to kill them, or you were in a gang with the capacity to keep them there (bubble, HIC) and it wasn't solo.
Either way, your experiences have little to zero relevance when someone is discussing PVP that is outside of 0.0. So please, L2PVP and stfu.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |